View Poll Results: When did you decide Trump needed to be impeached?
Before Trump got elected 21 16.80%
After Trump was elected, but before he was inaugurated 7 5.60%
After the news of Russian interference in election 33 26.40%
After news of the Ukraine quid pro quo 23 18.40%
Some time in between the Russia and Ukraine incidents 15 12.00%
Some other scandal of Trump's entirely 9 7.20%
I don't want Trump impeached 17 13.60%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 12-10-2019, 10:49 PM
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When did you feel Trump needed to be impeached?


I get the impression that many Democrats actually already wanted Trump impeached before he ever took office, but were waiting for him to commit the appropriate crime/misdeed for him to be charged.

FTR, I'm onboard with impeachment and would prefer Pence be president.
  #2  
Old 12-10-2019, 10:58 PM
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I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking when did I believe there was sufficient evidence that articles of impeachment should be drafted, approved, and sent to the Senate?

Or when I felt that the best outcome for the nation would be his impeachment and removal?

Or when I felt it likely that he had committed acts that warranted impeachment, even if the evidence for those facts hadn't been discovered/reported/verified?

For the first, Ukraine. For the second, the night he was elected. For the third, the Mueller investigation along with the Cohen hush-money payments.
  #3  
Old 12-10-2019, 11:13 PM
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I'm not sure I understand the question............

...Or when I felt that the best outcome for the nation would be his impeachment and removal?
This, more or less. I am asking when Dopers wanted Trump to be impeached. Which does not require Trump to have actually yet done something that needed impeaching.
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Old 12-10-2019, 11:17 PM
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I don’t think impeachment is a good idea.
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Old 12-10-2019, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
...Or when I felt that the best outcome for the nation would be his impeachment and removal?
This, more or less. I am asking when Dopers wanted Trump to be impeached. Which does not require Trump to have actually yet done something that needed impeaching.
This is still ambiguous. A most likely outcome now is impeachment WITHOUT removal. There's a widespread belief this will HELP Trump politically. Many Democrats pushed for impeachment out of duty to the law, knowing it is likely to backfire politically.
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Old 12-11-2019, 12:11 AM
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I just want him to die. As painfully and lingeringly as possible.

And then I want Pence to catch whatever he had.

No Republican should ever hold a position of public trust again.

ETA: And I think this should have been a public poll (as all of them should be).

Last edited by kaylasdad99; 12-11-2019 at 12:13 AM.
  #7  
Old 12-11-2019, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Jas09 View Post
I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking when did I believe there was sufficient evidence that articles of impeachment should be drafted, approved, and sent to the Senate?

Or when I felt that the best outcome for the nation would be his impeachment and removal?

Or when I felt it likely that he had committed acts that warranted impeachment, even if the evidence for those facts hadn't been discovered/reported/verified?

For the first, Ukraine. For the second, the night he was elected. For the third, the Mueller investigation along with the Cohen hush-money payments.
This, exactly. I voted “Ukraine quid pro quo,” because I assumed the OP had the first question in mind.

After reading the OP’s clarification, obviously I would change my vote in this poll, if I could. The OP might want to ask this thread to be closed, and start over.

Last edited by JKellyMap; 12-11-2019 at 06:24 AM.
  #8  
Old 12-11-2019, 06:45 AM
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The moment when he fired Jim Comey, they should have started up drawing articles of impeachment and as soon as he admitted to it on the ABC interview, they should have started hearings. I don't care if it never would have passed, you can impeach a president multiple times.
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Old 12-11-2019, 08:15 AM
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The moment when he fired Jim Comey, they should have started up drawing articles of impeachment and as soon as he admitted to it on the ABC interview, they should have started hearings. I don't care if it never would have passed, you can impeach a president multiple times.
Nitpick, I believe you're referring to the Lester Holt interview on NBC. But I pretty much agree with this timeline. He fired Comey for a nefarious purpose, then a day later invited Russian agents into the Oval Office where no Americans were present and he spilled intelligence to them.
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Old 12-11-2019, 08:46 AM
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I am asking when Dopers wanted Trump to be impeached.
Why? Exactly value do you gain from learning when [a handful of] Dopers [who bother to answer your latest preloaded question] wanted Donald Trump to be impeached?
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Old 12-11-2019, 08:52 AM
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Why? Exactly value do you gain from learning when [a handful of] Dopers [who bother to answer your latest preloaded question] wanted Donald Trump to be impeached?
It's merely the latest of his serious enquiries seeking to ascertain exactly how partisan and corrupt Democrats are. It's important to ask these questions.

As to the question he asked: I wanted him to be impeached once there was sufficient evidence to do so.
  #12  
Old 12-11-2019, 09:19 AM
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This, more or less. I am asking when Dopers wanted Trump to be impeached. Which does not require Trump to have actually yet done something that needed impeaching.
Between conception and birth.

I acknowledge that this isn't fair and it's also not what I checked on your poll. "Impeached" lends itself to an interpretation of legitimate malfeasance (and sufficient evidence), so I ticked off "after Russian interference in the election became apparent", because I saw reason to believe that he had been a non-innocent non-bystander in that process.

Whereas what you seem to be asking is when did we want him to go away so we didn't have to experience him. That could be (/could have been) accomplished by a number of processes more appropriate than an impeachment, especially given

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity
I get the impression that many Democrats actually already wanted Trump impeached before he ever took office
Eons and eons before there was any notion that he was going to enter politics, I had developed a strong antipathy for the man and his way of being in the world.

I resent him breathing my air. He's wasting perfectly good oxygen.

But I have no illusion that my dislike for a person creates the authority or moral excuse to remove a person, lest there be any doubt on that matter.
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Old 12-11-2019, 09:25 AM
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I wanted Trump to resign from the moment he took office, but I didn't want him impeached until there was a combination of solid evidence plus some chance of public support (because I recognize a bogus impeachment would both backfire on the Democrats and have long-term consequences for the country). I think that point was reached sometime after the Mueller report but before the Ukraine thing became public.
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Old 12-11-2019, 09:42 AM
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I knew he needed to be impeached (if he won) during the debates: "Russia, if you're listening..."
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Old 12-11-2019, 09:48 AM
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I think you could've started drawing up the paperwork well before he was elected, just get it ready with a space available for entering the fine detail, that it would be needed was never really in doubt.

He is a sleazy scumball crook, a liar and a fantasist, a narcissist and a cheat. That was clear from even a cursory glance at his past. He was never going to change and his behaviour was never going to improve but the scope and scale of his misdeeds were only going to increase.
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  #16  
Old 12-11-2019, 09:56 AM
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Stupid question. You are asking a group of people who opposed his presidency “when did you not want him to be president?” Obviously the preference would be ASAP after inauguration. Just like all those who opposed Obama wished he could be removed from office the moment he took the oath.

Now if the question is “when was the right time to start impeachment, based on the evidence?” In my opinion, the Comey admission was an admission of guilt for obstruction of justice. That should have been enough. Add the Mueller report on top of that? Plenty of evidence of obstruction. And I disagree with Mueller’s conclusion that there was no evidence of collusion. The report itself details how polling data was shared between the Trump campaign and the Russians. That IS collusion with foreign govt to interfere.
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Old 12-11-2019, 10:06 AM
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I voted "between election and inauguration," but I would have preferred to vote "just after inauguration." To me, the emoluments clause seemed like quite a serious violation, which was present from day one. It wasn't impeachable before he was president, because you can't impeach a president-elect or a candidate. But on Day One, he was in deliberately violating the Constitution in a serious way that no other president had, and it was widely reported.
  #18  
Old 12-11-2019, 10:17 AM
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I donít think impeachment is a good idea.
Me neither.
  #19  
Old 12-11-2019, 11:05 AM
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I wanted Trump to resign from the moment he took office, but I didn't want him impeached until there was a combination of solid evidence plus some chance of public support (because I recognize a bogus impeachment would both backfire on the Democrats and have long-term consequences for the country). I think that point was reached sometime after the Mueller report but before the Ukraine thing became public.
Pretty much my thinking as well. Except, I think.even a solid impeachment such as what is happening will still be spun as bogus, and make Republicans say they are going to impeach the next Democratic president, just because they don't like them or the election result. But the Ukraine matter is too important not to do it.
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Old 12-11-2019, 11:11 AM
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The moment when he fired Jim Comey, they should have started up drawing articles of impeachment and as soon as he admitted to it on the ABC interview, they should have started hearings. I don't care if it never would have passed, you can impeach a president multiple times.
This. He's completely hobbled the protection of US elections against interference, due to his fragile ego, and the GOP has enabled him for a multitude of bad reasons.
  #21  
Old 12-11-2019, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 View Post
I just want him to die. As painfully and lingeringly as possible.

And then I want Pence to catch whatever he had.

No Republican should ever hold a position of public trust again.

ETA: And I think this should have been a public poll (as all of them should be).
While this is not technically against the rules, Iíd prefer not to see such things. It makes your soul all sticky.
  #22  
Old 12-11-2019, 11:59 AM
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I donít think impeachment is a good idea.
I agree with this.
  #23  
Old 12-11-2019, 12:11 PM
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I was watching the testimony the other day, and House Republicans were repeatedly making the point that Democrats have wanted to impeach Trump from the beginning. They could hardly contain their envy of the ability Democrats had of being able to see right through the well known con man, and of being familiar with his history prior to his electoral college victory.
  #24  
Old 12-11-2019, 12:16 PM
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As others have said, somewhat ambiguous. The Lester Holt interview was when I said "Aha, there he is clearly committing an impeachable offense in broad daylight!" But I knew long before he was elected that he was a crook, and the chance of him committing multiple impeachable offenses once in office was >>99.9%. So, if it had been remotely politically feasible, I would have advocated him being impeached pre-inauguration.
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Old 12-11-2019, 12:16 PM
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Before the inauguration I figured he would likely end up impeached, but at that time he hadn't done anything, so I wouldn't be behind a movement to impeach him. The first conduct I saw as impeachable was the firing of Comey for not interfering in the Flynn investigation, but at that point it was clear that this wasn't going to be enough to overcome partisanship, and so there wasn't much point. I'm not sure where this falls on your timeline so I answered between the Russia and Ukraine incidents. The Ukraine whistle blower was that first time that I supported the Democratic party going forward with impeachment hearings. On the grounds that if we don't hold him accountable for this, we won't be able to hold him accountable on anything.
  #26  
Old 12-11-2019, 12:24 PM
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I was watching the testimony the other day, and House Republicans were repeatedly making the point that Democrats have wanted to impeach Trump from the beginning. They could hardly contain their envy of the ability Democrats had of being able to see right through the well known con man, and of being familiar with his history prior to his electoral college victory.
This sounds like a defense attorney his client's mile long rap sheet is proof that he's innocent because the police are out to get him.

Last edited by Buck Godot; 12-11-2019 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 12-11-2019, 12:48 PM
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While this is not technically against the rules, Iíd prefer not to see such things. It makes your soul all sticky.
And then your soul spends eternity at the top of the Elections forum. It's not a pleasant fate.
  #28  
Old 12-11-2019, 02:25 PM
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February 20, 2017.
  #29  
Old 12-11-2019, 02:32 PM
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nm

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  #30  
Old 12-11-2019, 02:34 PM
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I donít think impeachment is a good idea.
Whether it's a good idea or not has no strong bearing on the oaths of office that everyone in Congress takes to uphold the Constitution.

A policeman might think, as an example, that the drug war is stupid. Nevertheless, he is duty bound to track down and arrest drug dealers.
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Old 12-11-2019, 02:37 PM
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I was hoping that faithless electors would prevent him from being elected.
  #32  
Old 12-11-2019, 02:41 PM
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We have rarely elected such an openly buffoonish, conceited and embarrassing President. I was shocked when the joke candidate started to win primaries.

In fairness, Harding was dumber but he put on a nicer more mature face at least.
Jackson was a bigger asshole and as conceited.
James Buchanan was as unqualified and probably worse for the time than Trump would have been.
Low bar, but Nixon was better and he resigned before being impeached.
Dick Cheney is more evil but had to work through his puppet at least who blocked some of Cheney's worst wallowing in his own crapulence.
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Old 12-11-2019, 02:56 PM
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It's ridiculous, and indicative of this board's bias, that almost 20% of the respondents said the President should have been impeached before the election.

That's not even possible.
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Old 12-11-2019, 02:59 PM
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It's ridiculous, and indicative of this board's bias, that almost 20% of the respondents said the President should have been impeached before the election.

That's not even possible.
More ridiculous that Trump and his marching morons calling for Clinton to be locked up without a trial?
  #35  
Old 12-11-2019, 03:00 PM
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It's ridiculous, and indicative of this board's bias, that almost 20% of the respondents said the President should have been impeached before the election.

That's not even possible.
I'm shocked to learn that.

My God, you mean that couldn't have been done? Or maybe, just maybe, we mean that he never should have been elected or even won the Primary. Trump is an embarrassment. An egotistical arrogant asshole. He in no way is like in his home area of the NY metro area. He shouldn't be liked by the religious right with his morals. He ducked military service. He is a buffoon and many of us knew his presidency was going to be a bad one.
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Old 12-11-2019, 03:35 PM
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It's ridiculous, and indicative of this board's bias, that almost 20% of the respondents said the President should have been impeached before the election.

That's not even possible.
"Lock her up!"
"Who's paying for the wall?" - "MEXICO!"
"The media is the enemy of the people"
- stating that a Judge can't be neutral because of his ancestry
- Grab em by the pussy "that's just locker room talk!"

GTFO with that "ridiculous" and "bias" nonsense. The right has surrendered any right to call anything ridiculous forever by supporting this insanity this long. Your side made your bed on this by completely abandoning objective reality for your head lunatic, so don't even try to act like the left is the side that is untethered to reality.
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  #37  
Old 12-11-2019, 03:44 PM
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Whether he deserves to be impeached and whether it is a wise strategy to do so are two very different questions.

I'm satisfied that he richly deserves to be impeached, but I do not think it is a wise strategy for the Dems. We all know that there simply are not enough votes in the Senate to remove him from office. As such, impeachment will accomplish nothing for the Dems, and perversely, may turn out to be a net positive for Trump. His supporters are well and truly pissed off about the whole deal. I think the Dems may see a large backlash that not only re-elects Trump, but carries the House on his coat tails.
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Old 12-11-2019, 03:48 PM
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At some point duty to the Constitution and to the country needs to take priority over strategy. Otherwise impeachment may as well be removed from the Constitution, as well as anything pertaining to oversight or checks and balances.

We are either a Constitutional Democratic Republic, or we are... something else...
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  #39  
Old 12-11-2019, 04:35 PM
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It's ridiculous, and indicative of this board's bias, that almost 20% of the respondents said the President should have been impeached before the election.

That's not even possible.
There were Republicans calling for Clinton's impeachment before she was not elected, the high crime being the security risk of her emails, which now pale in comparison to how Trump and his ass-lickers use their unsecured phones, including while in places like Ukraine.

At the time, any fool could see that Trump was corrupt and incompetent, (and he hasn't disappointed in that regard). Once he got elected, though, his ass-lickers have done their best to ignore and excuse it, and there just enough dupes in this country to fall for Trump's dog-and-pony show.

Americans are also fatuous enough to think that their electoral system is somehow perfect, and Trump's election proves that it isn't. It shows that someone who objectively has no good reason to be president can become president. But even the Framers knew that this could happen, so they built in impeachment. If a company hires someone (by some freakish accident) who is entirely unfit for a job, the sooner they can get rid of the person, the better. It's not about breaking low-level technical laws (which didn't even exist yet), and it's not about due process. It's very simple--we don't want a corrupt incompetent running our country.

It wouldn't be any different if the Electoral College put a habitual, unrelenting drunkard into the Oval Office. Alcoholism isn't illegal, but the sooner he's out, the better. The only bias here are the ass-licking Republicans who enable him, just because he's in their party.
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Old 12-11-2019, 05:36 PM
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Since his election, I think the best time to have impeached Trump was right after the Mueller report, on obstruction. That case is much stronger than anything in these articles. Plus they would have had time to go through the courts on contested subpoenas.
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Old 12-11-2019, 06:03 PM
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I just want him to die. As painfully and lingeringly as possible.

And then I want Pence to catch whatever he had.

No Republican should ever hold a position of public trust again.
From the Registration agreement:
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I realize that Trump (and Pence and much of the administration) is polarizing and many of us seem him as hateful.

However, we prefer that this not turn into hate board (or a board of feudists when Trump's supporters begin to reply in kind). Some of this might be acceptable in The BBQ Pit, but please keep it out of Great Debates, Elections, IMHO, etc.

[ /Moderating ]

Last edited by tomndebb; 12-11-2019 at 06:09 PM.
  #42  
Old 12-11-2019, 06:22 PM
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I voted "After the news of Russian interference in election", and I would say sometime in May 2017 (and the firing of James Comey) to July 2017 (and the publication of the infamous "This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its governmentís support for Mr. Trump" and "If it's what you say I love it especially later in the summer" e-mail exchange).

Before that, I despised Trump and did not want him to be President of the United States, but I think that time period is when I really started thinking "We need to impeach the motherfucker!" (as opposed to "We need an anti-Trump landslide on November 3, 2020!"). Although the whole long "Waiting for Mueller" debacle does also make it hard to pin down where on the timeline I personally flipped to "impeach the motherfucker, already!"--"With all we've heard already in public, God only knows what will be in the Mueller Report!"

So, pretty damned early in his administration (from "really not liking the POTUS" in January 2017--and really not liking the President-Elect all the way back to the night of November 8, 2016--to thinking that the POTUS is fundamentally criminal and disloyal to the country by May-July 2017).
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Old 12-11-2019, 06:39 PM
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I voted "I don't want Trump impeached" not because I voted for him but because there has been a campaign against him since he was a candidate. The Mueller Report shows how many people lied claiming he was a Russian Agent. The IG Report shows how the FBI lied to obtain a warrant on Carter Page. I'm still waiting for folks to go to jail over this because if this situation isn't corrected this democracy is doomed.
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Old 12-11-2019, 07:00 PM
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It's ridiculous, and indicative of this board's bias, that almost 20% of the respondents said the President should have been impeached before the election.

That's not even possible.
Prior to Election Day 2008, there was someone with a T-shirt, "Impeach Obama." Before Obama was elected.
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Old 12-11-2019, 07:48 PM
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... The Mueller Report shows how many people lied claiming he was a Russian Agent. ...
Russian "asset", and he is. The useful idiot type, to be charitable. Less than charitable, and it's worse.
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Old 12-11-2019, 08:11 PM
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I voted before he was elected because of at least "Russia if you're listening" and the not divesting himself of his business ties, which was going to be a minute-one emoluments violation. Politically, I know that wasn't the smartest idea or even a realistic one, but a bloviating moron with no appreciable skills or ANY experience in anything but cons was a walking impeachment since he came down that stupid escalator. It wasn't bitterness that my candidate lost (I didn't wish impeachment on the Bushes immediately, and Obama wasn't my '08 primary choice) or partisan. He had no business getting as far in the process as he did.
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Old 12-11-2019, 08:20 PM
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I voted "I don't want Trump impeached" not because I voted for him but because there has been a campaign against him since he was a candidate. The Mueller Report shows how many people lied claiming he was a Russian Agent. The IG Report shows how the FBI lied to obtain a warrant on Carter Page. I'm still waiting for folks to go to jail over this because if this situation isn't corrected this democracy is doomed.
Did you read the same reports as everybody else?
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Old 12-11-2019, 08:21 PM
kaylasdad99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What Exit? View Post
I'm shocked to learn that.

My God, you mean that couldn't have been done? Or maybe, just maybe, we mean that he never should have been elected or even won the Primary. Trump is an embarrassment. An egotistical arrogant asshole. He in no way is like in his home area of the NY metro area. He shouldn't be liked by the religious right with his morals. He ducked military service. He is a buffoon and many of us knew his presidency was going to be a bad one.
I was perfectly happy for him to win the nomination. BECAUSE IT DIDN'T MATTER TO ME WHO WAS ON THE BALLOT. NO REPUBLICAN SHOULD EVER WIN ANY ELECTION!
  #49  
Old 12-11-2019, 08:22 PM
kanicbird is offline
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Hearing about the requirement of a loyalty pledge that Trump requires of anyone he hires/appoints seemed like a immediate impeachable offense as those officers need to take a oath to serve the Constitution, so immediate conflict of interest, as Trump seems to be placing loyalty to himself over that of country - a violation of his oath of office. I would have liked that investigated but it was not. This would have been a impeachable offense as far as i am concerned and a hostel attempt to take over this country, a act of subversion and a traitorous act. I still wish that is brought forth.

Then the standard policy of separating children from their parents in a way, by not documenting it properly or at all, that the children may never return to their parents or to their native land as the records don't exist to establish where they came from and some of the children are to young to be able to know their home country. It is a atrocity, not to mention the inhumane circumstances and abuse including rape these children have to endure. That to is impeachable for the same reason that 'I was just following orders' was not a excuse for the Nuremberg trials. May we pay a price for this atrocity as is right and just by the international community.

Last edited by kanicbird; 12-11-2019 at 08:25 PM.
  #50  
Old 12-11-2019, 08:25 PM
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Aspenglow is offline
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My choice is not listed, so I ticked "Some other scandal..."

It was when he was sworn in and he accepted the oath of his office. He was in violation of that oath from that moment forward. As Fair Rarity points out, he never divested himself of his business ties. Whether people understand the term emoluments or not, it is in the Constitution for a reason: The potential for self-enrichment and abuse of office at the expense of our national security is immense. And that is exactly what we've seen.

I knew he should not occupy the Oval Office based on his past record of misogyny and racism.

I was horrified when the Republican party overlooked and even encouraged his birtherism lunacy.

I became truly frightened when he invoked, "Russia, if you're listening..." I knew then he was talking to them.

But I felt he should be impeached the moment he shat all over the oath of the office on January 20, 2017.
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