Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:11 AM
Dale Sams is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,188

Mutants in Marvel Comics arn't the next step in evolution...


...they're cancer.

Think of humanity as a body and each person is a cell. If some of my cells can suddenly do wacky things that threaten the entire body. That's not evolution, its cancer.

Evolution is a result of environmental pressure. Mutants ARE the pressure not the result of pressure* and that's why humanity develops ways to stop mutants. Sentinels...etc..THAT'S a lot closer to evolution (because its a slow process that builds on itself) then some guy who can shoot beams out of his face standing next to a guy who can turn to steel.

*Mind you, that's in a micro-sense. Just looking at Earth. IF mutants are the result of some pressure we can't see, some galactic threat and humanity IS the cell and not the body...well...then now the human-mutant war is more akin to an auto-immune disorder.
  #2  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:26 AM
Dale Sams is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,188
Now if you want to argue that Earth is the body, humanity is a virus and mutants are anti-bodies, that's fine. Earth tried natural disasters and plagues and such and is getting pretty desperate to rid itself of humanity. Still puts all that "Homo Superior" bullshit to the sword.
  #3  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:26 AM
The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
...they're cancer.

Think of humanity as a body and each person is a cell. If some of my cells can suddenly do wacky things that threaten the entire body. That's not evolution, its cancer.
That’s kind of one-sided, isn’t it? The X-Men are mutants who (a) can do wacky things, and (b) save the lives of unmutated humans: rescuing people from a burning building, putting killers behind bars before they can strike again, and even stopping everything else from ‘catastrophic weather’ to ‘nuclear war’.
  #4  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:29 AM
naita is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 6,642
"Think of humanity as a body and each person is a cell."

Why would I do that? Of course you're not going to conclude that Mutants are the next step in evolution if you chose a simile completely unsuited to discussing evolution because it's tailored to the "cancer" position.

What would evolution look like if start by "thinking of humanity as a body and each person a cell"?

X-men type mutants in fantastic fiction are an extreme version of a layman's understanding of both mutations and evolution. They are much more "the next step in evolution" than they are cancer.

The Toxic Avenger mixes the two, but is still very much "the next step in evolution".
  #5  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:41 AM
Dale Sams is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,188
Quote:
Originally Posted by naita View Post
"Think of humanity as a body and each person is a cell."

Why would I do that? Of course you're not going to conclude that Mutants are the next step in evolution if you chose a simile completely unsuited to discussing evolution because it's tailored to the "cancer" position.

What would evolution look like if start by "thinking of humanity as a body and each person a cell"?

X-men type mutants in fantastic fiction are an extreme version of a layman's understanding of both mutations and evolution. They are much more "the next step in evolution" than they are cancer.

The Toxic Avenger mixes the two, but is still very much "the next step in evolution".
Wheres the ecological pressure to create millions of beings with wildly varying powers of which several can destroy the entire planet? That's not evolution.
  #6  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:50 AM
Dale Sams is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,188
By the way, if anyone here dropped X-Men comics a while back....you NEED to pick up Jonathan Hickmans brilliant new pair of X-Men 6 issue series. They just concluded and they set up the X-Men for the future.

If you've never read Hickman before....think of a sober, futurist Alan Moore.
  #7  
Old 10-10-2019, 09:52 AM
Just Asking Questions is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
That’s kind of one-sided, isn’t it? The X-Men are mutants who (a) can do wacky things, and (b) save the lives of unmutated humans: rescuing people from a burning building, putting killers behind bars before they can strike again, and even stopping everything else from ‘catastrophic weather’ to ‘nuclear war’.
Well, they can also start wars, destroy humanity, cause death and disaster on a global scale.

All in all, I'm glad I don't live in their world.
  #8  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:02 AM
The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions View Post
Well, they can also start wars, destroy humanity, cause death and disaster on a global scale.
But it makes the ‘cancer’ analogy so poor a fit. It’s more like if a doctor runs some tests and looks over my charts and tells me that I’ve developed some kind of growth, and when I panickedly interrupt to ask whether it’s terminal he explains that (a) it might not kill me, and (b) it’s already lowered my cholesterol from an unhealthy level to a healthy one, but (c) yeah, it may eventually kill me, though (d) it seems to have cured some other disease that, apparently, was about to kill me.

It has pros and cons, is my point; there’s maybe a cost-benefit analysis to be run, the way you wouldn’t usually react to a ‘cancer’ diagnosis.

Last edited by The Other Waldo Pepper; 10-10-2019 at 10:03 AM.
  #9  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:18 AM
Dale Sams is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,188
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
But it makes the ‘cancer’ analogy so poor a fit. It’s more like if a doctor runs some tests and looks over my charts and tells me that I’ve developed some kind of growth, and when I panickedly interrupt to ask whether it’s terminal he explains that (a) it might not kill me, and (b) it’s already lowered my cholesterol from an unhealthy level to a healthy one, but (c) yeah, it may eventually kill me, though (d) it seems to have cured some other disease that, apparently, was about to kill me.

It has pros and cons, is my point; there’s maybe a cost-benefit analysis to be run, the way you wouldn’t usually react to a ‘cancer’ diagnosis.
So...'tumor' then. Mutants are tumors. With weird possible benefits.
  #10  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:18 AM
Telemark's Avatar
Telemark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Just outside of Titletown
Posts: 22,989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
Wheres the ecological pressure to create millions of beings with wildly varying powers of which several can destroy the entire planet? That's not evolution.
Evolution doesn't have a goal, it just is. Now, do Marvel Mutants have a reproductive or survival advantage? That's the important part of evolution that you've left out.
  #11  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:35 AM
The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
So...'tumor' then. Mutants are tumors. With weird possible benefits.
But even that’s not a great analogy, because it’s so far outside normal experience. Like, at present, we refer to a tumor as ‘malignant’ or ‘benign’ — but when we say ‘benign’, we don’t really mean ‘beneficial’; we really just mean ‘not malignant’; we don’t, as a rule, talk about a given tumor as being a net positive: we don’t typically use ‘benign’, or any other term, to mean that in a ‘tumor’ context.

To say “tumor” is to already imply that it’s not a net benefit.

The metaphor has to be something that, upon hearing it, you’d say, well, that raises a question instead of answering one: is it a net positive, or a net negative? Even if, upon weighing the evidence, you wind up concluding it’s a net negative, you should still leave the other possibility open at the start. (Say, keeping a gun in the house: you can argue that it’s a net negative, and you may well be correct; but you’re not, from the beginning, impliedly ruling out the idea of a net positive.)

Last edited by The Other Waldo Pepper; 10-10-2019 at 10:37 AM.
  #12  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:45 AM
Dale Sams is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telemark View Post
Evolution doesn't have a goal, it just is. Now, do Marvel Mutants have a reproductive or survival advantage? That's the important part of evolution that you've left out.
All evidence thus far is a resounding 'no'*. But insanely small sample sizes and all that.

*Genosha, Decimation....etc...
  #13  
Old 10-10-2019, 10:58 AM
The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,752
How about . . . pharmaceuticals?

As in: they can cure what ails you; also, they can really mess you up. Heck, they can kill you! But some folks think they’re terrific, and pay lots of money to keep them on hand, because they’re so big a help when it comes to allergies or heart conditions or erectile dysfunction or whatever. But, granted, some other folks are quick to tell you about lives that were ruined because of the stuff. (And, of course, the same guy can make both points: maybe he knows an addict who died from an overdose, and maybe he also knows someone who’s only still alive thanks to their kidney pills.)
  #14  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:00 AM
Dale Sams is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,188
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
How about . . . pharmaceuticals?

As in: they can cure what ails you; also, they can really mess you up. Heck, they can kill you! But some folks think they’re terrific, and pay lots of money to keep them on hand, because they’re so big a help when it comes to allergies or heart conditions or erectile dysfunction or whatever. But, granted, some other folks are quick to tell you about lives that were ruined because of the stuff. (And, of course, the same guy can make both points: maybe he knows an addict who died from an overdose, and maybe he also knows someone who’s only still alive thanks to their kidney pills.)
Have you read Hickmans x-men? Pharmaceuticals have a significant plot-point.
  #15  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:03 AM
The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
Have you read Hickmans x-men? Pharmaceuticals have a significant plot-point.
Heh. No, I haven’t; I’m guessing he took that metaphor in a different direction?
  #16  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:11 AM
Dale Sams is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,188
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
Heh. No, I haven’t; I’m guessing he took that metaphor in a different direction?
Its not a terribly important part so I'll give it away. Mutants develop pharmaceuticals that have massive benefits for humans. They offer these in exchange for humans giving them....something...
  #17  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:22 AM
The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
Its not a terribly important part so I'll give it away. Mutants develop pharmaceuticals that have massive benefits for humans. They offer these in exchange for humans giving them....something...
Well, as long as we’re mentioning stuff like that, let me mention the double-edged sword that’s the mutant called Forge: he’s, uh, caused problems for humans. Also, he’s developed stuff that can be useful to humans (and, as you say, sometimes he’s offered it up in exchange for other stuff; and the benefits have prompted folks to make said trade). As I haven’t read Hickman’s run, I don’t know if Forge is the guy developing those pharmaceuticals; I do, though, figure you can put him in any such story and make it a question: does his mutation lead to more harm, or to more good? Is that mutant a net negative for humanity, or a net positive?

Even if the answer winds up being ‘negative’, the point is that it is a question.
  #18  
Old 10-10-2019, 12:37 PM
Kamino Neko's Avatar
Kamino Neko is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Alternate 230
Posts: 15,419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telemark View Post
Evolution doesn't have a goal
In the Marvel universe, it actually does...the Celestials guide it.

Mutants aren't really the 'next step' in the Celestials plan, but they are a part of it - they're the manifestation of Homo sapiens specific part in the plan. The Celestials created 3 human species - humans (Homo sapiens sapiens and H. s. superior), Deviants (H. descendus), and Eternals (H. immortalis), each with a different role of mutation - Deviants always mutate, Eternals never mutate - theoretically...the gene responsible for Deviant mutation can sneak into the Eternal line, resulting in Thanos - but have super powers inherently, and humans have the potential to have powers, but don't always express it (the possibility also expresses itself in non-Mutant superhumans).
  #19  
Old 10-10-2019, 01:37 PM
Kamino Neko's Avatar
Kamino Neko is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Alternate 230
Posts: 15,419
Quote:
Originally Posted by naita View Post
"Think of humanity as a body and each person is a cell."

Why would I do that? Of course you're not going to conclude that Mutants are the next step in evolution if you chose a simile completely unsuited to discussing evolution because it's tailored to the "cancer" position.
Also, the analogy is incoherent, as part of the problem with cancer is that the body doesn't attack it.

When the body attacks itself, that's not a sign that the attacked body part is dysfunctional, but that the immune system is.

If the anti-mutant forces are to be taken as the immune system, then humanity doesn't have cancer, it has rheumatoid arthritis or diabetes.
  #20  
Old 10-10-2019, 01:42 PM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm is offline
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 62,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamino Neko View Post
In the Marvel universe, it actually does...the Celestials guide it.
I was going to bring that up-thank you. "Mutant" when it comes to human development means something entirely different in the Marvel universe than it does here-Different Worlds, Different Rules.
  #21  
Old 10-10-2019, 03:17 PM
Dale Sams is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,188
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
Well, as long as we’re mentioning stuff like that, let me mention the double-edged sword that’s the mutant called Forge: he’s, uh, caused problems for humans. Also, he’s developed stuff that can be useful to humans (and, as you say, sometimes he’s offered it up in exchange for other stuff; and the benefits have prompted folks to make said trade). As I haven’t read Hickman’s run, I don’t know if Forge is the guy developing those pharmaceuticals; I do, though, figure you can put him in any such story and make it a question: does his mutation lead to more harm, or to more good? Is that mutant a net negative for humanity, or a net positive?

Even if the answer winds up being ‘negative’, the point is that it is a question.
Forge appears. Not the way you think. He's a tech guy, not a chemical guy.


On a slightly different note to all....I want to reiterate, if you stopped reading Marvel a while back....pick up Hickman's FF, Avengers and lately his 2 six issue series on X-Men. They're great.
  #22  
Old 10-10-2019, 03:50 PM
MrDibble's Avatar
MrDibble is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cape Town, South Africa &
Posts: 26,267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
Wheres the ecological pressure to create millions of beings with wildly varying powers of which several can destroy the entire planet?
Kree? Skrulls? Galactus? Celestials? Deviants? Seems like there's a shit-ton of environmental pressure on humanity to evolve superpower defences in that universe.
  #23  
Old 10-10-2019, 04:06 PM
The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
Forge appears. Not the way you think. He's a tech guy, not a chemical guy.


On a slightly different note to all....I want to reiterate, if you stopped reading Marvel a while back....pick up Hickman's FF, Avengers and lately his 2 six issue series on X-Men. They're great.
1) He’s a tech guy who can do ‘chemical guy’ stuff, right? I mean, yeah, usually he’s doing stuff with holograms or bionic limbs, and he famously rigs up scanning devices and neutralization gear so humans can combat supers, and he can maybe even get a time machine up and running; but, while it’s not his usual area, he’ll sometimes get into genetic engineering and weird biochemical effects, right?

2) You’re now the second person who’s recommended it to me — and the first one has never steered me wrong — so I’ll gladly take a look.
  #24  
Old 10-11-2019, 01:38 PM
bump is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 18,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telemark View Post
Evolution doesn't have a goal, it just is. Now, do Marvel Mutants have a reproductive or survival advantage? That's the important part of evolution that you've left out.
That's the real question- do their mutations get them or their children laid more often, let them impregnate women (or get impregnated) easier, or help them survive everyday life bette than others?

Last edited by bump; 10-11-2019 at 01:38 PM.
  #25  
Old 10-11-2019, 02:46 PM
Pleonast's Avatar
Pleonast is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Los 'Kamala'ngeles
Posts: 7,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by bump View Post
That's the real question- do their mutations get them or their children laid more often, let them impregnate women (or get impregnated) easier, or help them survive everyday life bette than others?
Yes, remember Issue :mumble: of the :mumble: Series with Mr Virile, Ms Fertile, and their teleporting gametes? Now those are superpowers with evolutionary potential!
  #26  
Old 10-11-2019, 09:38 PM
Dale Sams is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,188
Quote:
Originally Posted by bump View Post
That's the real question- do their mutations get them or their children laid more often, let them impregnate women (or get impregnated) easier, or help them survive everyday life bette than others?
In book it gets them hunted down and killed. A lot!!

What's not covered much or at all is how many mutants die to a harmful power manifesting* or a physical mutation that completely prevents them from even procreating.

*Like blood that can turn to acid. Super-strength that doesn't convey the slightest bit of invulnerability.
  #27  
Old 10-12-2019, 11:30 AM
bump is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 18,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
In book it gets them hunted down and killed. A lot!!

What's not covered much or at all is how many mutants die to a harmful power manifesting* or a physical mutation that completely prevents them from even procreating.

*Like blood that can turn to acid. Super-strength that doesn't convey the slightest bit of invulnerability.
So really traits that work against being passed along to the next generations relative to non-mutants.
  #28  
Old 10-13-2019, 05:23 PM
Stowed Bob is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
By the way, if anyone here dropped X-Men comics a while back....you NEED to pick up Jonathan Hickmans brilliant new pair of X-Men 6 issue series. They just concluded and they set up the X-Men for the future.
Unless he continues with the series, whatever he sets up will be thrown into the waste bin by the next writer who has their own ideas and vision. I cannot tell you how disappointed I was that after Grant Morrison did his run on New X-Men, Chuck Austen moved in to bungle everything up.

But that's always been the pitfall of comic books with rotating creators.
  #29  
Old 10-13-2019, 06:16 PM
Wesley Clark is offline
2018 Midterm Prediction Winner
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 22,367
I don't get the argument.

Mutants are superior in every way. Evolution selects for traits that enhance survival.
__________________
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to sparkle motion
  #30  
Old 10-13-2019, 08:58 PM
simster is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 11,321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Sams View Post
So...'tumor' then. Mutants are tumors. With weird possible benefits.
Pretty soon, you're going to say they are like onions, because they have layers and onions have layers....

or maybe a good parfait, cause everybody - mutant and muggle alike - likes a good parfait.
  #31  
Old 10-13-2019, 09:32 PM
Colibri's Avatar
Colibri is online now
SD Curator of Critters
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Panama
Posts: 43,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Clark View Post
Evolution selects for traits that enhance survival.
Wrong. Evolution selects for traits that enhance reproduction. It doesn't care if you survive indefinitely if you don't reproduce. And you can die young if you have enough offspring before that.
  #32  
Old 10-13-2019, 09:43 PM
Wesley Clark is offline
2018 Midterm Prediction Winner
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 22,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colibri View Post
Wrong. Evolution selects for traits that enhance reproduction. It doesn't care if you survive indefinitely if you don't reproduce. And you can die young if you have enough offspring before that.
two sides of the same coin. You survive long enough to reproduce, and you develop the tools that make it easier to build a society where you can reproduce.

Power leads to reproduction in many ways. There are only a handful of species of social insects, but due to the power they posses they make up the bulk of the insect biomass on earth. Humans have far more offspring than we did before technology because technology empowers us to survive, thrive and reproduce.

Gaining skills that translate into power leads to more survival and more reproduction. In the real world, over time mutants would take over the planet and probably become an interstellar species due to their powers like advanced intellect, teleportation, changing the fabric of space/time etc and they would number in the trillions eventually due to it.
__________________
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to sparkle motion

Last edited by Wesley Clark; 10-13-2019 at 09:47 PM.
  #33  
Old 10-13-2019, 10:11 PM
Colibri's Avatar
Colibri is online now
SD Curator of Critters
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Panama
Posts: 43,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Clark View Post
two sides of the same coin.
What percentage of mutants have produced any offspring at all? I read the original X-Men comics when I was a kid in the 1960s, but since then my only knowledge comes from the movies. My impression is that there are a few mutants that have offspring, but very very few. And their mortality rate is very much higher than ordinary humans, both through conflict with humans and among themselves. By all evidence, mutants are strongly selected against, both in terms of survival and reproduction. In evolutionary terms, although they are individually more powerful than humans, they are inferior in reproductive terms.

Another issue is to what extent the mutations are heritable. Are these traits dominant or recessive? If the latter, it will take them a long time to spread. And what happens when two mutants with wildly different powers reproduce?

Last edited by Colibri; 10-13-2019 at 10:12 PM.
  #34  
Old 10-13-2019, 10:33 PM
Dale Sams is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colibri View Post
What percentage of mutants have produced any offspring at all? I read the original X-Men comics when I was a kid in the 1960s, but since then my only knowledge comes from the movies. My impression is that there are a few mutants that have offspring, but very very few. And their mortality rate is very much higher than ordinary humans, both through conflict with humans and among themselves. By all evidence, mutants are strongly selected against, both in terms of survival and reproduction. In evolutionary terms, although they are individually more powerful than humans, they are inferior in reproductive terms.

Another issue is to what extent the mutations are heritable. Are these traits dominant or recessive? If the latter, it will take them a long time to spread. And what happens when two mutants with wildly different powers reproduce?
Well lets see....Cyclops and....Maddie...No wait, An alternate reality Jean Grey and Rachel and....oh fuck this

Ok, Wolverine...you know...nevermind.
  #35  
Old 10-13-2019, 10:48 PM
The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colibri View Post
What percentage of mutants have produced any offspring at all? I read the original X-Men comics when I was a kid in the 1960s, but since then my only knowledge comes from the movies. My impression is that there are a few mutants that have offspring, but very very few. And their mortality rate is very much higher than ordinary humans, both through conflict with humans and among themselves. By all evidence, mutants are strongly selected against, both in terms of survival and reproduction. In evolutionary terms, although they are individually more powerful than humans, they are inferior in reproductive terms.
Of course, if we’re going there, then consider, say, Banshee: yeah, he died, since he goes on plenty of comic-book adventures; but as I understand it, he then came back, because, again, comic book. And then, as I understand it, he was dead again but came back again; and then dead again and back again?

(Also, he fathered a kid at some point: he thought she was dead and gone, but it turned out that, heh, no, this is one of those stories where it turns out that she’s alive and well and standing right there, and with mutant powers of her own.)
  #36  
Old 10-13-2019, 10:51 PM
Colibri's Avatar
Colibri is online now
SD Curator of Critters
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Panama
Posts: 43,088
Yeah, I just tried to research this a little, and as always when I try to check comic character's backstories, I become hopelessly confused between alternate timelines, different dimensions, time travel, and simply contradictory stories. Honestly, this stuff makes War and Peace look straightforward.

Last edited by Colibri; 10-13-2019 at 10:53 PM.
  #37  
Old 10-13-2019, 11:05 PM
Kamino Neko's Avatar
Kamino Neko is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Alternate 230
Posts: 15,419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colibri View Post
Another issue is to what extent the mutations are heritable.
Simply being a Mutant is the inherited trait. Mutation in the Marvel Universe is the presence and activation of the X-Gene. I'm not sure of the current status quo, but in the 90s, it was canonical that specific mutations could not be inherited in toto, by definition - although kids frequently have some variation on one or both of their parents' mutation, there's usually some (usually small, mostly cosmetic) difference... Daken has claws and a healing factor, but his claws have a different arrangement than Wolverine's; Siryn has a sonic scream, but it has slightly different range of utility than Banshee's*; Nocturne** inherited Nightcrawler's physical mutations almost wholesale, but her tail is retractable, and she has almost completely unrelated powers; Rachel Grey/Summers** has time powers in addition to the telepathy and telekinesis she inherited from Jean (and got nothing from Scott); etc, etc, etc.

The X-gene seems to be eager to be passed down - I don't think that any Mutant has had a non-Mutant child.

* This was, IIRC, a retcon to bring her into agreement with the 'have to be different from their parents' thing, and her scream was initially identical to her dad's.
** Both are alternate universe children, but they demonstrate the principle.
  #38  
Old 10-14-2019, 08:22 AM
bump is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 18,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colibri View Post
In evolutionary terms, although they are individually more powerful than humans, they are inferior in reproductive terms.
Beyond that, most of their survival advantages are only really advantageous at the extremes in modern society. Maybe in caveman times they would have had advantages versus normal humans, but today, not so much.

It's all about having more children and having more of them survive to adulthood to have more children of their own. If a genetic trait enhances either of those things, then it's likely to be passed on and eventually become relatively common.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:39 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017