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Old 10-22-2018, 06:54 PM
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Anyone still watching Elementary?


Season 6 just dropped on Hulu and I am catching up.

But the writing seems to have taken a turn for the worse. Every episode seems far less believable and more focused on the personal lives of Holmes and Watson.

Or am I just getting grouchy in my old age?
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:25 PM
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The sixth season aired on CBS from April until September of this year. At first, I thought CBS had cancelled the show and was burning off the episodes, because why else would they run a big series like that in the summer. But then CBS OK'ed a seventh season. And since you haven't finished the sixth season, I'll avoid spoiling it, except to say that changes are afoot.
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:17 PM
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The season picks up, and, yes, changes are afoot. I'm looking forward to season 7.
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Old 10-22-2018, 11:29 PM
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Even though they mixed it up a bit with more personal stories, I didn't find them distracting or overwhelming, or to ultimately go nowhere (sometimes they introduce a character that clearly was intended to recur and matter, but we barely ever see them again or their story fizzles out).

I just enjoy the writing and performances. It's ridiculous sometimes, but that's CBS for you (whatever you do, avoid the new FBI show, it will make you angry), and as intimated, this season ended on a tidy-ish conclusion that, now they were renewed after all, will take things in a fresh direction.
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Old 10-23-2018, 12:39 AM
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Hell yes, I'm still watching. Love Elementary.
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Old 10-23-2018, 12:59 AM
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Netflix stopped after season five. Bummer!
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Old 10-23-2018, 01:44 AM
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I wanted to start this thread, but I thought probably no one cared.

I actually disliked the direction the season ender went. Not enough to quit watching, but I wasn't happy. The ease at which
SPOILER:
everyone is convinced Joan murdered the guy, and now she can't come back to the US
was annoying.

It reminded me of the later Burn Notice, where the show run off the rails after Michael outright murdered his old boss. Everybody had to act stupid for the story arc to continue. When you as a writer do that, maybe it should be a sign it isn't a good arc.

Still, there's no reason S7 has to be bad. I'm just worried.
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Old 10-23-2018, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions View Post
I wanted to start this thread, but I thought probably no one cared.

I actually disliked the direction the season ender went. Not enough to quit watching, but I wasn't happy. The ease at which
SPOILER:
everyone is convinced Joan murdered the guy, and now she can't come back to the US
was annoying.

It reminded me of the later Burn Notice, where the show run off the rails after Michael outright murdered his old boss. Everybody had to act stupid for the story arc to continue. When you as a writer do that, maybe it should be a sign it isn't a good arc.

Still, there's no reason S7 has to be bad. I'm just worried.
That isn't what happened.
SPOILER:
The FBI is convinced Joan murdered Michael. But Sherlock confessed to it on record, but is being protected by MI6, so he can't come back to the USA. Joan chose to move to 221A Baker St, but is free to travel back to the USA whenever she likes.

And in case it wasn't obvious - that episode was written to serve as a series finale since it wasn't known at the time if they'd be renewed. The show runner has said that if he knew there would be another season, he would have handled the Michael situation very differently. And now they've got a few dilemmas for next season - how to move the show back to NYC, what's the relationship going to be between Sherlock/Joan & Capt. Gregson, since they've now all conspired to protect a murderer, who is going to replace Marcus, etc.
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Old 10-23-2018, 07:45 AM
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I'm still watching Elementary. I like the way Sherlock is characterized: fiercely loyal to his friends, disgusted by criminals, sometimes rude in pursuit of justice, but aware (and somewhat regretful) that he's being so. This seems to be a closer match to Doyle's Holmes than "Sherlock" (the BBC program) manages.
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Old 10-23-2018, 09:19 AM
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I'm still watching! I watched the latest season already.

I love the show and the characters. One thing that seemed annoying this season is that they would have several twists and turns in an episode, with very interesting schemes that could have led to murder. But ultimately the answer is not related to any of the 7 interesting, quirky leads they followed and sometimes even feels like an afterthought! "Yeah we caught the murderer he's being interrogated offscreen."

Kind of like they had a bunch of cool ideas for how murders could happen still left in their notebooks, and they rushed to get them all into the show before it ended.

I dunno, the mysteries are leaving me a bit cold. Good thing I dig the characters.
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Old 10-23-2018, 10:24 AM
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I thought I'd posted about this before, but can't readily find it.

Elementary is one of 3 or so drama we record and watch. This past season my wife and I repeatedly commented on our perception that the writing/directing had changed for the worse. One of the eps we thought especially lousy was directed by Lucy Liu, but I did not check to see if I thought her responsible for all of them. An increasing number of eps had the plot developed - not by action - but instead through extended dialogue. Basically, one character would explain what was going on. Sorry I lack the vocabulary to better explain, and cannot cite to specific eps.

Joan's sudden urge to have a kid did not bode well. And yeah - the rush to suspect her of murder was pretty extreme. Add in crazy stuff like the one detective being solicited by the Marshalls', and the now-regular reliance on the Everyone deus ex machina, and week-to-week we were discussing whether or not we wanted to continue watching.
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Old 10-23-2018, 11:17 AM
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That isn't what happened.
OK, half right. Joan doesn't have to stay away, but the FBI
SPOILER:
still thinks she actually committed the murder, and Sherlock simply took the heat.

Not much of an improvement. And ham-handed writing, because only by the weirdest coincidences could
SPOILER:
she even be suspected. If she'd been seen doing anything at all, she'd have been cleared. And making Gregson's daughter the actual killer is just assassinating a different character. Two, actually, because gregson lets her get away with it. They're all corrupt.
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Old 10-23-2018, 12:10 PM
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... Not much of an improvement. And ham-handed writing, because only by the weirdest coincidences could
SPOILER:
she even be suspected. If she'd been seen doing anything at all, she'd have been cleared. And making Gregson's daughter the actual killer is just assassinating a different character. Two, actually, because gregson lets her get away with it. They're all corrupt.
Yeah - given their repeated use of digital traces to locate someone or establish their presence, combined with their near constant texting of each other, I found it especially tough to accept that she hadn't used a traceable electronic device the entire tome.

And what the finale says about the Capt is unpalatable.
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Old 10-23-2018, 01:21 PM
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I'm still watching. I kinda forgot it was on since the season was so wonky. Thank goodness for On Demand. I look forward to season 7.
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Old 10-23-2018, 02:16 PM
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Netflix stopped after season five. Bummer!
Netflix? It's on Netflix?????
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Old 10-23-2018, 03:24 PM
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And what the finale says about the Capt is unpalatable.
Especially after his confrontation with Sherlock after he almost murdered who he thought was Moriarty. He wasn't even willing to cut Holmes any slack on that. Plus, that infamous punch to the gut "welcome back!" he gave him.

But now, when
SPOILER:
it's your own daughter, well, that's different!
  #17  
Old 10-26-2018, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions View Post
Especially after his confrontation with Sherlock after he almost murdered who he thought was Moriarty. He wasn't even willing to cut Holmes any slack on that. Plus, that infamous punch to the gut "welcome back!" he gave him.

But now, when
SPOILER:
it's your own daughter, well, that's different!
Just watched that episode. THAT was stupid.

SPOILER:
It was shown earlier that Hannah was 'middling'. Meaning she was capable police office but not bright enough to be a detective. She wasn't smart enough to catch a guy that the entire NYPD and FBI and Sherlock were searching for. And the FBI would think that Watson could hunt down and murder a guy after being released from the hospital with a concussion and 2 broken ribs? And the beatdown that Michael gave her? Watson was way too alert to be snuck up on and way to adept in hand to hand combat to be put down so easily.
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Old 10-30-2018, 02:04 AM
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I still look forward to it. Admittedly, this season was probably the weakest as far as the longer arcs -- I found Sherlock's health issues to be fairly watchable, but Joan's interest in becoming a mother was kind of annoying and I positively could not give a living shit about Michael. But that's not a big deal. I watch the show because I like seeing how they solve each week's case, and they continue to serve up some pretty fun stuff on that front.
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Old 10-30-2018, 04:58 PM
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The last episode had a valedictory feel to it (and they reverted to using some fragments of Conan Doyle's dialog, which seems to have mostly vanished from recent seasons) but it's hard to credit that even the stupidest FBI agent would believe Joan-with-broken-ribs was the murderer.
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Old 10-30-2018, 07:08 PM
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Yes, still watch, still enjoy, although I could do without the baby thing, but it doesn’t ruin it for me.
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Old 10-30-2018, 08:14 PM
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The twist at the end with Michael was interesting, but they should have played with that a bit more. They could even have taken a Dexter-ish approach with him.
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Old 08-23-2019, 11:00 AM
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Resurrecting since I didn't see a need to start a new thread for the final season. Final season spoilers ahead.

So did anyone else watch the final season? I thought it was pretty well done, with tons of references, meaningful and not, back to the original ACD stories. Reichenbach started as an interesting villain, but IMHO they ruined him when he started killing completely innocent people just because they were slightly in his way. The moral dilemma that Sherlock & Joan faced (black & white vs. shades of gray) would have been far more interesting if Reichenbach hadn't just turned into a mass murderer.

Morland's final appearance was great, as all of John Noble's appearances were.

And honestly, I thought they should have made the penultimate episode the finale. The actual finale just put a bow on the series, leaving it with everyone living happily ever after. They could have at least ponied up a few bucks to get Natalie Dormer to appear again as Moriarty, having the only connection to the Moriarty character be her minion was pretty dull.
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Old 08-23-2019, 12:11 PM
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I didn't know it was out already. I'll look for it.
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Old 08-23-2019, 12:26 PM
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Well, it's "out" in that the last season aired this summer on Thursday evenings at 10pm on the CBS broadcast network. (The old-fashioned way a show is "out".) A week ago yesterday the final episode aired. You may be able to watch the show via the On Demand service of your cable company, CBS All Access or another streaming service.
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Old 08-23-2019, 01:29 PM
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I finish watching it, stayed with it the entire run too. I thought the last season was pretty good, though I do agree it would have been more interesting if Reichenbach wouldn't have just started killing way too many people.

Was watching the last episode with my SO, who had never watched it before, and she asked if Sherlock and Joan were together. She thought they should be, I don't think she much liked the look she got from me. I'm glad they left them as partners and that's all.
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Old 08-24-2019, 02:03 PM
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I've been watching it since season 1, and I'm glad they got to have a definitive end. I predicted (as, I'll bet did a lot of people) as soon as I heard the villain was named "Reichenbach" that one of the last episodes would be called "Reichenbach Falls."

I liked the last episode, especially the twists and turns that kept me on my toes (like the funeral) but I agree it would have been better if Moriarty had actually showed up.

I'm also glad that they kept Holmes and Watson platonic until the end.

I'll miss the show. It was never one of my breakout favorites like Lucifer, but it was always a good way to spend an hour.

Now, I think Jonny Lee Miller should go on to the role he was born to play - Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz in a live-action production of Phineas and Ferb. Ever since my spouse pointed this out to me, I've found it impossible to un-see.

Last edited by Infovore; 08-24-2019 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 08-24-2019, 06:59 PM
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I’ll miss the show. I really like JLM and Lucy Liu.

I feel really clever for having caught some original story references in the last few episodes.

I like that they kept it platonic too. And that Joan’s son was “Arthur”
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:57 PM
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I found the season enders both too rushed and too much. The fake out of Joan dying - totally too much. No comeuppance for McNally. Killing Morland seemed unbelievable. He knows how to take care of himself, even if he was dealing with the might of the Chinese government, he shouldn't have been that easy to kill. Of course, Moriarty isn't dead, but why would anyone fake her burial in NYC? I assume McNally was behind the fake.

I really wanted the last scene to be Holmes and Moriarty going off together, with something like a dual voiceover.

Holmes: I will spend time with Moriarty. I will attempt to redeem her, to bring out the good I know is in her. It will be my greatest challenge.
Moriarty: I will spend time with Sherlock. I will attempt to make him see his obsession with "good" is a false path. I will bring out the evil side I know is in him. It will be my greatest challenge!
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:58 PM
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We watched it as well and ended up enjoying it a lot more than Sherlock. I think they did a much better job with characterization and I liked how everyone improved but Sherlock still had that extra bit that made him, well, him.

We did watch season six and wondered about the ending but as a possible finale, it makes sense. I also agree that the penultimate would have been a better finale.

I do think the episodes themselves were up and down in quality. Like, they would have these highly convoluted episodes, with layers of things. Then a straight forward one in comparison. And that doesn't include the episodes with Reichenbach. And, yes, expected the episode title as well!

I am sorry to see it go as I enjoyed it a lot.

Thanks for the discussion!
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Old 08-25-2019, 07:57 AM
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Killing Morland seemed unbelievable. He knows how to take care of himself, even if he was dealing with the might of the Chinese government, he shouldn't have been that easy to kill.
Any one is easy to kill, if you know them. Morland was killed because he didn't know that the world he moved in didn't exist any more. He thought he was an alpha power broker dealing with another alpha. Killing another alpha (particularly in a meeting) just isn't/wasn't done - he assumed that he was safe because of who he was and who he was meeting, but Reichenbach changed the rules on him.

Sort of the equivalent of shooting 007 in the head, instead of monologing him and using a laser.

I enjoyed the last season, and glad they wrapped it up how they did.
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Old 08-25-2019, 09:15 AM
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Season six? I just discovered this show on Hulu and am finishing up season one.
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Old 08-25-2019, 10:39 AM
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I really wanted the last scene to be Holmes and Moriarty going off together, with something like a dual voiceover.

Holmes: I will spend time with Moriarty. I will attempt to redeem her, to bring out the good I know is in her. It will be my greatest challenge.
Moriarty: I will spend time with Sherlock. I will attempt to make him see his obsession with "good" is a false path. I will bring out the evil side I know is in him. It will be my greatest challenge!
I wouldn't have liked that at all. First of all, where's Joan? The show is about Holmes and Watson, not Holmes and Moriarty. For me, it would have been an unsatisfying conclusion if she'd been left out.

Also, Moriarty would never have been gauche enough to imply she's "evil." It's like Magneto naming his organization "The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants." Real villains don't think they're "evil." Maybe "I will bring out the darkness..."
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Old 08-25-2019, 07:12 PM
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Also, Moriarty would never have been gauche enough to imply she's "evil." It's like Magneto naming his organization "The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants." Real villains don't think they're "evil." Maybe "I will bring out the darkness..."
I only used "evil" as shorthand. I'm not a tv writer - I couldn't come up with a good wording on short notice.
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Old 08-25-2019, 08:17 PM
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I only used "evil" as shorthand. I'm not a tv writer - I couldn't come up with a good wording on short notice.
Fair enough. But the only way I would have been okay with your idea is if they provided a definitive closure for Joan too (like she's getting on with her life with Arthur and the NYPD and gives Holmes her reluctant blessing to go pursue his plan). Any ending that focuses on Holmes and leaves Watson out misses the point of the whole series, IMO.
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Old 08-25-2019, 08:20 PM
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I would say Joan's life is pretty well in hand. A successful author, detective, and happy parent. She doesn't need Holmes, but they can still consult.
  #36  
Old 08-27-2019, 06:34 PM
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I'm finally watching the season where they move to the UK. They use the acid attacks in London, which were a real thing, and make them way, way more extreme. One cop saw 200 acid attacks that year alone? Were their writers employed by Fox News? Fuck off.
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Old 08-27-2019, 06:35 PM
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I'm finally watching the season where they move to the UK. They use the acid attacks in London, which were a real thing, and make them way, way more extreme. One cop saw 200 acid attacks that year alone? Were their writers employed by Fox News? Fuck off.
Wasn't that this season?
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Old 08-27-2019, 07:58 PM
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Wasn't that this season?
Yes, I think so. I stream stuff (legally, on Sky in the UK) often a bit later than the show aired so it's not necessarily obvious when one season ends and another begins.
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Old 08-29-2019, 02:01 AM
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I wasn't overly disappointed that Moriarty didn't show up in the final episode. It was a gentle, well-deserved victory lap for the series, and I don't know if seeing her would have really fit that mood.
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