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  #1  
Old 11-26-2019, 09:52 PM
Linden Arden is offline
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"Obama Said He Would Speak Up To Stop Bernie Sanders Nomination: Report"


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Former President Barack Obama, who has so far taken a neutral position publicly on the 2020 Democratic presidential primary, privately indicated he would speak up to stop Bernie Sanders from becoming the party’s nominee should the Vermont senator make significant gains, Politico reported Tuesday.

Politico’s Ryan Lizza, who spoke to several of Obama’s advisers, wrote that the former president sees his role in the Democratic primary process as “providing guardrails” to make sure it doesn’t get “too ugly” and “to unite the party when the nominee is clear.”
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/obama...CmZFmAHEQrQLqJ
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Old 11-26-2019, 09:56 PM
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Well he already interfered in the Canadian election, so why not interfere in the Dem nomination process as well?
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Old 11-26-2019, 10:37 PM
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Well, he's private citizen and a superdelegate. He certainly has the right to speak his mind. As the quote in the OP indicates, Obama is quite conscious of his duty to be a unifying figure. So if he does decide to speak against Sanders, I'm sure it would be after serious deliberation.
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Old 11-26-2019, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
Well, he's private citizen and a superdelegate. He certainly has the right to speak his mind. As the quote in the OP indicates, Obama is quite conscious of his duty to be a unifying figure. So if he does decide to speak against Sanders, I'm sure it would be after serious deliberation.
We can bring up how lackluster and overall shit Obamacare was. We can bring up the fact he enabled the US to commit regime change wars and justify coups like in Honduras. We can bring up the fact he was deporter in chief, even had his own concentration camps that were so filthy the courts ruled against him forcing him to catch n release. We can bring up the fact he sided with oil companies when it came to Keystone. We can bring up the fact he further expanded upon the mass surveillance state, and further cracked down on whistleblowers by abusing the espionage act.


So go ahead and attack Bernie Sanders. We welcome the attack, because we'll just throw it back in their centrist bluedog faces 10 fold, and kneecap biden in the process who'll likely try bringing up his dead child to disgustingly justify his half assed healthcare position.
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Old 11-26-2019, 11:28 PM
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We’re these concentration camps Obama had anywhere near the pizza place with child slaves? Might’ve been near the time of the Bowling Green massacre and wasn’t reported fully enough.
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Old 11-27-2019, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Barack Obama View Post
We can bring up how lackluster and overall shit Obamacare was. We can bring up the fact he enabled the US to commit regime change wars and justify coups like in Honduras. We can bring up the fact he was deporter in chief, even had his own concentration camps that were so filthy the courts ruled against him forcing him to catch n release. We can bring up the fact he sided with oil companies when it came to Keystone. We can bring up the fact he further expanded upon the mass surveillance state, and further cracked down on whistleblowers by abusing the espionage act.
We could bring up those things, but since several of them are false, there's not much point. E.g. the "concentration camp" one that's been repeatedly debunked, (https://www.politifact.com/punditfac...dren-experime/), "catch and release" predated Obama by decades,the "court case" nobody can point to, Keystone was repeatedly blocked by Obama and finally approved by Trump (https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ne-obama-trump), etc. It's possible that some of your points are correct, but they're hiding in the falsehoods.

Plus...and I shouldn't have to tell someone with your user name this...Obama isn't running in the election. You know who currently is? Bernie Sanders, the one person we know for sure was unable to even come close to beating Hilary Clinton. How could he beat Trump, exactly?
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Old 11-27-2019, 01:14 AM
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Oh who cares. Bernie's time is done. AND he isn't even a Democrat. Why should the party give him the nomination?
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Old 11-27-2019, 02:05 AM
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the "court case" nobody can point to
While most of the invective surrounding Barack Obama's assertion is ridiculous, the case itself is a second round of the Flores settlement, decided in 2015 and upheld on appeal in 2016.


And Bernie IS a Democrat. And an Independent. Depending on what he's running for - kind of like his opinion on superdelegates.
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Old 11-27-2019, 02:12 AM
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Bernie Sanders, the one person we know for sure was unable to even come close to beating Hilary Clinton. How could he beat Trump, exactly?
Let's talk substance.

M4A, SS Expansion, Criminal Justice reform, Immigration reform, anything specific you want to talk about in regards to Bernie Sanders? Or are you just going to dismiss him as not electable? If you want to make this about Clinton, she was always a democrat, in fact she's one of the most established democrats. Bernie Sanders was just some independent from Vermont who kept yelling about war and working class families. He ran, with barely any name recognition, going against the entire democratic establishment, and media. Even despite everything being used against he still came out on top with his policies such as M4A being ran on in later elections. Shifted the entire base left. And has consistently been polling in the top 3 of the race.

Your attacks, like mostly every dopers attacks I've seen, have been based on his elect-ability while ignoring his popularity. If you REALLY care about his elect-ability how about not dismissing his merit and actually discuss the policies. When Pete said substance doesn't matter, he was reflecting the views of the older more centrist democratic voting base which you likely fall under bud.
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Old 11-27-2019, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Barack Obama View Post
Let's talk substance.

M4A, SS Expansion, Criminal Justice reform, Immigration reform, anything specific you want to talk about in regards to Bernie Sanders? Or are you just going to dismiss him as not electable? If you want to make this about Clinton, she was always a democrat, in fact she's one of the most established democrats. Bernie Sanders was just some independent from Vermont who kept yelling about war and working class families. He ran, with barely any name recognition, going against the entire democratic establishment, and media. Even despite everything being used against he still came out on top with his policies such as M4A being ran on in later elections. Shifted the entire base left. And has consistently been polling in the top 3 of the race.

Your attacks, like mostly every dopers attacks I've seen, have been based on his elect-ability while ignoring his popularity. If you REALLY care about his elect-ability how about not dismissing his merit and actually discuss the policies. When Pete said substance doesn't matter, he was reflecting the views of the older more centrist democratic voting base which you likely fall under bud.
Where's the substance?

And is Bernie a Democrat or an Independent? If he's an Independent, why should Democrats make him their nominee? If he's a Democrat, why is he running for Senate as an Independent?
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Old 11-27-2019, 02:54 AM
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Oh who cares. Bernie's time is done. AND he isn't even a Democrat. Why should the party give him the nomination?
Because he's created a fervor and interest in liberal and leftist policy that was virtually unheard of, and changed the public conversation in a way very few politicians can. Three years ago, "Medicare for all" was a radical fever dream nobody could take seriously. Now, it's something every democratic candidate feels the need to take a position on. His rallies are packed, he's been polling near the top of the field basically since the start of the election, and has an extremely active and rabid fanbase. He's getting more money from small donors than other candidates are getting from small donors and super PACs combined. I don't know how much more is necessary to show that the man is heading up a social movement that ought to be taken seriously, but I hope that's enough to show that "his time is done" is an absurd, nonsensical statement. He's spent the entire election polling right behind Biden, and the only other close contender is Warren, someone who is mostly copying both his style and his policies.
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Old 11-27-2019, 06:30 AM
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Not much substance to the article. I do think Obama would like to prevent a Sanders nomination which would not only guarantee a loss but would be devastating down ballot as well. If you look at the 1964 and 1972 landslides, there wasn’t much down ballot effect. If we want to call 1980 a landslide, that did affect the down ballot as many liberal senators were defeated with Reagan winning.

But, I just don’t see Sanders getting the nomination. He’s got a hard floor but also a hard ceiling. There’s plenty of Dems (including myself) that would never vote for him in the primaries. This election is very different than 2016, it’s not a one on one matchup and likely won’t be for a while. There are also fewer caucuses which works against Bernie. It’s remarkable that the heart attack didn’t seem to affect him, but one more health scare certainly will.

Q4 fundraising will be interesting as it’ll incorporate the heart attack. I think his huge Q3 fundraising was boosted by all the college students returning to school, maybe I’m wrong and it’ll stay strong in Q4.
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Old 11-27-2019, 07:40 AM
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Sanders doesn’t have a chance due to the aforementioned hard ceiling. The best he could hope for is to keep all his 2016 voters while everyone else splits up the 2016 Clinton primary voters. Even in that scenario (which won’t happen because some of his voters will likely flip to Warren) the next best he can hope for is that he can be a kingmaker by presumably putting Warren over the top. I’m not sure how long ago Obama made those comments but they’re not helpful. I assume he knows comments like that can cause CT types to think the fix is in against Bernie, and then lose faith in the process and not vote in the general election. Bad move on Obama’s part.
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Old 11-27-2019, 07:55 AM
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Sanders doesn’t have a chance due to the aforementioned hard ceiling. The best he could hope for is to keep all his 2016 voters while everyone else splits up the 2016 Clinton primary voters. Even in that scenario (which won’t happen because some of his voters will likely flip to Warren) the next best he can hope for is that he can be a kingmaker by presumably putting Warren over the top. I’m not sure how long ago Obama made those comments but they’re not helpful. I assume he knows comments like that can cause CT types to think the fix is in against Bernie, and then lose faith in the process and not vote in the general election. Bad move on Obama’s part.
Don't fall for this click bait pot stirring. Obama hasn't done anything at all. These are second hand reports of private conversations. Even if true, it's not a "bad move".
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Old 11-27-2019, 08:02 AM
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Near the end of the article:
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Publicly, Obama has said he would support whoever becomes the Democratic nominee.

“Look, we have a field of very accomplished, very serious and passionate and smart people who have a history of public service, and whoever emerges from the primary process I will work my tail off to make sure that they are the next president,” he told a crowd at a Democracy Alliance event in Washington earlier this month.

That includes Sanders, someone familiar with Obama’s thinking told HuffPost.
It's a bullshit story.
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Old 11-27-2019, 09:31 AM
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Well, even if the story is just based on rumors of secondhand conversations, the point that Bernie Sanders doesn't have even 40 votes in the Senate or 40% of the House for the major points of his agenda is a real point that a Sanders presidency would accomplish nothing.
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Old 11-27-2019, 09:44 AM
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Well, even if the story is just based on rumors of secondhand conversations, the point that Bernie Sanders doesn't have even 40 votes in the Senate or 40% of the House for the major points of his agenda is a real point that a Sanders presidency would accomplish nothing.
And Warren doesn’t either. Even if the Democrats magically get the Senate, that wealth tax is DOA in a senate with Durbin and Schumer in control.
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Old 11-27-2019, 11:10 AM
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Oh who cares. Bernie's time is done. AND he isn't even a Democrat. Why should the party give him the nomination?
Because the last time they tried to shut him out, Trump became president. The DNC is every bit as responsible as culpable for Trump being president as Hillary.

Having another politician publicly take a stance against him because of his electability is not like trying to torpedo him with a whispering campaign about his religious views or giving his opponent the questions before a debate. There is nothing sneaky or shady about Obama making public statements questioning Bernie's electability.
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Old 11-27-2019, 11:24 AM
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Let's talk substance....Or are you just going to dismiss him as not electable?
Yes. Electability is the only fucking thing that matters. If you can't prove his viability then we should dismiss him. This election is a redistricting year election. Our candidate's coattails in swing states is going to shape elections for the next decade. I don't care about policies, noone on that stage has policies worth losing for.

Right now Bernie looks reasonably electable and time will tell. But if it becomes clear that there is another candidate that is clearly more electable, we should go with that candidate.

I have no interest in winning a close race with a candidate with more progressive policies. Folks who think politicians like trump are a viable road to victory have to experience a defeat so complete and thorough that people in their own party will laugh at them for suggesting nominating anyone like Trump again. The defeat has to continue to be overwhelming. Shaving off moderates in an attempt to move further and further to the left will create room for future Trumps.

Quote:
Shifted the entire base left.
This is not necessarily a good thing.

Quote:
If you REALLY care about his elect-ability how about not dismissing his merit and actually discuss the policies. When Pete said substance doesn't matter, he was reflecting the views of the older more centrist democratic voting base which you likely fall under bud.
I didn't realize Pete said that. I will have to start taking him more seriously.

If Bernie polls better than trump by bigger margins than any of the other candidates in the swing states, then he has my vote.

Things I don't care about:

How well a democrat polls in California or any other state that Hillary carried by more than 10%
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Old 11-27-2019, 12:27 PM
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It's a bullshit story.
I'm not typically one for conspiratorial thinking, but in this day and age, we have to at least consider the possibility that this is intentionally leaked misinformation intended to sew divisions within the Democratic party.
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Old 11-27-2019, 12:38 PM
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It's just as likely that HuffPo just wanted a click bait article. "Oooh, establishment intrigue against the progressive prophet. Let's whisper about it!"
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Old 11-27-2019, 01:40 PM
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If Bernie can get the majority of the Democratic party primary voters to back him then he deserves to be our nominee. But so far there is no evidence that he can. The argument for Bernie seems to be that I and all the people in my dorm really really like him so therefore he should be the nominee. Sorry, but it just doesn't work like that.

It wasn't the evil mechations of the Democratic party establishment that kept him from the nomination in 2016, it was the 16,914,722 rank and file Democrats who preferred Clinton to him.

If he can't get a majority of liberal Democrats to vote for him how is he going to get the majority of the country to.

Last edited by Buck Godot; 11-27-2019 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 11-27-2019, 02:14 PM
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We can bring up how lackluster and overall shit Obamacare was. We can bring up the fact he enabled the US to commit regime change wars and justify coups like in Honduras. We can bring up the fact he was deporter in chief, even had his own concentration camps that were so filthy the courts ruled against him forcing him to catch n release. We can bring up the fact he sided with oil companies when it came to Keystone. We can bring up the fact he further expanded upon the mass surveillance state, and further cracked down on whistleblowers by abusing the espionage act.


So go ahead and attack Bernie Sanders. We welcome the attack, because we'll just throw it back in their centrist bluedog faces 10 fold, and kneecap biden in the process who'll likely try bringing up his dead child to disgustingly justify his half assed healthcare position.
And then you'll have to face Trump's policies for another 4 years.
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Old 11-27-2019, 03:46 PM
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Here's the actual Politico article which the HuffPo piece is based on. It's actually pretty good.

It says:
Quote:
Back when Sanders seemed like more of a threat than he does now, Obama said privately that if Bernie were running away with the nomination, Obama would speak up to stop him. (Asked about that, a spokesperson for Obama pointed out that Obama recently said he would support and campaign for whoever the Democratic nominee is.)
Which, in the absence of any information about when he allegedly said this and who he said it to, doesn't mean much.

Later on:
Quote:
When it comes to Sanders, I asked one close adviser whether Obama would really lay himself on the line to prevent a Sanders nomination. “I can’t really confirm that,” the adviser said. “He hasn’t said that directly to me. The only reason I'm hesitating at all is because, yeah, if Bernie were running away with it, I think maybe we would all have to say something. But I don't think that's likely. It's not happening.” (Another close Obama friend said, “Bernie's not a Democrat.”)
I'm hoping Obama is smart enough not to take sides in the primary, but it's clear that he doesn't care for Sanders' policies and style. OTOH, eight years of his policies and style got us Trump, so...
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Old 12-02-2019, 10:36 PM
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If Sanders was running away with it Obama would say nothing because by then it wouldn't do any good. Where Obama probably would weigh in is in a Biden or Buttigieg vs. Sanders scenario well into the primary process where there's still a good chance to stop Sanders. Especially with Buttigieg, who has like zero black support, but I bet an Obama endorsement would get him all the black support he'd need.
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Old 12-03-2019, 01:29 PM
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We can bring up how lackluster and overall shit Obamacare was. We can bring up the fact he enabled the US to commit regime change wars and justify coups like in Honduras. We can bring up the fact he was deporter in chief....
Weirdest username/post combination ever.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:02 PM
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I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking that. The other amusing thing was, ok, go ahead and try to go toe-to-toe with the by far most popular Democrat in the country (in May of this year, 91% of Democrats rated Obama's Presidency as either good or excellent). That should end well.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:25 PM
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We can bring up how lackluster and overall shit Obamacare was. ....
Which was 1000% better than any previous plan and was hamstringed at every part and month by the GOP, who named it Obamacare.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:29 PM
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Let's talk substance.

M4A, .... Even despite everything being used against he still came out on top with his policies such as M4A being ran on in later elections...
Bernies Sanders "M4A" plan has nothing whatsoever to do with medicare and his calling his stupid plan "Medicare for all" and thus poisoning the well for real, and possible M4A plans is one reason I dislike him.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:36 PM
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Don't fall for this click bait pot stirring. Obama hasn't done anything at all. These are second hand reports of private conversations. Even if true, it's not a "bad move".
Two of us read the link, at any rate.
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Old 12-03-2019, 08:44 PM
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That crazy Barack Obama, always wanting his side to win.

Normally, I'd use this opportunity to snarkilly say that you should ignore him and nominate the 80 year old socialist who just had a heart attack. But I actually want Trump gone if the other side's candidate is at all palatable. And sorry, but Bernie can't win.
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:26 PM
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Bernie probably can't win, although I would like to see him literally kill Trump in a debate.
Read the link. Obama didn't say that. Some aides said things like, "I think maybe he might talk about not letting Sanders be the candidate. Perhaps."
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:32 PM
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That crazy Barack Obama, always wanting his side to win.

Normally, I'd use this opportunity to snarkilly say that you should ignore him and nominate the 80 year old socialist who just had a heart attack. But I actually want Trump gone if the other side's candidate is at all palatable. And sorry, but Bernie can't win.
When he wins are you going to come back and admit you were wrong.
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Old 12-03-2019, 10:41 PM
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When he wins are you going to come back and admit you were wrong.
If he does, it'll be pretty hard to deny we were wrong. There's a possibility some newspapers might cover the event or something.

But he won't.

He. Couldn't. Beat. Clinton.

Last edited by TimeWinder; 12-03-2019 at 10:42 PM.
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Old 12-05-2019, 05:11 PM
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If he does, it'll be pretty hard to deny we were wrong. There's a possibility some newspapers might cover the event or something.

But he won't.

He. Couldn't. Beat. Clinton.
And you're positing that Biden will have as much or more actual support as Hillary Clinton? Do you think he excites anyone? Does Joe Biden excite anyone?
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Old 12-05-2019, 06:19 PM
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When he wins are you going to come back and admit you were wrong.
If Bernie Sanders becomes President, I will come back here and personally tell everyone that I know nothing about politics and you are a super-genius.

Now, what will you do if he doesn't become president?
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Old 12-05-2019, 06:42 PM
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And you're positing that Biden will have as much or more actual support as Hillary Clinton? Do you think he excites anyone? Does Joe Biden excite anyone?
Maybe "exciting" isn't what people are voting for.
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Old 12-05-2019, 07:52 PM
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And you're positing that Biden will have as much or more actual support as Hillary Clinton? Do you think he excites anyone? Does Joe Biden excite anyone?
Exciting that people who voted for Trump and realize that he is a bully and a crook may be able to vote for Biden, and not able to vote for a woman or a person of color.
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Old 12-05-2019, 07:54 PM
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He. Couldn't. Beat. Clinton.
I don't understand your comment. Clinton won the popular vote. She was/is very popular.
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Old 12-05-2019, 08:04 PM
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And you're positing that Biden will have as much or more actual support as Hillary Clinton? Do you think he excites anyone? Does Joe Biden excite anyone?
Excite? Maybe not.

But lots of people like Joe Biden.
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Old 12-05-2019, 08:05 PM
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I am reminded of that line from The Art of War: "Victorious warriors win first, then go to war. Defeated warriors go to war first, then seek to win."

Bernie has kind of already won. The Dem primary debate is mostly about how much of a Bernie to be. Even if he doesn't get the nom, his influence over the platform won't go away.
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Old 12-05-2019, 08:06 PM
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If Bernie Sanders becomes President, I will come back here and personally tell everyone that I know nothing about politics and you are a super-genius.

Now, what will you do if he doesn't become president?
I'll hold you to this.

If he doesn't become President I'll vote independent for rest of my life.
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Old 12-05-2019, 08:19 PM
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If he doesn't become President I'll vote independent for rest of my life.
So you're as much a Democrat as Sanders.
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Old 12-05-2019, 08:34 PM
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Hey, how 'bout all us Democrats get together and re-elect Trump by splitting our vote and sniping at our fellow Dems?

Bottom line should be that no matter who the Dems choose as the nominee, we turn out 100% for the nominee. Period.

Two term Trump is just something democracy can't risk.
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Old 12-05-2019, 10:37 PM
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I'll hold you to this.

If he doesn't become President I'll vote independent for rest of my life.
And Democrats will continue to not give a shit about your opinion. See how that works?
  #46  
Old 12-05-2019, 10:41 PM
Barack Obama is offline
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Originally Posted by Chisquirrel View Post
And Democrats will continue to not give a shit about your opinion. See how that works?
and thats why you lost a thousand seats.
  #47  
Old 12-05-2019, 10:43 PM
Barack Obama is offline
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Originally Posted by River Hippie View Post
Hey, how 'bout all us Democrats get together and re-elect Trump by splitting our vote and sniping at our fellow Dems?

Bottom line should be that no matter who the Dems choose as the nominee, we turn out 100% for the nominee. Period.

Two term Trump is just something democracy can't risk.
Trump is the consequence of a incompetent corporate Democratic party, and the 40+ year olds who vote weak candidates into office.
  #48  
Old 12-05-2019, 10:47 PM
Chisquirrel is offline
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Originally Posted by Barack Obama View Post
and thats why you lost a thousand seats.
And that's why Bernie lost to Clinton. And is losing again.

You're demanding that people who disagree with you admit they were wrong if you're proven correct. Instead of agreeing to follow suit, you instead threaten to take your ball and go home if you're wrong.

Again, why should I, or the Democratic Party, care what an unfaithful "ally" cares about? If your only response to not getting everything YOU want, you whinge and cry, instead of figuring out how to get at least SOMETHING.

I would wager I want a majority of the things you do. I just refuse to deify an old white dude to get it, and that upsets you. So you rant and rave and complain about the very system your Chosen One is attempting to abuse to gain power. I point out it's a ridiculous assumption that Democrats should blindly support an Independent attempting to subvert a political party to his hunger for power. You continue to complain.

And we both get Trump. Thanks for that.
  #49  
Old 12-06-2019, 02:11 AM
TimeWinder is offline
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Originally Posted by carnivorousplant View Post
I don't understand your comment. Clinton won the popular vote. She was/is very popular.
And she couldn't win. How is Bernie, who didn't even come close to her votes in the primary, supposed to do it?
  #50  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:40 AM
Heffalump and Roo is offline
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Originally Posted by ISiddiqui View Post
I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking that. The other amusing thing was, ok, go ahead and try to go toe-to-toe with the by far most popular Democrat in the country (in May of this year, 91% of Democrats rated Obama's Presidency as either good or excellent). That should end well.
Could I get a cite for that? I tried looking for it and only found this: Obama's First Retrospective Job Approval Rating Is 63% from Feb. 2018. In that poll, Obama is 1% ahead of Bill Clinton.

If his Democratic approval rating is that high, the rest of the country must have rated him very low for the overall number to balance out like that. Either that, or the polls differed a lot. It could be that the methodology differed a lot as well.
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