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Old 05-20-2020, 11:12 AM
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Following the second wave (or not) in the US as the States open up


Last I heard, 48 of the 50 States are releasing restrictions for the lockdown at one level or another. I'm interested in what happens a couple weeks after a State releases some restrictions to see what's working and what's not.

After Georgia's release of lockdown, I was surprised to see that there was not a significant increase of covid cases. I was less surprised to see that they have been accused of falsifying the data on the number of cases.

Texas, North Carolina and Arkansas saw a rise in cases after they reopened.

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Texas, North Carolina and Arizona are among the states seeing rising numbers of coronavirus cases, intensifying concerns as they seek to reopen shuttered economies.

Texas saw its largest one-day increase in cases on Saturday, with 1,801 new cases. North Carolina also saw its largest single-day jump on Saturday with 853 new cases. And Arizona reported 462 new cases that day, close to a record high.

The seven-day average in new cases in all three states has also been rising, according to data compiled by The New York Times.
Maryland Reports Largest Rise Yet In Coronavirus Cases 4 Days After Reopening

I've heard of States with cases going down after opening, but i haven't seen articles on them.

How is your State doing? Are there other States that are doing well or poorly after reopening? Are there particular reasons for the cases to go up or down in that particular area?
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Old 05-20-2020, 11:38 AM
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I kind of wonder if maybe they should look at hospitalizations and deaths and try to extrapolate the number of infections from there, as testing is still sporadic enough to not be terribly useful for this kind of thing. For one thing, testing rates are increasing, which would also imply that all else being equal, the number of reported cases would increase. Maybe a testsositives ratio would be more useful?
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Old 05-20-2020, 11:44 AM
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I kind of wonder if maybe they should look at hospitalizations and deaths and try to extrapolate the number of infections from there, as testing is still sporadic enough to not be terribly useful for this kind of thing. For one thing, testing rates are increasing, which would also imply that all else being equal, the number of reported cases would increase. Maybe a testsositives ratio would be more useful?
Good point. I forgot to mention that many States are saying the the number of cases is going up because of testing. So you're right, probably using the hospitalization rates or death rates would be more indicative of the direction of the curve. I'm not sure if anyone is following that very closely though.
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Old 05-20-2020, 12:01 PM
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The Washington Post (washingtonpost.com) has info on COVID-19 deaths by state. I don't think you need to be a subscriber to see data:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ge%2Fstory-ans
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Old 05-20-2020, 01:06 PM
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I kind of wonder if maybe they should look at hospitalizations and deaths and try to extrapolate the number of infections from there, as testing is still sporadic enough to not be terribly useful for this kind of thing. For one thing, testing rates are increasing, which would also imply that all else being equal, the number of reported cases would increase. Maybe a testsositives ratio would be more useful?
It (hospitalizations and deaths) is a more accurate signal, but a slower one, since there's a delay between becoming infected and it getting bad enough to require hospitalization which is presumably longer than the delay from getting infected to having a positive test.

Not sure the tests/positives ratio is useful, unless you're someone controlling for who is getting the tests.
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Old 05-21-2020, 04:55 AM
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I blame some in the media for this. Of course you will have an increase in new cases after you reopen!!! That would be true if we waited another six months or another year.

This is almost like 1984. Nobody said that the virus would be over and then we would go out. We were "flattening the curve" so that our hospitals were not swamped. Once we got that under control, it was all but stated that yes, for a long damned time people will continue to get sick and continue to die from this thing.

But now these twats in the media are acting like this was totally unexpected and that nobody should be reopening because new cases are rising. They were always going to.
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Old 05-21-2020, 05:23 AM
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But now these twats in the media are acting like this was totally unexpected and that nobody should be reopening because new cases are rising. They were always going to.
Yes, no and maybe.

I just posted in another thread that Denmark is not seeing an increase in cases after 4 1/2 seeks after reopening, but they don't know why.

From what I've seen, no one, including Denmark, was expecting that. People expect an increase in cases. They're hoping that the increase in cases doesn't spike like it did in NY at the start of this.

For this thread, I'm trying to track which State(s) have been the most successful in keeping the cases low and the potential reasons that it might have happened. As has been pointed out, new cases might not be a good stat to follow since people are claiming that the reason for new cases in increased testing. I'm continuing to look for articles that are monitoring this activity more accurately.
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Old 05-21-2020, 05:37 AM
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Yes, no and maybe.

I just posted in another thread that Denmark is not seeing an increase in cases after 4 1/2 seeks after reopening, but they don't know why.

From what I've seen, no one, including Denmark, was expecting that. People expect an increase in cases. They're hoping that the increase in cases doesn't spike like it did in NY at the start of this.

For this thread, I'm trying to track which State(s) have been the most successful in keeping the cases low and the potential reasons that it might have happened. As has been pointed out, new cases might not be a good stat to follow since people are claiming that the reason for new cases in increased testing. I'm continuing to look for articles that are monitoring this activity more accurately.
Yeah, but that's Denmark which, IIRC has about 5 million people, a huge landmass, and border controls. Imagine West Virginia with border controls. It's no wonder that they can control the spread.

You just cannot extrapolate that to a Florida or a Texas with no border controls so that sick New Yorkers can flock there for a beach vacation.
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Old 05-21-2020, 06:05 AM
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Yes, no and maybe.

I just posted in another thread that Denmark is not seeing an increase in cases after 4 1/2 seeks after reopening, but they don't know why.

From what I've seen, no one, including Denmark, was expecting that. People expect an increase in cases. They're hoping that the increase in cases doesn't spike like it did in NY at the start of this.

For this thread, I'm trying to track which State(s) have been the most successful in keeping the cases low and the potential reasons that it might have happened. As has been pointed out, new cases might not be a good stat to follow since people are claiming that the reason for new cases in increased testing. I'm continuing to look for articles that are monitoring this activity more accurately.
Norway has the same experience. So does Germany, Slovakia, the Czech Republic etc. I actually think that is the most common pattern. Once again, media skewers the perceptions of what is happening because they focus on whats wrong and do not mention places where things are going well.

I do think its clear that easing up is more complicated and tricky than locking down. But mostly it seems to work.
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Old 05-21-2020, 06:43 AM
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You have to look at graphs of the data over time and compare them against other states and countries. It's not particularly useful reading anecdotal articles about localized increases and decreases.

Even accounting for "fudging", Georgia never hit more than 1000 new cases a day.

The media keeps saying how discounting NY metro area (NY/NJ/CT), cases are still rising. But the NY metro area accounted for an overwhelming number of cases.



https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america
http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/
http://ncov.bii.virginia.edu/dashboard/
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Old 05-21-2020, 06:55 AM
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But now these twats in the media are acting like this was totally unexpected and that nobody should be reopening because new cases are rising. They were always going to.
Twats?

It's news. They're reporting it.
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Old 05-21-2020, 06:59 AM
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Old 05-21-2020, 07:03 AM
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Yeah, but that's Denmark which, IIRC has about 5 million people, a huge landmass, and border controls. Imagine West Virginia with border controls. It's no wonder that they can control the spread.

You just cannot extrapolate that to a Florida or a Texas with no border controls so that sick New Yorkers can flock there for a beach vacation.
Exactly. That's why I'm looking for what's happening by State and what about the State could be accounting for that. You've just named a few of the reasons that Denmark might be doing better than some of the States in the US like less population density, stricter border controls, etc. There's also the fact that Denmark locked down early and hard, and had a plan.

Some of the US States are opening when the stats are increasing and some of them have more densely populated urban areas. How are these States faring and is their economy reviving as a result?
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Old 05-21-2020, 07:11 AM
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Norway has the same experience. So does Germany, Slovakia, the Czech Republic etc. I actually think that is the most common pattern. Once again, media skewers the perceptions of what is happening because they focus on whats wrong and do not mention places where things are going well.

I do think its clear that easing up is more complicated and tricky than locking down. But mostly it seems to work.
From what I read, and I'm not following all that closely, those countries that are doing better, locked down early and with a lot of control and a plan. Now that they're reopening, the increases are not showing as much. But there are countries where the cases are coming back. I was reading that China and S. Korea are having more infection. Other countries like UK, Italy, Spain, Belgium and Sweden haven't really gone down to the level of the countries you mentioned..

I'm interested to see if this same pattern will hold true in the States. Some States locked down early with strict orders. Others were pretty late to the game and are reopening earlier as well. Some are densely populated with a lot of international travel normally. Others are very rural with hardly any international travel. All of those factors will make a difference, I expect. But there are other factors as well, I'm sure.
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Old 05-21-2020, 07:52 AM
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From what I read, and I'm not following all that closely, those countries that are doing better, locked down early and with a lot of control and a plan. Now that they're reopening, the increases are not showing as much. But there are countries where the cases are coming back. I was reading that China and S. Korea are having more infection. Other countries like UK, Italy, Spain, Belgium and Sweden haven't really gone down to the level of the countries you mentioned..

I'm interested to see if this same pattern will hold true in the States. Some States locked down early with strict orders. Others were pretty late to the game and are reopening earlier as well. Some are densely populated with a lot of international travel normally. Others are very rural with hardly any international travel. All of those factors will make a difference, I expect. But there are other factors as well, I'm sure.


A big factor is also how they are "re-opening". It's not a binary lockdown vs open, there are degrees of openness. And there's the factor of human compliance. One state where everyone wears a mask, maintains social distancing, and doesn't linger in the stores will see fewer infections than a state where people are going "Mah RughtS!" and refusing to wear masks, congregating in large numbers, and spending hours hanging out at the bars.

I imagine that Denmark is much closer to one end of that spectrum than the other. Some US states? No so much.
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Old 05-21-2020, 08:06 AM
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Twats?

It's news. They're reporting it.
Yeah, but you know as well as I do that there is reporting and there is "reporting." These hacks are in it for the shock value and not for simple conveyance of news. Wouldn't an ethical journalist include that this was to be expected in any reopening, whether today or six months from now?
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Old 05-21-2020, 08:16 AM
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Yeah, but you know as well as I do that there is reporting and there is "reporting." These hacks are in it for the shock value and not for simple conveyance of news. Wouldn't an ethical journalist include that this was to be expected in any reopening, whether today or six months from now?
Hacks? I thought they were twats.

They are reporting what is happening. That's what I want when I read the news.
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Old 05-21-2020, 08:21 AM
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You have to look at graphs of the data over time and compare them against other states and countries. It's not particularly useful reading anecdotal articles about localized increases and decreases.
The question is which States should be compared with which other States and countries and why. That's where the anecdotal comes in. In some places, the culture is standoffish and people don't get too physically close. In other places, people are in your face all the time. Some place are more rural where you have to get in a car. Other places are more urban where you have to travel with everyone else. Looking at the numbers can only say so much about the data. Beyond that, you'd have to know a little about the place or at least make some guesses about it.

Looking at Georgia, is 1,000 new cases a day a little or a lot. Compared to what? And why?
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Old 05-21-2020, 08:25 AM
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Old 05-21-2020, 08:30 AM
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A big factor is also how they are "re-opening". It's not a binary lockdown vs open, there are degrees of openness. And there's the factor of human compliance. One state where everyone wears a mask, maintains social distancing, and doesn't linger in the stores will see fewer infections than a state where people are going "Mah RughtS!" and refusing to wear masks, congregating in large numbers, and spending hours hanging out at the bars.

I imagine that Denmark is much closer to one end of that spectrum than the other. Some US states? No so much.
For sure. But wouldn't it be weird if a State that was the furthest away on the spectrum from Denmark also had a decline in cases? You'd have to be able to account for that. Could it happen? I don't know. That's what I'm trying to track in this thread.
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Old 05-21-2020, 01:12 PM
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Yeah, but that's Denmark which, IIRC has about 5 million people, a huge landmass, and border controls. Imagine West Virginia with border controls. It's no wonder that they can control the spread.

You just cannot extrapolate that to a Florida or a Texas with no border controls so that sick New Yorkers can flock there for a beach vacation.
Denmark is actually fairly dense compared with other European nations. It is more dense than all but eight U.S. States (it fits between FL and PA). West Virginia is 50% larger and has 1/3 the population of Denmark. You are correct about the borders.
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Old 05-21-2020, 01:31 PM
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After Georgia's release of lockdown, I was surprised to see that there was not a significant increase of covid cases. I was less surprised to see that they have been accused of falsifying the data on the number of cases.

Texas, North Carolina and Arkansas saw a rise in cases after they reopened.



Maryland Reports Largest Rise Yet In Coronavirus Cases 4 Days After Reopening
One of the problems here is that it's unclear how long of a delay there should be when attributing a rise in cases to reopening.

When Georgia reopened there were dire predictions of an increase in cases. When that failed to materialize, it was said that of course, that's because it takes weeks before the opening manifests itself in an increase in test results. OK, but now we're seeing an increase 4 days after reopening attributed to the reopening.

In sum, unless there's some agreement as to how long the duration would be for a reopening-caused spike, it's very difficult to make much of the data.
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Old 05-21-2020, 02:31 PM
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One of the problems here is that it's unclear how long of a delay there should be when attributing a rise in cases to reopening.

When Georgia reopened there were dire predictions of an increase in cases. When that failed to materialize, it was said that of course, that's because it takes weeks before the opening manifests itself in an increase in test results. OK, but now we're seeing an increase 4 days after reopening attributed to the reopening.

In sum, unless there's some agreement as to how long the duration would be for a reopening-caused spike, it's very difficult to make much of the data.
It's been over 3 weeks. Let's say you're right. Putting aside the claims of false data and errors that Georgia supposedly cleaned up. I can't really find reliable numbers for how they're doing right now.

But without any of that, why do you think that Georgia is seeing a decrease (or not an increase?) in cases after they reopened?
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Old 05-21-2020, 02:54 PM
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I blame some in the media for this. Of course you will have an increase in new cases after you reopen!!! That would be true if we waited another six months or another year.

This is almost like 1984. Nobody said that the virus would be over and then we would go out. We were "flattening the curve" so that our hospitals were not swamped. Once we got that under control, it was all but stated that yes, for a long damned time people will continue to get sick and continue to die from this thing.

But now these twats in the media are acting like this was totally unexpected and that nobody should be reopening because new cases are rising. They were always going to.
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Yeah, but you know as well as I do that there is reporting and there is "reporting." These hacks are in it for the shock value and not for simple conveyance of news. Wouldn't an ethical journalist include that this was to be expected in any reopening, whether today or six months from now?
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These are effectively political and professional jabs, which aren't permitted in this forum. Dial it back, especially the use of words like "twat."

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Old 05-21-2020, 03:03 PM
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It's been over 3 weeks. Let's say you're right. Putting aside the claims of false data and errors that Georgia supposedly cleaned up. I can't really find reliable numbers for how they're doing right now.

But without any of that, why do you think that Georgia is seeing a decrease (or not an increase?) in cases after they reopened?
I'm not asserting that Georgia is actually seeing a decrease. Someone did earlier, but that's not my claim or central to my point.

My point is that since there is apparently uncertainty as to how long after a state reopens there would be an expected spike in infections, it's very difficult to test the theory that there should be a spike. What I pointing to was the article - written at a time when the Georgia results were being accepted at face value, and quoting various experts - which said that any spike wouldn't manifest itself for several weeks. Contrast to your linked article which was clearly associating a spike 4 days after reopening with that reopening. Regardless of whether the drop in Georgia infections was genuine or not, the evidence that the reopening-spike lag is a moving target remains.
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Old 05-21-2020, 03:26 PM
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My point is that since there is apparently uncertainty as to how long after a state reopens there would be an expected spike in infections, it's very difficult to test the theory that there should be a spike.
I understand. So let's say that there wasn't a spike in Georgia for discussion sake. What could account for that in particular in Georgia? Would you extrapolate that finding to other places?
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Old 05-21-2020, 03:27 PM
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twats in the media
Let's not refer to anyone as a "twat" or any other vulgar synonym for a woman's genitals outside of the Pit, please.
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Old 05-21-2020, 03:28 PM
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Yeah, but that's Denmark which, IIRC has about 5 million people, a huge landmass, and border controls. Imagine West Virginia with border controls. It's no wonder that they can control the spread.

You just cannot extrapolate that to a Florida or a Texas with no border controls so that sick New Yorkers can flock there for a beach vacation.
You might want to choose a different example. While your population figure is close, the "huge landmass" is not. Population density is much higher in Denmark than West Virginia, or, for that matter, Sweden.

Denmark: population 5.8 million
347 people/sq. mile

W. Virginia: population 1.7 million
75 people/sq. mile

Sweden: population 10 million
64 people/sq. mile

Last edited by nelliebly; 05-21-2020 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 05-21-2020, 03:37 PM
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I understand. So let's say that there wasn't a spike in Georgia for discussion sake. What could account for that in particular in Georgia? Would you extrapolate that finding to other places?
I don't know the answer to either of these questions.
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Old 05-21-2020, 04:19 PM
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Let's not refer to anyone as a "twat" or any other vulgar synonym for a woman's genitals outside of the Pit, please.
Points both well taken. I did not think of the synonym for female genitalia when I said it. I apologize for that word's use.
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Old 05-21-2020, 05:07 PM
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I don't know the answer to either of these questions.
Thanks for the candor, but that's the point of the exercise. It's to determine what's working and what's not working by looking at the infection rates to determine if what's working can be applied to other States.

I have some guesses about Georgia from watching the opening when it happened. But I'm not from Georgia, so I'd be interested to know if anyone has more knowledge about how the reopening went.

Because Georgia opened so early, people were pretty wary. The mayor of Atlanta told people to stay home. 120 restaurants decided not to open. Only about 12 restaurants opened.

Because the bulk of the restaurant businesses didn't open right away, the change in infection rates might not have shown the increase you'd expect with people getting together.

I don't have much more information about the other businesses. It would be interesting to see if their economy starts to boom. That would require more explanation as to why their economy picked up without the increase in cases, if that's true.
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Old 05-21-2020, 06:44 PM
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There's a lot of weird things to wonder about. Like, why isn't reckless Florida not suffering magnitudes more than pretty proactive California?
California v Florida deaths/million
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Old 05-22-2020, 04:48 AM
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There's a lot of weird things to wonder about. Like, why isn't reckless Florida not suffering magnitudes more than pretty proactive California?
California v Florida deaths/million
Wonders never cease. My holiday is over.
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Old 05-22-2020, 09:11 AM
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Because Georgia opened so early, people were pretty wary. The mayor of Atlanta told people to stay home. 120 restaurants decided not to open. Only about 12 restaurants opened.

Because the bulk of the restaurant businesses didn't open right away, the change in infection rates might not have shown the increase you'd expect with people getting together.
I saw a bit of confirmation that my theory might have played out to some extent. In this youtube of Morning Joe, Steve Rattner says that Georgians started to slowly leave their homes, but it was not anywhere near back to normal levels. The graph is much more gradual and doesn't get anywhere near how it was before. It actually didn't move all that much higher from pre-lockdown levels.

In addition, on another graph, the effects of this on consumer spending was evident. Spending was at a bottom ebb right before the stimulus checks, then slightly going up after the stimulus checks went out, but not a significant increase after that. Also, job openings are only slightly higher after the lockdowns were lifted.

The act of lifting the lockdowns isn't going to be indicative of a bigger spread of infection until people actually do go out again. At the same time, the economy won't start recovering until people feel comfortable in spending more money. Except for the stimulus money, people haven't increased their spending from lockdown levels.
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Old 05-22-2020, 09:17 AM
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If cases begin to rise again I do not see it as a second wave, but only because the initial wave of infection and death is far from over.

To have a second wave it seems to me you would first have to be in a position where it was not only under control, but very much declining. What little decline there has been is largely attributable to just two states, take those out and you still have a full on pandemic.
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Old 05-22-2020, 09:40 AM
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I know you like your research, Roo. There are a number of groups putting together mobility reports. Here's Google's:
https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/
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Old 05-22-2020, 09:50 AM
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I saw a bit of confirmation that my theory might have played out to some extent. In this youtube of Morning Joe, Steve Rattner says that Georgians started to slowly leave their homes, but it was not anywhere near back to normal levels. The graph is much more gradual and doesn't get anywhere near how it was before. It actually didn't move all that much higher from pre-lockdown levels.
I meant that it didn't move much higher than lockdown levels, not pre-lockdown levels.

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What little decline there has been is largely attributable to just two states, take those out and you still have a full on pandemic.
Which two states?

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I know you like your research, Roo. There are a number of groups putting together mobility reports. Here's Google's:
https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/
I've seen those, thanks.
  #38  
Old 05-22-2020, 10:08 AM
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Which two states?
New York and New Jersey - these seem to be the only ones that have got largely over the first wave after horrendous figures.

Of the other states that have currrently low rates of infection and death, nearly all of those have not had that much of a pandemic in the first place, but.........

There is a large middle ground of states where the situation is just bumping along - according to NY times and a handful where they are increasing - around 32 states.

That is reflected in the number of new cases across the US as a whole, which appears to be declining slowly but actually masks the fact that most of that decline in in a small number of states.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-us-cases.html

Last edited by casdave; 05-22-2020 at 10:10 AM.
  #39  
Old 05-22-2020, 10:16 AM
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Oh. Well if you look at the Georgia report, there's definitely upward movement in Retail/Recreation which includes restaurants. Still down 20% from the baseline but up a lot since April 24th. Grocery/pharmacy never went down super bad but it's basically at baseline now. Parks is now way above baseline - it flipped almost immediately. Workplace seems to be continuing a slow increase which started before the lockdown was lifted.

https://www.gstatic.com/covid19/mobi..._Report_en.pdf

Last edited by CarnalK; 05-22-2020 at 10:17 AM.
  #40  
Old 05-26-2020, 01:35 AM
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If cases begin to rise again I do not see it as a second wave, but only because the initial wave of infection and death is far from over.

To have a second wave it seems to me you would first have to be in a position where it was not only under control, but very much declining. What little decline there has been is largely attributable to just two states, take those out and you still have a full on pandemic.
what little decline? It has declined significantly from peak. It's gone from doubling every 2 days to doubling every 140 days. In that time a significant percentage of people will already have gotten the virus and we have improved treatment and testing.

We are far from a full-on pandemic. The goal of stabilizing hospital care has been achieved.
  #41  
Old 05-26-2020, 11:45 AM
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Then I guess it's time to party. Enjoy your wading pools, may I recommend a nice conga line for afters?
  #42  
Old 05-26-2020, 12:51 PM
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Then I guess it's time to party. Enjoy your wading pools, may I recommend a nice conga line for afters?
A less snarky response would be to say it's time for the millions of people who are losing their livelihood to go back to work based on the numbers.

A lot of businesses are never coming back and people need to rebuild their lives.
  #43  
Old 05-26-2020, 12:59 PM
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Since almost no one in Texas was being tested during the stay-at-home, it doesn't seem surprising at all that the rates are going up.
  #44  
Old 05-26-2020, 02:36 PM
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Since almost no one in Texas was being tested during the stay-at-home, it doesn't seem surprising at all that the rates are going up.

The rates are going down
.

Here are the number of deaths for the last 5 days
5/22 - 26
5/23 - 15
5/24 - 8
5/25 - 7
5/26 - 0 0 but end of day not available
  #45  
Old 05-26-2020, 08:00 PM
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Since almost no one in Texas was being tested during the stay-at-home, it doesn't seem surprising at all that the rates are going up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magiver View Post

The rates are going down
.

Here are the number of deaths for the last 5 days
5/22 - 26
5/23 - 15
5/24 - 8
5/25 - 7
5/26 - 0 0 but end of day not available
Actually I was referring to the total number of cases diagnosed, not deaths. And diagnosed cases are continuing to go up, but it seems clear that this is because some people are now able to be tested. (Not everyone, regardless of what is being claimed, but some.)
  #46  
Old 05-26-2020, 08:30 PM
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A less snarky response would be to say it's time for the millions of people who are losing their livelihood to go back to work based on the numbers.
Why would I say that? It's not my opinion, nor is it correct.

Quote:
A lot of businesses are never coming back and people need to rebuild their lives.
'kay. Do not say you were not warned.
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  #47  
Old 05-26-2020, 09:34 PM
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Actually I was referring to the total number of cases diagnosed, not deaths. And diagnosed cases are continuing to go up, but it seems clear that this is because some people are now able to be tested. (Not everyone, regardless of what is being claimed, but some.)
total number of cases diagnosed is always an upward number. The daily cases are fluctuating within limits. Not sure where the trend is on this but it's not anything wild. There are some hot spots within Texas that are probably on an upward trend.

5/22 - 1109
5/23 - 869
5/24 - 681
5/25 - 527
5/26 -1051
  #48  
Old 05-26-2020, 09:43 PM
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Why would I say that? It's not my opinion, nor is it correct.
OK, it's not your opinion. but it's still correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tooth View Post
'kay. Do not say you were not warned.
warned about what? what are you predicting will happen?

Last edited by Magiver; 05-26-2020 at 09:43 PM.
  #49  
Old 05-27-2020, 08:49 AM
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Never mind. Nothing will happen. In 15 days it will disappear like a miracle.
  #50  
Old 05-27-2020, 09:51 AM
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Never mind. Nothing will happen. In 15 days it will disappear like a miracle.
So, to some up your posts, something will happen, we've been warned. No specific prediction and no cites.

OK. In the mean time we'll continue to look at the actual numbers and react as needed knowing nobody on the entire planet is expecting a miracle on June 10th or any other date.

Thanks.
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