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  #51  
Old 05-26-2019, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
At no time did I say that this flood took place any time in the past.
You're absolutely right, you didn't. So I am curious as to why you mentioned cubits, a measurement which by any reasonable definition hasn't been in use for a good 200 years.
  #52  
Old 05-26-2019, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Lucas Jackson View Post
Thats a lot of wine drinkin’. OK smart guy, where did all the pee go?

In a toilet/urinal (or sink for the barbarians), duh.
  #53  
Old 05-26-2019, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
At no time did I say that this flood took place any time in the past.
You didn't have to.

I've noticed before that you like to be "cute" and try to sneak things in without actually explicitly saying so. Anybody with the slightest knowledge of the world's religions knows exactly what you're doing and what you're referring to.

You've been around long enough to know that the innocent guise and the "just asking questions" excuse doesn't cut it around here.
  #54  
Old 05-26-2019, 09:44 AM
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My question would be........

WHERE would all this excess water come from that would be needed to actually flood an entire planet?

There isn't enough water on this planet to flood it. Even if all the mountains were leveled, you would still have land sticking out from the water. You would need more water than this planet has, in order to flood it.
  #55  
Old 05-26-2019, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
At no time did I say that this flood took place any time in the past.
Moderating

Let's not be disingenuous. Your reference to 40 days and 40 cubits obviously refers to a specific flood described in a specific literary source.

It's OK to ask the question as a hypothetical, but I'm sure you already knew that the event described is scientifically impossible, not just on the basis of rainfall but on a dozen other grounds. You can't ask the question in the way you did and expect people not to bring up other features of the event as described.

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Last edited by Colibri; 05-26-2019 at 10:01 AM.
  #56  
Old 05-26-2019, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by chaidragonfire View Post
My question would be........

WHERE would all this excess water come from that would be needed to actually flood an entire planet?

There isn't enough water on this planet to flood it. Even if all the mountains were leveled, you would still have land sticking out from the water. You would need more water than this planet has, in order to flood it.
Rings of Saturn? Isn't there a lot of ice floating around the solar system?
  #57  
Old 05-26-2019, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by chaidragonfire View Post
My question would be........

WHERE would all this excess water come from that would be needed to actually flood an entire planet?

There isn't enough water on this planet to flood it. Even if all the mountains were leveled, you would still have land sticking out from the water. You would need more water than this planet has, in order to flood it.
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Rings of Saturn? Isn't there a lot of ice floating around the solar system?
Posts 9 and 41 address this.
  #58  
Old 05-26-2019, 11:55 AM
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Subsequent questions.

Would the increased precipitation increase continental weathering that would lead to a snowball earth?

Would there be slushball oceans?

I think that these would affect how long it would take to get the job done.
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  #59  
Old 05-26-2019, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by chaidragonfire View Post
My question would be........

WHERE would all this excess water come from that would be needed to actually flood an entire planet?

There isn't enough water on this planet to flood it. Even if all the mountains were leveled, you would still have land sticking out from the water. You would need more water than this planet has, in order to flood it.
That is debatable: https://www.newscientist.com/article...-no-mountains/.
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  #60  
Old 05-26-2019, 12:31 PM
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There are several mistaken assumptions in the OP's question. One, as kanicbird pointed out, is ignoring other sources of water.

Another is ignoring changes in world-wide climate.

Yet another is assuming that the height of the highest mountain today is similar to what it was at the time in question.

It's easy to calculate what the answer would be in today's world. Whether that answer bears even a passing resemblance to the correct answer at the time that the earth was actually flooded is another matter entirely.
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Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 View Post
Ummm.

Do you believe that the planet was ACTUALLY flooded, or are you just being extra diligent about not fighting the hypothetical, here?
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Originally Posted by Darren Garrison View Post
Among many other things, flyer is a Young-Earth Creationist.
o_o

>_<

o_O

Oh dear.
  #61  
Old 05-26-2019, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 View Post
o_o

>_<

o_O

Oh dear.


How soon you forget...
  #62  
Old 05-26-2019, 01:32 PM
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How heavy would it have to rain to flood the Earth in 40 days?


And in related news, is it likely anyone with an ark might have been prepared for that much rain?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3847fb4418.jpg

https://theprovince.com/news/world/n...d-213dad54c136

Last edited by Biffster; 05-26-2019 at 01:33 PM.
  #63  
Old 05-27-2019, 12:32 PM
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Mt. Everest is 29,029 ft. Divide that by 40 days, 24 hours per day and 60 minute per hour. I get 6” of rain per minute.

A quick google search shows the record rainfall in one minute is 1.22”.
Assuming it is all water from above (none of Kanicbird's Biblical fountains) - could a wooden boat survive 40 days of that pounding? Heck, could a steel boat? I think I'd want a submarine.
  #64  
Old 05-27-2019, 01:21 PM
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Of course, volumes may have been measured in square inches at the time the earth actually flooded. There's just no way to know.
If we're measuring depths in cubits, I don't see why we can't measure volumes in squarits.
  #65  
Old 05-27-2019, 01:31 PM
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Is there space between the raindrops at that rate?
If there weren't, the Earth would be flooded instantly. Rain with no space between the drops is called an ocean.
  #66  
Old 05-27-2019, 01:45 PM
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So yeah, the op is being a bit coy. Obviously he is trying to prove the Biblical flood could not have happened.

However, he is quite wrong.

Let's look at it from two ways- the mythical and the rational;
Mythical. If we postulate a Supernatural or super-scientific being capable of creating a whole planet in a couple of days, said being would have no problem with creating enough water to flood the earth. And of course the water came up, as well as down, the the rain might not even be that heavy.

Rational: What is a "world"? We say today "rock my world" "He meant the world to me" and other such phrases when you mean less the the entirety of the planet Earth. The Tigris Euphrates plain had several great floods in Biblical times, floods so great they flooded those peoples entire known world*. Not to mention, there has been theorized a vast flood in the Black Sea area https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/ev...ry?id=17884533 where the locals certainly would have thought their whole world had flooded. Of course it's just not the Bible that contains the flood myth, the Epic of Gilgamesh also contains a similar tale, and there are others. So, yes, the Genesis flood is a myth built upon a legend of a vast flood, a flood so big that it became a myth or legend in several narratives.

* https://ncse.com/library-resource/ye...er-whole-earth
Conclusions
If the 3.4-meter–thick layer of flood deposits in southeastern Mesopotamia (MacDonald 1988) represents a huge flood of ancient times, and if it is the remnants of the one described in the early Babylonian epics, then the authors of these epics were likely survivors who lived in a village on natural levees on the lower parts of either the Euphrates or Tigris Rivers where the flood waters covered their village, natural levees, and adjacent flood plains for distances of 160 to 320 kilometers so that no land could be seen, and their "whole world" would have been under water.
  #67  
Old 05-27-2019, 05:12 PM
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Suppose "somehow" all the water in the ocean basins- Pacific, Atlantic, Indian, Arctic, etc.- was splashed up onto the continents. I presume the total volume of water would be sufficient to inundate them, and the rain could simply be ocean water coming down after being hurled into the atmosphere. How long would it take to flow back into the ocean basins? (Although in that case I doubt there'd be any continents left, given that the mere drainage of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Missoula created the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channeled_Scablands)

P.S. ask a biblical literalist if the Flood erased the Garden of Eden or not.

Last edited by Lumpy; 05-27-2019 at 05:13 PM.
  #68  
Old 05-27-2019, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Obviously he is trying to prove the Biblical flood could not have happened.

However, he is quite wrong...

So, yes, the Genesis flood is a myth built upon a legend of a vast flood, a flood so big that it became a myth or legend in several narratives.
You say it's a myth - that some substantial regional event may have occurred, but not literally as the biblical account describes. Then how is the OP "quite wrong" to have said exactly the same thing?

All I can make of this it that you're suggesting that OP is attacking a straw man, that nobody takes the biblical account seriously, that obviously it's a myth rather than a truth claim?

Last edited by Riemann; 05-27-2019 at 05:19 PM.
  #69  
Old 05-27-2019, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 View Post
o_o

>_<

o_O

Oh dear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren Garrison View Post
On the one hand, your point is well-taken.

OTOH, a year and a half (give or take) doesn’t strike me as all that soon.
  #70  
Old 05-27-2019, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Riemann View Post
You say it's a myth - that some substantial regional event may have occurred, but not literally as the biblical account describes. Then how is the OP "quite wrong" to have said exactly the same thing?

All I can make of this it that you're suggesting that OP is attacking a straw man, that nobody takes the biblical account seriously, that obviously it's a myth rather than a truth claim?
He didnt say anything of the sort. he was "just asking questions"

Yes, that is exactly it.
  #71  
Old 05-28-2019, 01:49 AM
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And what the hell kind of clouds could supply the planet with that much rain?
You mean, What the HEAVEN kind of clouds.. The source of the rain was explicitly stated, you know.



As for OP's question about boiling temperatures:
No.
With the global sealevel raised 29000 feet, the atmosphere is just "shoved" up by the same amount.
Air pressure would be very very very nearly the same.

The changes in earth mass, sealevel distance from center of mass, scale height of atmosphere, volume of atmosphere would all change, but by **so** small fractions that the difference slip between the cracks in this, admittedly, very cracked scenario.
  #72  
Old 05-28-2019, 07:59 AM
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Air pressure after the rain, once everything has had a chance to get back into equilibrium, will be very very very nearly the same.

But air pressure during the rain will be higher.
  #73  
Old 05-28-2019, 08:06 AM
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A Great Article on the Subject

Quote:
The volume of a sphere is easy to calculate: V = 4/3πrł

The earth has a radius of 3959 miles. Now we need to know the radius of the flood. That’s the earth radius, plus the height of Everest, plus 15 cubits (22ft). So 3959 miles + 29,028 ft +22 feet = 3959 miles + 29050 feet = 3959 miles + 5.5018939 miles = 3964.5018939 miles

If we plug those two radii in to our volume formula, we get the volumes:

259,923,241,564 milesł for the volume of the earth.

261,008,408,332 milesł for the volume of the earth at flood.

So, if we subtract the earth volume from the flood volume, we’ll get the volume of water required to fill that space. That’s how much it would need to rain. That turns out to be 1,085,166,768 milesłof rain.
I think we're talking inches per second here.
  #74  
Old 05-28-2019, 08:08 AM
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And what the hell kind of clouds could supply the planet with that much rain?
Never been to Wales, have you?
  #75  
Old 05-28-2019, 09:39 AM
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A Great Article on the Subject

I think we're talking inches per second here.
No, that's a terrible article. Try reading this thread.

It's a hallmark of bad estimation to use a wildly inappropriate number of significant figures to make a calculation seem impressive (Mr Spock, I'm looking at you).

In fact, as noted by TokyoBayer at post #6, it's a trivial matter to calculate the required rainfall rate without volume calculations. It is 6" per minute.

The writer of that article pulls a figure of 25% out of his backside to adjust for the volume of land. This is wrong by an order of magnitude. See post #42 - a quick estimate using an average elevation figure that took me just a couple of minutes to find on Wikipedia shows that the volume of land requires an adjustment of only ~3%.

Last edited by Riemann; 05-28-2019 at 09:43 AM.
  #76  
Old 05-28-2019, 10:42 AM
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As far as using sea level as a starting point for calculations, what about the grand canyon? Is that below sea level? If so, it'll need to be filled, too.
  #77  
Old 05-28-2019, 10:45 AM
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As far as using sea level as a starting point for calculations, what about the grand canyon? Is that below sea level? If so, it'll need to be filled, too.
The bottom of the Grand Canyon is above sea level (it has the Colorado River in it, which flows downhill to the sea - or nearly to the sea, these days). There are quite a few areas of land that are below sea level around the world, but none of them are especially big or all that deep, so they won't make too much difference to the calculations. (And in fact they are presumably taken into account in the figures for average land elevation already.)
  #78  
Old 05-28-2019, 10:47 AM
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I get 6” of rain per minute.
I'd keep playing. I don't think the heavy stuff will come down for quite a while.
  #79  
Old 05-28-2019, 11:05 AM
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As far as using sea level as a starting point for calculations, what about the grand canyon? Is that below sea level? If so, it'll need to be filled, too.
Well you'd have to fill it up whatever the elevation, right?

But the order of magnitude of the size of the Grand Canyon is 10 miles wide, a mile deep, 100 miles long, so ~10^3 cubic miles.

Whereas the area of earth is ~200 million square miles, and Everest is ~5 miles high, so we're considering filling a volume of ~10^9 cubic miles, or a million Grand Canyons.

Last edited by Riemann; 05-28-2019 at 11:06 AM.
  #80  
Old 05-28-2019, 12:10 PM
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One thing to note is that the Earth is smoother than a billiard ball. Minor variations like most mountain ranges, Death Valley, the Dead Sea, etc. are low order noise in the calculation. (And ~3/4 of the Earth is about sea level anyway.) The only point that matters is the top of Everest (plus 15 cubits).

Claiming that Everest wasn't nearly as tall then as now requires an explanation for all the energy required to raise it to it's current height within a very short period of time, geologically speaking. The heat produced would have been amazing.

All this flood stuff requires a huge amount of water magically coming from someplace, magically going to someplace and all magically not killing off either all the salt water fish or all the fresh water fish. And several zillion other magically's.
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