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Old 05-15-2020, 10:01 AM
k9bfriender is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,933
Originally Posted by Kearsen1 View Post
No problem with that whatsoever.

I do have problems with k9befrienders default stance that the failure of the student is to be blamed solely on the school , teacher, and parents.
I mean, yeah. Those are the ones who are responsible for the environment and education of the child. The child is not responsible for their environment. There are others that I would blame as well, but it is hard for me to blame a person who had no agency or choice in their environment or treatment on how they turned out.

If your argument is that a child can be failed so thoroughly by their schools, teachers, and parents that they require an unacceptable level of resources to catch them up, then sadly, I have to agree, there will be those who cannot be reasonably salvaged. At the very least though, we owe it to those that we failed that they did not fail in vain, and that *we* have learned something from our failure.

There are also people who just are not going to be smart or capable enough to accomplish much more than basic educational goals. That's a whole different issue and topic, as to how we treat disabled people with dignity and allow them to pursue a fulfilling life.

But I do think that people should be given the chance, at any stage of life, to go back and acquire an education that will make them a more productive member of society. Maybe they don't get their act together until their 30's or something.

If those same students, who have no idea how to study, put forth effort and allot time efficiently, then you are paying for free college for those same students who failed miserably in high school to fail again in college.
Parents who did poorly in school tend to have kids who do not know how to study, put forth effort, or allot time efficiently. Maybe that is also something that should be emphasized in schools.
All simply because you need to grant them opportunity to higher learning. They didn't learn or put forth the effort to learn the lower learning, why do they need higher learning, especially paid for by others?
To make them more productive citizens. It not only improves their lives, it also improves their communities. How much does it cost to give them this education, vs how much does it cost to provide them assistance to live on when they do not have the education needed to support themselves with a living wage.
Ultimately the student, and the student alone becomes the sole advocate of and for the student.
Ultimately, sure, but not initially, and not during the vast majority of the time when they are a student. Really, they only become a sole advocate for themselves *after* they are no longer eligible to be a student in the free public system.
There is a reason why default rates closely correlate to age. A lot of kids aren't ready to be an adult at the age of 18. Maybe allow free community college at the age of 25 or something?
Why make them wait? Community college is not just remedial classes, it also provides training in various vocational trades, if that is where you are heading, or provides the basis to go on to a 4 year degree. If people want to wait until 25 (or later), they should be able to, but they shouldn't have to if they are ready to progress.

Last edited by k9bfriender; 05-15-2020 at 10:03 AM. Reason: formatting
Old 05-15-2020, 10:35 AM
puddleglum's Avatar
puddleglum is offline
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: a van down by the river
Posts: 7,089
Originally Posted by Ruken View Post
Less selective doesn't mean poor quality. You're effectively equating the incoming students with the quality of the institution and the education it is providing. The end result is to make college more expensive and less accessible for students who can't get into Harvard.
There is no magic method of teaching that only the best colleges know. The difference between a good college and a bad college is the quality of the students. That is why colleges try to get the best students and don't select them randomly.

The whole purpose of college is to show who the smart and conscientious people are. Having a degree from a good school shows you were smart enough to pass the entry criteria and conscientious enough to study for four years.
Old 05-15-2020, 10:37 AM
Cheesesteak's Avatar
Cheesesteak is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Lovely Montclair, NJ
Posts: 14,258
Originally Posted by puddleglum View Post
The whole purpose of college is to show who the smart and conscientious people are.
Seems pretty rude to charge hundreds of thousands of dollars for this service.


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