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  #3051  
Old 10-19-2019, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by enipla View Post
Republicans will try to impeach the next Democrat over a parking ticket. We know that. See the birther CT. We must understand that the GOP is struggling on it's last breath. The only way for them to survive is to reinvent themselves.

We must hold the rule of law. A truly despotic moronic treasonous President or other official must go. When your house is on fire, you don't worry about the smoke it creates.

If we don't rid our country of Trump, and his entire administration, our entire American experiment is done. Trump needs to be removed. Not with malice or opinions, but with the rule of law.
You said it better than I could.

To PhillyGuy, I would only add that if Republicans could actually accomplish jailing their opponents, they'd have already done it to Hillary Clinton, Andrew McCabe, James Comey, Pete Strzok, Lisa Page, James Clapper, John Brennan and a virtually endless list of others, during the period of time when they controlled all levers of power in the White House and Congress. They couldn't, because there is a predicate event to arrest: Probable cause that a crime has been committed.

I'll allow that Bill Barr is working at a feverish rate to pursue illegitimate arrests in his Quixotic quest to rewrite history re the origins of the Russia investigation, but there is significant push-back by sane people against what he's doing. I expect Barr to shortly endure more scrutiny of his perverse actions and motives.

enipla is right. If we abandon our foundational principle that we are a nation of laws and no man (or woman) is above them, then justice requires for those who break the law to be prosecuted for their misdeeds. Trump is a seething, writhing mass of illegality. To ignore this truth would be... criminal.
  #3052  
Old 10-19-2019, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Aspenglow View Post
You said it better than I could.

To PhillyGuy, I would only add that if Republicans could actually accomplish jailing their opponents, they'd have already done it to Hillary Clinton, Andrew McCabe, James Comey, Pete Strzok, Lisa Page, James Clapper, John Brennan and a virtually endless list of others, during the period of time when they controlled all levers of power in the White House and Congress. They couldn't, because there is a predicate event to arrest: Probable cause that a crime has been committed.

I'll allow that Bill Barr is working at a feverish rate to pursue illegitimate arrests in his Quixotic quest to rewrite history re the origins of the Russia investigation, but there is significant push-back by sane people against what he's doing. I expect Barr to shortly endure more scrutiny of his perverse actions and motives.

enipla is right. If we abandon our foundational principle that we are a nation of laws and no man (or woman) is above them, then justice requires for those who break the law to be prosecuted for their misdeeds. Trump is a seething, writhing mass of illegality. To ignore this truth would be... criminal.
My understanding of Phillyguy's point is that we should not prosecute Trump for the crimes that he has committed, because if we do, then the republicans will lie and fabricate in order to frame democrats.

The problem with this logic is that the republicans have been doing that for years now, so it's not really a threat. OTOH, they like to claim that democratic prosecution of republican crimes is just retaliation for their failed attempts. There are still republicans that consider Jacob Wohl to be a reliable source, and that someone like Robert Mueller has no more credibility than their hatchetman.

If there are democrats out there committing crimes, (and I'm sure that some do) by all means, prosecute them. I don't want to be represented by criminals. But don't threaten to prosecute criminals as some sort of political theater.

Last edited by k9bfriender; 10-19-2019 at 02:09 PM.
  #3053  
Old 10-19-2019, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
My understanding of Phillyguy's point is that we should not prosecute Trump for the crimes that he has committed, because if we do, then the republicans will lie and fabricate in order to frame democrats.

The problem with this logic is that the republicans have been doing that for years now, so it's not really a threat. OTOH, they like to claim that democratic prosecution of republican crimes is just retaliation for their failed attempts. There are still republicans that consider Jacob Wohl to be a reliable source, and that someone like Robert Mueller has no more credibility than their hatchetman.

If there are democrats out there committing crimes, (and I'm sure that some do) by all means, prosecute them. I don't want to be represented by criminals. But don't threaten to prosecute criminals as some sort of political theater.
That was my understanding of his point as well and thought my response spoke to it. Likely I was unclear.

We are in complete agreement about prosecuting anyone who commits crimes, and not threatening or actually attempting to prosecute individuals without evidence -- as Bill Barr is presently attempting to do.

Andrew McCabe came perilously close to being arrested but for the sanity of a grand jury that declined to recommend prosecution. (I think. Barr refuses to release the findings of the grand jury -- but McCabe was not indicted, so the deduction is that the grand jury said, "Nope.")

Barr appears to be committing criminal acts right and left by obstructing lawful prosecutions for which there is actual evidence and actively attempting to prosecute individuals with none. He is bad, bad news. I hope it is Barr himself who soon ends up in the pokey.
  #3054  
Old 10-19-2019, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jsc1953 View Post
My odds as of today: 90% chance of impeachment. 35% chance of conviction by the Senate.

It just remains to be seen what impact that has on the presidential race (I think it hurts - Trump is toast) and on those Republican senators who have to justify their vote. My dream is that the blue wave covers the Senate next year.
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Originally Posted by computergeek View Post
The problem with this particular president is that he's got the base sewn up so tightly (they are Svengalied for whatever reason) that the GOP is afraid to cross him because they will be primaried and lose their seat and power. ...
Many will be watching a set of dates ranging from November 8 of this year to July 17 of next: the filing deadlines for primary races.

Once a Republican gets past that date, he or she can discuss Trump without fear of being primaried.

Granted, July of next year is a long way off---but several of the states with the most impressive electoral-vote counts will reach their filing deadlines relatively soon: Illinois (20 electoral votes) on December 2; California (55) on December 6; Texas (38) on December 9; Ohio (18) on December 18. Ten states, altogether, have filing deadlines in November, December, or January.

This could make a difference to any trial in the Senate, if the "impeachment vote by Thanksgiving" plan works out. Because the threat of being primaried will be gone for a fair number of Republicans, there could be quite a few who might feel emboldened to say out loud what they have, reportedly, been saying behind closed doors.


deadlines: https://ballotpedia.org/State_and_fe...lines_for_2020
electoral votes: https://www.archives.gov/federal-reg...llocation.html
  #3055  
Old 10-19-2019, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Sherrerd View Post
Granted, July of next year is a long way off---but several of the states with the most impressive electoral-vote counts will reach their filing deadlines relatively soon: Illinois (20 electoral votes) on December 2; California (55) on December 6; Texas (38) on December 9; Ohio (18) on December 18. Ten states, altogether, have filing deadlines in November, December, or January.
I'll just note that, of those four states, all four Senators from Illinois (Durbin, Duckworth) and California (Feinstein, Harris) are Democrats, as is one from Ohio (Brown).

Of course, all four of those states have a number of GOP House members.
  #3056  
Old 10-19-2019, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by kenobi 65 View Post
I'll just note that, of those four states, all four Senators from Illinois (Durbin, Duckworth) and California (Feinstein, Harris) are Democrats, as is one from Ohio (Brown).

Of course, all four of those states have a number of GOP House members.
Yes, the early-deadline states are short on GOP Senators. But even House Republicans, speaking out, could have an effect on the climate around the Senate trial vote.

Of course if Pelosi has the vote by Thanksgiving, this 'deadline' issue would give McConnell a strong incentive to have the trial take place at 3am on the day after the House vote; have it last one hour; then take his vote. Done and dusted, and Trump Vindicated! (&@$*#*^#)

Thanksgiving is at the end of the month this year (the 28th). The last day the House is in session is the 21st.* The Senate is in session on the 22nd** and could do the entire trial and vote that day, if Mitch were of a mind to. That would largely eliminate 'deadline-passed-so-non-Trump-fans-can-speak-out' as a factor for Republicans of both houses of Congress. That's probably McConnell's preference.

So I'm hoping that Pelosi might hold off until after Thanksgiving. The House is in session December 3 through the 12***; if they voted on the 12th that would give McConnell the 13th (when the Senate is last in session in December) to hold his trial-and-vote. But those dates would permit a few Republicans to speak out---and the whole thing would still have taken place before 2020 dawns, as the Democrats have said they intend.


* https://www.house.gov/legislative-activity

** https://www.senate.gov/legislative/r...9_calendar.pdf

*** https://www.majorityleader.gov/sites...19CALENDAR.pdf
  #3057  
Old 10-19-2019, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Sherrerd View Post
Many will be watching a set of dates ranging from November 8 of this year to July 17 of next: the filing deadlines for primary races.

Once a Republican gets past that date, he or she can discuss Trump without fear of being primaried.

Granted, July of next year is a long way off---
Using the primary filing dates for the 23 Republican Senators:

6 - opponents must file Nov-Feb
6 - opponents must file by March 15
4 - opponents must file by March 31
7 - opponents must file April-July

So, if the Senate votes on the Ides of March, 12 Senators are safe from an opponent filing because of their vote. (Of course, someone could file in anticipation)

Using primary election dates, 9 are safe after 19 May - 7 more by 30 June.
  #3058  
Old 10-19-2019, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jasg View Post
Using the primary filing dates for the 23 Republican Senators:

6 - opponents must file Nov-Feb
6 - opponents must file by March 15
4 - opponents must file by March 31
7 - opponents must file April-July

So, if the Senate votes on the Ides of March, 12 Senators are safe from an opponent filing because of their vote. (Of course, someone could file in anticipation)

Using primary election dates, 9 are safe after 19 May - 7 more by 30 June.
Hmm, yes, "file in anticipation." No doubt Trump's people will try to make that happen. Of course they might not be able to find candidates who are even vaguely-plausible (not that that would stop them).

But the mere fact that Trump has to worry about these dates should be dispiriting to all his enablers. (I hope.) The 'best President in history' branding suffers a bit from these facts, doesn't it?

Last edited by Sherrerd; 10-19-2019 at 07:33 PM.
  #3059  
Old 10-19-2019, 07:40 PM
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Trump will be impeached by the House; acquitted by Senate


President Trump will be impeached by the Democratic-run House by Christmas December 25; but acquitted by the Senate in a trial probably by February-March 2020 like Clinton in 1998-1999.

Trump and his supporters get energized by the impeachment in Spring 2020; it is whether or not the GOP decides to get rid of Trump and Pence and put someone "clean" like Romney, Nikki Haley, or Mike Braun of Indiana as the GOP 2020 replacement.

The whole thing is that after the Clinton acquittal in Feb. 1999, Clinton should have resigned and allowed a President Gore; Gore probably would have had a head start and would have won in 2000.

Last edited by Yankees 1996 Champs; 10-19-2019 at 07:41 PM.
  #3060  
Old 10-19-2019, 07:50 PM
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Trump could still survive impeachment and still win in 2020, but his margin for error is getting slimmer and slimmer. People will eventually get over the Ukraine scandal, but like the Mueller trial, it will nibble away at the edges of support that he received from the independent voters
  #3061  
Old 10-19-2019, 09:32 PM
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This just in. . .

President Trump drops plan to host G-7 at Doral

Or, as Mr. Trump puts it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald J. Trump
.Therefore, based on both Media & Democrat Crazed and Irrational Hostility, we will no longer consider Trump National Doral, Miami, as the Host Site for the G-7 in 2020. We will begin the search for another site, including the possibility of Camp David, immediately. Thank you!
On behalf of Crazed and Irrational Hostility everywhere, you're quite welcome.
  #3062  
Old 10-19-2019, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by kenobi 65 View Post
I'll just note that, of those four states, all four Senators from Illinois (Durbin, Duckworth) and California (Feinstein, Harris) are Democrats, as is one from Ohio (Brown).

Of course, all four of those states have a number of GOP House members.
There are only seven members of Congress from California.
  #3063  
Old 10-19-2019, 10:09 PM
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There are only seven members of Congress from California.
Seven Republicans, that is. And kenobi is correct, there are a number of GOP house members. Seven is a number.
  #3064  
Old 10-19-2019, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Kent Clark View Post
This just in. . .

President Trump drops plan to host G-7 at Doral

Or, as Mr. Trump puts it



On behalf of Crazed and Irrational Hostility everywhere, you're quite welcome.



Do you think a bunch of Republican senators got together and told him that THIS was just a step too far... Can't think of many other reasons he would give in so quickly

.
Quote:
Therefore, based on both Media & Democrat Crazed and Irrational Hostility, we will no longer consider Trump National Doral, Miami, as the Host Site for the G-7 in 2020.
We'd appreciate it if you'd leave office as well, if that particular message has been lost....

Last edited by MulderMuffin; 10-19-2019 at 10:32 PM.
  #3065  
Old 10-19-2019, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent Clark View Post
This just in. . .

President Trump drops plan to host G-7 at Doral

Or, as Mr. Trump puts it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald J. Trump
.Therefore, based on both Media & Democrat Crazed and Irrational Hostility, we will no longer consider Trump National Doral, Miami, as the Host Site for the G-7 in 2020. We will begin the search for another site, including the possibility of Camp David, immediately. Thank you!
On behalf of Crazed and Irrational Hostility everywhere, you're quite welcome.
Let's see...
  • Would have omplicated emoluments lawsuits, check
  • Backed by Republicans who went out on a limb supporting Doral decision before cutting it off, check
  • Makes Mulvaney's press appearance even more useless and demeaning, check
  • Possible article of impeachment, check
So much winning...
  #3066  
Old 10-19-2019, 11:58 PM
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Missed one
  • Possible boycott by G7 attendees, check
  #3067  
Old Yesterday, 07:28 AM
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I know we now sneer at the idea that Trump may be playing multi-dimensional chess when it seems like he’s done something stupid that looks like a loss he didn’t really get anything out of, but I have to ask: what actually happened, here?

Well, there was lots of talk about a resort that could, of course, host world leaders; but it shouldn’t, because having VIPs marvel at marble floors under fancy chandeliers would involve some kind of emoluments violation, dontchaknow.

And if it never actually hosts the event, it never falls short of expectations; just a starting point — discuss the venue; grant, for the sake of argument, that folks would usually pay even more; ask whether operating it ‘at cost’ just this once would be appropriate — and then just, y’know, stop, after days of free publicity.

Was there anything else?
  #3068  
Old Yesterday, 09:59 AM
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Kyle Griffin, MSNBC:
Quote:
Stephanopoulos on suspending aid to Ukraine: "You saw Mr. Mulvaney right there say that one of the reasons was indeed this idea that Ukraine had to pursue these political investigations."

Mike Pompeo: "I'll leave to the chief of staff to explain what it is he said."
Via ABC
  #3069  
Old Yesterday, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
I know we now sneer at the idea that Trump may be playing multi-dimensional chess
"Care for a game of chess, Mr President?"

"I'll be the shoe."

"Ummm, that's Monopoly, Mr President."

"Wheeeeeeeeeeee!"

"Ummm, Chutes and Ladders, sir."
  #3070  
Old Yesterday, 11:18 AM
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Shoe? No way. He always gets to be the top hat, or he refuses to play and stomps off to his room.
  #3071  
Old Yesterday, 11:35 AM
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Shoe? No way. He always gets to be the top hat, or he refuses to play and stomps off to his room.
Good, because I pout if I can't have either the dog or the race car.
  #3072  
Old Yesterday, 12:03 PM
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You can date yourself as an old fart if you remember the wooden Monopoly tokens My sister always had to have the tall white one. I preferred the red one.
  #3073  
Old Yesterday, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jasg View Post
Let's see...
  • Would have omplicated emoluments lawsuits, check
  • Backed by Republicans who went out on a limb supporting Doral decision before cutting it off, check
  • Makes Mulvaney's press appearance even more useless and demeaning, check
  • Possible article of impeachment, check
So much winning...
I guess Trump was right about one thing. Personally, I *am* tired of winning.
__________________
If I waited for memory to serve, I'd starve.
  #3074  
Old Yesterday, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Walken After Midnight View Post
Kyle Griffin, MSNBC:
Chris Wallace on Fox News grilled Mulvaney and didn't let him up.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps...-chris-wallace
  #3075  
Old Yesterday, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen View Post
Chris Wallace on Fox News grilled Mulvaney and didn't let him up.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps...-chris-wallace
Man, Mulvaney's scooting around like an itchy dog on a carpet trying to avoid answering Wallace's questions...
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