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Old 04-13-2018, 04:42 PM
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Avengers 4 speculation thread [Infinity War spoilers]

With the release of Avengers: Inifinity War two weeks away, and the Marvel folks saying that the reason the title of Avengers 4 is unrevealed is because it will spoil main points of A:IW, I'm guessing it won't be that long after the release that the Avengers 4 title is revealed. I'm sure some folks here have some interesting theories as to the title and nature of the next movie, so I thought maybe we could swap ideas before the big reveal.

My guess: Avengers: The Time Conqueror, or Avengers: Lost in Time

Reasons:
  • Of well-known Avengers enemies, Kang is probably the biggest to not have appeared in the MCU
  • Time travel could open up the MCU to possibilities beyond super-heroes - Old West, GotG 30th century, etc
  • The mechanism for time travel is certainly present in A:IW, and an ending that causes many or all of the heroes to disappear could look very fatal while actually being (ooh, plot twist!) time displacement
  • Carol Danvers's movie takes place between A:IW and A4, and Immortus (an alter-ego of Kang, also heavy on the time travel) is heavily involved in her comics story

What do you think? What do you guess?
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Old 04-13-2018, 04:45 PM
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I'm thinking it's Secret Invasion. I think Hawkeye, Ant Man & the Wasp and Captain Marvel will be involved in some sort of secret mission involving the Skrulls and something about it will be the key to defeating Thanos and it will also uncover the Skrull imposters in our governments and in the Avengers.
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Old 04-13-2018, 05:02 PM
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Secret Wars! Bring on The Beyonder.
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Old 04-13-2018, 08:19 PM
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Common belief is the that the subtitle is a spoiler in and of itself so a lot of speculation is that the title will refer to a popular story.
Going rumor is Avengers: Annihilation or Disassembled.

I personally think it will be just "The New Avengers" and be Hawkeye assembling a new team after everyone else goes missing--this new team has do some fetch quest and then go after Thanos and then set things right.

Set photo stuff leading to speculation-

SPOILER:
We know from set photos that Tony is around (frosted tips!) and we see Avengers 1 Cap alongside new costume Ant-Man..so there's some time hijinx going on. I think we're going to see an alternate timeline where Tony doesn't build the suit maybe or maybe gave it up and got involved SHIELD directly since he's seen where SHIELD logos on his clothes.


Maybe it will be Secret Invasion and see how the Hydra coup would have played out differently. Fury is killed. Cap is replaced by the Skrull.
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Old 04-13-2018, 08:34 PM
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Definitely "New Avengers." The body count at the end of "Infinity War" is going to be huge, and some of them won't be saved by the events of "Avengers 4."
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:15 PM
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The villain is going to be Thanos, infinity war ends with him snapping his fingers.
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by silenus View Post
Definitely "New Avengers." The body count at the end of "Infinity War" is going to be huge, and some of them won't be saved by the events of "Avengers 4."
That wouldn't be much of a spoiler though.
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Old 04-13-2018, 10:59 PM
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I wrote this in another thread but I believe Thanos will get defeated in this Movie at a huge cost but the Red Skull (who was teleported into space at the end of the first CA movie) will pick up the Gauntlet and be the antagonist of the next movie.
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Old 04-13-2018, 11:52 PM
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The villain is going to be Thanos, infinity war ends with him snapping his fingers.
That's my thought - (almost) all of the heroes will be killed at the end of Infinity War. I won't even try to guess at this point which will be brought back*, who will carry over, and who will be added from the current roster, except (probably) Captain Marvel..

*and how, for that matter. IIRC, James Gunn has said that Warlock won't be in either of these movies.

Last edited by galen ubal; 04-13-2018 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 04-18-2018, 12:01 AM
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A hint that my theory might be correct
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Old 04-30-2018, 12:56 PM
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Sooooo... now that Infinity War is out...

speculation based on the end of Infinity War and some set photos...
SPOILER:
I predict part 4 opens with "....5 years later." We see Earth rebuilding maybe even thriving after the 50% decrease. We see a new avengers team made up Iron Man (actually Rhodey in a gold/red armor), Antman, Wasp and a rebuilt Vision (the emotionless 'white' version) and Hawkeye back under the Ronin persona--angry and bitter (his whole family was ashed).

Tony is retired (traumatized) and raising a kid with Pepper. (I think the "Avengers 1 costumes" set photos are Tony using his 'way back' machine to relive their triumphs)SHIELD is back under Commander Rogers. Black Widow is back to being a field agent. Everything seems okay on Earth... people are struggling to get over it, but are. Everyone kind of accepts the defeat because....what can they do?

But Space is a nightmare--a warzone. There's a Galactic Avengers with Thor, Rocket, Nebula and Captain Marvel, I'd throw Banner up there for SCIENCE! They are trying to maintain order and search for Thanos.

Not sure how it will go down, but we'll definitely see the original Avengers come together again and be the crux of the battle--essentially the choice will be to rewind time to the moment before the *snap* and stop Thanos--so everything after never happens. Tony is hesitant because his child will cease to exist... and one of them must sacrifice themselves of course. Tony will be ready to do it to atone, but Steve will step in and do it. His death will be the only one that sticks. The original Avengers are the only ones that remember the post *snap* timeline.
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Last edited by Chronos; 04-30-2018 at 08:38 PM. Reason: Fixed spoiler tag, without reading most of it
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Old 04-30-2018, 01:07 PM
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I definitely think there will be a time-travel element. I think Captain Marvel will play a big part of saving the day, and I think it's possible the entire setup of Infinity War was to get Fury to page Captain Marvel for that "1 in 14 million" shot.

I think a vast majority of people that lived in Infinity War will die, permanently in the next movie, and nearly all the people dusted in Infinity War will be resurrected.
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Old 04-30-2018, 01:08 PM
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I'm guessing the still-secret and spoilery title is Avengers 4: All Those Characters We Killed Off Are Coming Back, We Promise.
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Old 04-30-2018, 01:15 PM
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The villain is going to be Thanos, infinity war ends with him snapping his fingers.
I just want to point out this was an educated guess and not prior knowledge.
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Old 04-30-2018, 02:04 PM
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I do like the current theory of "Avengers: Endgame" based on Dr. Strange's last line. It also calls back to the scene from "Age of Ultron":

Quote:
Tony: Recall that? A hostile alien army came charging in through a hole in space…we're standing 300 feet below it. We're the Avengers. We can bust arms dealers all the live-long day, but…that up there? That's the endgame. How were you guys planning on beating that?
Steve: Together.
Tony: We'll lose.
Steve: Then we'll do that together, too.
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Old 04-30-2018, 02:49 PM
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I think the next Avengers will focus on the core characters (the original Avengers).
SPOILER:
It's not an accident they were the survivors. Of course the events of this movie will be over written. I predict a Back to the Future 2 esque time travel story where the older characters interact with events from Movies that have already happened.

Also as many have said, Doctor Strange allowed what happened to happen because he saw it was the only way they would ultimately win.

I was happy to see The Red Skull (I was half right) but who knew the evil Nazi would get all mellow. He may play a role in 4 but not the roll I thought he would.

Last edited by Chronos; 04-30-2018 at 08:41 PM. Reason: Added spoiler tags
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Old 04-30-2018, 08:40 PM
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[Moderating]
Remember, this thread is for speculation, not spoilers, and things like who dies and who doesn't are definitely spoilers.

EDIT: And please be very careful about that. I'm trying to avoid spoilers myself, and that's very tough if I have to go in and add spoiler tags.

Last edited by Chronos; 04-30-2018 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 05-01-2018, 08:18 AM
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Oops I'm really sorry. I assumed this would be for people who saw Infinity War but that was dumb on my part. Thanks for editing and I apologize if someone was spoiled for the current movie.
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Old 05-01-2018, 10:20 AM
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May as well change the title of this thread to indicate spoilers for Avengers 3, since there'd be little point speculating on Avengers 4 without discussing the new information.
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Old 05-01-2018, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Quimby View Post
I think the next Avengers will focus on the core characters (the original Avengers).
SPOILER:
It's not an accident they were the survivors. Of course the events of this movie will be over written. I predict a Back to the Future 2 esque time travel story where the older characters interact with events from Movies that have already happened.
....
[eta: I took the spoiler out of the quote because it wasn't hiding while in the quote for some reason. It's Quimby's spoiler and quote]

I would love to see that kind of a storyline. It may help to explain where the heck Captain Marvel has been hiding out all this time... and why she was never summoned during the previous Avengers-level incidents. Maybe if the
SPOILER:
events of Avengers 1 never happened because Carol was called, then maybe Loki wouldn't have had dealings with Thanos... who knows.


Plus, it would be so easy to set up various Easter Eggs, throw-back jokes, etc. (Carol: "I've been locked away for so long. I could really go for some schwarma." Tony: "I know a place.")

Last edited by Serenata67; 05-01-2018 at 11:43 AM. Reason: saved the spoiler
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Old 05-01-2018, 01:51 PM
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The X-Men will show up to save the day?
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Old 05-01-2018, 01:57 PM
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May as well change the title of this thread to indicate spoilers for Avengers 3, since there'd be little point speculating on Avengers 4 without discussing the new information.
I agree.
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Old 05-01-2018, 04:53 PM
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I'll wait to hear from cmkeller (the OP) on that. If he's OK with the change, then I'll change the title (and hopefully be able to avoid this thread thereafter).
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Old 05-03-2018, 11:19 PM
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Huh.
Quote:
Given the shocking ending of Infinity War, which saw the Mad Titan Thanos use the might of his Infinity Gauntlet to wipe out half of all life in the universe — including such Avengers as Black Panther, Doctor Strange, Spider-Man and most of the Guardians of the Galaxy — many fans have begun to theorize that most of these deaths will be undone come the next film.

But that doesn’t appear to be the case, if the writers are to be believed. “[The deaths are] real,” Markus continued. “I just want to tell you it’s real, and the sooner you accept that, the sooner you will be able to move on to the next stage of grief.”

With the Infinity Stones and more importantly the Time Stone in play, many already believe that returning the deceased Avengers back to life will be as simple as a snap of the fingers. However, it may not be that simple. “[Infinity War] gets very mature,” McFeely added. “The second one is also mature. We’re going to own these choices, and hopefully surprise and delight you and get you invested.”
From here.

Note the source article for CBR is here on Buzzfeed.

Last edited by galen ubal; 05-03-2018 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 05-03-2018, 11:55 PM
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Right.

So is Marvel lying about upcoming movies that star those who were dusted? Are they all going to say "the following takes place five years previously?"
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Old 05-04-2018, 12:33 AM
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Well, sure the deaths are real. I believe they are absolutely real, within the context of the fictional Marvel Cinematic Universe. Thing is, also established within that universe is a device that can rewrite reality, and whatever it rewrites reality to, then that will be absolutely real within the context of fictional Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Personally, I think Marvel Studios is about as likely to permanently kill off the MCU Black Panther and Spider-Man as they are to seek a permit to cordon off Times Square, assemble a huge pile of hundred-dollar bills totaling at least $500 million, and setting fire to it.
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Old 05-04-2018, 02:02 AM
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Marvel could go with Miles Morales as the new Spider-Man. Rocket saying he was had to be captain could be foreshadowing the new Guardians featuring him, Nebula, Thor, and - I dunno - Sylvester Stallone?

But probably not.
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Old 05-04-2018, 02:12 AM
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The X-Men will show up to save the day?
I would be absolutely thrilled if Rogue - somehow - showed up to lay a finger on Carol Danvers and turn into the powerhouse she is in the books.
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Old 05-04-2018, 05:42 AM
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I read somewhere online (Vulture? Screen Rant?) their speculation that A4 would be named based on Doctor Strange's line when he gives up the stone: Avengers: Endgame

I like that it sells the finality of this stage. And if any of the Big Contracts are truly moving on, that will "justify" the MCU selling closure.

If they can pull that off - give MCU fans a sense of story closure AND fired up for the next stage - man, what a Win.
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Old 05-04-2018, 08:50 AM
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Chronos:

Quote:
I'll wait to hear from cmkeller (the OP) on that. If he's OK with the change, then I'll change the title (and hopefully be able to avoid this thread thereafter).
Fire away.
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Old 05-04-2018, 09:17 AM
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Marvel could go with Miles Morales as the new Spider-Man.
Contractually, they could not. They owe Sony another Spider-Man movie with Tom Holland as Peter Parker. The only way to get around that is to set Spider-Man 2 before the events of Infinity War.
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Old 05-04-2018, 11:38 AM
The Other Waldo Pepper The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
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I wonder if Captain America will once again plot-contrivance his way into some kind of missing-in-action fate, off to a future that Surely Needs You Now More Than Ever.
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Old 05-04-2018, 11:40 AM
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I wonder if Captain America will once again plot-contrivance his way into some kind of missing-in-action fate, off to a future that Surely Needs You Now More Than Ever.
You mean like they did in the comics in the 1960s, in his modern origin?
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Old 05-04-2018, 11:53 AM
The Other Waldo Pepper The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
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You mean like they did in the comics in the 1960s, in his modern origin?

Uh, yeah. Only I’m suggesting that, after he went from WWII to a situation where he meets Iron Man and Thor for the first time, he then does the Rip Van Winkle bit again to once more do the Man Out Of Time thing in 2050 or whatever for a while, in adventures that’ll presumably culminate in that same guy falling back asleep until he eventually mutters “what, a third time?” upon thawing out in the 22nd century.
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Old 05-04-2018, 11:54 AM
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Uh, yeah. Only I’m suggesting that, after he went from WWII to a situation where he meets Iron Man and Thor for the first time, he then does the Rip Van Winkle bit again to once more do the Man Out Of Time thing in 2050 or whatever for a while, in adventures that’ll presumably culminate in that same guy falling back asleep until he eventually mutters “what, a third time?” upon thawing out in the 22nd century.
Umm...okay?
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Old 05-04-2018, 12:38 PM
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Huh.


From here.

Note the source article for CBR is here on Buzzfeed.
This actually makes me more certain we're getting a time jump at the beginning. They are telling the audience to accept it because the characters will have accepted it and moved on. I think we'll go through a big chunk of the opening with no one discussing Thanos or the Ashing all to the point the audience will be lulled into forgetting about it...and then someone is going to say *his* name and everyone will stop.
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Old 05-04-2018, 05:03 PM
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[Moderating]
OK, I've edited the title. Have fun, and please don't do anything else that needs moderation until I've had a chance to see it.

(but if you do see a need for moderation, do still report it: It's part of the job, after all)
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Old 05-05-2018, 11:43 PM
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Contractually, they could not. They owe Sony another Spider-Man movie with Tom Holland as Peter Parker. The only way to get around that is to set Spider-Man 2 before the events of Infinity War.
Contracts can be re-negotiated (in secret even). I'm sure for a big enough pile of cash (or a different movie instead) Sony could be brought around if they did want to move onto to Miles Morales Spider Man. Black Panther is whoever is the king and wears the suit, so its possible Black Panther is back, but different actor and different King.

Scarlet Witch, well seems her arc was more or less done, she had nothing left to live for with her brother and now vision gone. Guardians of the Galaxy 3? Sure we know there's a 3rd movie, we don't know which GoTG members they will be. And potentially Groot can be grown again from the handle of Thor's axe? Mantis and Drax are not really a big deal to not bring back, same with Winter Soldier and Falcon, they are minor players. As far as Dr Strange, there's no sequel announced for him and Mordo is potentially still out there undusted so potentially he could become Sorcerer Supreme?

Marvel has said "There will be two distinct periods. Everything before Avengers 4 and everything after.” Bringing everyone back by reversing the snap doesn't achieve that. In the comics we have new versions of most of these characters now anyway - Tony retires and we have Ironheart instead, Spider Man becomes Miles Morales etc There's also plenty of fresh characters to bring in especially now that Marvel has rights to the X Men and FF back (as well as Wolverine quite a few other X Men have been Avengers at different times).

Really Spider Man is the only character where you have to think "oh he has to come back" Everyone else is interchangeable. I guess it's always possible they figure out some way to undust only Peter Parker and not everyone else? Anyway I don't know what will happen but I think at least some of the dusted characters are going to stay dead.
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Old 05-06-2018, 02:34 AM
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My assumption is all (or at least most) will be revived, but many will die permanent deaths come the next movie. Like a lot of people, I reckon it'll be Cap or Iron Man. Peter Parker's going to be around for a little while. Miles Morales may come into the picture, but that's a few films away for sure.

Side note: Ant-man and Hawkeye were the only living heroes from previous films not to have made an appearance in Infinity War, right? Surely to end the first generation of the MCU they'll want to have everyone fighting in the final battle. Then again, maybe that'll all be too much to follow.
  #40  
Old 05-06-2018, 07:06 PM
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HowSoonIsThen:

Quote:
Side note: Ant-man and Hawkeye were the only living heroes from previous films not to have made an appearance in Infinity War, right?
Does Agent 13 (Sharon Carter) count? She's nowhere to be seen in A:IW, and still alive as far as I'm aware.
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  #41  
Old 05-06-2018, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers View Post
Well, sure the deaths are real. I believe they are absolutely real, within the context of the fictional Marvel Cinematic Universe. Thing is, also established within that universe is a device that can rewrite reality, and whatever it rewrites reality to, then that will be absolutely real within the context of fictional Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Personally, I think Marvel Studios is about as likely to permanently kill off the MCU Black Panther and Spider-Man as they are to seek a permit to cordon off Times Square, assemble a huge pile of hundred-dollar bills totaling at least $500 million, and setting fire to it.
I agree with this.

I think it's very likely that Avengers 4 will be the last ride for Downey, Hemsworth, Evans, and Ruffalo, at a minimum. But, I do think that those who have been dusted will, generally, be somehow returned -- but for an additional reason beyond Marvel / Disney being unlikely to kill off popular characters (played by popular actors).

The other reason is this, and it has nothing to do with the dead Avengers: Thanos just killed 3.8 billion humans on Earth; there's a 50/50 chance that MCU you, and MCU me, have been disintegrated. It's one thing for a comic-book movie to depict an alien race being devastated, or even an Earth city or region to be heavily damaged (New York City, Sokovia, etc.) But, permanently wiping out unfathomable numbers of humans on Earth hits home in a way that those just don't, and, IMO, is darker than Marvel tends to go.
  #42  
Old 05-06-2018, 07:36 PM
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I suspect many will be revived - but there will be a heavy price to pay. I believe that Stark and/or Cap will end up sacrificing themselves in some way to bring some or all of those "dusted" back. It's certainly easy for me to imagine Stark giving up his life to bring back Parker; Stark was acting as a mentor and father-figure to Parker, or at least trying to. Stark has been carrying a shit-ton of guilt and dread since the first Avenger movie; add in Stark's daddy issues, and I think he'll be willing to lay down on that wire*, once he realizes there's no way to cut it.

Cap? Well, he's just Cap. Give him the option, and he'll do it.


*Remember that exchange between Cap and Stark in the first Avengers?
Quote:
Steve Rogers: I know guys with none of that worth ten of you. I've seen the footage. The only thing you really fight for is yourself. You're not the guy to make the sacrifice play, to lay down on a wire and let the other guy crawl over you.
Tony Stark: I think I would just cut the wire.
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Old 05-06-2018, 07:42 PM
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Contracts can be re-negotiated (in secret even). I'm sure for a big enough pile of cash (or a different movie instead) Sony could be brought around if they did want to move onto to Miles Morales Spider Man. Black Panther is whoever is the king and wears the suit, so its possible Black Panther is back, but different actor and different King.
.
No, none of that is going to happen. Too much money to be lost.
  #44  
Old 05-06-2018, 08:05 PM
The Other Waldo Pepper The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
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Originally Posted by cmkeller View Post
Does Agent 13 (Sharon Carter) count? She's nowhere to be seen in A:IW, and still alive as far as I'm aware.

Valkyrie probably deserves mention.
  #45  
Old 05-06-2018, 08:22 PM
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kenobi 65 kenobi 65 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
Valkyrie probably deserves mention.
As well as Sif (missing from Thor: Ragnarok, as well; ISTR either the director, or Kevin Feige, explicitly stating that she wasn't on Asgard when it was destroyed).
  #46  
Old 05-07-2018, 05:01 AM
outlierrn outlierrn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galen ubal View Post
I suspect many will be revived - but there will be a heavy price to pay. I believe that Stark and/or Cap will end up sacrificing themselves in some way to bring some or all of those "dusted" back. It's certainly easy for me to imagine Stark giving up his life to bring back Parker; Stark was acting as a mentor and father-figure to Parker, or at least trying to. Stark has been carrying a shit-ton of guilt and dread since the first Avenger movie; add in Stark's daddy issues, and I think he'll be willing to lay down on that wire*, once he realizes there's no way to cut it.

Cap? Well, he's just Cap. Give him the option, and he'll do it.


*Remember that exchange between Cap and Stark in the first Avengers?
Yeah, but Tony proved him wrong by flying a nuke through a hole in space with no real expectation of surviving.


I'm predicting they find a way to unsnap the fingers, but only the dusted will return; then there will be a huge conflict between Thor and Strange. Thor will want to rewind just a few more hours to recover Loki, Heimdall and scores of Asgardians, and Strange will be 'nope, temporal prime directive, yadda yadda yadda.'
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Last edited by outlierrn; 05-07-2018 at 05:03 AM.
  #47  
Old 05-07-2018, 01:04 PM
Steve MB Steve MB is offline
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Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers View Post
Personally, I think Marvel Studios is about as likely to permanently kill off the MCU Black Panther and Spider-Man as they are to seek a permit to cordon off Times Square, assemble a huge pile of hundred-dollar bills totaling at least $500 million, and setting fire to it.
Especially given that Sony still has a major interest in Spider-Man. To draw a metaphor from the Distinguished Competition, they aren't going to be impressed by the argument that Marvel is just setting fire to their half of the pile.
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  #48  
Old 05-07-2018, 02:10 PM
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Intergalactic Gladiator Intergalactic Gladiator is online now
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What I want to see in the next Avengers movie:

Rocket: The name's Rocket.
Captain America: Rocket Raccoon? Good to meet you.
Rocket: See? This guy gets it. I'm not a rabbit and I'm not a stinking trash panda.
Captain America: Rocket Raccoon, like the Beetles song. I understand that reference.
Rocket: What? No. What the hell are you talking about?

Or something along those lines. The writers can work it a little to fit the scene.
  #49  
Old 05-07-2018, 02:19 PM
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cmkeller cmkeller is offline
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Cap wouldn't get a Beatles reference, unless he's caught up on them after waking up. His time as a Capsicle was from 1945 through 2010 (give or take).
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  #50  
Old 05-07-2018, 02:34 PM
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And Rocket got pissed off when Star Prince called him a raccoon in the first GotG. Or at least denied it.
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