Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #2551  
Old 05-07-2015, 12:01 PM
eschereal's Avatar
eschereal is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Frogstar World B
Posts: 16,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve MB View Post
He may be out of luck if they use this criterion:
Quote:
A man whose bid to become a police officer was rejected after he scored too high on an intelligence test has lost an appeal in his federal lawsuit against the city....
Amusing line at the end of the story, "Jordan has worked as a prison guard since he took the test."

But I wonder if there has been any change in this in the last fifteen years since the story was posted.
  #2552  
Old 05-08-2015, 09:11 AM
rat avatar's Avatar
rat avatar is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Continental Divide
Posts: 5,405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
Or maybe it has a little something to do with the history of "peaceful" protestors in Washington looting and smashing car windows like they did to me last year.
OH yes...all of those 'riots' in Olympia....I am calling BS on that, you are WAY too paranoid to actually hang out where the riots happen up here, despite how safe those places are.

Remember that the Seattle police...have a DOCUMENTED history of violence, bigotry and violation of citizens rights.

http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/spl...r_12-16-11.pdf

The ONLY reason this police corruption is so wide spread is that citizens like yourself are willing to completely ignore thier crimes and in fact say that the police have no duty to follow their own oath.

You may want to look at that oath BTW, the powers we gift officers is a burden on THEM to be extra careful. It is not carte blanche to arrest, beat or kill innocent citizens.

When a police officer commits a crime they are also breaking that oath which you seem to hold dear.
  #2553  
Old 05-08-2015, 11:32 AM
Smapti is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 16,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by rat avatar View Post
The ONLY reason this police corruption is so wide spread is that citizens like yourself are willing to completely ignore thier crimes and in fact say that the police have no duty to follow their own oath.
What "widespread corruption"? There is no widespread corruption. What we have lately is a series of non-stories trumped up by the race-baiting "activists" and the media because it's the flavor of the month.

Quote:
When a police officer commits a crime they are also breaking that oath which you seem to hold dear.
If a police officer commits a crime. The overwhelming majority of people who cry "police brutality" are criminals who are mad at the cops for enforcing the laws they were breaking.

Last edited by Smapti; 05-08-2015 at 11:33 AM.
  #2554  
Old 05-08-2015, 11:34 AM
FuriousGeorge is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: the Burbs, Colorado
Posts: 1,196
Everytime Smapti posts in a law enforcement thread an angel gets shanked in the wings.
  #2555  
Old 05-08-2015, 12:07 PM
elucidator is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Further
Posts: 60,067
Better in the original German.

(Not stolen from Molly Ivins, more a like a gift...)
  #2556  
Old 05-08-2015, 12:13 PM
Sinaptics is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 995
Today we have a video from 2013 finally being released after an ACLU lawsuit showing an officer doing his best place kicker impression.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-released.html

This another non-story, Smapti? He have it coming? Should have complied faster?
  #2557  
Old 05-08-2015, 01:02 PM
Smapti is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 16,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinaptics View Post
Today we have a video from 2013 finally being released after an ACLU lawsuit showing an officer doing his best place kicker impression.
So let's see if I've got this right. A career criminal who's been in trouble with the law before and since this incident resisted arrest. The police didn't shoot him, Tase him, turn the dogs on him, use their batons on him, or do anything other than use a little unarmed force. Both the grand jury and the federal government found no grounds to prosecute at the time, and the officer since went back to doing his job and the criminal went back to driving drunk and dealing illegal weapons.

But now that "white police arresting black people = RACISM" is the cause celebre of the moment until we find something else to be outraged about, they're calling a do over and charging him with assault over what they already determined to be legal.

So to answer your questions;

Quote:
This another non-story, Smapti? He have it coming? Should have complied faster?
Yes, yes, and yes.
  #2558  
Old 05-08-2015, 01:09 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 35,301
Considering that Smapti wouldn't free slaves at no risk to himself, and would turn in his neighbors if the government was rounding up their ethnic group, the fact that he has no problem with cops face-kicking people while they're on the ground is pretty unsurprising.

It's actually one of his better qualities, considering all the rest.
  #2559  
Old 05-08-2015, 01:17 PM
Ibn Warraq is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 9,504
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Considering that Smapti wouldn't free slaves at no risk to himself, and would turn in his neighbors if the government was rounding up their ethnic group, the fact that he has no problem with cops face-kicking people while they're on the ground is pretty unsurprising.

It's actually one of his better qualities, considering all the rest.
Wait, what!

Smapti doesn't believe in freeing slaves!!!????

On what basis does he believe this?

Do you have a link to his claim?

Not challenging BTW, it's just that's such a bizarre claim.
  #2560  
Old 05-08-2015, 01:20 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 35,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibn Warraq View Post
Wait, what!

Smapti doesn't believe in freeing slaves!!!????

On what basis does he believe this?

Do you have a link to his claim?

Not challenging BTW, it's just that's such a bizarre claim.
Sure -- here it is. Read the follow up several posts, if you like. And in addition to this, Smapti believes that MLK Jr.'s civil disobedience was wrong, and he believes that the only fucking morally correct actions for a slave in the pre-1860s US was to [must suppress vomit] obey their master.

He really said this stuff.
  #2561  
Old 05-08-2015, 01:24 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 35,301
Smapti also believes that if he has knowledge of a bomb on a plane, it's morally acceptable for him to not tell the authorities.
  #2562  
Old 05-08-2015, 01:39 PM
Ibn Warraq is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 9,504
Wow, thanks for the info.

It's like parody.
  #2563  
Old 05-08-2015, 01:39 PM
Smapti is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 16,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibn Warraq View Post
Wait, what!

Smapti doesn't believe in freeing slaves!!!????

On what basis does he believe this?
I do not believe that slavery should be permitted or that efforts to abolish slavery are illegitimate.

What I do believe is that in a democracy one is obligated to obey the law even if one finds it morally distasteful to do so. Democracy cannot function unless the will of the people is respected and adhered to - deciding that your own personal moral compass trumps the law and so you're going to ignore or actively disobey the laws you don't like is anathetical to the democratic process.

Last edited by Smapti; 05-08-2015 at 01:41 PM.
  #2564  
Old 05-08-2015, 01:40 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 35,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
I do not believe that slavery should be permitted or that efforts to abolish slavery are illegitimate.

What I do believe is that in a democracy one is obligated to obey the law even if one finds it morally distasteful to do so.
What does democracy have to do with what you said? There was nothing about democracy in the hypothetical in which you refused to assist slaves in freeing themselves at no risk to yourself. In fact, you 'justified' your choice by saying that it would be wrong to help those slaves escape because those slaves might be harmed if they escaped -- nothing about democracy.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 05-08-2015 at 01:41 PM.
  #2565  
Old 05-08-2015, 01:41 PM
Jack Batty's Avatar
Jack Batty is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: The Astral Plane.
Posts: 15,515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
What I do believe is that in a democracy one is obligated to obey the law even if one finds it morally distasteful to do so.
Except for police officers; they can do whatever the fuck they want.

Last edited by Jack Batty; 05-08-2015 at 01:42 PM.
  #2566  
Old 05-08-2015, 01:45 PM
BigAppleBucky's Avatar
BigAppleBucky is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Long Island
Posts: 2,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinaptics View Post
Today we have a video from 2013 finally being released after an ACLU lawsuit showing an officer doing his best place kicker impression.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-released.html

This another non-story, Smapti? He have it coming? Should have complied faster?
At least they didn't taser him for not putting his arms behind his back after being KO'd.
  #2567  
Old 05-08-2015, 01:47 PM
Smapti is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 16,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
In fact, you 'justified' your choice by saying that it would be wrong to help those slaves escape because those slaves might be harmed if they escaped
And I stand by that. If I release a slave and he is later captured and slowly tortured and beaten to death for escaping, then I have committed murder.
  #2568  
Old 05-08-2015, 01:48 PM
madmonk28 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 12,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibn Warraq View Post
Wow, thanks for the info.

It's like parody.
Posts like these are why I've concluded that he's either a troll, or has some serious mental issues. If he's a troll, engaging him is what he wants, but if he has mental health issues, it's not right to keep engaging him.
  #2569  
Old 05-08-2015, 01:56 PM
mhendo is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 25,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibn Warraq View Post
Wow, thanks for the info.

It's like parody.
The term "fascist" gets thrown around a bit too frequently, but despite his claim to respect democracy, Smapti appears to be one of the few remaining actual, genuine, dyed-in-the-wool fascists.
  #2570  
Old 05-08-2015, 02:07 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 35,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
And I stand by that.
So it has nothing to do with democracy then -- why did you mention it?

Quote:
If I release a slave and he is later captured and slowly tortured and beaten to death for escaping, then I have committed murder.
And if you choose to not release a slave, and that slave is raped, tortured, and beaten to death because that's what the master wants to do, you have not committed murder?

If this is your calculation, it's utterly monstrous, and just continues to confirm what a terrible, horrible neighbor and fellow human being you are (based strictly on your posts).
  #2571  
Old 05-08-2015, 02:10 PM
RTFirefly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 39,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
What I do believe is that in a democracy one is obligated to obey the law even if one finds it morally distasteful to do so. Democracy cannot function unless the will of the people is respected and adhered to - deciding that your own personal moral compass trumps the law and so you're going to ignore or actively disobey the laws you don't like is anathetical to the democratic process.
That makes perfect sense for those that are part of the democratic process.

In 1860, the franchise was limited to white men. (Feel free to note exceptions that only marginally affect the rule.) The four million slaves didn't get to vote on the legitimacy of slavery, nor did women get to vote on either those laws or the laws limiting their legal rights.

Also, our democracy, at its creation, included something called the Bill of Rights, which encapsulates the notion that we have some basic rights that can't be legislated away. Again, Negro slaves were excluded from those rights, without any 'democratic' say in the matter.

It was democracy for us other folks, but not for them. Why should they have been expected, let alone required, to respect the democratic will of a bunch of other people, just because it was decided democratically among that other group? "Hey, we white folks all voted, and the outcome was that you black folks are still slaves. But it was all democratic. So shaddup and keep pickin' cotton."
  #2572  
Old 05-08-2015, 02:11 PM
Smapti is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 16,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
So it has nothing to do with democracy then -- why did you mention it?
Because sometimes, in the real world, there's more than one reason why a given action is the right one.

Quote:
And if you choose to not release a slave, and that slave is raped, tortured, and beaten to death because that's what the master wants to do, you have not committed murder?
No, because I never became part of the scenario, and nothing happens that would not have happened if I didn't exist.

Quote:
If this is your calculation, it's utterly monstrous, and just continues to confirm what a terrible, horrible neighbor and fellow human being you are (based strictly on your posts).
Who would you rather live next door to - me, or Freddie Gray?
  #2573  
Old 05-08-2015, 02:16 PM
elucidator is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Further
Posts: 60,067
Some straight lines are just too easy.
  #2574  
Old 05-08-2015, 02:17 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 35,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
Because sometimes, in the real world, there's more than one reason why a given action is the right one.
This is not one, since my hypothetical said nothing about democracy (and in fact, strongly implied that whatever government was present was anything but democratic). Not that obeying a democratic law that allows slavery is morally acceptable.

Quote:
No, because I never became part of the scenario, and nothing happens that would not have happened if I didn't exist.
You became "part of the scenario" as soon as you gained the knowledge that you could help and chose not to. If you pass by a wounded child and do nothing to help, you are part of the scenario and failed as a human.

Your choices are unconscionably bad. I can't imagine how you can even live with yourself knowing that you believe inaction is an acceptable response to these scenarios.

Quote:
Who would you rather live next door to - me, or Freddie Gray?
Definitely Gray. It's a cinch. You would walk right by my child if they were hurt. You would say nothing if you knew of a bomb on a plane nearby. You would turn me in if the government was looking for Jews. You're a monstrous and terrible person, based on what you've posted. Much, much worse than a petty criminal (if Gray was indeed a petty criminal). And much, much more dangerous to your neighbors.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 05-08-2015 at 02:19 PM.
  #2575  
Old 05-08-2015, 02:20 PM
FuriousGeorge is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: the Burbs, Colorado
Posts: 1,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post

Who would you rather live next door to - me, or Freddie Gray?
You aren't here for the hunting, are you?
  #2576  
Old 05-08-2015, 02:20 PM
Smapti is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 16,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
You became "part of the scenario" as soon as you gained the knowledge that you could help and chose not to. If you pass by a wounded child and do nothing to help, you are part of the scenario and failed as a human.
You are, no doubt, aware of the things happening to women in Nigeria and Iraq under the control of Islamist militias. Have you "failed as a human" because you could help and choose not to? How do you even sleep at night with as much guilt as you must be facing?

Quote:
Definitely Gray. It's a cinch. You would walk right by my child if they were hurt. You would say nothing if you knew of a bomb on a plane nearby.
Whereas he'd just steal your car or shoot you.

Last edited by Smapti; 05-08-2015 at 02:21 PM.
  #2577  
Old 05-08-2015, 02:23 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 35,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
You are, no doubt, aware of the things happening to women in Nigeria and Iraq under the control of Islamist militias. Are you "part of the scenario" because you could help and choose not to? How do you even sleep at night with as much guilt as you must be facing?
I help as much as I can while balancing my responsibilities to others. But sometimes I can do more to help them and others, and I feel guilty when I miss the opportunity.

But nice try justifying fucking doing nothing while walking past an injured child.

Quote:
Whereas he'd just steal your car or shoot you.
I'm unaware of Gray having a history of gun violence or car theft. But even if he did, either would be preferable to fucking doing nothing while walking past my hurt child.

Disgusting.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 05-08-2015 at 02:24 PM.
  #2578  
Old 05-08-2015, 02:25 PM
Smapti is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 16,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
But nice try justifying fucking doing nothing while walking past an injured child.
I never said I wouldn't. I said I wouldn't be obligated to.
  #2579  
Old 05-08-2015, 02:27 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 35,301
You would be obligated to. That's part of your obligation as a human being. I sincerely hope that, as cowardly and morally bankrupt as you are, Smapti, you wouldn't actually walk right past an injured child in real life without stopping to help. I hope that you're just trying to make some sort of indecipherable philosophical point with this one.

If you aren't "obligated to", then, why would you do it?

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 05-08-2015 at 02:28 PM.
  #2580  
Old 05-08-2015, 02:36 PM
Smapti is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 16,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
If you aren't "obligated to", then, why would you do it?
Because I wanted to?
  #2581  
Old 05-08-2015, 02:38 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 35,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
Because I wanted to?
If you feel no obligation, then you're a terrible person and a terrible member of society. Part of being in society means an obligation to provide the very basics of aid (and all this really means is calling 911, if you don't want to or aren't able to directly provide aid) to those who are in immediate need if you encounter them in your community.

In any case, if you actually act in the way that your posts advocate, you're an absolutely terrible neighbor, and a terrible member of society -- much worse than petty criminals.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 05-08-2015 at 02:40 PM.
  #2582  
Old 05-08-2015, 02:48 PM
Smapti is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 16,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Part of being in society means an obligation to provide the very basics of aid (and all this really means is calling 911, if you don't want to or aren't able to directly provide aid) to those who are in immediate need if you encounter them in your community.
It also includes obeying the law, and you have no problem treating that as optional.
  #2583  
Old 05-08-2015, 02:52 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 35,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
It also includes obeying the law, and you have no problem treating that as optional.
Wrong, liar/coward. I'm all for obeying the law -- including for cops.
  #2584  
Old 05-08-2015, 02:55 PM
Lumpy's Avatar
Lumpy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota US
Posts: 16,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
I never said I wouldn't. I said I wouldn't be obligated to.
We're veering into Objectivism territory here...
  #2585  
Old 05-08-2015, 02:56 PM
Sinaptics is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
So let's see if I've got this right. A career criminal who's been in trouble with the law before and since this incident resisted arrest. The police didn't shoot him, Tase him, turn the dogs on him, use their batons on him, or do anything other than use a little unarmed force. Both the grand jury and the federal government found no grounds to prosecute at the time, and the officer since went back to doing his job and the criminal went back to driving drunk and dealing illegal weapons.

But now that "white police arresting black people = RACISM" is the cause celebre of the moment until we find something else to be outraged about, they're calling a do over and charging him with assault over what they already determined to be legal.

So to answer your questions;



Yes, yes, and yes.
What in blue fucking blazes does his past or future incidents have to do with this incident? He was complying with teh police office when the officer decided to KICK HIM IN THE FACE AND BREAK HIS JAW. I can see nothing that justifies that level of force.

I personnally, would love to find out why the Grand Jury and AG found nothing to charge. Did they see that video!? If not, why not? Did the prosecutor tank the Grand Jury proceedings? I can't see how any sane person sees that video and thinks, "Eh. Probably had it coming."
  #2586  
Old 05-08-2015, 03:12 PM
Smapti is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 16,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinaptics View Post
What in blue fucking blazes does his past or future incidents have to do with this incident?
As usual with these outrages du jour, the suspect is not some pure-as-the-driven snow innocent. He's a career criminal who's continued his life of crime since this incident and will likely continue to do so until he gets himself killed. Maybe if he'd gotten some common sense beaten into him a little more often he'd have learned to straighten up and fly right by now.

Quote:
He was complying with teh police office when the officer decided to KICK HIM IN THE FACE AND BREAK HIS JAW.
He had to be told what, four times to get on the ground before he slowly started doing so? He looked like he was more worried about his hat then the men with guns.

Quote:
I can see nothing that justifies that level of force.
Did we watch the same video?
  #2587  
Old 05-08-2015, 03:13 PM
CannyDan's Avatar
CannyDan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: East coast of Florida
Posts: 2,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
It also includes obeying the law, and you have no problem treating that as optional.
Obeying the law as a member of society isn't the same as instantly obeying the often incomprehensible and/or contradictory commands of some cop. And that's what so often goes so horribly wrong. Resulting in an unnecessary casualty to some citizen.

Ever watch one of those cop shows? I admit, I've done it, usually in the middle of a night of insomnia. Next time you do, pay attention to the "takedowns". I've seen cops screaming for people to "roll over on your face!!!" when the person is lying prone on their belly. Shout "Put your hands out! Put your hands up! Put 'em up! Behind you! (repeats)..." Do what?!!? "Gimme your hand! Stop resisting! Stop resisting!" at someone whose hands are already in cuffs, and more I won't bother to recount. The commands are incomprehensible even to me, sitting in my living room with the luxury of instant rewind. Even people who may be trying to comply have little chance of guessing what the cop actually wants, since it often differs from what he is screaming for the person to do.

And what is with the "Real quick!" thing? Is that some new jargon in cop-speak? Again, watch a cop show and see how many times cops say "Real quick!" as part of their interaction with citizens. It seems wildly inappropriate for situations that would probably benefit from calm, slow, and deliberate actions.

And that's the point. The cop is the person in control, the one who sets the tone for the interaction. Using stupidly inappropriate phrases like "real quick!" from the first moment of contact, through screaming contradictory and frighteningly incomprehensible commands to effect a "detention" is certain to escalate contact situations, thus making them more dangerous for everyone. Cops should be better trained and encouraged to look for ways to de-escalate encounters rather than agitate citizens, offenders or not.
  #2588  
Old 05-08-2015, 03:13 PM
Smapti is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 16,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
I'm all for obeying the law
Unless the law involves anything you personally find morally distasteful and/or personally inconvenient.
  #2589  
Old 05-08-2015, 03:16 PM
CannyDan's Avatar
CannyDan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: East coast of Florida
Posts: 2,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
... Maybe if he'd gotten some common sense beaten into him a little more often he'd have learned to straighten up and fly right by now....
And this is why there's a Pit thread devoted to calling you names. Rightly so, I might add.
  #2590  
Old 05-08-2015, 03:16 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 35,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
Unless the law involves anything you personally find morally distasteful and/or personally inconvenient.
Bullshit, liar, unless you're just referring to fucking slavery. And if you want to claim that it's wrong to disobey laws for slavery, then just continue to dig your own morally bankrupt, cowardly grave.
  #2591  
Old 05-08-2015, 03:39 PM
Ibn Warraq is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 9,504
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
I do not believe that slavery should be permitted or that efforts to abolish slavery are illegitimate.

What I do believe is that in a democracy one is obligated to obey the law even if one finds it morally distasteful to do so. Democracy cannot function unless the will of the people is respected and adhered to - deciding that your own personal moral compass trumps the law and so you're going to ignore or actively disobey the laws you don't like is anathetical to the democratic process.
Ok, then I'm confused as to why you condemned Dr. King.

How could Mississippi in the early 1960s be considered a democracy when black people weren't allowed to vote?

Or do you think one can be a democracy while denying citizens the right to vote because they're black?
  #2592  
Old 05-08-2015, 03:51 PM
Smapti is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 16,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibn Warraq View Post
How could Mississippi in the early 1960s be considered a democracy when black people weren't allowed to vote?

Or do you think one can be a democracy while denying citizens the right to vote because they're black?
Of course it can, unless your argument is that American democracy began in 1965.
  #2593  
Old 05-08-2015, 04:15 PM
Fear Itself is offline
Cecil's Inner Circle
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Flavortown
Posts: 35,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
As usual with these outrages du jour, the suspect is not some pure-as-the-driven snow innocent. He's a career criminal who's continued his life of crime since this incident and will likely continue to do so until he gets himself killed. Maybe if he'd gotten some common sense beaten into him a little more often he'd have learned to straighten up and fly right by now.
Or maybe he will swear to get revenge by killing any unsuspecting cop he can get the drop on.
  #2594  
Old 05-08-2015, 04:36 PM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm is offline
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 62,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
Did we watch the same video?
Yes...but only one of us giggled and got a stiffie, pervert.
  #2595  
Old 05-08-2015, 04:38 PM
MaxTheVool is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 11,892
Bumping this post as it was ignored the first time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti
At this point, it should be obvious to anyone with the slightest iota of a self preservation instinct that not treating the police with the same respect one would a mama grizzly is not going to end well for you.
To an extent you are right... and that situation is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Hypothetical: we get very clear video of a day in the life of a particular cop. He stops 10 cars for speeding. The first 9 are black drivers who are calm and respectful, and he gives them tickets. The last is another black driver, same general age/appearance/demeanor as the first 9. But when the cop asks him to roll down his window, he mutters "fucking honky cops". The cop then beats him savagely and arrests him on trumped up charges.


Now, clearly the guy took actions which he could have avoided which contributed to his beating. And some liberals in this thread might be tempted to use hyperbolic language and claim that the cop was so racist that he would beat up black people for literally no reason whatsoever, which was clearly disproved by the fact that the cop did NOT beat the first 9 black drivers.


So in your opinion, who was at fault? Who was responsible for what happened?
  #2596  
Old 05-08-2015, 05:59 PM
BigAppleBucky's Avatar
BigAppleBucky is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Long Island
Posts: 2,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
What I do believe is that in a democracy one is obligated to obey the law even if one finds it morally distasteful to do so. Democracy cannot function unless the will of the people is respected and adhered to - deciding that your own personal moral compass trumps the law and so you're going to ignore or actively disobey the laws you don't like is anathetical to the democratic process.
In 1945 and '46 the victorious allies imprisoned many and executed some Germans who obeyed orders from their duly and democratically chosen leaders. There are limits. Always.
  #2597  
Old 05-08-2015, 09:12 PM
Ibn Warraq is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 9,504
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
Of course it can, unless your argument is that American democracy began in 1965.
So, just to be clear, you think that the state government of Mississippi of 1960 was democratically elected even though 40% of the population were denied the right to vote based solely on their race?


Ok, two questions.

One, if think that a government can be a democracy even when it disenfranchises people solely on their race, then how exactly do you define a democracy?

Second, what exactly is your level of education?

Thanks in advance.
  #2598  
Old 05-08-2015, 09:43 PM
dasmoocher is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,467
You know, I wonder what would happen to Smapti's attitude if he was misidentified by a cop(s) and had the snot beaten out of him for no reason.

In a town I once lived in, the county cops raided the mayor's house by mistake and shot his dog, so these things do happen.

Cop: "Stop resisting!"
Smapti: " I'm not resisting!"
Cop: "Yes, you are."

Down rain the nightsticks...
  #2599  
Old 05-09-2015, 09:41 AM
monstro is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 20,679
Woman stun gunned by border patrol officer for being loud and indignant

I can't say I would have been nearly as assertive as this woman was. But I may have been if they had been detaining me indefinitely for no clear reason and I was already late for work or an appointment. I hope the lady does sue that officer and wins.
  #2600  
Old 05-09-2015, 10:01 AM
eschereal's Avatar
eschereal is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Frogstar World B
Posts: 16,468
Huh. Anyone else see the map on that page showing the location of the stop as in south-central Kazakstan?
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:22 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017