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  #101  
Old 11-20-2019, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by enalzi View Post
Are you ever going to explain what your other moderate positions are, or do you just care about guns?
I've posted several times that I'm pro choice, pro marriage equality, pro legalization of marijuana. I'm a staunch 1st Amendment guy, too. Free speech--even unpopular speech. Yes, I'd allow the Nazis and the Klan to have their marches. Hell, I'd even allow Notre Dame fans to march and otherwise support that vile pit of darkness. I think the GOP tax cuts have gone too far, especially in my state. I support public education, not vouchers for private schools. I think there is room for reductions in the defense budget. And, for whatever it may be worth, I just filed what I honestly believe is the first same sex adoption case in my court district.
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Last edited by Oakminster; 11-20-2019 at 08:12 PM.
  #102  
Old 11-20-2019, 08:24 PM
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I've posted several times that I'm pro choice, pro marriage equality, pro legalization of marijuana. I'm a staunch 1st Amendment guy, too. Free speech--even unpopular speech. Yes, I'd allow the Nazis and the Klan to have their marches. Hell, I'd even allow Notre Dame fans to march and otherwise support that vile pit of darkness. I think the GOP tax cuts have gone too far, especially in my state. I support public education, not vouchers for private schools. I think there is room for reductions in the defense budget. And, for whatever it may be worth, I just filed what I honestly believe is the first same sex adoption case in my court district.
I agree with all that. We are the silent majority of Dem voters.

Unfortunately the Purity Progressives want us Bill Clinton/Obama types relegated to the back bench.

Bernie, Liz, AOC, and Omar are the new face of Democrats.

They have a rude awakening coming.
  #103  
Old 11-20-2019, 08:50 PM
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...Joe Walsh is a hard-right-tea-party-conservative who called Obama a Muslim ...
Free advertising from the real Joe Walsh: Vote for Me
  #104  
Old 11-20-2019, 10:07 PM
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I'm looking for a candidate to support. Trump is a complete non-starter for me. Didn't vote for him last time, won't vote for him this time. I did have an opportunity to watch one of his rallies on television a few weeks ago. Sounded like he'd fit right in had he spoken in Berlin in 1938.

If I can't find a suitable Dem, I'll cast my ballot for a third party, likely Libertarian, or write myself in. Hence, this thread.
Thatís a very fair response, and I shouldnít have jumped to conclusions that you see it as a two party race. I mean it is, but I hadnít considered you would vote for a third party candidate.

Do you live in a state where you expect the outcome is already decided (eg, California or Kansas)? Also, if you do find a candidate you like, do you think youíd campaign for him, or are we just talking about who you will vote for on Election Day?
  #105  
Old 11-20-2019, 10:14 PM
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My criteria include, but are not limited to:

1) Generally considered moderate on most issues.
2) No support for any form of gun ban, whether limited to "assault weapons" or not.
3) No support for any form of gun registration or licensing .
4) Support for legalization of marijuana is a plus, but I can live without it.

Unfortunately, I think criteria 2 & 3 eliminate the entire field, or at least the ones that have a real chance to be the nominee.
I can't think of anyone who matches currently.

What would you consider a working definition of "moderate" if some Democrat magically said "you know what, I'm not really a fan of guns, but it's pointless to fight it, let's put our resources elsewhere"? Or maybe more to the point, what would you consider too immoderate?

I think that's a good pragmatic idea (strategically abandoning the anti-gun crusade), and I am not an original thinker, so someone else is probably thinking of running on it right now.

Last edited by HMS Irruncible; 11-20-2019 at 10:17 PM.
  #106  
Old 11-20-2019, 11:56 PM
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I've posted several times that I'm pro choice, pro marriage equality, pro legalization of marijuana. I'm a staunch 1st Amendment guy, too. Free speech--even unpopular speech. Yes, I'd allow the Nazis and the Klan to have their marches. Hell, I'd even allow Notre Dame fans to march and otherwise support that vile pit of darkness. I think the GOP tax cuts have gone too far, especially in my state. I support public education, not vouchers for private schools. I think there is room for reductions in the defense budget. And, for whatever it may be worth, I just filed what I honestly believe is the first same sex adoption case in my court district.
Since my first attempt apparently didn't merit a response, I'll ask again: Why are gun rights your priority over all your other positions? Why do the rights of gay people, more lax drug laws, free speech, fiscal responsibility, public good over private wealth accumulation, and children's rights all get pushed to the side because of one issue about guns?

I'm a pro-life, fiscally responsible liberal who knows Clinton committed perjury, but those disagreements with the Democrat party line dont even come close to overwhelming my desire to stand up for equality and fairness, to put an end to white nationalism, and to not have subhuman garbage like Trump run my party. This idea that guns outweigh all the other viewpoints is foreign to me. Why put aside so many of your positions for guns?

Last edited by Hamlet; 11-20-2019 at 11:58 PM.
  #107  
Old 11-21-2019, 12:15 AM
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Pro tip: he was never considering voting for a dem.
When the OP says multiple times they have and are considering voting for a dem, this is essentially an accusation of lying. You also have this habit of dropping these one line turds that do nothing other than add snide remarks. Knock it off.

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  #108  
Old 11-21-2019, 12:16 AM
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Thank you Oakminster for a posting a breath of fresh air and brutal honesty.

It takes balls to state that you would rather 1000's of innocent people die every year so that you don't have to register your gun. Bravo!
Not many people are honest enough to say that they would prefer the country slide into ruin than have to fill out a piece of paper. Strong work!
I also appreciate your dedication to the idea that absolutely no restrictions on firearms is the most important issue in the country. Makes me proud.

Thank you for your service.
Purposely misstating a person's positions in an effort to denigrate them is pretty jerkish. Don't do that.

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  #109  
Old 11-21-2019, 07:20 AM
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My problem with that is how absolutely selfish that is.
No regulations on you means that many other totally innocent people will be shot.
No regulations on you means that many families will mourn their sons and daughters, live without their husbands and fathers.
No regulations on you means that others will live with the knowledge that their 3 year old killed their 5 year old.
Just so that you can shoot as much as you want.

Selfish. Selfish and complicit in so many of the things that have made America so screwed up these days.
I may lean slightly to the anti-gun side of the fence, but I disagree with this. The problem with voting against "gun grabbers" is NOT that gun grabbing is good; it's that there are a myriad of much much more important issues.

The U.S. is adding to federal debt at a rate of a trillion dollars per year. Income inequality is as bad as it's been since the 1920's and is getting worse. Globalism and automation dictate a fundamental shift in economic paradigms. Evil countries like Saudi Arabia and Russia are gaining strength with U.S. assistance. The Middle East is still a mess. Environmental regulations have been devastated; cancers and other health problems will rise as corporations are increasingly permitted to pollute lakes and streams. Science becomes increasingly important as humanity faces new challenges; yet science is being devastated by U.S. policies. NASA is no longer allowed to publish controversial climate data, but is encouraged to waste money on a Mars boondoggle. Racism is on the rise. U.S. prestige is plummeting and former allies turn to countries like China or even Russia. American healthcare costs continue to rise; education standards continue to fall; young Americans are stifled by debt, in some cases due to government cooperation with fraudulent schools. An opioid epidemic is causing American life expectancy to fall. News media are dominated by lies. Cyber warfare, both hard and soft, will become a big problem. By some measures electoral and political corruption are at all-time highs. Et cetera.

Yet gun control is the issue that determines how many Americans vote? The hilarity would make me laugh if it weren't so very very sad.

What makes that voting criterion especially ill-advised is that any significant gun-control is NOT coming any time soon. The political support isn't there at the national level, and there are far more important issues that will require more urgent attention.

And ...
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Originally Posted by cutman74 View Post
Just for the record, One of the first gun laws "gun grabber" Obama signed was one allowing citizens to carry loaded weapons in national parks. Business Insider, Dec 21, 2012. Don't know how to link, but it was easy to find. Has other gun rights expanding bills signed into law as well. Didn't read the whole article. Just wanted to make sure my memory was correct.
... the idea that guns will suddenly be restricted under even an anti-gun President is just a right-wing boogeyman anyway.

HTH.
  #110  
Old 11-21-2019, 08:03 AM
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And all of my guns were lost in a tragic boating accident in January, 2009.
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It was a bad time for a lot of (former) gun owners.
Yes, I feel for those "law-abiding" gun owners.
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You are correct. That "gun-grabbing" Obama also signed a bill allowing firearms as Amtrak cargo.

Another reason he is my favorite President of my lifetime (since JFK).
It's a pity all those gun owners had boating accidents at the beginning of his administration.

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Ok, but all of those things are already law in CA, but CA still has a higher murder rate. In fact CA has just about the strongest gun control laws in the uSA. They do not seem to have done much good.
It's almost as if the magic barrier that stops people from just bringing in bags of guns from places where they don't have those laws in place aren't working properly.

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So you can have ALL of those regulations yet all those bad things still happen.
See also: murder, rape, armed robbery, etc.
  #111  
Old 11-21-2019, 09:05 AM
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I might suggest that your views on guns are rather extreme and no Democrat will ever match them and dare I say extremely few Republicans would either. So perhaps you should consider whether that one issue trumps all others and that you're willing to sacrifice all other issues on the altar of guns.

Have you ever tried the I Side With Quiz?

For me, oddly enough my preferred candidate, Joe Biden, was the bottom of my Democratic list with Warren at the top. DJT was at the bottom.
  #112  
Old 11-21-2019, 11:45 AM
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I might suggest that your views on guns are rather extreme and no Democrat will ever match them and dare I say extremely few Republicans would either. So perhaps you should consider whether that one issue trumps all others and that you're willing to sacrifice all other issues on the altar of guns.

Have you ever tried the I Side With Quiz?

For me, oddly enough my preferred candidate, Joe Biden, was the bottom of my Democratic list with Warren at the top. DJT was at the bottom.
Thanks for posting that link. I always forget about it. I'm in a similar position to Oak in that I don't agree with any of the democratic front runners and won't vote for Trump. I've resigned myself to voting for Cory Gardener to keep republican control of the senate if I have to vote for Warren.

I took the quiz with a bunch of the ask more questions options and was surprised to see Democrats as my top 4 matches (in order Klobuchar, Booker, Yang and Castro). What I thought was fascinating was the next three were Weld (R), Warren (D) and Johnson (L) which I guess shows that I'm in a weird part of the political spectrum. Trump was last on the list. Hopefully, at least one of those top four dems is still in the race for Colorado caucus and I have a reason to do some deeper research on them.
  #113  
Old 11-21-2019, 11:59 AM
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I got a very strong match with Marianne Williamson on that quiz. Something is clearly broken. I responded that vaccinating kids is very important to me, plus I'm totally cool with drone attacks on terrorists. I can't imagine two issues that we could be further apart on.
  #114  
Old 11-21-2019, 12:07 PM
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S Why put aside so many of your positions for guns?
I'm not "putting aside" my other positions. Those things are still important to me, and I suspect a candidate that matches my views on guns will also likely have reasonably acceptable positions on the other issues.

I tend to be strongly small (l) libertarian in most things. I don't think the state should tell me what I can own, ingest/consume, say, think, or do so long as I do not violate the rights of others in so doing.
  #115  
Old 11-21-2019, 12:07 PM
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Trump is up for election, presumably, in 2020.

You are saying to the left that if we don't nominate someone to your liking then the country gets it in the form of Trump getting reelected, and its all our fault.

That is bullshit.
I guess I could say it's all OUR fault. This comes with one stipulation, YOU are voting for the Dem anyway, regardless who it is. Proposing a more moderate form of D, garners voters like him (and me) to vote for the D so yes, it is on YOU and those of you who staunchly support the Democrats to find an electable candidate.

I don't really understand why you guys who rail against third party voters because they just couldn't stomach voting for the hard left or Trump ...
  #116  
Old 11-21-2019, 12:08 PM
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My criteria include, but are not limited to:

1) Generally considered moderate on most issues.
2) No support for any form of gun ban, whether limited to "assault weapons" or not.
3) No support for any form of gun registration or licensing .
4) Support for legalization of marijuana is a plus, but I can live without it.

Unfortunately, I think criteria 2 & 3 eliminate the entire field, or at least the ones that have a real chance to be the nominee.
If 2 and 3 are all absolute litmus tests for you then likely no.

Odds are you will have to make a choice (and inaction is a choice as much as any action is).

Of course the reality is that SCOTUS rulings and current SCOTUS composition make significant movement on any "gun ban" unlikely but yup there is no D with a chance to win who will not state support for what the vast majority of the public, inclusive of gun owners and Republicans, consider common sense gun regulation. It would be foolish of them to do so. Many many more of those voters than you - in the general electorate let alone among D primary voters.

So you will be dealing with enabling (by action or inaction) what is within the art of the possible. Possibly (has to get by the Senate) some modest movement on gun registration and licensing as a compromise for a president who is otherwise not batshit insane, corrupt, a harm to American interests and friend to Russia's, and a danger to the planet perhaps even existentially ... or facilitating (actively or passively) all of the latter.

I see how that is a tough call ...
  #117  
Old 11-21-2019, 12:14 PM
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I'm not "putting aside" my other positions. Those things are still important to me, and I suspect a candidate that matches my views on guns will also likely have reasonably acceptable positions on the other issues.
Yet, even taken together, those positions are not enough to get you to support any politician who wants reasonable gun control. Why is that? And what, if anything, would this administration and its enablers have to do to outweigh your hatred of gun control?
  #118  
Old 11-21-2019, 12:21 PM
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Your support isnít really needed for any of them. Feel free to sit out the nominating process.

Just hold your nose and vote D exclusively until the R party no longer exists. Itís the right thing to do (which is why I prescribe this course of action for every voter in the country).

Actual Democrats ought to participate in the nominations, of course.
  #119  
Old 11-21-2019, 12:23 PM
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I guess I could say it's all OUR fault. This comes with one stipulation, YOU are voting for the Dem anyway, regardless who it is. Proposing a more moderate form of D, garners voters like him (and me) to vote for the D so yes, it is on YOU and those of you who staunchly support the Democrats to find an electable candidate.

I don't really understand why you guys who rail against third party voters because they just couldn't stomach voting for the hard left or Trump ...
Because the elimination of the Republican Party has emerged as the most existentially critical task that America has.
  #120  
Old 11-21-2019, 12:26 PM
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Have you ever tried the I Side With Quiz?

For me, oddly enough my preferred candidate, Joe Biden, was the bottom of my Democratic list with Warren at the top. DJT was at the bottom.
I made sure I filled out all the questions, although on a fair number I went with more nuanced answers. I ended up with most of the Democratic field in a tight cluster at the top (Klobuchar, Booker and Buttigieg were listed first but most were within about five percentage points and all within 10). Biden was the furthest Democrat out at about 81%. So clearly on the issues that are weightiest to me, the Democrats are all pretty much of a muchness.

Gary Johnson managed to land in the mid-60s for me, and unsurprisingly Trump was at the bottom of the list at 31%. So it looks like Any Democrat (including - barf - Williamson) will do for me according to that quiz.
  #121  
Old 11-21-2019, 12:27 PM
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reasonable gun control.
That's the thing. Gun bans and licensing/registration are not "reasonable gun control". They are infringements of the rights protected by the2nd Amendment. I don't like politicians that want to handwave away constitutional rights they find inconvenient.
  #122  
Old 11-21-2019, 12:27 PM
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Because the elimination of the Republican Party has emerged as the most existentially critical task that America has.
This kind of crazy talk helps no one except maybe Trump. Divisive policy has been the standard now for a few presidencies. It is just getting worse.

Do you truly feel you have or could have the power to eliminate the Republican party or is it just fantasy land talk?
  #123  
Old 11-21-2019, 12:31 PM
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Because the elimination of the Republican Party has emerged as the most existentially critical task that America has.
How do you, personally, recommend such an elimination be accomplished?
  #124  
Old 11-21-2019, 12:34 PM
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How do you, personally, recommend such an elimination be accomplished?
He just told you:

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Just hold your nose and vote D exclusively until the R party no longer exists. Itís the right thing to do (which is why I prescribe this course of action for every voter in the country).
  #125  
Old 11-21-2019, 12:37 PM
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That's the thing. Gun bans and licensing/registration are not "reasonable gun control". They are infringements of the rights protected by the2nd Amendment. I don't like politicians that want to handwave away constitutional rights they find inconvenient.
How does gun registration infringe upon your 2nd Amendment rights?
  #126  
Old 11-21-2019, 12:49 PM
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... I don't like politicians that want to handwave away constitutional rights they find inconvenient.
They cannot. SCOTUS prevents it since as a matter of tautology what is a constitutional right is what SCOTUS has decided it is and laws that go against it will be struck down. So what do you actually fear?
  #127  
Old 11-21-2019, 12:59 PM
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That's the thing. Gun bans and licensing/registration are not "reasonable gun control". They are infringements of the rights protected by the2nd Amendment. I don't like politicians that want to handwave away constitutional rights they find inconvenient.
Any chance you'll answer my questions, or should I just move on? I don't think a debate about what gun control (if any at all) is "reasonable", will help anyone. I find it much more interesting to delve into the questions I already asked: why does even a modicum of gun control legislation outweigh all your other positions and concerns, including much more tangibly harm causing issues. And exactly how much are you willing to put up from this administration and its enablers in order to avoid any legislation on guns whatsoever.

Last edited by Hamlet; 11-21-2019 at 12:59 PM.
  #128  
Old 11-21-2019, 01:05 PM
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They cannot. SCOTUS prevents it since as a matter of tautology what is a constitutional right is what SCOTUS has decided it is and laws that go against it will be struck down. So what do you actually fear?
Politicians on both sides can, and do, handwave away constitutional objections as a rhetorical device to advance their arguments for their positions. "Reasonable, common sense gun control" is a catchphrase used by many politicians to include things like gun bans. "Hate speech" to argue against the First Amendment. "Religious Freedom" to argue against equal protection for gay people. Etc.

As for SCOTUS, how comfortable are you with how they might handle an abortion case if Ginsburg dies while Trump is still in office? I don't want to depend on SCOTUS to strike a law that should never have been enacted in the first place.
  #129  
Old 11-21-2019, 01:11 PM
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Any chance you'll answer my questions, or should I just move on? I don't think a debate about what gun control (if any at all) is "reasonable", will help anyone. I find it much more interesting to delve into the questions I already asked: why does even a modicum of gun control legislation outweigh all your other positions and concerns, including much more tangibly harm causing issues. And exactly how much are you willing to put up from this administration and its enablers in order to avoid any legislation on guns whatsoever.
I responded to that in post #114, to the extent I intend to respond. The crap about how much I'm "willing to put up with" is nonsense. I've already rejected Trump seven ways to Sunday. Didn't vote for him, won't vote for him. Not voting for an unacceptable Dem candidate does not equal support for Trump.
  #130  
Old 11-21-2019, 01:19 PM
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Andrew Yang had the best answer regarding gun violence - actually it was in reference to white-supremacist and domestic terrorism, but it overlaps. He's the only candidate who, in this context, as far as I know, has brought up the idea of stopping these shooters BEFORE they kill anyone, by making more of an effort to reach out to vulnerable and troubled young men to try to get them to turn their lives around. As far as the greater issues of gun control per se, I'm not sure where he stands exactly, but the fact that he hasn't made a big push for more gun control in any of these debates suggests that it's not something he's very motivated to pursue.
  #131  
Old 11-21-2019, 01:24 PM
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Yang supports licensing, "education", and "assault weapon" bans. "Gun education" is ridiculous for someone like me. I've literally been handling guns longer than he's been alive (he was born in 1975).

Cite

Last edited by Oakminster; 11-21-2019 at 01:24 PM.
  #132  
Old 11-21-2019, 01:28 PM
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I responded to that in post #114, to the extent I intend to respond.
I apparently didn't understand it, so, if you would, could you elaborate and tell me what I'm missing? I'm interested in why gun control is such an important factor to you that it apparently outweighs all your, and the country's, other concerns.
  #133  
Old 11-21-2019, 01:43 PM
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They cannot. SCOTUS prevents it since as a matter of tautology what is a constitutional right is what SCOTUS has decided it is and laws that go against it will be struck down. So what do you actually fear?
Sure but that is a lot like saying that liberal fears that abortion rights will be removed is pointless since SCOTUS has ruled they exist. Politicians can seat justices that believe whatever they want since there are no criteria beyond the president and senate agreeing. It is reasonable to vote for politicians who agree with your view of the constitution so they don't install justices that don't agree with you.
  #134  
Old 11-21-2019, 01:51 PM
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He just told you:
Very kind of you to answer for him. So, he is just voicing a wildly unrealistic fantasy. Nothing there worth discussing.
  #135  
Old 11-21-2019, 02:39 PM
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That's the thing. Gun bans and licensing/registration are not "reasonable gun control". They are infringements of the rights protected by the2nd Amendment. I don't like politicians that want to handwave away constitutional rights they find inconvenient.
Gonna repeat this question because I'm curious about the answer...

What does "moderate" mean to a 2nd-amendment absolutist such as yourself? Or, if it's easier framing, what Democrat policies fall squarely outside that definition of moderate? Let's exclude "rejecting Trump" because that's not a really good definition of moderate. In a sane world this would also be a universal position shared by both liberal and conservative.

I think the gun debate is sucking all the energy away from that question. I suspect that your definition of moderate isn't something that even a mild Democrat is going to satisfy.

Last edited by HMS Irruncible; 11-21-2019 at 02:42 PM.
  #136  
Old 11-21-2019, 03:39 PM
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Because the elimination of the Republican Party has emerged as the most existentially critical task that America has.
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This kind of crazy talk helps no one except maybe Trump. Divisive policy has been the standard now for a few presidencies. It is just getting worse.
It's not crazy talk. It's non-debatable,* objective fact.
Quote:
Do you truly feel you have or could have the power to eliminate the Republican party or is it just fantasy land talk?
Honestly, I do not believe that I have the power to make it happen with a wave of my hand. It's going to take ALL of us to make it work out, and it's patently clear that it needs to happen.

I'll tell you this much, though. If the Republican Party is eliminated per my instructions, and the planet collides with the sun (or some other extinction event occurs) as a consequence, I am willing to bear full responsibility for the demise of our species.

In the words of a fuckstick who hates America: What have you got to lose?


*in keeping with this, I will not be debating it.

Last edited by kaylasdad99; 11-21-2019 at 03:43 PM.
  #137  
Old 11-21-2019, 03:39 PM
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Sure but that is a lot like saying that liberal fears that abortion rights will be removed is pointless since SCOTUS has ruled they exist. Politicians can seat justices that believe whatever they want since there are no criteria beyond the president and senate agreeing. It is reasonable to vote for politicians who agree with your view of the constitution so they don't install justices that don't agree with you.
So to make it clear: the issue is having a president more likely to nominate a conservative to SCOTUS who would be most sure to defer to current precedent on gun issues?

I would not expect any D nominee to do that and would be horrified if they did.
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  #138  
Old 11-21-2019, 04:06 PM
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I got a very strong match with Marianne Williamson on that quiz. Something is clearly broken. I responded that vaccinating kids is very important to me, plus I'm totally cool with drone attacks on terrorists. I can't imagine two issues that we could be further apart on.
I got 90% match on Bill Weld. I don't know who Bill Weld is. 88% on Gary Johnson. Those were my top two. Highest Democrat was Andrew Yang at 59% - except Yang is a nutjob. Williamson was last at 20%, and Harris, Castro, Warren, and Sanders at below 30%.
  #139  
Old 11-21-2019, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Bone View Post
I got 90% match on Bill Weld. I don't know who Bill Weld is. 88% on Gary Johnson. Those were my top two. Highest Democrat was Andrew Yang at 59% - except Yang is a nutjob. Williamson was last at 20%, and Harris, Castro, Warren, and Sanders at below 30%.
I guess we can't be friends anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakminster View Post
I've literally been handling guns longer than he's been alive (he was born in 1975).

Cite
I was really hoping the cite would be a picture of you in bellbottoms and a Nehru jacket, holding a gun. I was disappointed.

Last edited by Ravenman; 11-21-2019 at 04:13 PM.
  #140  
Old 11-21-2019, 07:38 PM
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I've resigned myself to voting for Cory Gardener to keep republican control of the senate if I have to vote for Warren.
Are you saying you'd vote for the D Senator if you could vote for a more acceptable Prez?

Legislation could improve Obamacare and lower costs for everyone, but you want Moscow Mitch to block any improvements out of spite. OK, I guess, as long as your guns are happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakminster View Post
That's the thing. Gun bans and licensing/registration are not "reasonable gun control". They are infringements of the rights protected by the2nd Amendment. I don't like politicians that want to handwave away constitutional rights they find inconvenient.
Is the government already infringing on your right to own a FIM-92 Stinger? Or does that blotted comma in the 2A text delineate that AR-15's are good, but Stingers are bad?
  #141  
Old 11-21-2019, 08:30 PM
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Are you saying you'd vote for the D Senator if you could vote for a more acceptable Prez?

Legislation could improve Obamacare and lower costs for everyone, but you want Moscow Mitch to block any improvements out of spite. OK, I guess, as long as your guns are happy.
Oh, I don't vote about gun ownership. Personally, I would prefer the repeal of the National Fire Arm Act and I think people should be able to own whatever they want but it is at best a fifth or sixth issue for me. I am quite happy with the status quo though over warren's proposals. I don't like the wealth tax, how she Is getting to universal health care, her transition to renewable energy, her plans for educations and in general I think every one of her plans is wrong. So, yes, I'd rather shut down the government for two years then give her free reign.

On the other hand I think Cory is a terrible representative who is one of Trump's biggest toadies and has sold the state out at every opportunity and I would love to vote for Hickenlooper or whoever is running against him if doing so won't completely screw the country. Nothing is more damaging then leaving trump as president so trump with a Dem senate isn't a viable solution.

I keep hoping for a dem I can vote for. Tracking the 16 crazies to find out the one I agree with has no chance got depressing early in the primary season so now I follow threads like these with hope and am resigned to doing serious research when I actually have choices to "vote" for.
  #142  
Old 11-21-2019, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 View Post
It's not crazy talk. It's non-debatable,* objective fact.

Honestly, I do not believe that I have the power to make it happen with a wave of my hand. It's going to take ALL of us to make it work out, and it's patently clear that it needs to happen.

I'll tell you this much, though. If the Republican Party is eliminated per my instructions, and the planet collides with the sun (or some other extinction event occurs) as a consequence, I am willing to bear full responsibility for the demise of our species.

In the words of a fuckstick who hates America: What have you got to lose?


*in keeping with this, I will not be debating it.

In all sincerity, what do you have to lose by moving to another country? You hate this one, by your own admission. Your proposed solution isn't going to happen. Who knows? You might be happy somewhere else.
  #143  
Old 11-21-2019, 08:37 PM
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I got 90% match on Bill Weld. I don't know who Bill Weld is. 88% on Gary Johnson. Those were my top two. Highest Democrat was Andrew Yang at 59% - except Yang is a nutjob. Williamson was last at 20%, and Harris, Castro, Warren, and Sanders at below 30%.
My results closely match yours.
  #144  
Old 11-21-2019, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 View Post
It's not crazy talk. It's non-debatable,* objective fact.

Honestly, I do not believe that I have the power to make it happen with a wave of my hand. It's going to take ALL of us to make it work out, and it's patently clear that it needs to happen.

I'll tell you this much, though. If the Republican Party is eliminated per my instructions, and the planet collides with the sun (or some other extinction event occurs) as a consequence, I am willing to bear full responsibility for the demise of our species.

In the words of a fuckstick who hates America: What have you got to lose?


*in keeping with this, I will not be debating it.
You might sing a different tune a couple decades from now when the Republican Party follows the full circle again and comes out on the left of the Democrats. There was a crossover about a century ago. It is bound to happen again.
  #145  
Old 11-21-2019, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Bone View Post
I got 90% match on Bill Weld. I don't know who Bill Weld is. 88% on Gary Johnson. Those were my top two. Highest Democrat was Andrew Yang at 59% - except Yang is a nutjob. Williamson was last at 20%, and Harris, Castro, Warren, and Sanders at below 30%.
It ranked the candidate I least like at the top.
  #146  
Old 11-22-2019, 08:05 AM
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... 88% on Gary Johnson. ... Andrew Yang at 59% - except Yang is a nutjob.
Since you're a Moderator you may be able to correct the typo in your post, despite missing the 5-minute window :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dictionary

.. nut∑job

/ˈnətjšb/
noun INFORMAL

noun: nut-job
a crazy or foolish person. Ex.: Gary Johnson
  #147  
Old 11-22-2019, 08:27 AM
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Have you ever tried the I Side With Quiz?
I tried that as a lark. My result was John Kasich. I think that's actually probably an accurate result. Highest Democrat was John Delaney.
  #148  
Old 11-22-2019, 08:39 AM
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I did the quiz too, and Trump came out on top, followed by some Republicans and Garry Johnson. Biden was the top Democrat, and I allegedly agree with him 47%.

Apparently my disagreements with Trump aren't policy-based. Go figure.

Regards,
Shodan
  #149  
Old 11-22-2019, 09:33 AM
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I did the quiz and am happy to report that Donald Trump was dead last with 3%. I feel like a decent human being today.
  #150  
Old 11-22-2019, 09:33 AM
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As expected:

96% Buttigieg
95% Klobuchar (not expected)
95% Sanders
94% Warren
.
.
.
91% Biden
.
.
29% Kasich (seems a good fellow)
.
.
3% Trump (that high?)
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Last edited by QuickSilver; 11-22-2019 at 09:36 AM.
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