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  #101  
Old 01-05-2019, 09:40 PM
carnivorousplant carnivorousplant is offline
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I missed the significance of the music until I watched it again with Mrs. Plant (v.3.0)
"As Time Goes By" was played four times.
And when two lovers woo
They still say, I love you
On that you can rely
No matter what the future brings
As time goes by

Kelly never answers the question, "Do you love me?"

Upon watching the episode a second time: Just about everyone on this show is a dick.

Last edited by carnivorousplant; 01-05-2019 at 09:44 PM.
  #102  
Old 01-05-2019, 10:02 PM
DSYoungEsq DSYoungEsq is offline
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If the only thing you are worried about regarding the rescue part of the episode is stuff like how big the aliens are, or whether or not and how they knew they could breathe, you're totally missing the nit-pickers' award here. The whole SCIENCE of what was happening was just ludicrous, and the visual implementation was nothing short of completely stupid. It was almost worse than Spock (old) being able to see Vulcan implode in the sky above from the outpost on "Delta Vega" in the 2009 reboot film of Star Trek. That sort of thing just makes me shake my head in dis-belief. Then, I shrug and simply ignore the stupidity and watch for the underlying plot.

I found the Bortus plot to be quite interesting. I like how it developed that Bortus' dive into pornography resulted from his repressed resentment of Klyden's decision to allow their child to be re-gendered. Klyden and Bortus allow MacFarlane to explore all sorts of human gender and relationship issues without dragging into the exploration the inevitable pre-assumptions that people would have about humans (such as those surrounding Mercer and Grayson). I wouldn't want every episode to focus on them, and it should be noted that episode 1 was also about Kitan's relationship issues, acting as a contrast to those of Mercer and Grayson. So it's not like this was really two Moclan-centered episodes.

The Orville is not a great show. It doesn't really handle drama well (it tends to make it seem quite formulaic). It also has very average comedy, worth at best a few chuckles, but no hearty laughs, really. The acting is so-so, and the scripts are decent, but not usually that thought provoking. In the old three-network days, it wouldn't make it past the first season. But I find it much more interesting that season 1 of ST:TNG, and certainly don't mind blowing 41 minutes watching an episode on Hulu at my leisure.
  #103  
Old 01-05-2019, 10:13 PM
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Upon watching the episode a second time: Just about everyone on this show is a dick.
Well, it is a Seth MacFarlane show.
  #104  
Old 01-05-2019, 10:47 PM
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I found the Bortus/Klyden a lot more interesting than the dying planet. Bortus's porn addiction not only put the Orville it also led to the deaths of 45 people that otherwise could've been saved if not for the computer virus effecting the ship's system.
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  #105  
Old 01-06-2019, 12:15 AM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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...I can't imagine having access to such a technology and not using it whenever I could....
"When virtual reality lets Joe Sixpack make love to Claudia Schiffer by the hour in his rec room, it's gonna make crack look like Sanka." - Dennis Miller
  #106  
Old 01-06-2019, 12:34 AM
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I wanted to know more about the aliens. Not the minutiae like whether they breathe oxygen, but where did they come from? What was their culture like? This is an alien race that the Union has never encountered which should be pretty important. Instead, they were used as a generic plot device.

At the beginning when Bortus asked to leave early because he didn't feel well, and then Ed and Kelly said it was his third time that week, Dr. Finn was standing right there! I fully expected her to go after him down the hallway. But no, she stood there looking stupid. ???

This was a lame episode, but I still like the show and really, really hope it gets better next week. Brannon Braga started out as a writer for TNG. He really needs to step up. I don't expect TNG, but The Orville can be much better than these last two episodes.
  #107  
Old 01-06-2019, 01:35 AM
Ellis Dee Ellis Dee is online now
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Bortus's porn addiction not only put the Orville it also led to the deaths of 45 people that otherwise could've been saved if not for the computer virus effecting the ship's system.
According to the plot, the shuttlecraft required lengthy modifications in order to be able to ferry people off the planet. There was never time to get two shuttles into the mix, nor was there time to make two trips. It's possible that they thought they had more time because the virus messed up the scanners, but without the virus, an accurate scan would have just told them they only got one trip from the get-go. Those limitation were both highly contrived, but would still have applied even without the virus.

(Contrived as in only that one guy/team on the entire ship could do those modifications to the shuttlecraft? A second/third/fourth team couldn't mirror the modifications on a second/third/fourth shuttlecraft as they worked?)

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I wanted to know more about the aliens. Not the minutiae like whether they breathe oxygen, but where did they come from?
That was their home planet, and their scientists weren't even sure if space travel was physically possible yet. So definitely a pre-warp civilization.

But yeah, it ended up being a pretty major scenario getting handwaved away in a perfunctory manner.

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 01-06-2019 at 01:38 AM.
  #108  
Old 01-06-2019, 09:10 AM
Just Asking Questions Just Asking Questions is online now
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Well, I liked the episode. Was it perfect? No, but then nothing is.

So anybody on the fence who hasn't't watched it yet, give it a try.
  #109  
Old 01-06-2019, 10:56 AM
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Thinking about the environmental simulator; it strikes me that they should have programmed limits, so that an individual could only use it X hours a week or whatever and would have to schedule a time. This could reduce the risk of addiction.

Thing is, Bortas is a senior member of staff. What's the point of climbing the hierarchy if you don't get extra privileges? Remember, he has "important stuff" to do, and he needs extra access to the simulator to do it.

Remember the Voyager episode, when everyone noticed that incomplete, really cool, holo-novel about a mutiny that occurs on Voyager?

Tuvok: "Ugh. Its not a novel, I wrote that as a tactical simulation to practice for the contingency, should it have occurred."

Everybody else: "So you routinely plot how to take us out in case of mutiny? With simulated phaser shots, and screams, and blood?"

Tuvok: "Hells, yeah. 'Cause I'm security. Its my job. Look it up."

Remember, as shown in last season, Alara has the ability to lock out the safeties on the simulator, AND lock the Captain out of overriding her security protocols.

Kelly: "Really, she can lock you out Ed. And you can't do anything? Really? That's Union policy?"

Ed: "Yup. I can fire her if she survives. But that's about it."

Later this season, John or Yaphit or maybe the new Georgia O'Keeffe inspired alien Lt Urk may well do something unsanctioned with the engines, and that's kinda their prerogative, because they have the technical know-how, and Ed and Kelly don't. We've already seen that Gordon can fly the Orville anyway he feels like to resolve a mission.

Last edited by Arkcon; 01-06-2019 at 10:58 AM.
  #110  
Old 01-06-2019, 12:37 PM
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Thing is, Bortas is a senior member of staff. What's the point of climbing the hierarchy if you don't get extra privileges? Remember, he has "important stuff" to do, and he needs extra access to the simulator to do it.
...
So everyone other than senior members get X hours and senior members get X hours of private use a week plus unlimited usage beyond that which is logged and reviewable by the captain, and the captain's use is reviewable by security.
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  #111  
Old 01-06-2019, 01:06 PM
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Please be better next ep! Last season was SO good!
Er, that episode was written for last season...

Then again, maybe somebody realized that it wasn't exactly "the best of the bunch," which is why it wasn't the season premiere, with its corresponding boost from being right after NFL coverage.
  #112  
Old 01-06-2019, 01:41 PM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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I noticed Yaphit, the gelatinous guy, in Main Engineering, but he didn't have any lines. Was Norm Macdonald busy?
  #113  
Old 01-06-2019, 02:05 PM
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I noticed Yaphit, the gelatinous guy, in Main Engineering, but he didn't have any lines. Was Norm Macdonald busy?
Reportedly Norm does not enjoy the six-hour gelatinous blob makeup process.
  #114  
Old 01-06-2019, 02:51 PM
carnivorousplant carnivorousplant is offline
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Reportedly Norm does not enjoy the six-hour gelatinous blob makeup process.
  #115  
Old 01-06-2019, 04:19 PM
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It's a better explanation than Norm MacDonald being busy. And I like how it showed him as a regular crewman and not just some handsy, er, glopsy horndog.

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Heh, what if it's a running meta-joke and every episode this season has a heavy Bortas content - except for episode 8, when they slip in a plot featuring Tom Jones playing, "It's Not Unusual."
Ladies and gentlemen, Mr Conway Twitty.

Didn't like E2 because gay porn between horrifying monsters isn't a turn on for me.
  #116  
Old 01-06-2019, 07:24 PM
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It just occurred to me that I share the same kinks as Bortus (granted the scenarios we saw were all standard porno clichés).
  #117  
Old 01-06-2019, 09:19 PM
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It just occurred to me that I share the same kinks as Bortus (granted the scenarios we saw were all standard porno clichés).
Going down on the jailer?
  #118  
Old 01-06-2019, 09:54 PM
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That's the thing about Bortus's scenarios -- they are like ours. We may think that our fantasies are complex, but if we try to write them down, we'll discover there isn't much substance to them. People who write porn scenarios, or perhaps, the author of things like 50 Shades of Grey are actually pretty talented in setting up a scene that gets people involved. I've never tried to write down porn, but I have tried to write fan fiction and the results are pretty lackluster even when I look at them when I'm done.

See, Bortus wrote the first one, kinda to unwind when he wanted to. Then he overused it and got bored. Then he wrote the prisoner one, 'cause that was a wild fantasy, but then he doesn't even really want to play it, giving the monotone -- "Ohnoicantdothatimavirginthatway" Then the Dr one is just boring no buildup. The final, orgy scenario provided by Lt. Urk is really more involved, kinda like Bortus's first one, with better production values.

Even Dann was into it when he was stuck inside. How cool is that? We get two insights into Dann in adjacent episodes ... except this one is from last season. They've been working on that character for a while. And I thought he was just going to be the "elevator muzac" guy.
  #119  
Old 01-06-2019, 10:07 PM
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I found the Bortus plot to be quite interesting. I like how it developed that Bortus' dive into pornography resulted from his repressed resentment of Klyden's decision to allow their child to be re-gendered.
I was kind of impressed by how they dealt with that too. One of the interesting things about the show is that it is hard to guess which aspects are going to be made the jokes and which are going to be played straight. The couples therapy, which I thought was going to be a funny scene turned out to be rather dramatic, for example.

The aliens did exist only to show Bortus the importance of families, but that's what aliens are for in shows like this...
  #120  
Old 01-06-2019, 10:20 PM
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Two Bortascentric episodes in a row was not a good call.
I agree, Bortus pisses and Bortus gets kinky. What's next
? Bortus flings poo?
  #121  
Old 01-07-2019, 08:26 AM
carnivorousplant carnivorousplant is offline
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I agree, Bortus pisses and Bortus gets kinky. What's next
? Bortus flings poo?
Bortus has an identical twin who is an internet troll.
  #122  
Old 01-07-2019, 08:42 AM
MadTheSwine MadTheSwine is offline
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What?
  #123  
Old 01-07-2019, 10:33 AM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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I hope the Orville screenwriters aren't following this thread.
  #124  
Old 01-08-2019, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Helena330 View Post

At the beginning when Bortus asked to leave early because he didn't feel well, and then Ed and Kelly said it was his third time that week, Dr. Finn was standing right there! I fully expected her to go after him down the hallway. But no, she stood there looking stupid. ???
That bugged me too. I also expected Klyden to go to the captain to complain about all of Bortus' long hours, only for Ed to go, "Wait a second..."

TNG touched on holodeck addiction with the Barclay episode, and even Geordi admitted to falling in love with a holo-Leah Brahams.

Bortus bugs me. I'm sure it's not the actor, but if they're trying to set him up as some sort of Klingon they are failing badly. ISAAC has more emotional range than Bortus. Worf had humor, anger, tenderness, even romance. Bortus is being portrayed as a wooden spoon. And as captain I would be pissed that his holodeck shenanegins meant they couldn't save all the people on the planet. That to me warrants at least a reduction in rank. Not a "Oh, I'm pissed but you're so brave to do what I ordered you to do, even though you saved less than half of the people we could have."
  #125  
Old 01-08-2019, 05:40 PM
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That bugged me too. I also expected Klyden to go to the captain to complain about all of Bortus' long hours, only for Ed to go, "Wait a second..."
That's how I was expecting it to come out, too.

And, yes, there really needed to be SOME punishment for Bortus. Maybe not a reduction in rank, so they don't need to change the cast by replacing him, but...something.

Aside from those two points, and the porn segments going on too long (the prison and doctor ones, specifically) - and, hey, if they cut those back, they could have had a minute or two extra to spend on the rescue - I liked this one well enough. It was an important move in Bortus and Klyden's relationship.
  #126  
Old 01-08-2019, 08:54 PM
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So hey, apropos of nothing, I found a link that suggests that The Orville is already green-lit for season 3.

https://www.cinemablend.com/televisi...ason-3-renewal
  #127  
Old 01-10-2019, 03:55 PM
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Odd to hear Bortus describing the sexual urge as primal, "like a baby seeking its mother's teat." Isn't his species (mostly) male and oviparous? That struck me as kind of jarring, is "motherhood" (let alone mammalian suckling) a concept he would use for a simile?

Last edited by Bryan Ekers; 01-10-2019 at 03:56 PM.
  #128  
Old 01-10-2019, 03:57 PM
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The show is off to a poor start for season 2. So many things were just wrong with that episode and the 1st one was OK but a no action episode.
  #129  
Old 01-10-2019, 04:23 PM
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Odd to hear Bortus describing the sexual urge as primal, "like a baby seeking its mother's teat." Isn't his species (mostly) male and oviparous? That struck me as kind of jarring, is "motherhood" (let alone mammalian suckling) a concept he would use for a simile?
Perhaps it is a translation from his language to Union Basic or whatever they speak.
  #130  
Old 01-10-2019, 06:00 PM
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Odd to hear Bortus describing the sexual urge as primal, "like a baby seeking its mother's teat." Isn't his species (mostly) male and oviparous? That struck me as kind of jarring, is "motherhood" (let alone mammalian suckling) a concept he would use for a simile?

Milk production predates live birth in mammals, as proved by the egg-laying, milk-producing (but nipple-less) monotremes.
  #131  
Old 01-10-2019, 06:29 PM
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Milk production predates live birth in mammals, as proved by the egg-laying, milk-producing (but nipple-less) monotremes.
Not surprising to hear him reference milk; the question is why would he reference a mother?
  #132  
Old 01-10-2019, 06:42 PM
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Not surprising to hear him reference milk; the question is why would he reference a mother
Shut your mouth!
  #133  
Old 01-10-2019, 06:44 PM
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Jus' talkin' 'bout Bortus
  #134  
Old 01-10-2019, 10:55 PM
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the preceding two post are just an example of why I love this place.
  #135  
Old 01-11-2019, 12:14 AM
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great - now who's gonna open it?
  #136  
Old 01-11-2019, 12:22 AM
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I like how it developed that Bortus' dive into pornography resulted from his repressed resentment of Klyden's decision to allow their child to be re-gendered.
Well, that's what Bortus says pushed him to porn, but it sounded kinda contrived to me. I could see him harboring a resentment for Klyden and it may lead to "divorce" (with extreme prejudice) at some stage, but it's awfully convenient to blame someone else when you get caught doing something embarrassing, even if the connection is a tad tenuous.
  #137  
Old 01-11-2019, 12:54 AM
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Hm. Didn't see that coming. At least she didn't do a full Tasha Yar.



Also, I liked the episode, but it should have been "You need to readjust to higher gravity...so we are turning up the artificial gravity in your quarters." (Roll credits.)


Are we going to get a new Seinfeld actor per episode this season?
  #138  
Old 01-11-2019, 01:21 AM
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I liked the episode overall.

I wish they at least attempted to explain why they couldn't just change the gravity for her to begin with. Even if not her quarters they literally have shuttles on board with their own gravity control. Sorry you are going to have to spend a few hours a day chilling in a shuttle.

It sucks they spent an episode on character development for a character they are booting.

I don't think i'm going to like Patrick Warburton's character.
  #139  
Old 01-11-2019, 03:04 AM
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Are we going to get a new Seinfeld actor per episode this season?
I suspect more people know Warburton as Joe Swanson than Puddy, so his pre-existing connection to MacFarlane is what would have got him.

Also, mentioning guest stars and not the fact that both the Xelarian fathers were doctors on Star Trek?
  #140  
Old 01-11-2019, 06:55 AM
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Anyone know why the actor is leaving? It seems unlikely to me that the writers would just decide to write her out of the show.

I'm guessing either she wanted out, maybe to pursue other things, or contract negotiations failed.
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  #141  
Old 01-11-2019, 09:19 AM
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Anyone know why the actor is leaving? It seems unlikely to me that the writers would just decide to write her out of the show.

I'm guessing either she wanted out, maybe to pursue other things, or contract negotiations failed.
Rumors swirl about all of those and more. She was quoted as saying she didn't like her makeup process. That bought out bad fan reaction(TM) because we don't want to lose this actress, and the actor who plays Bortus endures way more.

But yeah, I think she does have a movie coming out soon. Then again, so did Denise Crosby. Hence, evil tar attack. Then again, Alara is still alive, maybe she'll run a security agency on her home planet, solve mysteries, go to community college for other "slow" Xelayans. So guest spots are a possibility, and maybe even a spin-off -- CSI:Xelaya. Or out of spite, they put her in a Krill costume. Boy, Denise Crosby got off easy with the Romulan ears.

Over on reddit, they can't stop mentioning the actress and Seth used to date. They insist that that's the entire problem. Its seems kinda wierd to me that grownups can't be grownups. I kinda only mention it her before it becomes a multi response thread on what a horrible boyfriend Seth McFarlane is. Obviously. Look at the humor of Family Guy. Obviously. "Saw Your Boobs" Oscar song. Its all so obvious.

Well. I don't think so.
  #142  
Old 01-11-2019, 10:02 AM
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Well, that's what Bortus says pushed him to porn, but it sounded kinda contrived to me. I could see him harboring a resentment for Klyden and it may lead to "divorce" (with extreme prejudice) at some stage, but it's awfully convenient to blame someone else when you get caught doing something embarrassing, even if the connection is a tad tenuous.
Does it niggle at anyone else that the Bortus/Klyden relationship seems to map so closely to 50s-type middle class hetero couples? One partner earns the income, the other partner is a stay-at-home housekeeper/parent?

For that matter, what in the world does Klyden do all day? They're living in a smallish apartment in what is undoubtedly highly automated circumstances. Little housework, no yardwork, maintenance type things taken care of by, er, the maintenance department.

Okay, child care is a full time job with infants and toddlers, but the kid looked to be mature enough to be school aged, so unless he's being home-schooled for some reason, Klyden must have an awful lot of spare hours to fill.
  #143  
Old 01-11-2019, 10:07 AM
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Doesn't bother me at all. Having one parent (at least) give full time attention to child rearing seems like an objective ideal for the minimum level of care a child should receive. I don't think it's some sort of antiquated quirk of old timey values, it just makes sense.

I mean, if they wanted to go way more sci-fi about it, and the baby was raised by an intelligent tub of goo that the species shoots out of its ass, that's fine too, but there's nothing that bothers me about a traditional bread earner/child rearer situation.
  #144  
Old 01-11-2019, 12:49 PM
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It's also kinda normal in TV land that if you have a somewhat atypical relationship that everything else about it has to be conservative possibly to the point of being old-fashioned.
Either to make some point, or, in this case, for humor.

(The atypical thing here being that they are a gay couple but averting most of the tropes of what a gay couple in fiction looks like)

I would be happier if he got a job but it also doesn't bother me.
  #145  
Old 01-11-2019, 01:52 PM
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It's also kinda normal in TV land that if you have a somewhat atypical relationship that everything else about it has to be conservative possibly to the point of being old-fashioned.
Either to make some point, or, in this case, for humor.

(The atypical thing here being that they are a gay couple but averting most of the tropes of what a gay couple in fiction looks like)
That's true, I guess. The "don't be afraid, they're really just like you" trope. But it seems kind of a waste: you've got an alien species to play with, why do they have to be so mundanely human?

Quote:

I would be happier if he got a job but it also doesn't bother me.
Or a hobby. Or a goal. Something to be more than "Of Bortus"
  #146  
Old 01-11-2019, 02:06 PM
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Minor thing: Malloy has had a couple of observational lines which I like: the thing about "seeing this planet makes me realize my family are trash" in this ep and saying that "women pick him" and his insecurities in the first ep.
Not really jokes, but I just like these things because I can relate to them, yet they are things TV characters don't normally say.
  #147  
Old 01-11-2019, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Mijin View Post
It's also kinda normal in TV land that if you have a somewhat atypical relationship that everything else about it has to be conservative possibly to the point of being old-fashioned.
Either to make some point, or, in this case, for humor.

(The atypical thing here being that they are a gay couple but averting most of the tropes of what a gay couple in fiction looks like).
But they aren't gay, are they? By the standards of their own species, they're straight.
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Old 01-11-2019, 02:35 PM
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But they aren't gay, are they? By the standards of their own species, they're straight.
I would say neither label particularly makes sense for a species with (practically) only one gender.

What matters is how we 21st century humans perceive them. For us, society has still only recently, and not everywhere in the world, come to accept same-sex relationships. This is relevant for understanding why the relationship is written the way it has been: same-sex relationship, two huge guys from a warrior (or at least: super strong, stoic) culture...it's unusual for us. So they play against that with Klyden watching black and white movies while eating rocky road.

Oh but you made me remember the best line of the episode: the one about "we can't legally ask if he's planning on dividing in 2"

Last edited by Mijin; 01-11-2019 at 02:37 PM.
  #149  
Old 01-11-2019, 08:06 PM
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I'm upset Alara is gone. It was nice to see two Star Trek doctors (I think that was Phlox, wasn't it?) Nice play that the villain's son was basically Andrew Wakefield. The whole home intruder scene was horrifyingly tense.

Did I mention I'm upset that Alara is gone?
  #150  
Old 01-11-2019, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Arkcon View Post
Rumors swirl about all of those and more. She was quoted as saying she didn't like her makeup process. That bought out bad fan reaction(TM) because we don't want to lose this actress, and the actor who plays Bortus endures way more.

But yeah, I think she does have a movie coming out soon. Then again, so did Denise Crosby. Hence, evil tar attack. Then again, Alara is still alive, maybe she'll run a security agency on her home planet, solve mysteries, go to community college for other "slow" Xelayans. So guest spots are a possibility, and maybe even a spin-off -- CSI:Xelaya. Or out of spite, they put her in a Krill costume. Boy, Denise Crosby got off easy with the Romulan ears.

Over on reddit, they can't stop mentioning the actress and Seth used to date. They insist that that's the entire problem. Its seems kinda wierd to me that grownups can't be grownups. I kinda only mention it her before it becomes a multi response thread on what a horrible boyfriend Seth McFarlane is. Obviously. Look at the humor of Family Guy. Obviously. "Saw Your Boobs" Oscar song. Its all so obvious.

Well. I don't think so.
I hope Halston Sage leaving is a temporary thing; she had an interesting character. My 8-year old granddaughter thought it was hilarious when she saw (part of) an episode and I told her this "smallest" crew member was actually the strongest.

IMDB doesn't show a whole lot of new projects for her, but I can see her career taking off. She was in Goosebumps but I didn't recognize her until I saw her name in the credits. She looked a bit different as a normal person.
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