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  #501  
Old 03-15-2017, 03:20 PM
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For me it's the other way around. On my current run I earned 7 heirlooms, and only 1 of them was a shield.
  #502  
Old 03-15-2017, 05:34 PM
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I got an ethereal staff a while ago that was likewise trash. Shields and staves seem roughly half and half, though.
  #503  
Old 03-15-2017, 08:54 PM
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I just got my first ethereal heirloom, and it really sucks. It has almost every single one of the modifiers I didn't want.

11.2% crit chance
400% crit damage
128% player efficiency
150% trimp health

And it costs 2400 nullifium to replace a stat on ethereals, so I feel like that's probably not going to happen. On a related note, what is going on with the shield drops? On average I probably get four shields for every staff, which seems weird.
I'll admit that player efficiency sucks, but what's wrong with crit chance, crit damage and trimp health? The other options for a shield are Void Map, Trimp Attack, Trainer Eff., Storage, Breed Speed, and Trimp Block. How are people ranking these? Maybe:

1. Void Map
2. Trimp Block
3. Trainer
4. Crit Chance
5. Crit Damage
6. Trimp Health
7. Trimp Attack
8. everything else?

Last edited by Munch; 03-15-2017 at 08:54 PM.
  #504  
Old 03-16-2017, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Munch View Post
I'll admit that player efficiency sucks, but what's wrong with crit chance, crit damage and trimp health? The other options for a shield are Void Map, Trimp Attack, Trainer Eff., Storage, Breed Speed, and Trimp Block. How are people ranking these? Maybe:

1. Void Map
2. Trimp Block
3. Trainer
4. Crit Chance
5. Crit Damage
6. Trimp Health
7. Trimp Attack
8. everything else?
I would put attack above both crits, since 80% damage bonus on every strike is always good and only uses one slot (I already have 50% crit chance and +400% crit damage from Relentlessness, which makes that less of a boost since those are additive and would simply mean eight times damage bonus on 18/30 attacks instead of four times damage bonus on 15/30 attacks.). Other than that it looks about right, void map and block can't be boosted through perks and both get quite important in the late game, so I'd have preferred at least one of those. Oh well, I'll probably see another ethereal in another six months or so.

Last edited by Telperion; 03-16-2017 at 04:10 AM.
  #505  
Old 03-16-2017, 02:28 PM
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To put some concrete numbers on that, assume your damage before shield bonuses is 100. Crits are +400%, so 500 damage, and with a 50% crit rate average damage is 300.

Maximum crit damage for an ethereal shield is +400%, making crits 900 damage, and average 500.

Maximum attack for ethereals is 200%, making base damage 300, crits 1500, and average 900.

---

I would rank shield modifiers, from best to worst, something like
  1. Attack
  2. Trainer efficency
  3. Block
  4. Void maps
  5. Crit damage
  6. Health
  7. Crit chance
  8. Breeding speed​
  9. Storage size​
  10. Player efficiency​

Not sure about the positioning of void maps vs block boosters, and I could put health above crit damage. One thing worth noting is that trainer efficiency is strictly better than block: since it functions as a multiplicative boost to trainers, it amounts to a straight block multiplier, and it has higher values than straight block.

The ideal would be multiple shields for different occasions. Void map drop chance is useless in maps, and block really shines when running void maps, but health is often better outside of maps. But in a more plausible scenario where I don't have multiple nice shields, that's what my composite valuation looks like.
  #506  
Old 03-16-2017, 06:50 PM
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I always buy 89 Huts, 87 Houses, 94 Mansions, 89 Hotels, and 88 Resorts. The reason for the last three is that that's the point at which they because less efficient gem-wise than the first Collector. While I could go back and buy them after I start getting collector as they regain their relative efficiency as I buy Collectors, once I've got one Collector the rest are effectively unimportant. Houses and Huts stop when they become less efficient food-wise than Mansions.

In other news, I found my first dark essence. I had hoped for an achievement for it, but instead I basically wasted a half hour grinding level 181 trying to get one.

Last edited by glowacks; 03-16-2017 at 06:51 PM.
  #507  
Old 03-17-2017, 11:44 AM
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Going to start doing NOM runs. But the helium bonus is awarded after completing zone 145, and the next heirloom breakpoint is zone 146. Do I try to maximize my helium, or maximize my chances at an ethereal?
  #508  
Old 03-17-2017, 02:50 PM
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As I did a whole set of 181+ runs for challenge2, I ended up with a lot of drops; as it worked out, I got a decent amount of magnificents and a single etherial (a staff; three poor stats and metal drop)

I do have shields to swap between (also a low-level staff for farmers). To echo some of those above, of the damage stats, attack >> crit damage >> crit chance. Also, I value trimp health more than many of the above.

I think my ideal general purpose shield would be void maps, attack, trainers, block in that order. Early on a void maps, attack, crit damage, crit chance shield would be useful. An attack, trainers, block, health would be good too for maps.
  #509  
Old 03-17-2017, 02:57 PM
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On the Nom and doing void maps during challenges question...

First off, most days I would expect dailies would be better than Nom; I never did any normal Nom and just dailed until ready for Tox. Tox is better than the vast majority of dailies while your max level is about at that range.

I don't know if there's a 'right' answer, but for me I would usually sacrifice the helium to get better odds at heirlooms... except if I was planning that this would be my very best run for the purpose of using bones to buy portals... and thus remultiply the helium. I did one tox run with all the void maps in run for this purpose, for example.
  #510  
Old 03-19-2017, 08:06 PM
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Today's daily challenge is pretty sweet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daily Challenge
Enemies have a 26% chance to dodge your attacks on odd zones.
Trimps have 60% more attack on even numbered zones
Enemy health increased by 120%.
Your Trimps lose 3% of their max health after each attack.

Challenge has no end point, and grants an additional 372% of all helium earned before finishing. Can only be run once! Reward does not count toward Bone Portals or affect best He/Hr stat.

Incidentally, the daily change at midnight in my time zone. I live in London. Does it change at midnight in all time zones, or is it fixed to London time?
  #511  
Old 03-19-2017, 09:27 PM
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I hope I can make it in time. I'm running the Mapology challenge, and it's a massive grind.
  #512  
Old 03-19-2017, 09:35 PM
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Yeah, Mapology was the worst of the standard scoring 11 challenge2s, I stopped it 10 levels earlier than all the other similarly scored ones.

Dailies change at midnight GMT no matter where you are.
  #513  
Old 03-19-2017, 10:29 PM
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Pretend the 11 in the post above is a twelve. Someday I'll learn to count.
  #514  
Old 03-20-2017, 04:04 AM
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Incidentally, the daily change at midnight in my time zone. I live in London. Does it change at midnight in all time zones, or is it fixed to London time?
It changes at 5 PM here on the west coast, so I'm guessing the rollover is pegged to GMT.
  #515  
Old 03-20-2017, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
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Dailies change at midnight GMT no matter where you are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
It changes at 5 PM here on the west coast, so I'm guessing the rollover is pegged to GMT.

Thanks, guys.
  #516  
Old 03-20-2017, 07:21 AM
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Yeah, Mapology was the worst of the standard scoring 11 challenge2s, I stopped it 10 levels earlier than all the other similarly scored ones.
To be fair, I was also trying to crank out the Shaggy achievement. I managed to get it, but I probably should have just waited until I get Overkill.
  #517  
Old 03-20-2017, 08:27 AM
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To be fair, I was also trying to crank out the Shaggy achievement. I managed to get it, but I probably should have just waited until I get Overkill.
I hated that achievement so much. I had my equipment levels around 130 and the last few zones still took ages. Good thing I won't have to do that again. Next up: Grindless. I think I can make it work with the right masteries, but we'll see.
  #518  
Old 03-20-2017, 01:06 PM
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I'm holding out for Power II before I go for Shaggy, myself. I don't see how Overkill would help, though?

For Grindless, the big problem seems to be the lack of Nurseries. You must have a lot more spare health than I do if you can swing it.
  #519  
Old 03-20-2017, 03:25 PM
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For Grindless, the big problem seems to be the lack of Nurseries. You must have a lot more spare health than I do if you can swing it.
Yeah. I think I can get Toughness II to level 300 if I respec, hopefully that will be enough to power through with Health formation. Going to take a while, though.
  #520  
Old 03-24-2017, 09:02 PM
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Here's the 2017-03-25 Daily challenge:

- Gain a stack after killing an enemy, increasing all non Helium loot by 0.75%. Stacks cap at 450, and reset after clearing a zone.

- Enemies stack a debuff with each attack, reducing Trimp attack by 10% per stack. Stacks cap at 9 and reset on Trimp death.

- Enemies stack a debuff with each attack, damaging Trimps for 3% of total health per turn per stack, resets on Trimp death.

Pretty easy so far. I'm looking forward to +338% loot overnight if I leave it on an easy map. Might be easier than a regular run.
  #521  
Old 03-25-2017, 10:36 AM
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Oooh, masteries - shiny!
  #522  
Old 03-28-2017, 08:37 AM
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So what's the deal with corruption? I picked up a void map, and it's corrupted. And apparently, impossible.
  #523  
Old 03-28-2017, 08:49 AM
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So what's the deal with corruption? I picked up a void map, and it's corrupted. And apparently, impossible.
Corruption appears in all maps after zone 180, and it basically creates minibosses who will give a helium reward once they are beaten. It gets pretty crazy on higher zones, I did a run to get the zone 220 achievement and most of the squares on the first three rows were corrupted.
  #524  
Old 03-28-2017, 09:05 AM
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And are the void maps entirely corrupted?
  #525  
Old 03-28-2017, 09:22 AM
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And are the void maps entirely corrupted?
They don't get the corruption abilities, but all void enemies become more difficult. I think there's a tooltip for it, it's called void corruption.
  #526  
Old 03-30-2017, 10:51 AM
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Now see, this is not trash:

340% Crit Damage
98% Trainer Efficiency
200% Trimp Attack
27% Void Map Drop Chance

I am going to miss the health boost from my magnificent shield, though. I've definitely started to value that higher relative to block lately.
  #527  
Old 03-30-2017, 12:02 PM
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Very nice!

I've found 2 ethereals so far - both shields. The first one managed to be worse than my magnificent shield. The second I can't decide on. Who can help?

Magnificent:
51% block
66% Trainer
150% Attack
18% Void Map

Ethereal:
10.4% Crit. Chance
380% Crit. Damage
77% Block
200% Health
  #528  
Old 03-30-2017, 12:30 PM
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By my calculations:

Magnificent:
+150% damage
+143% block
more void maps

Ethereal
+90% average damage
+77% block
+200% health

If nothing else, you can use the magnificent shield during the first part of the run and when grinding maps, and switch to the ethereal for the last part of the run if your trimps being dead a lot is what's slowing down your progress.
  #529  
Old 03-30-2017, 03:26 PM
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Oh yeah, I beat Grindless the other day and now have 818% from achievements. It was pretty slow but not too bad, I think it took just under four days all in all. At 30 seconds repopulation I had about 150 geneticists from population alone towards the end. Also, I got a ton of bones (Almost 60!) for taking my time getting through the zones, so that's a nice bonus.
  #530  
Old 03-30-2017, 05:46 PM
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Oh yeah, I beat Grindless the other day and now have 818% from achievements.
Oh really? That's interesting, because I have the impression that you're significantly ahead of me (you certainly reached corruption and the Spire well ahead of me, and I only just got the level 210 achievement on my last run), but I have 903%.
  #531  
Old 03-30-2017, 06:20 PM
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Oh really? That's interesting, because I have the impression that you're significantly ahead of me (you certainly reached corruption and the Spire well ahead of me, and I only just got the level 210 achievement on my last run), but I have 903%.
Yeah, that sounds about right actually, I haven't done the grindier achievements on the last row yet and I can't find a damn magnificent staff for the life of me. (Also, can't seem to get Imploding Star below 8 hours. Arrgh!)

Last edited by Telperion; 03-30-2017 at 06:22 PM.
  #532  
Old 03-30-2017, 07:18 PM
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Speaking of achievements, Unemployment says you have to get to Z60 Without Hiring a single Trimp. What does hiring a trump mean? It isn't by using traps, I tried that.
  #533  
Old 03-30-2017, 07:56 PM
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No giving Trimps any jobs.
  #534  
Old 03-30-2017, 09:44 PM
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No giving Trimps any jobs.
  #535  
Old 03-30-2017, 09:55 PM
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and I can't find a damn magnificent staff for the life of me
Yup. 7 red shields and 2 ethereal shields. Maaaaybe 4 orange staffs? WTH?
  #536  
Old 03-31-2017, 11:10 AM
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(Also, can't seem to get Imploding Star below 8 hours. Arrgh!)
That'd be a big part of it then, because that's 50% I have on you. Not quite sure how that works, because I can reach it in less than three on most runs when I'm not particularly trying (my record is 2:14), though my really nice magnificent staff could be a part of the explanation.
  #537  
Old 04-02-2017, 10:37 AM
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My first >legendary item was an etherial staff, then three magnificent staffs. So far I've found a total of about a dozen mixed magnificents. Still just the one etherial though...

I'm doing my first Spire encounter at 114M He (probably late, I did a lot of 190ish runs without heading to spire partly because I was incompletely spoiled, knowing the difficulty but not understanding you could go past it without winning) Hoping to get to square 50, but we'll see. This run started as a Corruption run, have 16M He on hand atm and plan to push farther after spire and use my new max from this run to buy several portals with bones during my next spire attempt.

Sounds like my playstyle is closer to Sofis', I have 823% bonus without any zone clears of 200 or more. I'm getting to zone 170 in a bit over 3 hours without much trouble (when not doing a hostile challenge). Still need Shaggy, Trimp is Poison, and Grindless to complete all the non-blue feats. Haven't tried Shaggy yet, will probably do that next as I just got Power II.

Last edited by Some Call Me... Tim; 04-02-2017 at 10:41 AM.
  #538  
Old 04-02-2017, 12:12 PM
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That'd be a big part of it then, because that's 50% I have on you. Not quite sure how that works, because I can reach it in less than three on most runs when I'm not particularly trying (my record is 2:14), though my really nice magnificent staff could be a part of the explanation.
I'm pretty sure my compulsion to build all the warpstations I possibly can isn't helping any, either.
  #539  
Old 04-02-2017, 12:17 PM
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I'm pretty sure my compulsion to build all the warpstations I possibly can isn't helping any, either.
It might. My current warpstation strategy is to get 50 of the first tier, then increase by five for each gigastation until I hit 120, then increase by three from there on, putting me at 180 for the last one before the Spire. Seems to give me a reasonable mix between fast progress and high total population in the end.
  #540  
Old 04-02-2017, 12:52 PM
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It might. My current warpstation strategy is to get 50 of the first tier, then increase by five for each gigastation until I hit 120, then increase by three from there on, putting me at 180 for the last one before the Spire. Seems to give me a reasonable mix between fast progress and high total population in the end.
Yeah, that makes sense. I'm usually closer to 100 before I start building gigastations, which is probably the opposite of speedruns.
  #541  
Old 04-02-2017, 01:04 PM
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I'm pretty sure my compulsion to build all the warpstations I possibly can isn't helping any, either.
To confound us minmaxers: on the other hand, Tauntimps are a significant boost in population, and they reward you for getting a high max population earlier rather than later. On the gripping hand, because of compounding most things you do early are mostly irrelevant 50 levels later.

Last edited by Some Call Me... Tim; 04-02-2017 at 01:04 PM.
  #542  
Old 04-02-2017, 03:14 PM
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All right, I managed to tighten up my game considerably and got Imploding Star down to 2:06 which is probably about the best I can get. I can't even see how it is remotely possible to do it under 50 minutes, by that point I wasn't even at zone 100 and that was with overkill on every single attack.
  #543  
Old 04-03-2017, 11:39 AM
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Theoretical minimum time to reach zone 170, assuming all relevant masteries, is 42 minutes and 15 seconds. Of course, you don't actually have to reach zone 170 to beat Imploding Star.
  #544  
Old 04-03-2017, 12:02 PM
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Theoretical minimum time to reach zone 170, assuming all relevant masteries, is 42 minutes and 15 seconds. Of course, you don't actually have to reach zone 170 to beat Imploding Star.
Right, Blacksmithery should speed things up quite considerably. Although considering I'm still some 7 masteries away from being able to unlock that, I may well be able to overkill every square on Watch before that point. (Also of course, reaching level 330 is going to take a good long while.)
  #545  
Old 04-03-2017, 03:09 PM
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Also, doesn't clearing out Bionic Wonderland open up all the unique maps along the way? So you could theoretically beat Imploding Star on zone 125.
  #546  
Old 04-03-2017, 05:48 PM
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I feel like I've been stuck in the late early game (or early middle game?) for a couple weeks. I can zoom up to around Z80, but it take days to get up and past Z100. Any advice on how to speed things up here? There doesn't seem to be too many exciting upgrades or new perks until I'm way past Z120 which is not feasible for me now.

I've got a total of 722K He, is it simply a matter of portalling a bunch of times until I can get enough perks to get me over the hump?
  #547  
Old 04-03-2017, 10:13 PM
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I feel like I've been stuck in the late early game (or early middle game?) for a couple weeks. I can zoom up to around Z80, but it take days to get up and past Z100. Any advice on how to speed things up here? There doesn't seem to be too many exciting upgrades or new perks until I'm way past Z120 which is not feasible for me now.

I've got a total of 722K He, is it simply a matter of portalling a bunch of times until I can get enough perks to get me over the hump?
That's not even close to the late game - or even the middle game. I'm in the middle game. I have 410m He, and can clear Lead in 2 hours. I get my ass kicked in the Spire. Cell 38 is as far as I'm getting.

Now, I've been running AutoTrimps for several weeks now. It's a far different game than just running vanilla Trimps. I like it far far better. I was getting a little too obsessive about the vanilla game, and was micromanaging it too much during the week. This automates as much as I want, and the progress is more palpable and real to me. And if you really don't like the idea of automating it, I'd recommend downloading the script just to gain access to the graphs and things - it's a very cool way to keep track of your progress.

Last edited by Munch; 04-03-2017 at 10:14 PM.
  #548  
Old 04-04-2017, 06:49 AM
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That's not even close to the late game - or even the middle game. I'm in the middle game. I have 410m He, and can clear Lead in 2 hours. I get my ass kicked in the Spire. Cell 38 is as far as I'm getting.

Now, I've been running AutoTrimps for several weeks now. It's a far different game than just running vanilla Trimps. I like it far far better. I was getting a little too obsessive about the vanilla game, and was micromanaging it too much during the week. This automates as much as I want, and the progress is more palpable and real to me. And if you really don't like the idea of automating it, I'd recommend downloading the script just to gain access to the graphs and things - it's a very cool way to keep track of your progress.
I didn't say I was in late game, and I have no idea what the rest of that post means!

Can you elaborate or give me some direction to help me progress?
  #549  
Old 04-04-2017, 06:59 AM
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I think the biggest thing you can do right now is keep an eye on your helium for our numbers. Find out at what point it starts dropping, and just portal at that point. ( assuming, of course, that you're done with any challenge that you signed up for. ) The daily challenges really are a great source of helium, regardless of how hard they look.
  #550  
Old 04-04-2017, 07:14 AM
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I think the biggest thing you can do right now is keep an eye on your helium for our numbers. Find out at what point it starts dropping, and just portal at that point. ( assuming, of course, that you're done with any challenge that you signed up for. ) The daily challenges really are a great source of helium, regardless of how hard they look.
Ok, so the idea is to collect more helium to boost my perks up a bunch?

Also, what is this script you mentioned?
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