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  #151  
Old 12-25-2018, 04:49 PM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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You can think of the tunnel as a version of Checkpoint Charlie if you like. Personally, I treat the show as a metaphor for the silliness of all human conflict. During the Cold War, East and West Germany were bitter enemies despite having the same history up until the end of the Second World War. And in the show, Earth Alpha and Earth Prime had the same history until the incident that resulted in the parallel worlds.
  #152  
Old 01-04-2019, 01:28 AM
SlackerInc SlackerInc is offline
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I’m pretty much with Ellis Dee: I like the show a lot, but there are some serious contrivances that one must handwave away, and I feel like the brilliant underlying concept and the execution of so much else tells me they could have done better.

To pick at Interface a little more: why does it even exist to begin with? If they have diplomats and customs, why do they need people (who are not “read in”) wearing elaborate Fifties costumes and communicating in code? (There can’t be very much communicated in each encounter, when you think about it and how constrained their cipher is: maybe the equivalent of a word or two?) TBH, I think this is something they thought would be cool in the pilot, but then abandoned it once the series got underway.

An example of why I feel that they are more thorough in many other ways: I love the detail that Peter has installed this heavy duty lock in the room where he stays. We see that he is working counterintelligence against his wife, but what was the excuse he told her, I wonder? Just that he was afraid she might one day murder him in his sleep?
  #153  
Old 01-04-2019, 10:03 AM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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Peter needs no "excuse" for distrusting his wife. He knows that she is from the other side and sent to spy on him and she knows that he knows.
  #154  
Old 01-04-2019, 02:46 PM
SlackerInc SlackerInc is offline
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But he has pretended at times to be more “with her” than he actually was.
  #155  
Old 01-04-2019, 04:30 PM
enalzi enalzi is offline
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But he has pretended at times to be more “with her” than he actually was.
They both know that they are actively against each other's teams, but they have to protect each other individually to keep themselves safe.
  #156  
Old 01-04-2019, 05:28 PM
SlackerInc SlackerInc is offline
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They both know that they are actively against each other's teams, but they have to protect each other individually to keep themselves safe.

I guess I took a different initial impression from the intentional car crash: that he seemed to be just saying “fuck it” and joining her “team”. Not out of true-believer fanaticism (and BTW, one wonders whether her “true belief” is shaken now that she knows Pope had her parents killed), but out of a pragmatic self-preservation drive, combined with having never been very ideological to begin with.

Then when we saw he was bugging her shoe, I was a little surprised (and pleased, as I always kind of liked Peter’s character). But I took that as something he was engaging in way on the DL, while maintaining an outward facade to her of “I’m not going to be your lover, but I am professionally working in concert with you” while working with her to maintain the further-out facade of married normalcy to her parents et al.
  #157  
Old 01-04-2019, 10:37 PM
Ellis Dee Ellis Dee is offline
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Ah, yeah, I see how you got there. Your reasoning makes sense, though that wasn't my take-away.

I think both of them put Spencer above everything else; over the job/cause, each other, and even themselves. The car accident was to provide a cover for the family so they could keep Spencer.

Right after the car accident (between seasons) they sold the house and bought a fortifiable apartment they could share while still feeling reasonably safe from each other, since the trust at that point was almost nil. As the months went on they have gradually begun trusting each other a tiny bit, like eating food the other prepared. But not so much as to abandon the nighttime fortifications.

The whole time they've both still been openly aligned with their opposing causes, and they both know it. But by now it's more like opposing spies who occasionally share non-critical intel to help each other out. Sort of like every spy relationship you see on a show like Homeland.

Bugging her shoe was him still working for his cause, which she wouldn't see as a betrayal in and of itself because she knows he's actively working against her cause. The problem is that by doing so he blew her cover, which is a major problem for both of them because it puts their family (Spencer) at risk.

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 01-04-2019 at 10:38 PM.
  #158  
Old 01-04-2019, 11:38 PM
SlackerInc SlackerInc is offline
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Have we seen evidence that she has fortifications of her own?
  #159  
Old 01-05-2019, 01:36 AM
Ellis Dee Ellis Dee is offline
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Have we seen evidence that she has fortifications of her own?
We haven't seen her room, but I wouldn't be surprised if she does or doesn't.
  #160  
Old 01-05-2019, 01:37 AM
SlackerInc SlackerInc is offline
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I would be surprised if she does.
  #161  
Old 01-08-2019, 01:58 PM
Ellis Dee Ellis Dee is offline
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I'm confused by the Ian storyline this episode.

As best I could tell, 10 years ago Ian Alpha was happily married on our side but then his wife died, so he went to the other side. The Ian Prime we watched all last season was actually Ian Alpha, and now for the past couple episodes he's been creeping on the Wife Prime version of his dead wife, so management sent a team to put him in check. And that just happened to coincide with him finding and researching a super secret management case.

Do I have that right, or am I way off base?
  #162  
Old 01-08-2019, 02:29 PM
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I'm confused by the Ian storyline this episode.

As best I could tell, 10 years ago Ian Alpha was happily married on our side but then his wife died, so he went to the other side. The Ian Prime we watched all last season was actually Ian Alpha, and now for the past couple episodes he's been creeping on the Wife Prime version of his dead wife, so management sent a team to put him in check. And that just happened to coincide with him finding and researching a super secret management case.

Do I have that right, or am I way off base?
There was no amazing coincidence-- Management has dirt on him (especially his true identity) to keep him in line, and they evidently have him under surveillance as well.

The Management team in the last one or two episodes was after Emily and the comms briefcase, I believe, not Ian.
  #163  
Old 01-08-2019, 03:05 PM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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I like the show but I'm constantly having to figure out whether I'm seeing the Alpha version of a character or the Prime version or the Prime version pretending to be the Alpha version. And something in the most recent episode had me wondering if the show's complexity (endless moles, double-cross on top of double-cross and unseen, mysterious management) is getting just too ridiculous. I began to suspect this when
SPOILER:
Peter Quayle Alpha was about to kill himself to protect the secret that his wife Clare was actually Clare Prime pretending to be Clare Alpha and was Shadow, the mole everyone was looking for. But as he's trying to get the courage up to shoot himself, a woman (whom we haven't seen previously?) walks in, tells him to tell them that she was Shadow, and kills herself to protect Clare Prime's secret identity.
  #164  
Old 01-08-2019, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
SPOILER:
Peter Quayle Alpha was about to kill himself to protect the secret that his wife Clare was actually Clare Prime pretending to be Clare Alpha and was Shadow, the mole everyone was looking for. But as he's trying to get the courage up to shoot himself, a woman (whom we haven't seen previously?) walks in, tells him to tell them that she was Shadow, and kills herself to protect Clare Prime's secret identity.
SPOILER:

She was seen before, as one of Peter's underlings. Evidently some kind of secretary, as she schedules his appointments as well as brings him coffee.

She rubs out Lambert in order to protect Clare's identity, along with that of every other Indigo agent. However, she says she was specifically ordered to sacrifice herself as cover for Quayle as he is "important". (OTOH, Clare was ordered to "torch" Peter herself in case they did not get to Lambert in time.)
  #165  
Old 01-08-2019, 04:06 PM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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Yes, but is that kind of thing occurring in the show just a bit too far, that it makes it all ridiculous? I'm beginning to suspect that it does.
  #166  
Old 01-21-2019, 10:42 PM
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And we're back...

Excellent backstory episode with nary a Howard, Emily, Peter, or Clare in sight. It's pretty cool that they used both camera tricks and identical twins to flesh out the teams from each side. I also liked the ending; very The Matrix. The Choice is yours.
  #167  
Old 01-21-2019, 11:12 PM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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I liked that episode. It explained exactly how the parallel universes were created, who management is and why there is such antagonism on both sides. Whoever is in charge (of the show) here is really clever.

Last edited by Dewey Finn; 01-21-2019 at 11:12 PM.
  #168  
Old 02-11-2019, 10:21 PM
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I guess a lot of people gave up on this show, and Starz took heed.

Showrunner announces that Starz declines a season 3.

It's a shame. In terms of world building, Counterpart is a very simple construct made complicated by the human element. There's so much rich material to be mined by some very good actors, and the show still has great potential. I hope Amazon Prime or Neflix gobble it up.

If not, there's one episode left to resolve everything.
  #169  
Old 02-12-2019, 12:55 AM
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Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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Too bad--season two took off to a slow start and I let episodes accumulate unwatched, but having recently binged the last few it has improved quite a bit towards the end.



I was just wondering, though--have they shown evidence of the German government (or any government) being involved in this that I don't remember? Because it seems like the handful of civillian "management" was all the authorty (and funding) that there was?
  #170  
Old 02-12-2019, 01:56 AM
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I was just wondering, though--have they shown evidence of the German government (or any government) being involved in this that I don't remember? Because it seems like the handful of civillian "management" was all the authorty (and funding) that there was?
Management, at least most of them, had influential connections to the (East) German government in the first place. By the time the episodes are taking place, we are told "some" world leaders know about the project, and the Office is a UN agency, at least officially.

Note that, as far as authority in Germany, we see that OI agents are able to conduct all sorts of ops and order civilian police around, and no one even questions it, so they are clearly still in with the government at both local and very high levels. As for funding, I do not recall any specific figures mentioned, but it's obvious they get a substantial amount from national governments as a UN agency, and as fruits of their legitimate activities+research (all the technology, cure for diseases, oil drilling was mentioned, etc), and they have all sorts of off-the-books dealings and black money too.
  #171  
Old 02-12-2019, 03:06 AM
Ellis Dee Ellis Dee is offline
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Well that episode took a dark turn.

Bummed to hear it's cancelled. It's one of my favorite shows.
  #172  
Old 02-12-2019, 09:37 AM
Isosleepy Isosleepy is offline
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Damn, such a great show. I like how it shows that we wouldn’t be particularly kind to carbon copies of ourselves (excepting that fixer dude, who went all twinsies with it) I think that’s very realistic.
  #173  
Old 02-12-2019, 11:04 AM
ISiddiqui ISiddiqui is offline
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Well that's sad. I've just started getting into it (watched the entire first season right before the second season started) and really enjoyed the spycraft and sci-fi. I guess it'll be back to just paying for Starz for Outlander again.
  #174  
Old 02-12-2019, 11:18 AM
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I've not posted much about it lately, but I still love this show - especially now that the pieces are starting to fall into place (I've not seen Sunday's episode yet). I was sad to see it cancelled but I hope this has a chance of going to Amazon or Netflix. Most of my friends that I know would like it can't watch it because they don't have Starz - so maybe a wider distribution will help it find some new life.
  #175  
Old 02-12-2019, 05:18 PM
epbrown01 epbrown01 is offline
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Damn, such a great show. I like how it shows that we wouldn’t be particularly kind to carbon copies of ourselves (excepting that fixer dude, who went all twinsies with it) I think that’s very realistic.
Yeah, I can sort of see how self-loathing or narcissism could play into it, but the Lambert character was just gross.

Starz lost a susbcriber, as bingeing Counterpart is why I subscribed (via Amazon) occasionally.
  #176  
Old 02-12-2019, 05:39 PM
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Yeah, I can sort of see how self-loathing or narcissism could play into it, but the Lambert character was just gross.
It wasn't just Lambert; we also see Alice x 2 in an interesting domestic situation.
  #177  
Old 02-12-2019, 05:52 PM
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Does anyone know how many years before the present the world doubling took place?
  #178  
Old 02-12-2019, 06:06 PM
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If the mad-science experiment took place in 1986 or 1987, and the modern scenes are set in 2017, that makes just about 30 years. Though they said things were more or less the same until the flu was unleashed in the early 1990s.
  #179  
Old 02-12-2019, 07:36 PM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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That sounds about right. Because in the one episode that showed the creation of the parallel worlds, it seemed to occur a few years before the reunification of Germany, and the computer hardware in the lab included CRT monitors.

Last edited by Dewey Finn; 02-12-2019 at 07:36 PM.
  #180  
Old 02-12-2019, 09:21 PM
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I guess thirty years makes sense, but a few characters look too young to have others. The assassin, for example. Also, the woman who said she had never been kissed because her "other" never had. Did I hear that right? The actress playing that character is only nineteen. I don't get it.

Also, why did the operator call Ian Shaw Mr. Pierce?
  #181  
Old 02-12-2019, 11:32 PM
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I guess thirty years makes sense, but a few characters look too young to have others. The assassin, for example. Also, the woman who said she had never been kissed because her "other" never had. Did I hear that right? The actress playing that character is only nineteen. I don't get it.

Also, why did the operator call Ian Shaw Mr. Pierce?
There's no reason why an under 30 person wouldn't have an other - perhaps not identical, but close enough for impersonation. If a couple has a girl in 1995, and their others also have a girl in the same year, chances are the resulting children would look very similar indeed.
  #182  
Old 02-12-2019, 11:35 PM
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I guess thirty years makes sense, but a few characters look too young to have others. The assassin, for example. Also, the woman who said she had never been kissed because her "other" never had. Did I hear that right? The actress playing that character is only nineteen. I don't get it.

Also, why did the operator call Ian Shaw Mr. Pierce?
There's no reason why an under 30 person wouldn't have an other - perhaps not identical, but close enough for impersonation. If a couple has a girl in 1995, and their others also have a girl in the same year, chances are the resulting children would look very similar indeed.

I guess you missed the parts about how Ian was originally from "our" side and the management from "their" side recruited him and gave him a new identity. The woman that was kidnapped was the other of Ian's dead wife from "our" side. Who Ian had recently tracked down and started a relationship with, against orders.
  #183  
Old 02-12-2019, 11:36 PM
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Double post deleted.
  #184  
Old 02-13-2019, 11:31 AM
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There's no reason why an under 30 person wouldn't have an other - perhaps not identical, but close enough for impersonation. If a couple has a girl in 1995, and their others also have a girl in the same year, chances are the resulting children would look very similar indeed.

I guess you missed the parts about how Ian was originally from "our" side and the management from "their" side recruited him and gave him a new identity. The woman that was kidnapped was the other of Ian's dead wife from "our" side. Who Ian had recently tracked down and started a relationship with, against orders.
Ah, thanks. That did slip by or I'd forgotten it.

I don't buy others under 30, though. Too many variations.
  #185  
Old 02-18-2019, 01:49 PM
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Well, at least it went out with a boom, some bangs, and a poke.
  #186  
Old 02-18-2019, 07:55 PM
Ellis Dee Ellis Dee is offline
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I don't buy others under 30, though. Too many variations.
This is a fair objection, I think.

It reminds me of a plot point I really liked in the movie About Time. Guy can travel back in time, "fix" stuff, and return to the present where the fixes have taken effect.

He learns about the one hard and fast (self-imposed) rule: Never change anything before your children were born. If you do, when you return to the present you'll have completely different kids. It's just too random.
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