Straight Dope Message Board

[Ancient Erudite]

Had Luke accepted Han's offer to join him just prior to the attack on the Death Star, how would his life have played out?

[Snarky_Kong]

Slow descent into alcoholism as he lived with the regret of not joining the rebellion and heard reports of the Empire crushing resistance.

[Just Asking Questions]

Well, it's sort of metaphysical.

See, the Force needs to be balanced. Having just all good or bad won't cut it. When the Force was only used for good for 1000 years in the old Republic, the Force spontaneously generated Anakin Skywalker out of nothing. If the Jedi hadn't been so godawfully smug about themselves, and been just a bit bad, the Force would have been happy.

But they were, and hence Anakin was born. With the rise of Palapatine and Vader, the balance swung a bit to the Dark side, with only Yoda, Obi Wan and to a small extent Luke and Leia to balance it. As it was, when Luke defeated Vader they were balanced.

If the emperor had vanquished the rebels at Yavin, there would have been a great imbalance. The Dark side would have had absolute power with no opposition.

So the Force would have, er, forced Luke somehow to end up on Dagobah. He would have crashlanded, or something. And Luke would have trained, and finished his training, with no Bespin distractions. He would have been a fully trained Jedi with two real hands when he met Vader and Palpatine, with knowledge of ALL the Jedi skills. And he would have won.

As an aside, Jabba and Boba Fett would still be alive, Lando would still be in charge of the Bespin facility, and the Endor Holocaust would not have occurred.

[bump]

I never had the impression that the Force was actively compelling balance like you suggest.

I always took it more like a situation where when it was out of balance, it was more like some kind of feedback mechanism that made things proportionately more difficult for the currently superior side and that much easier for the inferior side.

[Just Asking Questions]

I'd agree, except for the whole "virgin birth" of Anakin. Hey, it's in the films, not my fault!

[Sitnam]

Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions

I'd agree, except for the whole "virgin birth" of Anakin. Hey, it's in the films, not my fault!

All the prequal haters jump on the Midichlorian garbage, but the truth is even in the Holy Trinity cannon strength in The Force had a genetic component.

Whats really bullshit in the Star Wars universe is why that is never addressed. Why wouldn't they become an aristocracy ruling over all the other muggles and selective breeding to make the Kwisatz Haderach. Given this, how hard is it to keep track of the few that stray and then become Sith?

"Difficult to see, the future is" Bitch, please. They have lineages, marriage certificates, you have these guys phone numbers, ID badges. Your school trained them, they have fucking grades.

[Folacin]

Originally Posted by Sitnam

"Difficult to see, the future is" Bitch, please. They have lineages, marriage certificates, you have these guys phone numbers, ID badges. Your school trained them, they have fucking grades.

But in theory, they aren't supposed to be fucking, right? That's why Anakin and Padme had to marry in secret?

[Hypno-Toad]

After the Death Star destroyed the rebels at Yavin, Han would have told Luke, "See? If you'd gone with 'em, you'd be just as dead." And Luke would have been forced to agree. Jabba would have gotten his payoff, letting Han and Luke hang around his palace. Tarkin would have boarded up that exhaust port after it took a couple close hits from Red and Gold squadrons. But he'd have been unsatisfied with having no one to punish over it, what with Krennick and the Rebels at Scarif dead and the Death Star designers all dead at Krennicks' hand. The Death Star never has to fire another shot for the rest of its' operational lifespan and eventually gets converted to a strip mall and later into an affordable housing project.

[silenus]

Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions

...and the Endor Holocaust would not have occurred.

So. you're saying bad things would have happened?

[Just Asking Questions]

Originally Posted by Hypno-Toad

... and eventually gets converted to a strip mall and later into an affordable housing project.

That's no strip mall. It's a ball mall.

I gotta bad feeling about this!

[Little Nemo]

The Death Star would have destroyed the major centers of the rebellion as originally planned. And then Imperial forces would have rounded up the remaining individuals who were associated with the rebellion - people like Luke, Han, and Chewie.

They had already done too much to be able to walk away safely. Their names were on a list. Their only hope for long-term survival was for the rebellion to succeed. And if their assistance was a tipping point, it was in their own self-interests to help the rebellion.

[Ancient Erudite]

I say his father Darth Vader would find Luke who was learning how to use force powers. Vader trains Luke into a Sith apprentice. In time Luke fulfills his destiny of killing the Darth Sidious.

With Vader in charge, the empire collapses in two movies. The way it played out, Han was the one who made the final choice. Without him, Luke would have been stardust.

[Sitnam]

Originally Posted by Folacin

But in theory, they aren't supposed to be fucking, right? That's why Anakin and Padme had to marry in secret?

The first three movies, it was established power with the force can be inherrited genetically, “I have this power and so do you, because you are my sister”, “I will be a great Jedi, like my father”.

There. This incredible power can be inherited. Think of all the imaginable fuckups through out our history that have gained incredible power by being born into it and imaginge for a second they actually WERE born with incredible powers. Imagine how that would change the makeup of a planet...a galaxy.

Yeah, the prequels, they aren’t SUPPOSED to love and have children. Yeah. Abstenence works. But fuck that, why would they prevent ‘specials’ from getting together as long as they could control the offspring.

This isn’t explored, because Star Wars isn’t science fiction. It is space opera. That’s fine, it’s just weird, like hearing elocution criticisms from people watching Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure.

[Chronos]

Yeah, the prequels, they aren’t SUPPOSED to love and have children. Yeah. Abstenence works. But fuck that, why would they prevent ‘specials’ from getting together as long as they could control the offspring.

Because they can't control the offspring, and because a lot of those kids with incredible powers are going to be, as you say, fuckups.

[ExTank]

I think the ghost of Obi Wan would've bugged the ever-loving-shit out of Luke If he'd tried to walk away.

[Little Nemo]

Originally Posted by Chronos

Because they can't control the offspring, and because a lot of those kids with incredible powers are going to be, as you say, fuckups.

You could have made that story work. If George Lucas had ever read Dune, he could have "borrowed" the idea of a secret organization having a long term program of breeding superior human beings. And say that this Bene Jedi read Anakin and Padme's genes and declared that their offspring would be a super-powerful yet amoral being who would threaten the galaxy. Then have the two of them fall in love and rebel against the Jedi who are trying to keep them apart. This would have created an intriguing ambiguity about whether the Jedi were the good guys or the bad guys. That would have made for an interesting and coherent story arc.

The problem with this idea as an effort to fanwank some sense into the prequels is that the children whose birth the Jedi were trying to prevent were Luke and Leia; the heroes of the story and the two people who saved the galaxy and restored the Jedi.

[nightshadea]

the funny thing is according to all 3 old republic games the jedi wasn't always required to be celibate just in some "eras" they were and some eras they weren't

it was decided by the ones in charge …...

[Chronos]

Right, so they're not reading genes to that level. They just know that the children of a Jedi would be powerful, and they don't know if they'll be good or bad, and they don't want to take the chance.

[Ancient Erudite]

Originally Posted by ExTank

I think the ghost of Obi Wan would've bugged the ever-loving-shit out of Luke If he'd tried to walk away.

Not if Vader got to him first and told Luke the truth.