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Old 12-13-2019, 03:59 PM
Elendil's Heir is offline
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Who will be the next Labour Party leader in the UK? Who should be?


After Labour's losses yesterday, Jeremy Corbyn has announced he'll be stepping down. Who comes next? Who should?
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Old 12-13-2019, 04:02 PM
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Emily Thornberry.

Keir Starmer for Deputy PM or Finance Minister
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Old 12-13-2019, 04:06 PM
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Harriet Harman. Corbyn needs to resign immediately, not play his game of trying to get a new hard Marxist in as leader.
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Old 12-13-2019, 04:13 PM
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Would like to see Hilary Benn as the next leader but there's more chance of the Pope being the next Arsenal manager than that.
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Old 12-13-2019, 10:29 PM
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Could people be a little more specific as to why they believe someone will be, or should be, the next Labour leader?
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Old 12-14-2019, 02:45 AM
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if it wasn't for the 2nd Iraq war thing id say bring back tony Blair ....... just to bring in the moderates again

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Old 12-14-2019, 03:04 AM
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Whoever can lie the best and break the law the most stylishly. That seems to be what works for winning the public's hearts and minds in this country.
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Old 12-14-2019, 04:22 AM
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I’m guessing it will probably be a woman. Yvette Cooper would be the best choice if the party wants an experienced centrist. But it will probably be a Corbynista. Rebecca Long-Bailey is probably leading from that category.
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Old 12-14-2019, 06:30 AM
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I like Ang Rayner but I think she should keep her powder dry and build a centre left powerbase in the party - she's quite young in any case and I think the immediate leader needs to be an experienced parliamentarian. It's going to be a recriminatory war in the short term so really we're looking at a Kinnock or Smith figure to start the long march back to electability.

I understand the shouts for people like Keir Starmer just because it would be nice to see a grownup in charge. But look past that and it's a total non-starter for what the party needs right now - a London-based male technocrat is not going to unite a core vote that's been smashed to bits.
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Old 12-14-2019, 11:07 AM
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Yvette Cooper would be a bad choice - I live in her constituency, if Corbyn lost a lot of votes for being Corbyn, you have to understand that Cooper lost a lot of votes for being Cooper.

The thing that really cost her is that this constituency voter 70% to Leave, and she actively worked to block any prospect of a Leave deal, not only that, she worked very hard to prevent it and was very effective.

This is not to say that Leave was directly the issue so much the perceived arrogance that once she had our votes she felt free to work vocally against their wishes - its more the sense of complete loss of trust. Her best course of action would have been to stay quiet or abstain from Euro votes and cite her constituency wishes - but instead she stuck to the Remain agenda and her own local party hacks who also were not listening to the overwhelming majority.

I think she is one of the Labour outliers but provides a more extreme version of the symptoms of what took place elsewhere. She will not win her next election, if Labour wish to rebuild in this area she needs to resign - but she won't because despite it all she was returned - even with the second largest swing against a sitting MP in the country.

Whilst the swing in most areas was around 10% away from Labour, in this constituency it was 21% - there were many who voted Brexit party because they thought that the Tories didn't have a chance - next time there is a vote those disaffected Brexit voters will realise she can be unseated and willl vote Tory- Cooper will be toast.
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Old 12-14-2019, 12:23 PM
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Whoever can lie the best and break the law the most stylishly. That seems to be what works for winning the public's hearts and minds in this country.
Sadly I agree with this. (And it works in the USA as well. )
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Old 12-14-2019, 02:23 PM
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You'd think London's Mayor Sadiq Khan (I swear he's changed his name to that by deed poll) would be in the running, were it not for the slight hitch that he's not an MP. Khan is nakedly ambitious and was quick out of the blocks to remind everybody that Labour did well in London (or Sadiq Khan's London as it's known.)
Let's see, it's mayoral elections next year. Could he drop out, parachute into parliament and immediately become leader of the PLP? I guess not. Maybe the time after that, if Labour still exists as a major party.

Miliband senior also popped up to say "told you so, if only the party had a more Blairite leadership," but honestly I think there would have to be a split on the left and a whole New-New Labour party for that to happen.
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Old 12-14-2019, 02:38 PM
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I’d be fine with Khan or David Miliband. Anyone to get Labour back to common sense and far away from the Corbynista coup.

I suggested Harriet Harman as a consensus choice. It gets Labour a woman leader to get over that hump and I think she’d be fine as a caretaker leader while Labour returns to the wilderness. I can’t think of any major political party in the developed world that has been less successful than Labour. Blair has been their only success.

It’s time for the PLP to get nasty and purge the party yet again of the hard left Corbyn cult. Kinnock and Blair were a vacccine against those nut jobs but unfortunately the anti vaxxers let the diseases back in.
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Old 12-14-2019, 03:25 PM
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I can’t think of any major political party in the developed world that has been less successful than Labour. Blair has been their only success.
Yeah, such a shame that Atlee lost the 1945 election.

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Old 12-14-2019, 03:50 PM
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Yeah, such a shame that Atlee lost the 1945 election.
1945 was a damn long time ago and this isn’t post WW II. Not too many people alive that voted in that election.
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Old 12-14-2019, 04:06 PM
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Yvette Cooper would be a bad choice - I live in her constituency, if Corbyn lost a lot of votes for being Corbyn, you have to understand that Cooper lost a lot of votes for being Cooper.

The thing that really cost her is that this constituency voter 70% to Leave, and she actively worked to block any prospect of a Leave deal, not only that, she worked very hard to prevent it and was very effective.

This is not to say that Leave was directly the issue so much the perceived arrogance that once she had our votes she felt free to work vocally against their wishes - its more the sense of complete loss of trust. Her best course of action would have been to stay quiet or abstain from Euro votes and cite her constituency wishes - but instead she stuck to the Remain agenda and her own local party hacks who also were not listening to the overwhelming majority.

I think she is one of the Labour outliers but provides a more extreme version of the symptoms of what took place elsewhere. She will not win her next election, if Labour wish to rebuild in this area she needs to resign - but she won't because despite it all she was returned - even with the second largest swing against a sitting MP in the country.

Whilst the swing in most areas was around 10% away from Labour, in this constituency it was 21% - there were many who voted Brexit party because they thought that the Tories didn't have a chance - next time there is a vote those disaffected Brexit voters will realise she can be unseated and willl vote Tory- Cooper will be toast.
Thanks for the local perspective. If her constituency finds her unattractive in a strong Labour seat, then I agree she’s not the right candidate for a future party leader.
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Old 12-14-2019, 04:07 PM
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Dan Jarvis. He was re-elected to his seat in a heavy leave constituency despite personally being a remainer, has a solid background, and was shrewd enough to understand he had to support his constituents wanting to leave, is an experienced administrator and pragmatist and is someone who is going to get alot of respect from the heartlands we've just lost. Why he hasn't been considered before is beyond me. But with Corbyn project heavily discredited, anyone who was associated with it will lose the next general election.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Jarvis
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Old 12-14-2019, 04:12 PM
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I’d be fine with Khan or David Miliband. Anyone to get Labour back to common sense and far away from the Corbynista coup.

I suggested Harriet Harman as a consensus choice. It gets Labour a woman leader to get over that hump and I think she’d be fine as a caretaker leader while Labour returns to the wilderness. I can’t think of any major political party in the developed world that has been less successful than Labour. Blair has been their only success.

It’s time for the PLP to get nasty and purge the party yet again of the hard left Corbyn cult. Kinnock and Blair were a vacccine against those nut jobs but unfortunately the anti vaxxers let the diseases back in.
Harriet Harman is not popular enough. Rebecca Long Bailey, Emily Thornberry, Keir Starmer and Angela Rainer are all tainted by the legacy of Corbynism.
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Old 12-14-2019, 05:18 PM
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Dan Jarvis. He was re-elected to his seat in a heavy leave constituency despite personally being a remainer, has a solid background, and was shrewd enough to understand he had to support his constituents wanting to leave, is an experienced administrator and pragmatist and is someone who is going to get alot of respect from the heartlands we've just lost. Why he hasn't been considered before is beyond me. But with Corbyn project heavily discredited, anyone who was associated with it will lose the next general election.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Jarvis
I couldn't support someone like that who abdicates their reason and judgement to the fickle notions of the mob.

Nobody has yet explained to me why we should respect a majority vote for an opinion based on lies.
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Old 12-14-2019, 11:14 PM
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I couldn't support someone like that who abdicates their reason and judgement to the fickle notions of the mob....
https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/edmund_burke_166515
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:45 AM
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Exactly my point.
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Old 12-15-2019, 02:54 AM
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There's an apocryphal story about a senior Israeli Labor politician who, upon seeing the results of the 1977 election, in which Labor was defeated for the first time ever, said, "If that is the will of the people, then we need to replace the people." I see that attitude is still prevalent elsewhere.
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Old 12-15-2019, 03:02 AM
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There's an apocryphal story about a senior Israeli Labor politician who, upon seeing the results of the 1977 election, in which Labor was defeated for the first time ever, said, "If that is the will of the people, then we need to replace the people." I see that attitude is still prevalent elsewhere.
So what are we supposed to do about people believing obvious lies about the EU, the UK's relationship with it, and how trade negotiations and cross-border manufacturing works? And then when proven wrong, they double down and blame others? Indulge them? Give them the reigns of power?

Seriously, I cannot comprehend how we are supposed to be good little democrats in the face of complete fiction winning votes. This is different from simply differing philosophy winning. I've encountered that before, have lost, and have accepted it.

But now you seem to be suggesting that if people voted to declare human sacrifice legal because for each person killed a puppy appears, but those puppies haven't yet appeared because not enough have been sacrificed yet, that we should respect voters wishes and get on with the butchering.
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Old 12-15-2019, 03:13 AM
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No, I'm saying you should convince them. You should work to get the people on your side, tell them the truth and get them to believe it.
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Old 12-15-2019, 03:33 AM
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I couldn't support someone like that who abdicates their reason and judgement to the fickle notions of the mob.

Nobody has yet explained to me why we should respect a majority vote for an opinion based on lies.
Are you saying that being a Remainer should be a requirement for the next Labour leader? If not, what point are you trying to make?
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Old 12-15-2019, 03:49 AM
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No, I'm saying you should convince them. You should work to get the people on your side, tell them the truth and get them to believe it.
How do I convince them? I'm friends with some of them, and I've tried everything I can think of. But when presented with the absolute God's honest truth that the EU does not work the way they think it works, they choose to believe the lie.

Alessan: they refuse to be convinced.

Tell me what I'm doing wrong? Have you succeeded in changing anyone's mind in this area?
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Old 12-15-2019, 03:51 AM
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Are you saying that being a Remainer should be a requirement for the next Labour leader? If not, what point are you trying to make?
I think Labour cannot be re-elected by abandoning the socially liberal wing of its voters in pursuit of the old working class, who are now British Trumpers who have gone to the Tories. We are facing a realignment. The Tories are abandoning their historical fiscal conservatism to spend like mad (at least in rhetoric).
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Old 12-15-2019, 04:09 AM
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How do I convince them? I'm friends with some of them, and I've tried everything I can think of. But when presented with the absolute God's honest truth that the EU does not work the way they think it works, they choose to believe the lie.

Alessan: they refuse to be convinced.

Tell me what I'm doing wrong? Have you succeeded in changing anyone's mind in this area?
That's not your job, that's the job of political leaders: to communicate with people and bring them around to their point of view. You think you're at a disadvantage, because the other side lies? Then get a really good communicator. The Americans had Clinton and Obama; who do you have?
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Old 12-15-2019, 04:23 AM
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So what are we supposed to do about people believing obvious lies about the EU, the UK's relationship with it, and how trade negotiations and cross-border manufacturing works? And then when proven wrong, they double down and blame others? Indulge them? Give them the reigns of power?
Yes, You don't have a choice about that unless you are suggesting that some people's votes are worth more than others, or that you are magically able to discern exactly why people voted a certain way and so can discount them.

Every person on the losing side for ever and ever has lamented the fact that the opposition "lies" drowned out their own sides "reasoned fact". Nothing has changed and labour will be back in the fight when they have a better leader and a clearer and more palatable policy. Labour were down and out in the 80's and 90's until they weren't. Ditto for the Tories 97-2010. This too shall pass and the speed of the passing will be down to tory and labour competencies.
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Old 12-15-2019, 04:37 AM
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Everything has changed. Brexit is the world's biggest con, and those who voted for it have lapped it up, hoping for a return to a golden age and will get nothing but division and ruin.
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Old 12-15-2019, 04:40 AM
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How do I convince them? I'm friends with some of them, and I've tried everything I can think of. But when presented with the absolute God's honest truth that the EU does not work the way they think it works, they choose to believe the lie.
If someone has been run down by a car it may not be the best course of action to insist that
a) they are wrong
b) that they have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the ICE works

And if your posts here are in any way representative of the tone you take with your friends then you are going to find it difficult to convince and you might want to start from a position of "what might I be mistaken about? how do I know what I think I know?"
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Old 12-15-2019, 04:58 AM
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I think Labour cannot be re-elected by abandoning the socially liberal wing of its voters in pursuit of the old working class, who are now British Trumpers who have gone to the Tories. We are facing a realignment. The Tories are abandoning their historical fiscal conservatism to spend like mad (at least in rhetoric).
People who are actively socially liberal only make up a small percentage of the electorate. Tolerance, aka passive acceptance, is pretty high, but that’s not the same thing. The attitudes of most of the British public, in general, are small-c conservative. If Labour elects a leader whose only intention is to fire up the Momentum portion of the party and campaign for social liberal issues, then they’re effectively conceding the majority to the Tories.
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Old 12-15-2019, 05:02 AM
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If someone has been run down by a car it may not be the best course of action to insist that
a) they are wrong
b) that they have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the ICE works
What in the name of Jiminy Smits are you talking about?

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And if your posts here are in any way representative of the tone you take with your friends then you are going to find it difficult to convince and you might want to start from a position of "what might I be mistaken about? how do I know what I think I know?"
The tone is of exasperation at the close-mindedness of Brexiters. You haven't been exasperated before?

Humour me. If someone insists that the EU is the Fourth Reich, that the UK is dictated to by it with no democratic input, and that despite all known models of trade (JIT, non tariff barriers etc) the UK will somehow flourish outside the EU because reasons, and yet everything I've read up on proves this all to be complete snake oil, how do I communicate that if they refuse to listen and insist all evidence to the contrary of their view is suspect as being from EU-funded sources/the establishment?

You don't think you wouldn't get just ateensy weensy bit fed up with being polite to them? Especially when (and I've had this just to the other day) someone I know from school decided my retorts were all untrue because 'I don't live in the real world'?

Why is it all the accusations of living in a bubble/being arrogant/being a bad communicator are all on me, and they get given a complete pass, like they're the innocent victim and I'm the bad guy who deserves payback?
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Old 12-15-2019, 05:06 AM
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Everything has changed. Brexit is the world's biggest con, and those who voted for it have lapped it up, hoping for a return to a golden age and will get nothing but division and ruin.
Regarding the Labour leadership campaigning, that might be a good slogan for a no-chancer who simply wants their name in the news. Know anyone who fits that bill?
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Old 12-15-2019, 07:05 AM
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There's an apocryphal story about a senior Israeli Labor politician who, upon seeing the results of the 1977 election, in which Labor was defeated for the first time ever, said, "If that is the will of the people, then we need to replace the people." I see that attitude is still prevalent elsewhere.
That might be true, but it's distinctly reminiscent of Brecht's poem The Solution, about the June 1953 uprising in East Germany:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Lösung

</pedantry>
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:22 AM
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I couldn't support someone like that who abdicates their reason and judgement to the fickle notions of the mob.

Nobody has yet explained to me why we should respect a majority vote for an opinion based on lies.
Good luck with that pal, he's there to represent his constituents despite his personal position. The fact he has said on record he is a remainer but respected the vote pretty much ensured his survival in his constituency. If what you're advocating is him to retain his position and vote against the wishes of his constituents, well I know a whole host of MP's who lost their jobs arrogantly posturing themselves in that fashion and will now be in no position to do anything to mitigate the worst effects of it.
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Old 12-15-2019, 09:26 AM
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Last word on the brexit thing ():

I think it's the framing of any vote being a re-run that's the problem. I would agree with others that if the only reason for holding another vote is that the voters were misinformed, then pretty much every vote needs to be re-run forever.

But in fact there's another argument, in that for the initial referendum there were no bills going through parliament, and so it was unclear what brexit meant exactly, and it turned out there was a great deal of division over that. So we've had 3 years of chaos.
What should have happened next is a vote to pick exactly which flavor of brexit (and, yes, include a watered-down brexit in name only option), then the mandate is clearer and we really can just "get on with it".

I don't think it's going to happen now, as the public is weary of voting at this point.

Last edited by Mijin; 12-15-2019 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 12-15-2019, 09:47 AM
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It is very sad to see this, instead of Labour looking forward and accepting that their campaign and tactics failed, their supporters are still insisting that its the fault of everyone else.

I can understand that for those who convinced themselves of the rightness of their cause have suffered a real shock - but it it is symptomatic of just how disconnected those Labour supporters have become in their social media bubble of like minded.

Feeling sorry or accusational will not do it and is an abrogation of responsibility of any opposition party.

The job of Labour is to obtain power, it is the threat of success that keeps the administration in line. As long as Labour supporters think along the lines that some posters here are indicating then that will not happen, and democracy is being failed.

Labour supporters must understand - their worldview was not popular, did not attract support and the electorate did not buy it - blame anyone or anything and sit in a corner sulking, that's exactly what the Tories want and you are handing it to them - they can plan for the next election and the one after that, Labour cannot.

You are angry and upset - I get it, now think and persuade - no point in persuading people with a similar outlook, you need to change. Think of AA - first you have to acknowledge your problem and accept before you can gain the motivation to make a genuine change.

You need the political equivalent of the AA 12 step program.
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Old 12-15-2019, 11:43 AM
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The tone is of exasperation at the close-mindedness of Brexiters. You haven't been exasperated before?
I've been exasperated at both sides of the debate, frequently. Close-mindedness is not something purely on the side of Brexiters.

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Humour me. If someone insists that the EU is the Fourth Reich, that the UK is dictated to by it with no democratic input, and that despite all known models of trade (JIT, non tariff barriers etc) the UK will somehow flourish outside the EU because reasons, and yet everything I've read up on proves this all to be complete snake oil, how do I communicate that if they refuse to listen and insist all evidence to the contrary of their view is suspect as being from EU-funded sources/the establishment?
In any situation like that I ask people what evidence they have and try to understand why they think what they think. A key question is to ask what evidence could change their mind. That's usually a good indication of whether they are open to facts or not (and of course you have to aim the same question at yourself)

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You don't think you wouldn't get just ateensy weensy bit fed up with being polite to them? Especially when (and I've had this just to the other day) someone I know from school decided my retorts were all untrue because 'I don't live in the real world'?
I wouldn't seek to comment on a specific argument where I don't know what has been said and the tone in which it was said. If they are being inpolite or aggressive to you for no reason then I can understand why you'd do that back. I personally would not do that. I'd just say why I think what I think and leave it at that. Sometimes it is better to just let it drop, if the conversation is going nowhere it is better to let it drop and try another tack.

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Why is it all the accusations of living in a bubble/being arrogant/being a bad communicator are all on me, and they get given a complete pass, like they're the innocent victim and I'm the bad guy who deserves payback?
Who said anything about innocent/good/bad or payback? It is true to say that telling people they are stupid/evil etc. is not usually an effective way of changing hearts and minds.
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Old 12-15-2019, 02:41 PM
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It is very sad to see this, instead of Labour looking forward and accepting that their campaign and tactics failed, their supporters are still insisting that its the fault of everyone else.

I can understand that for those who convinced themselves of the rightness of their cause have suffered a real shock - but it it is symptomatic of just how disconnected those Labour supporters have become in their social media bubble of like minded.

Feeling sorry or accusational will not do it and is an abrogation of responsibility of any opposition party.

The job of Labour is to obtain power, it is the threat of success that keeps the administration in line. As long as Labour supporters think along the lines that some posters here are indicating then that will not happen, and democracy is being failed.

Labour supporters must understand - their worldview was not popular, did not attract support and the electorate did not buy it - blame anyone or anything and sit in a corner sulking, that's exactly what the Tories want and you are handing it to them - they can plan for the next election and the one after that, Labour cannot.

You are angry and upset - I get it, now think and persuade - no point in persuading people with a similar outlook, you need to change. Think of AA - first you have to acknowledge your problem and accept before you can gain the motivation to make a genuine change.

You need the political equivalent of the AA 12 step program.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. I know people who put their heart and soul into this campaign for Labour, leafleting in the cold and rain day after day.

But Labour didn’t lose because of the biased right wing Tory media or because the polls were rigged against Corbyn or whatever. Labour got their ass kicked, this wasn’t a football game lost on a bad call. Many voters cast their vote against Corbyn. Johnson may be a buffoon but the Tories can boot him out at leisure after Brexit if they want. There is no cult of Boris like there was around Jeremy.

At the very least, Labour needs a harsher version of Neil Kinnock that will tell the Labour fringe to go fuck themselves. Corbyn and his cronies did a lot of damage to Labour behind the scenes in order to purge the party of every last Blairite. They need to be invited back with open arms.
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  #41  
Old 12-15-2019, 03:41 PM
Malden Capell is offline
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Good luck with that pal, he's there to represent his constituents despite his personal position. The fact he has said on record he is a remainer but respected the vote pretty much ensured his survival in his constituency. If what you're advocating is him to retain his position and vote against the wishes of his constituents, well I know a whole host of MP's who lost their jobs arrogantly posturing themselves in that fashion and will now be in no position to do anything to mitigate the worst effects of it.
His job is to represent everyone in his constituency, not just those who voted for him. FPTP means that the pro-Remain majority, split across multiple parties, loses to the united minority.
  #42  
Old 12-15-2019, 03:44 PM
Malden Capell is offline
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It is very sad to see this, instead of Labour looking forward and accepting that their campaign and tactics failed, their supporters are still insisting that its the fault of everyone else.
I'm not Labour. I voted tactically.

And it's not rightness, it's fact that there is no good side to Brexit. You might as well suggest we craven towards climate change deniers if they won a referendum.

There's plenty of valid criticism to be made of Labour and Corbyn, but this country even now is still Remainer. FPTP did us in.
  #43  
Old 12-15-2019, 05:43 PM
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And it's not rightness, it's fact that there is no good side to Brexit.
And there is your problem in a nutshell, such an absolutist position means that you are starting from a mental position that anyone taking the opposite view must be an idiot or actively malign. That just isn't the case. There are plenty of intelligent and thoughtful people on all sides who believe, for perfectly valid reasons, that the UK is better off leaving the EU.

You aren't wrong to feel so dissappointed but you are horrendously shortsighted to imagine yours is the only possible valid view.

Your position is not a "fact" in any manner of meaning that I'm familiar with. It is far too complex an issue to boil down to a certainty one way or another. It is impossible to know, beyond the immediate horizon, whether the UK will ultimately end up being better or worse off after leaving the E.U. Not least because "better off" and "worse off" are not universally defined or agreed.

I once turned down a promotion that meant I was far worse off financially and in terms of career advancement. I don't regret it for a second because I ended up with greater freedom in terms of family time and job satisfaction.

Democracy means having the abilty to choose incorrectly. I wanted us to remain and strongly act to change the direction of travel. I suspect in the future that may still happen, heck, by us leaving we may even bring about the change that leaves the EU as an organisation we may want to be a part of. I don't know, nor do you, nor does Europe.
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  #44  
Old 12-15-2019, 05:44 PM
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this country even now is still Remainer. FPTP did us in.
on what do you base this assertion?
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  #45  
Old 12-15-2019, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Malden Capell View Post
His job is to represent everyone in his constituency, not just those who voted for him. FPTP means that the pro-Remain majority, split across multiple parties, loses to the united minority.
Except that the popular vote didn't show a pro-Remain majority, did it?

The Tories were clear Leavers: leave based on the withdrawal agreement: 43.6%.

Labor was sorta-kinda-wishy-washy Leavers: re-negotiate the Withdrawal Agreement, then hold a second referendum, with the Labour Party leader not taking a position on the most important issue in a generation. Wishy-washy-sorta-kinda nonetheless got 32.1%.

The SNP and Lib-Dems campaigned for Remain and got just over 15% combined.

That's not a problem with FPTP. If anything, it's a problem with a gutless Labour leader who refused to take a position on the most important issue in a generation, but even so got a third of the vote, tending to Leave.
  #46  
Old 12-16-2019, 01:58 AM
Lantern is online now
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I don't know much about the various contenders but I have been reading their bios and watching some videos. Overall Keir Starmer seems like a solid choice and the rest seem pretty unimpressive.

For example Rebecca Long Bailey seems to be a leading contender but I honestly can't figure out why. She is young and inexperienced and also comes off as thoroughly mediocre, more middle management than a potential prime minister, e.g. check out this interview.
  #47  
Old 12-16-2019, 02:32 AM
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I don't know much about the various contenders but I have been reading their bios and watching some videos. Overall Keir Starmer seems like a solid choice and the rest seem pretty unimpressive.

For example Rebecca Long Bailey seems to be a leading contender but I honestly can't figure out why. She is young and inexperienced and also comes off as thoroughly mediocre, more middle management than a potential prime minister, e.g. check out this interview.
She's the favourite of the current leadership. She would be a straight continuation of the Corbyn project. They will try to ensure she gets elected as leader because that somehow will prove that they were right after all.
If labour has any sense they'll avoid her like the plague.
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  #48  
Old 12-16-2019, 05:49 AM
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For those not already familiar with the details, here are some thumbnail sketches of the possible contenders:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ers-and-riders
  #49  
Old 12-16-2019, 07:45 AM
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For example Rebecca Long Bailey seems to be a leading contender but I honestly can't figure out why. She is young and inexperienced and also comes off as thoroughly mediocre, more middle management than a potential prime minister,
Every time I have seen her in an interview, I am reminded of a hair-dryer turned to full blast. If Labour choose a Corbynite like Long-Bailey or Rainer they are destined to be in the wilderness for another 10 years.
  #50  
Old 12-16-2019, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Busy Scissors View Post
It's going to be a recriminatory war in the short term so really we're looking at a Kinnock or Smith figure to start the long march back to electability.

I understand the shouts for people like Keir Starmer just because it would be nice to see a grownup in charge. But look past that and it's a total non-starter for what the party needs right now - a London-based male technocrat is not going to unite a core vote that's been smashed to bits.
Labour have such a long, hard climb back to power that a transitional figure like Starmer, in the Kinnock role, clearing out the extremists, might be just what they need.

Lisa Nandy was very impressive on Andrew Marr yesterday. I could see her becoming leader of the Labour Party. Jess Phillips is appealing too. They are both near the middle of their party and could unify the two wings.

I hate the idea of yielding any power to the right-wing press but choosing someone less obviously mockable in The Sun and the Daily Mail than Corbyn would be a plus. Both Nandy and and Phillips pass that test. Not sure if Starmer does.
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