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  #51  
Old 11-26-2019, 08:54 PM
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Yeah, but I think Emerson is pretty down the middle, and they both came up with the same number.

One caveat: the potential sampling error is high because it's a subset of polled voters. I think +-12. So support could be as low as 22%, or as high as 46%. Given history I would think lower real numbers are more likely. But even 24% would be a tripling of his support since 2016, and a big problem for Democrats.
  #52  
Old 11-26-2019, 09:49 PM
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FYI - Tracking polls are not intended to be an absolute representative sample, they intend to find a group with divierse range of views/demo information and poll them over and over again, to show deltas and trends.

According to gallup, Trump's approval among black people is about 10%:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...h-black-voters

According to a poll by The Hill, 85% of black people surveyed said they would vote for any democrat over Trump:
https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/46...-democrat-over
  #53  
Old 01-11-2020, 04:30 PM
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Where is OMG, a Black Conservative when we need him?
Did everyone forget James Brown (whose song about "doing it for myself" was part of his self-reliance as opposed to begging for Gov't handouts) endorsing Nixon ( who was pushing a Black businesses program, while Dems just wanted more "charity/welfare' programs). Also, Blacks recently have pushed back against Dems taking them for granted, and not giving them a seat at the table decision wise.
  #54  
Old 01-11-2020, 04:34 PM
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It's like everyone forgot who he was running against.

A lot of people thought it was all an act and he would become more moderate in office.
also remember that despite Trumps sexual harassment, the majority of white women voted for him (and Hilary's whole campaign ads were about that rather than policy), And Hilary was detested by many voters for various reasons
  #55  
Old 01-11-2020, 06:00 PM
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also remember that despite Trumps sexual harassment, the majority of white women voted for him (and Hilary's whole campaign ads were about that rather than policy), And Hilary was detested by many voters for various reasons
She still won more votes but her supermajority wasn't enough. The US installs losers. What a system!
  #56  
Old 01-11-2020, 08:28 PM
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Also, Blacks recently have pushed back against Dems taking them for granted, and not giving them a seat at the table decision wise.
There was a commentator somewhere who pointed out that black voters command the least power of any racial bloc. They vote so overwhelmingly Democratic that Democrats take their votes for granted and Republicans don't even bother trying.
  #57  
Old 01-12-2020, 08:46 AM
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There was a commentator somewhere who pointed out that black voters command the least power of any racial bloc. They vote so overwhelmingly Democratic that Democrats take their votes for granted and Republicans don't even bother trying.
Aren't Democrats expected to work for Black voters, and, indeed, don't they?
  #58  
Old 01-12-2020, 04:18 PM
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even though many black people are liberal one area they differ is they don't support same sex marriage. When CA voted down SSM one of the main reasons was the yes vote did not get a high percentage of black voters.
  #59  
Old 01-12-2020, 04:59 PM
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Black Trump supporters seem to have taken him at his word about ending the school-to-prison pipeline. He hasn't, obviously, but he's occasionally given pardons which suggest he cares, and the Democrats and mainstream Republicans haven't done much about it either.
Even though Trump does not covey "Christian" conduct, I wonder how many Black evangelicals supported him over Hilary due to LGBT, abortion, etc
  #60  
Old 01-12-2020, 05:04 PM
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Aren't Democrats expected to work for Black voters, and, indeed, don't they?
they keep Blacks in state of dependence (welfare etc) and act smug for doing it
  #61  
Old 01-13-2020, 10:28 AM
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Even though Trump does not covey "Christian" conduct, I wonder how many Black evangelicals supported him over Hilary due to LGBT, abortion, etc
A large percentage, no doubt. Maybe even both of them.
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  #62  
Old 01-13-2020, 10:39 AM
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There are plenty of black people who are very religious especially here in the south. I don't know if they call themselves evangelicals, some probably do use that term.
  #63  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:04 AM
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I would be interested in reading a post from a person who is in a minority and voted for Trump.
I can't answer for myself, but I'll cite my dad. He's a first-generation immigrant from Taiwan, and despises mainland China.

He's essentially a single-issue voter, and that single issue is the U.S. relationship with Taiwan. So ever since Jimmy Carter de-recognized Taiwan in 1977 in favor of mainland China, he's never voted for a Democrat.

He did try out the old "Trump is a businessman and that's what we need" line, but he's smart enough to understand that a) government and business don't really have the same goals, and b) we lived in New Jersey for many years (I grew up there) and knew just what a crook Trump was, so that line of defense collapsed pretty quickly.

I don't know if he still plans to vote Republican in 2020.
  #64  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:18 PM
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Really? You watched the campaign and the debates and were still up in the air as to whether or not Trump had the intellectual and temperamental chops to manage the US's affairs?

I find that astounding.
Keep in mind that over 60 million people voted for Trump and he won.
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  #65  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:45 PM
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Why wouldn't minorities support Trump? In the past four years wages for low income workers have increased faster than they have in at least a decade. Black and Hispanic unemployment are at all-time lows. Trump is actively outreaching to them.

A better question is why minorities still vote for Democrats? Democrats used to be the party of blue collar workers and working people's unions. Now they are the party of elite college grads. Democratic policies like national minimum wage laws and open borders directly hurt minorities. Climate change policy tends to hurt the people in the lowest income brackets the most. Democratic initiatives like renewable energy and electric cars have no resonance with poor minority voters, They are more aligned with Republicans than Democrats on 'social justice' issues, especially around feminism and LGBT issues.

And as many blacks and hispanics ar pe coming to realize, their blind support for Democrats means the Democrats don't have to work for their vote, so their needs are ignored.

If there is a tipping point and minorities start shifting to the GOP because Democrats no longer align with their needs and beliefs, the Dems are screwed. This is the problem with intersectionality and trying to build a party out of a coalition of minorities and special interests: at some point the groups in the coalition start diverging in goals, and it gets increasingly hard to keep them together.

Last edited by Sam Stone; 01-13-2020 at 01:46 PM.
  #66  
Old 01-13-2020, 01:55 PM
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Why wouldn't minorities support Trump? In the past four years wages for low income workers have increased faster than they have in at least a decade. Black and Hispanic unemployment are at all-time lows. Trump is actively outreaching to them.

A better question is why minorities still vote for Democrats? Democrats used to be the party of blue collar workers and working people's unions. Now they are the party of elite college grads. Democratic policies like national minimum wage laws and open borders directly hurt minorities. Climate change policy tends to hurt the people in the lowest income brackets the most. Democratic initiatives like renewable energy and electric cars have no resonance with poor minority voters, They are more aligned with Republicans than Democrats on 'social justice' issues, especially around feminism and LGBT issues.

And as many blacks and hispanics ar pe coming to realize, their blind support for Democrats means the Democrats don't have to work for their vote, so their needs are ignored.

If there is a tipping point and minorities start shifting to the GOP because Democrats no longer align with their needs and beliefs, the Dems are screwed. This is the problem with intersectionality and trying to build a party out of a coalition of minorities and special interests: at some point the groups in the coalition start diverging in goals, and it gets increasingly hard to keep them together.
I agree that the Democrats have not been doing a good job of meeting the needs of minorities, but luckily for them, the Republicans have doubled-down on hateful rhetoric, direct appeals to white supremacists/white nationalists, and other rhetoric that is abhorrent to most minorities (and white Americans who really care about opposing bigotry and hatred). The GOP is actually making it easier for the Democrats to ignore the needs of minorities, because they are becoming increasingly disgusting from the POV of Americans who care about fighting racism and bigotry. I wish we had two parties that cared about the needs of minorities, and cared about fighting racism, but we barely have one.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 01-13-2020 at 01:55 PM.
  #67  
Old 01-13-2020, 02:04 PM
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Keep in mind that over 60 million people voted for Trump and he won.
Do you anticipate that number will rise, fall or remain the same for 2020?
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  #68  
Old 01-13-2020, 02:25 PM
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Look at all the democrats rushing to embrace the white girl from Sweden who's pushing for the environment while ignoring black suffering in our inner cities.

Do democrats REALLY thing black people should see that LGBT issues are the same as the issues facing blacks? For example - some white teenager who was born a boy but now wants to be a girl - well schools should accommodate him/her if not, its the same as when blacks were not allowed to attend white schools - right?

On that same issue, we have one democratic candidate, O-Rourke, for president who openly says any church that will not support gay marriage should lose its tax free status.

Democrats are the party who want to take away a persons rights to purchase a handgun so a person can protect their family.
  #69  
Old 01-13-2020, 02:38 PM
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Look at all the democrats rushing to embrace the white girl from Sweden who's pushing for the environment while ignoring black suffering in our inner cities.

Do democrats REALLY thing black people should see that LGBT issues are the same as the issues facing blacks? For example - some white teenager who was born a boy but now wants to be a girl - well schools should accommodate him/her if not, its the same as when blacks were not allowed to attend white schools - right?

On that same issue, we have one democratic candidate, O-Rourke, for president who openly says any church that will not support gay marriage should lose its tax free status.

Democrats are the party who want to take away a persons rights to purchase a handgun so a person can protect their family.
This sounds like a Trump campaign commercial, with about the same level of factual (in)accuracy. If you want to challenge any of the claims actually made by posters in this thread, feel free and you might get a response.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 01-13-2020 at 02:38 PM.
  #70  
Old 01-13-2020, 02:39 PM
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Look at all the democrats rushing to embrace the white girl from Sweden who's pushing for the environment while ignoring black suffering in our inner cities.

Do democrats REALLY thing black people should see that LGBT issues are the same as the issues facing blacks? For example - some white teenager who was born a boy but now wants to be a girl - well schools should accommodate him/her if not, its the same as when blacks were not allowed to attend white schools - right?

On that same issue, we have one democratic candidate, O-Rourke, for president who openly says any church that will not support gay marriage should lose its tax free status.

Democrats are the party who want to take away a persons rights to purchase a handgun so a person can protect their family.
This says so much more about you than about any democratic party position, real or imagined.
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  #71  
Old 01-13-2020, 04:07 PM
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Then this POTUS raised their taxes with arbitrary tariffs. Sucks to be fooled.
I'd like to interject that raising taxes (directly ) and raising taxes indirectly (tariffs)
are taken vastly different, can you understand why?
  #72  
Old 01-13-2020, 04:10 PM
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I've met some, and with them it's all about religion.
  #73  
Old 01-13-2020, 04:41 PM
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Why wouldn't minorities support Trump? In the past four years wages for low income workers have increased faster than they have in at least a decade. Black and Hispanic unemployment are at all-time lows.
As a minority that thinks, I realize that when a lot of the progress is based on credit, one just can not give Trump credit.

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Trump is actively outreaching to them.
That active part does require a change with his past reprehensible actions, so what about allowing minorities that served and defended America to remain in the armed forces or for legal residents to join the Army in the USA?

https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants...istment-policy
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Last week, a federal court in San Francisco issued a ruling that blocks a discriminatory Trump administration policy that has prevented hundreds of lawful permanent residents — immigrants who possess green cards — from serving in the U.S. military. U.S. District Judge Jon S. Tigar found that the Trump administration provided no rational justification for the policy, which bars lawful permanent residents from serving in the military until unspecified background investigations are completed. “If there was no evidence that LPRs posed a greater security risk, this policy change is by definition arbitrary and capricious,” Judge Tigar wrote.
So, no, that and many other examples, such as keeping refugee kids in cages, are very peculiar forms of reaching..

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A better question is why minorities still vote for Democrats? Democrats used to be the party of blue collar workers and working people's unions. Now they are the party of elite college grads. Democratic policies like national minimum wage laws and open borders directly hurt minorities.
That item is a bit ignorant, all the students from poor families getting jobs at the schools I work for, getting higher minimum wages by law in Arizona (12 dollars an hour this year) are not complaining. May I remind you what is the party that is more willing to support higher minimum wage laws?

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Climate change policy tends to hurt the people in the lowest income brackets the most.
Now that item is incredibly ignorant, particularly when the current policy is set by Trump and his gang..

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-poor-hardest/
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Climate change is disproportionately affecting the poor and minorities in the United States - a "climate gap" that will grow in coming decades unless policymakers intervene, according to a University of California study.

Everyone, the researchers say, is already starting to feel the effects of a warming planet, via heat waves, increased air pollution, drought, or more intense storms. But the impacts - on health, economics, and overall quality of life - are far more acute on society's disadvantaged, the researchers found.

"Climate change does not affect everyone equally in the United States," said Rachel Morello-Frosch, associate professor at the School of Public Health at the University of California, Berkeley and lead author of The Climate Gap. "People of color and the poor will be hurt the most - unless elected officials and other policymakers intervene."
Watching this unfold is akin to watching a movie where disparate and seemingly unrelated storylines converge to denouement that is "decidedly tragic," the researchers wrote.

For instance, the report finds that African Americans living in Los Angeles are almost twice as likely to die as other Los Angelenos during a heat wave. Segregated in the inner city, they're more susceptible to the "heat island" effect, where temperatures are magnified by concrete and asphalt. Yet they're less likely to have access to air conditioning or cars.

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Democratic initiatives like renewable energy and electric cars have no resonance with poor minority voters, They are more aligned with Republicans than Democrats on 'social justice' issues, especially around feminism and LGBT issues.
Right now the energy and car bits are pushed by the more wealthy that are showing that they do put their money where their mouth is, their efforts are useful in the sense that the progress shows what new technologies will be able to scale up better and what then a more responsible government in the future will be able to subsidize, applying that to the poor and minorities.

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And as many blacks and hispanics ar pe coming to realize, their blind support for Democrats means the Democrats don't have to work for their vote, so their needs are ignored.
This is like the second contradiction in a few lines. (here is a hint: making efforts in social justice is not “ignoring the needs of the poor and minorities”

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If there is a tipping point and minorities start shifting to the GOP because Democrats no longer align with their needs and beliefs, the Dems are screwed. This is the problem with intersectionality and trying to build a party out of a coalition of minorities and special interests: at some point the groups in the coalition start diverging in goals, and it gets increasingly hard to keep them together.
Sounds like what will happen once the orange cancerous growth is removed. We will deal with the slight divisions once that takes place.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 01-13-2020 at 04:44 PM.
  #74  
Old 01-14-2020, 04:06 AM
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This sounds like a Trump campaign commercial, with about the same level of factual (in)accuracy. If you want to challenge any of the claims actually made by posters in this thread, feel free and you might get a response.
Ok you would prefer "Because anyone who votes for Trump is an idiot"?

Or would you prefer open dialogue and discussion?

Which would you learn more from OR do you NOT want to learn?
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Old 01-14-2020, 04:16 AM
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I've met some, and with them it's all about religion.
I do more than just "meet some" I work with them directly and hear what they are saying. Yes, religion is a big thing and when a democratic presidential candidate promises to take away a churches tax exemption because they dont agree with all the LGBT issues, people will object. Dont people have a right to their own moral values?

And look at Hollywood and all the filthy and immoral crap coming from it. Who does Hollywood support the most? Democrats. Wait till the next DNC convention and it will be a parade of all the Hollywoods most perverted. Hillary had Beyonce at her rallies. Remember Weinstein? He was a big DNC supporter and gave the democrats lots of money.
  #76  
Old 01-14-2020, 05:03 AM
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I know several, and I’ve met some. They say it’s about the economy and also about fiscally running the country with better accountability — you know, Mexico will pay for the wall.
  #77  
Old 01-14-2020, 05:43 AM
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I do more than just "meet some" I work with them directly and hear what they are saying. Yes, religion is a big thing and when a democratic presidential candidate promises to take away a churches tax exemption because they dont agree with all the LGBT issues, people will object. Dont people have a right to their own moral values?

And look at Hollywood and all the filthy and immoral crap coming from it. Who does Hollywood support the most? Democrats. Wait till the next DNC convention and it will be a parade of all the Hollywoods most perverted. Hillary had Beyonce at her rallies. Remember Weinstein? He was a big DNC supporter and gave the democrats lots of money.
The Democrats have actually improved on this, unlike the Republicans, who've gotten worse. The Democrats now kick out their abusers and harassers. The Republicans elevate and celebrate their abusers and harassers -- currently celebrating the President, who has bragged about sexual assault and violations of women's consent on multiple occasions.
  #78  
Old 01-14-2020, 11:44 AM
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The Democrats have actually improved on this, unlike the Republicans, who've gotten worse. The Democrats now kick out their abusers and harassers. The Republicans elevate and celebrate their abusers and harassers -- currently celebrating the President, who has bragged about sexual assault and violations of women's consent on multiple occasions.
No, the next democratic convention will have the usual parade of Hollywood celebrities and they will be celebrated no matter how perverted and disgusting their movies or music is. Heck remember at Trumps inauguration when Bill Clinton was caught checking out Ivanka Trump.

Trump hasnt said those things for a long time so I dont get where you think republicans celebrate it. Anyways maybe next time the dems shouldnt throw all their eggs in one basket named Hillary.
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:01 PM
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With advice that valuable, I'm surprised you're just giving it away.
  #80  
Old 01-14-2020, 12:59 PM
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Why wouldn't minorities support Trump? In the past four years wages for low income workers have increased faster than they have in at least a decade. Black and Hispanic unemployment are at all-time lows. Trump is actively outreaching to them.
Income inequality has increased over the past few years thanks to the disastrous Republican tax cuts. Unemployment at record lows means little when your health insurance is about to be taken away. Actively outreaching to them? Perhaps, if you count ICE raids ripping Hispanic babies from their mothers' breasts or calling for the execution of men who have been proven innocent.



Quote:
A better question is why minorities still vote for Democrats? Democrats used to be the party of blue collar workers and working people's unions.
Democrats still are these things. If you have health insurance, it's either thanks to Obamacare or thanks to some union organizers who got beat up years ago getting it for your.
Quote:
Now they are the party of elite college grads. Democratic policies like national minimum wage laws and open borders directly hurt minorities.
This makes sense only if you believe in Republican fairy tales.

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Climate change policy tends to hurt the people in the lowest income brackets the most. Democratic initiatives like renewable energy and electric cars have no resonance with poor minority voters,
I don't think so. Renewable energy opens up opportunity for many good-paying jobs.

Quote:
They are more aligned with Republicans than Democrats on 'social justice' issues, especially around feminism and LGBT issues.
Minorities are not monolithic on these issues. Some are indeed resistant to gay rights, others relate to non-straights as being fellow sufferers at the hands of the majority.


Quote:
And as many blacks and hispanics are coming to realize, their blind support for Democrats means the Democrats don't have to work for their vote, so their needs are ignored.
Makes no sense. Who is trying to suppress minority votes and gerrymander them into insignificance? Who is trying to take health care away from millions of minorities? It isn't the Democrats.


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If there is a tipping point and minorities start shifting to the GOP because Democrats no longer align with their needs and beliefs, the Dems are screwed.
They will only shift to the GOP if they are stupid enough to believe their lies.

Quote:
This is the problem with intersectionality and trying to build a party out of a coalition of minorities and special interests: at some point the groups in the coalition start diverging in goals, and it gets increasingly hard to keep them together.
As opposed to building a party based on white nationalism and bigotry against all who are not straight white male Americans.
  #81  
Old 01-14-2020, 01:11 PM
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And look at Hollywood and all the filthy and immoral crap coming from it. Who does Hollywood support the most? Democrats. Wait till the next DNC convention and it will be a parade of all the Hollywoods most perverted. Hillary had Beyonce at her rallies. Remember Weinstein? He was a big DNC supporter and gave the democrats lots of money.
Yeah, immoral crap like A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood and Little Women.

And what's wrong with Beyonce? I'm not a fan, but she doesn't seem offensive.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:14 PM
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If there is a tipping point and minorities start shifting to the GOP because Democrats no longer align with their needs and beliefs, the Dems are screwed. This is the problem with intersectionality and trying to build a party out of a coalition of minorities and special interests: at some point the groups in the coalition start diverging in goals, and it gets increasingly hard to keep them together.
The Dem platform isn't a strategy to get the most votes out of the biggest base of voters possible as much as it is responding to the needs of the most people who need help and/or want to move the country forward. Yeah, we're clumsy as hell in the way we go about it sometimes. But, regardless of race, people who want to move forward and solve problems will be more likely to vote Democratic. What's the alternative? What are the GOP's solutions that will lift all boats? Can minorities work with a party that has actively sought to disenfranchise them instead of winning them?
  #83  
Old 01-14-2020, 01:19 PM
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No, the next democratic convention will have the usual parade of Hollywood celebrities and they will be celebrated no matter how perverted and disgusting their movies or music is. Heck remember at Trumps inauguration when Bill Clinton was caught checking out Ivanka Trump.

Trump hasnt said those things for a long time so I dont get where you think republicans celebrate it. Anyways maybe next time the dems shouldnt throw all their eggs in one basket named Hillary.
Trump has continuously and continually denigrated women, through the present, especially those women who spoke out about their experiences with him (i.e. the women who said he assaulted them). If you've missed this, it's out in public for all to see, again and again -- here's an example: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...193535011.html

There are many others.

Most Republicans continue to support and celebrate an admitted sexual abuser who bragged about violating the consent of women and has been credibly accused of rape and sexual assault on multiple occasions over decades.

I'm sure you'd prefer to pretend this uncomfortable fact isn't real, but that doesn't change reality.
  #84  
Old 01-14-2020, 02:27 PM
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I do more than just "meet some" I work with them directly and hear what they are saying. Yes, religion is a big thing and when a democratic presidential candidate promises to take away a churches tax exemption because they dont agree with all the LGBT issues, people will object.
Are people going to stop going to church if churches no longer get a tax exemption?

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Originally Posted by Urbanredneck View Post
Dont people have a right to their own moral values?
Not at the expense of human rights they don't. Fuck those moral values.

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Originally Posted by Urbanredneck View Post
And look at Hollywood and all the filthy and immoral crap coming from it.
You think that shit goes on only in Hollywood? The church has been committing and getting away with immoral crap far longer than Hollywood.

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Originally Posted by Urbanredneck View Post
Who does Hollywood support the most? Democrats. Wait till the next DNC convention and it will be a parade of all the Hollywoods most perverted. Hillary had Beyonce at her rallies. Remember Weinstein? He was a big DNC supporter and gave the democrats lots of money.
And now he's on trial for rape and will be going to jail and no amount of money is going to help him. You act like Republicans don't have their share of scumbags. Should we compare notes or do you want to reconsider acting as if GOP shit don't stink?
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Last edited by QuickSilver; 01-14-2020 at 02:28 PM.
  #85  
Old 01-14-2020, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
Are people going to stop going to church if churches no longer get a tax exemption?
FTR, I think churches should get taxed like any other non-profits. And churches getting taxed won't led people to stop coming. But to specifically tailor tax policy on the basis of LGBT beliefs is politically-motivated targeting. It would be akin to Republicans saying that all clinics that provide mammograms should be tax-free, except for those who promote abortion liked Planned Parenthood, which should be taxed.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
FTR, I think churches should get taxed like any other non-profits. And churches getting taxed won't led people to stop coming. But to specifically tailor tax policy on the basis of LGBT beliefs is politically-motivated targeting. It would be akin to Republicans saying that all clinics that provide mammograms should be tax-free, except for those who promote abortion liked Planned Parenthood, which should be taxed.
It's LGBTQ now, but I think it's more about human rights in general rather than one specific group du jour.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Urbanredneck View Post
On that same issue, we have one democratic candidate, O-Rourke, for president who openly says any church that will not support gay marriage should lose its tax free status.
Beto "O-Rourke" dropped out of the Democratic primary nearly two months ago.
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Originally Posted by Urbanredneck View Post
And look at Hollywood and all the filthy and immoral crap coming from it. Who does Hollywood support the most? Democrats. Wait till the next DNC convention and it will be a parade of all the Hollywoods most perverted. Hillary had Beyonce at her rallies. Remember Weinstein? He was a big DNC supporter and gave the democrats lots of money.
Say it ain't so. Hillary had a pop star at one of her rallies? Shocking! It's a good thing Donald Trump and the Republicans would never pal around with some disgusting entertainer. Especially not one who was an open paedophile and who threatened to murder Clinton on stage.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
This says so much more about you than about any democratic party position, real or imagined.
The OP question is why do minorities support Trump. People like me who arent neccesarily democrats gave some responses. The OP wanted to learn (I guess/hope).

Why are you arguing with me and others? Why cant it just be "thank you for your insight/opinion" and leave it at that?

I mean this could just be a dem board where everyone races for the coveted "I Hate Trump the Most" award where everyone just agrees with each other but what good is that?

Whatever happened to listening and learning?
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:35 PM
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Y’know guys... “Explanation is NOT Justification.”

Someone answering why members of a minority group voted for Trump (be s/he insider or outsider), is not necessarily telling you it was RIGHT for them to have voted for Trump. They may be, but not necessarily.


OTOH, “because, Hollywood celebrities” is one pretty damn lousy explanation, when Trump himself is a professional tabloid celebrity.
  #90  
Old 01-14-2020, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by JRDelirious View Post


OTOH, “because, Hollywood celebrities” is one pretty damn lousy explanation, when Trump himself is a professional tabloid celebrity.
Ok, you got me there.
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:47 PM
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Why wouldn't minorities support Trump?
Because the modern GOP is a white nationalist party that is actively hostile to the well being of non-whites, and no matter how much PR and disinformation the GOP throws at this issue, pretty much everyone knows and understands this fact. The GOP over the last 50 years has made a deal with southern white and rural whites to win their votes by supporting their regressive racial agenda.

The real question is why do so many white women vote GOP. Trump won about 57% of the white vote, but his share of the non-white vote was only as OP said about 8% for blacks, and about 1/4 of asians and latinos. But white women still love the GOP despite the hostility to things like reproductive rights.

However college educated white women, according to polls, are now supporting the democrats by nearly a 30 point margin in 2020.
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Old 01-14-2020, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Urbanredneck View Post
The OP question is why do minorities support Trump. People like me who arent neccesarily democrats gave some responses. The OP wanted to learn (I guess/hope).

Why are you arguing with me and others? Why cant it just be "thank you for your insight/opinion" and leave it at that?

I mean this could just be a dem board where everyone races for the coveted "I Hate Trump the Most" award where everyone just agrees with each other but what good is that?

Whatever happened to listening and learning?
This is what you wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanredneck View Post
Look at all the democrats rushing to embrace the white girl from Sweden who's pushing for the environment while ignoring black suffering in our inner cities.

Do democrats REALLY thing black people should see that LGBT issues are the same as the issues facing blacks? For example - some white teenager who was born a boy but now wants to be a girl - well schools should accommodate him/her if not, its the same as when blacks were not allowed to attend white schools - right?

On that same issue, we have one democratic candidate, O-Rourke, for president who openly says any church that will not support gay marriage should lose its tax free status.

Democrats are the party who want to take away a persons rights to purchase a handgun so a person can protect their family.
In what way does the above address the OP question about minorities voting for Trump?

Because it sounds very much like every concern ever expressed by a white conservative evangelical Trump voter.
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  #93  
Old 01-14-2020, 04:35 PM
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a lot of religious folks would probably vote for Jerry Sandusky if he was anti abortion.
  #94  
Old 01-14-2020, 09:42 PM
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Why wouldn't minorities support Trump? In the past four years wages for low income workers have increased faster than they have in at least a decade. Black and Hispanic unemployment are at all-time lows. Trump is actively outreaching to them.
Black unemployment fell faster under Obama than Trump. The LA Times had an article back in May about how black unemployment was on the rise again. Because of Trump's tariffs manufacturing has been in recession for months and farm bankruptcies have skyrocketed. Trump hasn't been good for the working class.

Scholars.org has an interesting article titled "UNDER DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTS, MINORITIES MAKE ECONOMIC GAINS - AND SO DO WHITES" that says "Across the years of Democratic leadership, black poverty declined by a net of 23.6 percentage points, but grew by three points when Republicans held the White House."

And this makes sense when you think about it. Democrats push for a higher minimum wage, affordable healthcare, affordable childcare, affordable college, etc. all things that people of any race trying to work their way into the middle class benefit from.

The biggest problem facing blacks is not that Democrats take advantage of them. It's that Democrats don't get elected to the presidency often enough. As a result, black poverty isn't falling as fast as it could falling.
  #95  
Old 01-15-2020, 05:07 AM
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The real question is why do so many white women vote GOP.
Many white women are bigots. They grew up in the same households as conservative white men. They are not feminists. There is no mystery.
  #96  
Old 01-15-2020, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
In what way does the above address the OP question about minorities voting for Trump?

Because it sounds very much like every concern ever expressed by a white conservative evangelical Trump voter.
He said it. Some blacks like some whites have not bought into the whole SJW thing and have no problem with Trump. Some like their company health insurance and don't want to see the system bombed and rebuilt. Some like their church that has opposed SSM since it's founding and don't want to have to increase donations X% to keep the same level of church services. Some are anti-abortion. Some don't favor LGBTQ, etc.

For the same reason many whites do. Just because someone is black does not mean that they tick off all of the boxes on the Democratic Party platform. That's a good answer. I don't understand why that is so hard to believe.
  #97  
Old 01-15-2020, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
For the same reason many whites do. Just because someone is black does not mean that they tick off all of the boxes on the Democratic Party platform. That's a good answer. I don't understand why that is so hard to believe.
That is fair enough and I think correct. But all the boxes in the Democratic platform that they don't tick off are far outweighed by these boxes in the Republican platform:
* Gerrymander black votes into insignificance
* Repeal the ACA and with it having children covered to age 26
* Purge black voters with some made up fig leaf justifying it
* Suspect every brown citizen of not being a citizen
* Put children in cages and rip suckling infants from their mothers' breasts
* Destroy Social Security (an 80+ year crusade) and destroy Medicare (a 50+ year crusade)
* Gut environmental protections
* Bust unions

For most sensible people of all races, these Republican positions outweigh by far any concerns they may have with the Democratic platform.
  #98  
Old 01-15-2020, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by BobLibDem View Post
Income inequality has increased over the past few years thanks to the disastrous Republican tax cuts. Unemployment at record lows means little when your health insurance is about to be taken away. Actively outreaching to them? Perhaps, if you count ICE raids ripping Hispanic babies from their mothers' breasts or calling for the execution of men who have been proven innocent.
Income inequality? Be careful where you get your data from. The published census data does not account for taxes and most welfare payments, and paints a distorted picture. Look, Trump is a jerk and a buffoon but the census data skews our views.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:03 AM
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Income inequality? Be careful where you get your data from. The published census data does not account for taxes and most welfare payments, and paints a distorted picture. Look, Trump is a jerk and a buffoon but the census data skews our views.
From Wikipedia

Quote:
In September 2019, the Census Bureau reported that income inequality in the United States had reached its highest level in 50 years, with the GINI index increasing from 48.2 in 2017 to 48.5 in 2018.
Before taxes and transfers, all income groups will see income growth, with the largest increases being for the highest and lowest quintiles. After taxes and transfers, that income growth is more skewed toward the higher income households.
Income inequality is projected to increase, both before taxes and transfers, and after taxes and transfers, from Ginis of .513 to .521 and .423 to .437, respectively.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Bullitt View Post
Income inequality? Be careful where you get your data from. The published census data does not account for taxes and most welfare payments, and paints a distorted picture. Look, Trump is a jerk and a buffoon but the census data skews our views.
Certainly, you're not arguing that income inequality isn't growing?

Piketty, T., & Saez, E. (2014). Inequality in the long run. Science, 344(6186), 838-843.

Tsui, A. S., Enderle, G., & Jiang, K. (2018). Income inequality in the United States: Reflections on the role of corporations.

Saez, E. (2018). Striking it richer: The evolution of top incomes in the United States. In Inequality in the 21st Century (pp. 39-42). Routledge.

Saez, E., & Zucman, G. (2016). Wealth inequality in the United States since 1913: Evidence from capitalized income tax data. The Quarterly Journal of Economics, 131(2), 519-578.

Smith, A. D. (2019). Income Inequality, Polarization and Electoral Politics in the United States (Doctoral dissertation, Georgetown University).

Jones, C. I., & Kim, J. (2018). A Schumpeterian model of top income inequality. Journal of Political Economy, 126(5), 1785-1826.

And so on.
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