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  #51  
Old 12-31-2018, 02:01 PM
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I'm getting really sick of the "all rape, all the time" aspect--yes, I realize it's Gabaldon's fault and that the showrunners are doing what they can to ameliorate it but goddamn I could do without it. RAPE RAPE RAPETTY RAPE OH LOOK HERE IS MOAR RAPE. Gross.

I also get really super sick of characters keeping vital information to themselves in order to "protect" someone. It never works and it's a lazy way to further your plot. Also gross.
  #52  
Old 12-31-2018, 02:53 PM
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I think women in the 18th century were in danger of rape a lot of the time. Unfortunate but true.

Claire and Jamie have kept information to protect each other (Claire didn't tell Jamie BJR was alive, for instance) but I think we can blame this particular situation on Bree. I think Claire and Jamie were knocked sideways by her sudden reappearance and they need time to figure out the new normal.
  #53  
Old 01-01-2019, 09:22 PM
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Women in the 21st century are in danger of rape a lot of the time too--even more so, really, because there are more people in general and nobody's in the "untouchable" categories that used to exist in society. Doesn't mean I want to see it, doesn't mean it's the only goddamned peril that can exist, doesn't mean it's the only or most defining event that drives and informs a woman's existence. It's lazy, it implies that some guy's dick, some guy's actions, simply HAVE to be the most important thing to happen to a woman. I'm a sexual abuse survivor and I find that, day to day, that informs my worldview much less than events from childhood that resulted in attachment disorder. As I said, it's lazy, and it's gross. FFS, come up with some other shorthand event, this one's tired and lame.
  #54  
Old 01-02-2019, 09:13 AM
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I can understand that rape portrayal can be traumatic for survivors. Thank you for sharing and I applaud your courage.
  #55  
Old 01-07-2019, 02:33 PM
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Poor Roger got clobbered by Da! If those people would just talk to each other. Jeez.

If only Bree had told Lizzy that the man who attacked her was NOT the man she was with at first.
If only Claire had told Jamie that Bonnet raped Bree.
  #56  
Old 01-07-2019, 05:04 PM
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I haven't seen it yet...Ivylad and I were away for a long weekend for our anniversary. I plan on watching it while he's watching some silly college football championship game.
  #57  
Old 01-07-2019, 06:04 PM
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"Bree slapped" is a new term in our house. I looked right at my wife and said, "Yeah, he deserved to get Bree-slapped."
  #58  
Old 01-07-2019, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Dolores Reborn View Post
Poor Roger got clobbered by Da! If those people would just talk to each other. Jeez.

If only Bree had told Lizzy that the man who attacked her was NOT the man she was with at first.
If only Claire had told Jamie that Bonnet raped Bree.
Then we wouldn't have a show! It's a bit more convoluted in the books...Jamie and Ian only realize who they beat up after Bree draws Roger. Also, she calls him Roger Wakefield but he's been going by Roger MacKenzie in the 18th century, so a little more dust in the eyes of our main characters.

I am SO glad Lord John is there next episode. I was hoping they'd keep that bit in.

Oh, and just wait until season 5. Poor Roger.
  #59  
Old 01-07-2019, 08:12 PM
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I was hoping they would include the scene when Jamie helps Breanna understand that she was a victim and nothing she could do would have made a difference. I remember reading it and thinking how powerful it was...and it really hit home for me.

And they did.
  #60  
Old 01-07-2019, 08:20 PM
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Sophie nailed that scene. You can see the look of realization in her eyes as she understands she could have been killed, and she was never going to overpower Bonnet. And then finding out from Jamie why he didn't fight BJR. It was a bit odd for Jamie to tell Bree that killing Bonnet may not give her peace, but then he turns around and tells Murtagh to find Bonnet so he can kill him himself.
  #61  
Old 01-14-2019, 08:06 AM
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Well, we're winding down. Just two episodes left. I have some quibbles coming from a book reader perspective.

Some of this was a bit clunky. For instance, why would Jamie write Lord John all the way in Virginia to keep an eye on Bree and give him a letter to give her? Why not just give it to Murtagh? And who is keeping an eye on the livestock while Murtagh is hunting down Bonnet?

I thought Fergus had a job, that's part of the reason they stayed in Wilmington. Now he doesn't? Losing a limb was not unheard of back then, so I don't think it would be difficult finding a job he could work at. I do love feisty Marsali.

It was great to see Bree being all I am Women Hear Me Roar with Jocasta, until Jocasta pointed out it's not just her reputation that will suffer, but also her child. Bree still has some adjusting to do to this time period.

In the book, Bree sees Lord John leaving a slave cabin in the middle of the night, not nailing a judge in the pantry. It's implied Lord John has a "consensual" relationship with the slave, but I can understand the show not wanting to open up that particular can of worms. Still, sodomy was a hanging offense so I wish the writers had shown Lord John to be a bit more discreet.

At the end of the last episode Roger is shown about to touch the standing stones, with the implication being that he's going back. The open of this episode shows him back with the Mohawk. Something got lost there in the editing.

Did anyone catch Pippin as Gerald Forbes?
  #62  
Old 01-14-2019, 08:29 AM
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I assumed he hallucinated seeing the stone, and the bathroom at the beginning of this episode?
  #63  
Old 01-14-2019, 08:53 AM
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No, he finds standing stones in America, as that will be important later. He did escape from the Mohawk.
  #64  
Old 01-17-2019, 03:13 PM
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Could I interject and ask a question as I on;y watched most of the first season and unless I missed one or two, I never understood the basic relationships premise. Before she first went into the past, did she hate her husband? Was he a jerk? I can't fathom the idea that because her husband's ancestor was a scumbag that she just falls for Jamie and decides to ditch her husband. Certainly not as fast as she did. I think I'd have to spend many years trapped in the past before I gave up on the idea that I might get back and maybe then I'd consider building a new "love" life. Please clue me in. Or is what I think I saw basically it.
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  #65  
Old 01-17-2019, 06:47 PM
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Claire was a nurse in WW2. I think the relationship could probably be called a wartime marriage. Didn't seem to be a deep abiding love match.

When she went through the stones and was forcibly married to Jamie, she fell in love with him. A true love affair between two vital people.

She only returned to Frank because she promised Jamie she'd leave rather than watch him presumably die at Culloden with his clan.

Read the books! They are well worth the time you invest.
  #66  
Old 01-18-2019, 08:35 AM
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Could I interject and ask a question as I on;y watched most of the first season and unless I missed one or two, I never understood the basic relationships premise. Before she first went into the past, did she hate her husband? Was he a jerk? I can't fathom the idea that because her husband's ancestor was a scumbag that she just falls for Jamie and decides to ditch her husband. Certainly not as fast as she did. I think I'd have to spend many years trapped in the past before I gave up on the idea that I might get back and maybe then I'd consider building a new "love" life. Please clue me in. Or is what I think I saw basically it.
No, she didn't hate Frank. They were separated due to the war and were trying to reestablish their marriage in Scotland. The show, by necessity of time, has to collapse events...for instance, in the book, Jamie and Claire spend several months at River Run with Aunt Jocasta before going out on their own. They basically have 13 hours to tell the story on Starz when the author can spend pages and pages and pages on the written story.

I think if Claire hadn't gone back through the stone she would have been content with Frank, but Jamie was her heart, her passion.

Last edited by ivylass; 01-18-2019 at 08:36 AM.
  #67  
Old 01-21-2019, 09:33 AM
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Providence

Only one episode left!

No Claire and Jamie in this one, but since all they're doing is walking to New York there's not a lot of action there. Bonnet's escape played out differently in the books, in that in the books there's no Murtagh to rescue and Bonnet's henchmen help him escape.

I can understand Roger's frustration with literally everything. He traveled through time to find Bree, reunites and marries her, storms off after a big fight, then gets kidnapped to stay on the Gloriana, makes his way BACK to Fraser's Ridge only to get beaten up by an angry father in a case of mistaken identity. He's so done with the 18th century. Then he runs into a priest who can't see past his faith to do the humane thing that would also save his life (I'm reminded of the Ray Bradbury short story about what Jesus would look like on other planets.) It's the belief that matters.

Germaine should be a toddler by now, but huzzah! Fergus and Marsali are headed to the Ridge!!
  #68  
Old 01-22-2019, 01:05 PM
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No, she didn't hate Frank. They were separated due to the war and were trying to reestablish their marriage in Scotland. The show, by necessity of time, has to collapse events...for instance, in the book, Jamie and Claire spend several months at River Run with Aunt Jocasta before going out on their own. They basically have 13 hours to tell the story on Starz when the author can spend pages and pages and pages on the written story.

I think if Claire hadn't gone back through the stone she would have been content with Frank, but Jamie was her heart, her passion.
I see but I got the impression she was pulling away from her husband due to the nastiness of his forefather, as if that should have mattered.
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  #69  
Old 01-22-2019, 02:25 PM
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I think she did have some un-attraction to Frank because of Blackjack Randall, but mostly I think it was because she was so deeply in love with Jamie.
  #70  
Old 01-22-2019, 04:42 PM
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Bottom line, Frank wasn't her soul mate. And it's only by a fluke of time travel that she did find her soul mate.
  #71  
Old 01-28-2019, 07:17 AM
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Last One of Season 4!

Well, it doesn't EXACTLY end the way Drums of Autumn does, but that's okay. Having Murtagh alive is certainly throwing a wrinkle in things.

I'm glad they did the callback to Otter Tooth. That will be important later, as will the opening scene of this episode.

Very gracious of Jamie to allow Roger to punch him a few times, all things considered. I would have liked to see Claire use the maggots on Roger, but book vs film means not all things can make it.

I simply love John Bell as Ian. What a talented young man.

And now, Droughtlander begins.
  #72  
Old 01-28-2019, 10:00 AM
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Well, it doesn't EXACTLY end the way Drums of Autumn does, but that's okay. Having Murtagh alive is certainly throwing a wrinkle in things.

I'm glad they did the callback to Otter Tooth. That will be important later, as will the opening scene of this episode.

Very gracious of Jamie to allow Roger to punch him a few times, all things considered. I would have liked to see Claire use the maggots on Roger, but book vs film means not all things can make it.

I simply love John Bell as Ian. What a talented young man.

And now, Droughtlander begins.
Mrs. SMV at first kept saying that Bell “just wasn’t Young Ian”. But he’s certainly grown into the character, I feel; first as a callow, feckless lad, then maturing into a strong and decent man. Bell’s done a good job showing that process.

Good episode, overall. But one plot hole that was probably addressed in the book, which I can no longer remember: where did Roger go for the two months Brianna, Jamie and Claire spent at River Run? He’s wearing the same ragged clothes, but he’s clean and has a horse. What has he been doing?

That was a great scene, especially the culmination in his line, “Take me to see my son”. I wish they would have spent a little longer after that, before having it interrupted by the soldiers coming with Tryon’s letter to Jamie. That felt too rushed - the Roger-and-Bree scene needed another beat. (The history pedant in me grumbled that Tryon probably wouldn’t have sent a whole troop of soldiers to deliver a letter, and in the absence of urgency, the cavalrymen would be trotting or walking, to spare the horses. But I understand the dramatic purpose the galloping redcoats served.)
  #73  
Old 01-28-2019, 10:07 AM
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Wait, Claire and Jamie were at River Run for two months before the soldiers showed up? I wasn't paying close attention. It looked to me that the soldiers showed up right after they arrived, and I was wondering how they knew so quickly where Jamie was.
  #74  
Old 01-28-2019, 10:16 AM
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BTW, I guess I was wrong about the standing stones Roger seemed to see after escaping the Mohawk. Based on the presentation, it looked like he imagined seeing the stones, but I guess he really did. Doesn't explain how he was standing, apparently in the same spot in the same position, but with no stones visible when the Mohawk came upon him.
  #75  
Old 01-28-2019, 01:15 PM
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Jamie is told by Murtagh that Bonnet died in the jail explosion. Don't have the books at hand, is he dead-dead or do we see him again? You can spoiler the answer if you think it's necessary.
  #76  
Old 01-28-2019, 01:50 PM
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Jamie is told by Murtagh that Bonnet died in the jail explosion. Don't have the books at hand, is he dead-dead or do we see him again? You can spoiler the answer if you think it's necessary.
SPOILER:
In the book, he’s executed on a stake that will be covered at high tide. Brianna rows out to talk to him, and ends up shooting him as a mercy. IIRC.

However, the actor who portrayed him has such a sly, evil charm, that I suspect they might keep him alive as an antagonist. He mentioned in one episode how terrified he was of dying by drowning in grey, dirty water - precisely the death to which he was condemned - so I’m guessing he’ll be around to suffer that fate (or perhaps die at Bree’s hand, as in the novel).

The show has already diverged from the novel in keeping one character, Murtagh, alive, so there’s precedent for changing the original story. I think we’ll see Stephen Bonnet again.
  #77  
Old 01-28-2019, 08:10 PM
Mahaloth Mahaloth is offline
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Loved the majority of the season, found the last two episodes to be rushed and only OK.

Still one of the best shows on TV and this season was better than the previous. I eagerly await its return and hope it is back around December or so.
  #78  
Old 01-28-2019, 08:17 PM
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Thanks Slow Moving Vehicle

Now I recall the situation.
  #79  
Old 01-28-2019, 08:19 PM
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I don't think they've started filming yet. I had heard next year. But Book 9 is supposed to be out this year, so we have that. I just hope the non book readers understand it's a story about a marriage, not just a love story. As the family grows so do the number of characters, but Jamie and Claire are still the center.
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  #80  
Old 01-29-2019, 09:49 AM
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I don't think they've started filming yet. I had heard next year. But Book 9 is supposed to be out this year, so we have that. I just hope the non book readers understand it's a story about a marriage, not just a love story. As the family grows so do the number of characters, but Jamie and Claire are still the center.
.
"I am hoping to finish writing BEES by the end of 2018, but no publication date is set yet by myself or my publisher. A publication date will be posted on this website when known." from her official website. Based on that, I don't think we will see it this year.
  #81  
Old 01-29-2019, 02:48 PM
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She's tweeted it will be finished this year. I'm sure there's editing too. Funny story, Diana has said she celebrates finishing a book by buying all new house linens.
  #82  
Old 01-29-2019, 03:33 PM
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She's tweeted it will be finished this year. I'm sure there's editing too. Funny story, Diana has said she celebrates finishing a book by buying all new house linens.
George RR Martin's books are edited while they are written in order to put them out as soon as he (eventually) finishes them. Does she use an editor who is checking, revising, and editing them while she goes?
  #83  
Old 01-29-2019, 06:13 PM
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I'm not sure of her editing process. I do think book eight was delayed because her editor caught a big plot hole or something and she had to go back and fix it.
Here's the link about book 9 coming out this year. Now, it could be Dec 31 (or whatever the last Tue of the month is, I've noticed books tend to be released on Tuesdays.
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