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  #51  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:13 AM
Acsenray is offline
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Originally Posted by FlikTheBlue View Post
My mistake on one thing on the above list. I should have given credit for the end of Vietnam to Ford rather than Nixon. None the less I think Nixon did accomplish several things which those of us on the left would point to as great accomplishments had they been done by a Democrat.
I should think that no one would want credit for any part of our involvement in the Vietnam War, be it beginning, middle, or end.
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  #52  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:19 AM
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Tidbit on Ronald Reagan:

Just found out that while watching the movie 1983 "War Games" Reagan grew so concerned about the movies concept of a hacker breaking into the defense departments computers the next day he asked his defense secretary to look into it. He did and quickly reported back that it was indeed a problem (partially because the US had been hacking other countries computers) and Reagan soon signed legislation protecting the nations computer systems.
  #53  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Crane View Post
Hmmm...most politically talented - setting aside politics

1. LBJ - The most politically astute in affairs of office
2. Nixon - Similar to LBJ in office
3. Truman - unpopular incumbent who beat Dewey
4. Obama, Clinton, JFK - experts at the art of the political campaign
5. HW Bush - Politically skilled - the best choice for the Reagan reconstruction
6. Ike - an astute, moderate politician (but I voted for Stevenson)
7. Reagan, W Bush - inept objects who fronted for the establishment
8. Carter - an honest man and an inept politician
9. Ford - largely apolitical
10, In a normal distribution there will be rare cases that fall outside the 3 sigma points. They are statistical outliers that are best removed from consideration because they pollute the data. Such a one is Trump.
I'm just going to copy this and sign my name to it, since I agree with both the rankings and the concise rationales.

That said, I'd probably put Reagan just above rather than equal with W on the basis of Reagan's greater charisma and communication skills, but I agree that both Reagan and W coasted on their folksy charm while corrupt individuals in their administrations actually ran things (and screwed them up royally).
  #54  
Old 01-15-2020, 11:43 AM
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If you combine the two aspects of campaigning and governing, then Reagan was the most talented. He understood the office of the presidency and how to leverage its power better than any politician since FDR. The 1986 tax reform was a towering achievement in a second term that only someone as talented as Reagan could have achieved.
  #55  
Old 01-15-2020, 12:28 PM
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If you combine the two aspects of campaigning and governing, then Reagan was the most talented. He understood the office of the presidency and how to leverage its power better than any politician since FDR. The 1986 tax reform was a towering achievement in a second term that only someone as talented as Reagan could have achieved.
However, prior to Trump Reagan held the record for most members of his administration indicted. That's not a sign of great governing.
  #56  
Old 01-15-2020, 12:42 PM
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Going that route, toss in Washington, Jackson, and WH Harrison. Those are the six whose prior government job title was General. But Tramp never held ANY government position, civilian or military - he's the only one.
No, all three of them had held elected offices before becoming President. Washington had been elected for several terms in the Virginia legislature. Jackson and Harrison had both been Senators.
  #57  
Old 01-22-2020, 12:55 PM
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As I mentioned, LBJ benefited greatly from goodwill following JFK's assassination. He started his presidency with an 80% approval rating and only a 5% disapproval rating. He also presided during a 26 year stretch in which Democrats had a stranglehold on the House and Senate.

Nonetheless, despite all that wind at his back, his approval ratings plummeted steadily and his disapproval rose, leading him to decline to run for another term rather than almost certainly lose. In his last year his approval rating was in the 30's and his disapproval over 50%. Both recovered slightly after he announced he wouldn't run.

So how exactly was he so great? He was a decent wheeler-dealer in backrooms, but as a retail politician he sucked.
LBJ "lost" approval ratings due to Vietnam, not the rest of his policies (I will note that his pushing Civil Rights/Voting Rights Acts probably cost him Southern support)
  #58  
Old 01-22-2020, 01:03 PM
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why is everyone ignoring Bush 2 mishandling Hurricane Katrina?
  #59  
Old 01-22-2020, 04:32 PM
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You think Trump is a great orator? Better than Obama? Ridiculous. Obama and Kennedy are clearly 1 & 2, in some order, probably Eisenhower third because seems like everybody likes Ike.
  #60  
Old 01-22-2020, 04:44 PM
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Interesting how people define politically talented in totally different ways. Some seem to define it as getting things done in spite of how much of the country feels about you. LBJ was great at that, super effective, but I wouldn’t call it politically effective. I assumed it was about winning people over to your side who are not predisposed to support you and ending up with the majority of people feeling like you accomplished good things with your time in office.

Carter would rank very low on that scale. Despite being a good man who did good things while in office, the general public sentiment was that he made the economy continue to worsen, so politically I consider him low on the list.

Trump is a complete fool who lies constantly and most of the country hates his guts. Bottom of the list.
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