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Old 04-26-2018, 06:27 PM
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God and Life

I read a lot of debates around here between theists and non-theists, but there is one topic I really haven't seen discussed much. I suppose it's more of a pantheistic belief, but it is certainly one I lean toward. Here goes...

A little spirituality for today, courtesy of Neale Donald Walsh. Do you believe in life? Are you alive whether you believe in life or not? Does it really matter whether or not you believe in life? An interesting read.

Quote:
My dear friends,

What if the words "God" and "life" are interchangeable? Wouldn't that make for an extraordinary spiritual cosmology?

The implications are—if it's possible to imagine this—more than enormous. They're staggering, earth shaking, paradigm-shattering. This is because everyone knows what is true about life. Everyone may not know what is true about God, but everyone knows what is true about life.

What is true about life is that nothing stands outside of life. Nothing exists without life, and life does not exist if nothing exists.

[...removed rest of copy/paste...]
https://spiritlibrary.com/neale-dona...n-god-and-life

Last edited by Bone; 04-26-2018 at 07:39 PM. Reason: Deleted large copy/paste for fair use and added quote tags
  #2  
Old 04-26-2018, 07:00 PM
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What if the words "God" and "life" are interchangeable?
Then the word "God" becomes meaningless in any other sense than as a synonym for "life."

God Insurance.
Lifedamn it!
God without parole.
Hitler! (Damn, Lifewin'd the thread.)
Godsavers candy.
Are You There, Life? It's Me, Margaret.
God of the party.

ETA: I see that is a quote from a book, not your own thoughts, so I don't have to worry about it being considered a personal attack to call it a gigantic steaming pile of worthless bullshit from an addlepated simpleton.

Last edited by Darren Garrison; 04-26-2018 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:07 PM
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Then the word "God" becomes meaningless in any other sense than as a synonym for "life."

God Insurance.
Lifedamn it!
God without parole.
Hitler! (Damn, Lifewin'd the thread.)
Godsavers candy.
Are You There, Life? It's Me, Margaret.
God of the party.

ETA: I see that is a quote from a book, not your own thoughts, so I don't have to worry about it being considered a personal attack to call it a gigantic steaming pile of worthless bullshit from an addlepated simpleton.
I wouldn't go so far as "gigantic steaming pile" but yes, it is the opinion of the author of the books, Conversations With God. I quite like his approach to religious thought and it helps me make a lot of sense of the religious divisiveness I see in the world. Do you believe in Life? Does it matter whether or not you worship Life? Are you sill alive even if you don't accept Life as your personal saviour? I think there is much more to this idea than you're giving credit for. So far.
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:11 PM
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I wouldn't go so far as "gigantic steaming pile" but yes, it is the opinion of the author of the books, Conversations With God. I quite like his approach to religious thought and it helps me make a lot of sense of the religious divisiveness I see in the world. Do you believe in Life? Does it matter whether or not you worship Life? Are you sill alive even if you don't accept Life as your personal saviour? I think there is much more to this idea than you're giving credit for. So far.
I think that both that excerpt and this comment are 100% pure deepity.
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:57 AM
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I wouldn't go so far as "gigantic steaming pile" but yes, it is the opinion of the author of the books, Conversations With God. I quite like his approach to religious thought
Many years ago, I read Walsch's first Conversations with God book, or at least tried to—I don't remember whether I made it all the way through, and I was left with absolutely no desire to read any of his other books.

My impression, near as I can remember, was that some of the things he said when he was speaking for and about himself, in his own voice, might actually have been worth reading, and I wished he had just stuck with that. But when he claimed to speak for God, and went all "God said this to me"—the "God" he presented wasn't one that I or any other traditional theist (Christian, Jew, Muslim) would recognize, and from their perspective, what he was doing might be considered blasphemy, idolatry (making up his own god to worship), or false prophecy (claiming to speak for God).
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:19 PM
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I think that both that excerpt and this comment are 100% pure deepity.

Well then, thank you for your contribution. I learned a new word today.
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:23 PM
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Does it matter whether or not you worship Life? Are you sill alive even if you don't accept Life as your personal saviour?
What do these things mean?

Last edited by Ambivalid; 04-26-2018 at 07:24 PM.
  #8  
Old 04-26-2018, 07:27 PM
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What do these things mean?
That someone is really bad at Mad-Libs?
  #9  
Old 04-26-2018, 07:20 PM
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I'm too busy wondering if the atoms in my hand are miniature galaxies filled with people staring at their hands and wondering...

To settle this matter, the words "God" and "life" happen not to be interchangeable according to any/every dictionary.

edited to add: And another thank you for the "deepity" link.

Last edited by Czarcasm; 04-26-2018 at 07:21 PM.
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Old 04-26-2018, 08:57 PM
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I'm too busy wondering if the atoms in my hand are miniature galaxies filled with people staring at their hands and wondering...
Waoh, dude! You just blew my mind! Life only knows how I will go on after this!
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Old 04-27-2018, 01:49 AM
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I'm too busy wondering if the atoms in my hand are miniature galaxies filled with people staring at their hands and wondering...
No, the atoms in your hand each contain the entirety of this universe, in which they reside. It is not a stack of turtles, it is recursive. You really need better acid, man.
  #12  
Old 04-27-2018, 02:22 AM
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No, the atoms in your hand each contain the entirety of this universe, in which they reside. It is not a stack of turtles, it is recursive. You really need better acid, man.
My acid is fine, thank you very much-You need to find a typeface that doesn't glow in the dark.
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:33 PM
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If life is God, then a lot of religious people claim that God created God, and that God offers eternal God to those who reach the aftergod.

God, God is confusing. FMG anyway.
  #14  
Old 04-26-2018, 07:39 PM
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Merrily, merrily, merrily, God is but dream.

Last edited by Darren Garrison; 04-26-2018 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:42 PM
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Merrily, merrily, merrily, God is but dream.
God finds a way.
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Biffster View Post
I read a lot of debates around here between theists and non-theists, but there is one topic I really haven't seen discussed much. I suppose it's more of a pantheistic belief, but it is certainly one I lean toward. Here goes...

A little spirituality for today, courtesy of Neale Donald Walsh. Do you believe in life? Are you alive whether you believe in life or not? Does it really matter whether or not you believe in life? An interesting read.



https://spiritlibrary.com/neale-dona...n-god-and-life
Please observe fair use and do not copy entire large articles.

[/moderating]
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:59 PM
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Walsh's questions and thoughts, when read much more carefully than he seems to have intended, actually form a pretty nice takedown of all religions in general.
  #18  
Old 04-26-2018, 08:14 PM
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What do these things mean?

I take it to mean if we regard God as a life force instead of a human being we created in our own image (with all the personal baggage that entails), then our need to do the things religions typically require, like worship, disappear. Just keep on living life and enjoying it. Makes a lot of sense to me.
  #19  
Old 04-26-2018, 08:22 PM
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For profound sounding phrases I prefer "God is a verb". I didn't like it well enough to buy the book, though. And I think the phrase is older than the book.
  #20  
Old 04-26-2018, 08:16 PM
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Merrily, merrily, merrily, God is but dream.


Truer than you might realize.
  #21  
Old 04-26-2018, 08:17 PM
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Please observe fair use and do not copy entire large articles.



[/moderating]


It's an excerpt from a much longer book, but thanks for your input.
  #22  
Old 04-26-2018, 08:19 PM
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Walsh's questions and thoughts, when read much more carefully than he seems to have intended, actually form a pretty nice takedown of all religions in general.

I agree. It may seem simplistic on the surface, but it explains a lot without all of the semantic shoving matches that often ensue in religious discussions.
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Old 04-26-2018, 08:23 PM
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I agree. It may seem simplistic on the surface, but it explains a lot without all of the semantic shoving matches that often ensue in religious discussions.
You mean, he IS actually an atheist who's posing as a religious writer to get his point across? I'm not familiar with him but it's the impression I got from what you posted.
  #24  
Old 04-30-2018, 03:15 AM
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You mean, he IS actually an atheist who's posing as a religious writer to get his point across? I'm not familiar with him but it's the impression I got from what you posted.
Not necessarily. He could simply subscribe to a concept of the Divine which supposes that religion is an inappropriate human response to It.
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Old 04-26-2018, 09:08 PM
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I agree. It may seem simplistic on the surface, but it explains a lot without all of the semantic shoving matches that often ensue in religious discussions.
Actually, it explains nothing. It just hand waves a bunch of things and provides no insights into how to live your life.
  #26  
Old 04-26-2018, 08:49 PM
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What if the words "God" and "life" are interchangeable? Wouldn't that make for an extraordinary spiritual cosmology?
Counterpoint: what if the words "God" and "Wankel Rotary Engine" are interchangeable? Wouldn't that make working on a late '60s Mazda a religious service?
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Old 04-26-2018, 08:59 PM
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Counterpoint: what if the words "God" and "Wankel Rotary Engine" are interchangeable? Wouldn't that make working on a late '60s Mazda a religious service?
This freaks me right out. That would mean I was given the gift of God at 17 by my parents. A 1986 RX-7 powered by God!
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Old 04-26-2018, 09:46 PM
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Counterpoint: what if the words "God" and "Wankel Rotary Engine" are interchangeable?
God...high hopes but disappointing results.
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Old 04-26-2018, 10:04 PM
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God...high hopes but disappointing results.
Sing it. Worst car god ever.
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Old 04-26-2018, 10:12 PM
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Sing it. Worst car god ever.
Nah, it brought me much joy for a while then left me stranded in the rain. So it still fits.
  #31  
Old 04-26-2018, 09:09 PM
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I read a lot of debates around here between theists and non-theists, but there is one topic I really haven't seen discussed much. I suppose it's more of a pantheistic belief, but it is certainly one I lean toward. Here goes...

A little spirituality for today, courtesy of Neale Donald Walsh. Do you believe in life? Are you alive whether you believe in life or not? Does it really matter whether or not you believe in life? An interesting read.
Allow me to address the first part of your quote:
Quote:
My dear friends,

What if the words "God" and "life" are interchangeable? Wouldn't that make for an extraordinary spiritual cosmology?
He can "what if" all he wants. The terms are not interchangeable. Life can be proven to exist. God cannot. End of discussion.
  #32  
Old 04-27-2018, 08:06 AM
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Allow me to address the first part of your quote:

He can "what if" all he wants. The terms are not interchangeable. Life can be proven to exist. God cannot. End of discussion.
It feels to me like that's sort of the intent of the argument - to handwave the arguability of God away with a 'yes, but what if...'

Which I think it just another way of saying "Except for all the objections you have, what's your objection?"

Last edited by Mangetout; 04-27-2018 at 08:06 AM.
  #33  
Old 04-27-2018, 09:31 AM
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I can't see how the idea is anything other than complete gibberish. I'm glad the Wankel analogy has some traction, it makes just as much sense.
  #34  
Old 04-26-2018, 10:22 PM
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For profound sounding phrases I prefer "God is a verb". I didn't like it well enough to buy the book, though. And I think the phrase is older than the book.

I like that idea. Kind of gives us a little more accountability.
  #35  
Old 04-26-2018, 10:24 PM
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You mean, he IS actually an atheist who's posing as a religious writer to get his point across? I'm not familiar with him but it's the impression I got from what you posted.


I certainly wouldn't describe him as an atheist. He believes in God—just not the same God you might find in the Bible.
  #36  
Old 04-26-2018, 10:26 PM
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Counterpoint: what if the words "God" and "Wankel Rotary Engine" are interchangeable? Wouldn't that make working on a late '60s Mazda a religious service?

Good point. I think.
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Old 04-26-2018, 10:28 PM
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Actually, it explains nothing. It just hand waves a bunch of things and provides no insights into how to live your life.

Why do you assume that? Are there some actions that are more life-affirming than others?
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Old 04-26-2018, 11:19 PM
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Why do you assume that? Are there some actions that are more life-affirming than others?
I don't assume anything. I read the article and came away with the conclusion that he was full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. It's just wordplay, and poor wordplay at that.

If you define life as skiing, many actions are more life affirming than others. But it's mostly useless for someone not interested in skiing.
  #39  
Old 04-26-2018, 10:29 PM
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Allow me to address the first part of your quote:



He can "what if" all he wants. The terms are not interchangeable. Life can be proven to exist. God cannot. End of discussion.

Perhaps your definition of God needs revisiting. Or your definition of Life.
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Old 04-28-2018, 09:35 AM
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Perhaps your definition of God needs revisiting. Or your definition of Life.
Neither.
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Old 04-28-2018, 10:02 AM
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Neither.
I feel like I need to redefine the words, "agree with Clothahump".
  #42  
Old 04-28-2018, 10:05 AM
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Perhaps your definition of God needs revisiting. Or your definition of Life.
I just check several dictionaries, and it seems that "God" and "Life" still aren't synonyms...unless of course you have evidence that "God" was once the name of a board game, breakfast cereal or magazine.
  #43  
Old 04-28-2018, 10:14 AM
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I just check several dictionaries, and it seems that "God" and "Life" still aren't synonyms...unless of course you have evidence that "God" was once the name of a board game, breakfast cereal or magazine.
At one time matter and energy were defined as two separate and distinct items.
  #44  
Old 04-28-2018, 10:18 AM
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At one time matter and energy were defined as two separate and distinct items.
At one time I could ride a public bus from March AFB to downtown Los Angeles for only a $1.50.
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Old 04-28-2018, 10:31 AM
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At one time I could ride a public bus from March AFB to downtown Los Angeles for only a $1.50.
How much is it now?
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Old 04-28-2018, 10:44 AM
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At one time matter and energy were defined as two separate and distinct items.
Does it ever bother you at all that religious/theistic thought hasn't had an original idea in centuries (if not millenia), yet is completely shameless in plagiarizing & co-opting scientific concepts and discoveries without doing the hard work required to show why all of a sudden, 'God=Life=Love=Pie'?
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Old 04-28-2018, 11:03 AM
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Does it ever bother you at all that religious/theistic thought hasn't had an original idea in centuries (if not millenia), yet is completely shameless in plagiarizing & co-opting scientific concepts and discoveries without doing the hard work required to show why all of a sudden, 'God=Life=Love=Pie'?
Religious thought tries to, among other things, define universal concepts, in Buddhism it's called Dharma, so i would expect a convergence of old concepts, which I do see. Different faiths are to me glimpses of this, not the total.

Science is our understanding of our material world, which is useful to see more aspects of the dharma. As such science is scripture, it is common for religions to quote scriptures.

I don't necessarily subscribe to God = Life, but I can entertain the concept, and without being demeaning or closed minded. I can add anything I have found on this to further the debate and perhaps the support of this thought experiment, and happy to see where it leads.

If done in good faith, it should as I see it, converge to the dharma, every faith to me does. Even such ones that have started out as intentionally phony, such as the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Jedi religion, & Scientology. Even extinct ones like the Greek gods.
  #48  
Old 04-26-2018, 11:05 PM
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It's a hard-knock God for us.
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  #49  
Old 04-26-2018, 11:14 PM
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Q. How many legs does a dog have, if you call his tail a leg?
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Old 04-27-2018, 07:48 AM
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It's a hard-knock God for us.
I don't care what you say anymore, this is my God
Go ahead with your own God, leave me alone
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