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#1
02-20-2019, 02:27 PM
 Charter Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Edmonton, Alberta Posts: 2,641

## Interesting betting situation in Jeopardy

A couple days ago - https://youtu.be/6aeBm6PwA-w?t=1004

Going into FJ:

1st - 13,400
2nd - 9,200
3rd - 8,400

So, it followed SOP whereby 1st assumed 2nd would go all-in so 1st bet to cover that plus a dollar... that amount was 5,001.

3rd realized that the only way she was going to win was if there was a tough question* and both 1st and 2nd got it wrong... so she bet nothing and won by a dollar.

*it was not a tough question but the three of them still got it wrong.
#2
02-20-2019, 03:10 PM
 Guest Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Santa Fe, NM, USA Posts: 7,050
Could you explain the betting rules & objectives for those of us unfamiliar with the show?
#3
02-20-2019, 03:19 PM
 Guest Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Portland of the NW Posts: 1,837
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Riemann Could you explain the betting rules & objectives for those of us unfamiliar with the show?
Most money wins basically. You bet a certain amount of your available money that you'll answer the question right. If you get it right, you get that money added to your total. Get it wrong, it gets removed.

Player 1: Has 13,400. Best 5001 that they'll answer it right. If they get it right, their total 'score' is 18,401. They get it wrong, it's 8,399 (13400-5001)

Player 2: Wants to win so bets the whole shebang. Bets 9,200 they'll get it right. If they had, they're score would be 18,400. Getting it wrong drops them to 0.

Player 3: Sees they have little chance of winning by betting anything at all so bets 0.

They all get it wrong. Final scores are:
Player 1: 8399
Player 2: 0
Player 3: 8400

Player 3 wins by 1 by doing nothing and answering wrong lol
#4
02-20-2019, 03:25 PM
 Guest Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Chicago! (no more burbs) Posts: 2,154
Nitpick, in this case 9,200 guy didn't do the expected thing and only bet 7,601.
#5
02-20-2019, 03:40 PM
 Guest Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Portland of the NW Posts: 1,837
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Folly Nitpick, in this case 9,200 guy didn't do the expected thing and only bet 7,601.
Did they? I didn't see the actual episode, I just was guessing off what the OP said. What's the strategy in that? It beats out Player 1 if they don't bet at all but that's unlikely and even if it did happen, why such a specific number like 7601? And even if Player 1 loses their first place for whatever reason, Player 2 is still relying on Player 3 to bet the farm and lose in the case where Player 2 got the answer wrong as well. It's like Player 2 is basing their strategy on everyone getting the answer wrong while also betting their entire pool of money. Disclaimer, math is not my strong suit lol So I'm probably missing something obvious here.
#6
02-20-2019, 03:48 PM
 Guest Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Santa Fe, NM, USA Posts: 7,050
Ok, so there's one question left, you can stake as much of your bank as you want on your own answer to that question, and the only thing that matters is who has most nominal money at the end - if you have less nominal money than the winner, you get nothing?
#7
02-20-2019, 03:50 PM
 Guest Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Chicago! (no more burbs) Posts: 2,154
I can kiiiiinda see it. Assumption, top player wants to stay at 10k or above even if they don't know the answer. Therefore, they won't bet more than 3400. I'll bet enough to take me to 16801 if I get it right and the top person gets it right.

Last edited by Folly; 02-20-2019 at 03:51 PM. Reason: ETA: Responding to Angelsoft
#8
02-20-2019, 03:50 PM
 Guest Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Portland of the NW Posts: 1,837
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Riemann Ok, so there's one question left, you can stake as much of your bank as you want on your own answer to that question, and the only thing that matters is who has most nominal money at the end - if you have less nominal money than the winner, you get nothing?
Per Wiki:
Quote:
 Non-winners receive consolation prizes. Since May 16, 2002, consolation prizes have been \$2,000 for the second-place contestant(s) and \$1,000 for the third-place contestant. Since the show does not generally provide airfare or lodging for contestants, cash consolation prizes alleviate contestants' financial burden.
#9
02-20-2019, 03:55 PM
 Guest Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 4,546
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Folly Nitpick, in this case 9,200 guy didn't do the expected thing and only bet 7,601.
Right, and this is where it helps to think more than one step ahead. The 2nd place person guessed the leader would bet \$5001. If they bet it all and both people get the right answer, they still lose by \$1. If they get it right and the leader gets it wrong, they win no matter what they bet. But if they both get it wrong, the leader will presumably be left with \$8399, so the 2nd place person will win as long as they bet less than \$801.

Unless the leader thinks of this too, and therefore bets \$3399. That way if 2nd place bets \$800 and gets it right, they have \$10,000. The leader is left with \$10,001 if they get it wrong and still wins.

You can keep going down this rabbit hole trying to guess what the opponent will do and determine the perfect counter-bet. I haven't followed it far enough to find any sense in the bet of \$7601. ETA: Folly has it right, that bet makes sense if you think you both will get it right.

Last edited by TroutMan; 02-20-2019 at 03:56 PM.
#10
02-20-2019, 03:58 PM
 Guest Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Chicago! (no more burbs) Posts: 2,154
Turns out there was Iocaine powder in both goblets.
#11
02-20-2019, 04:12 PM
 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,952
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Folly Turns out there was Iocaine powder in both goblets.
Never go into Final Jeopardy against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line!
#12
02-20-2019, 04:45 PM
 Charter Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Washington DC Posts: 10,399
I can't believe no one knew the right answer.
#13
02-20-2019, 04:55 PM
 Guest Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Portland of the NW Posts: 1,837
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Larry Borgia I can't believe no one knew the right answer.
Well everyone knew what the right answer was. But they didn't know what the right question was.
#14
02-20-2019, 05:00 PM
 Guest Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 1,175
Even I knew the right answer. And I hate science fiction.
#15
02-20-2019, 05:05 PM
 Guest Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: UK Posts: 1,939
We don't get Jeopardy here but I dislike from the context of the questions given the fact such lazy questions would have presumably been accepted, if they were the correct questions. It should be who is Isaac Asimov?, who is Arthur C Clarke? and who is Jules Verne? Lazy answering like that annoys me on quiz shows and should be ruled incorrect.
#16
02-20-2019, 05:21 PM
 Charter Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Washington DC Posts: 10,399
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Mr Shine We don't get Jeopardy here but I dislike from the context of the questions given the fact such lazy questions would have presumably been accepted, if they were the correct questions. It should be who is Isaac Asimov?, who is Arthur C Clarke? and who is Jules Verne? Lazy answering like that annoys me on quiz shows and should be ruled incorrect.
Jeopardy has always accepted last names only, unless clarification is needed. If a last name is ambiguous, Alex will ask for clarification.
#17
02-20-2019, 05:23 PM
 Guest Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 4,546
And if you give an incorrect first name, you could get it wrong, so it's smart to give only last names, not lazy.
#18
02-20-2019, 05:37 PM
 Charter Member Moderator Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: The Land of Cleves Posts: 81,811
One thing that surprised people about Watson the computer's appearances on the show was that it did go all the way down the rabbit hole of game theory, and so made bet amount that didn't appear to make any sense, and looked totally random to mere humans.

Quote:
 Quoth Riemann: Ok, so there's one question left, you can stake as much of your bank as you want on your own answer to that question, and the only thing that matters is who has most nominal money at the end - if you have less nominal money than the winner, you get nothing?
Who has the most isn't quite the only thing that matters: If you have the most, then that score value is the amount that you take home. So, for instance, if the top player going into the final question has more than double the second-place player, he can guarantee victory by making a small or zero bet... but he might still want to make a big bet, if it's a category he's really good at, so he brings home a bigger prize.

On the other hand, the winner also gets to come back to appear on the show again the next day, for the opportunity to win even more money, so it's not just the value of your score that's at stake.
#19
02-20-2019, 06:35 PM
 Guest Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Santa Fe, NM, USA Posts: 7,050
Quote:
 Originally Posted by AngelSoft Well everyone knew what the right answer was. But they didn't know what the right question was.
Part of the reason I never got into watching that show is this annoying conceit.
Reversing questions and answers just doesn't make sense half the time anyway.
#20
02-20-2019, 06:36 PM
 Guest Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 2,040
The bet of 7601 was to guarantee that a correct answer beats player 3. Basically player 2 was using the normal first place strategy of betting enough to double the next player, plus a dollar.
#21
02-20-2019, 06:47 PM
 Charter Member Moderator Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: The Land of Cleves Posts: 81,811
Back when Jeopardy started, quiz shows were common, so they needed some sort of gimmick to stand out over all of the rest. Nowadays, it's by far the most popular one, and so the gimmick isn't needed any more, but it's hung on through inertia.
#22
02-20-2019, 06:51 PM
 Guest Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,689
Quote:
 Originally Posted by TroutMan ETA: Folly has it right, that bet makes sense if you think you both will get it right.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Folly I can kiiiiinda see it. Assumption, top player wants to stay at 10k or above even if they don't know the answer. Therefore, they won't bet more than 3400. I'll bet enough to take me to 16801 if I get it right and the top person gets it right.
Y'all are overthinking it. Player 3 has \$8,400 and if they bet it all and win, they have \$16,400. Player 2 bets \$7,601 so if they also get it right, they'll have \$16,401. Player 1 doesn't factor into this, other than for the others to think "If he's right, he wins."
#23
02-20-2019, 08:06 PM
 Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 2,345
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Chessic Sense Y'all are overthinking it. Player 3 has \$8,400 and if they bet it all and win, they have \$16,400. Player 2 bets \$7,601 so if they also get it right, they'll have \$16,401. Player 1 doesn't factor into this, other than for the others to think "If he's right, he wins."
This. Player 1 wins if they get the question right, so just remove that player from the pool and only bet enough to beat all-in from Player 3. That way, if everyone is wrong, there's a chance to beat both by still having a little left in the kitty.

Where it fails is that if everyone gets it wrong (worst case winning scenario), Player 1 wouldn't have lost enough to be lower than Player 2 unless he/she went for a greedy all-in style bet.
#24
02-20-2019, 09:16 PM
 Guest Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Chicago! (no more burbs) Posts: 2,154
Quote:
 Originally Posted by borschevsky The bet of 7601 was to guarantee that a correct answer beats player 3. Basically player 2 was using the normal first place strategy of betting enough to double the next player, plus a dollar.
Ha! You're right of course.
#25
02-20-2019, 09:50 PM
 Charter Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,894
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Chisquirrel unless he/she went for a greedy all-in style bet.
See Cliff Clavin's Jeopardy appearance for an example of this in action.
#26
02-21-2019, 10:59 AM
 Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 6,324
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Larry Borgia I can't believe no one knew the right answer.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by jaycat Even I knew the right answer. And I hate science fiction.
What was the clue? Not seeing it in this thread so far...
#27
02-21-2019, 11:03 AM
 Guest Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Chicago! (no more burbs) Posts: 2,154
Category: British Authors

Born in 1866, he has been called "The Shakespeare of Science Fiction"

Incorrect answers:

SPOILER:
(1st) Asimov (2nd) Verne (3rd) Clarke

Actual answer:

SPOILER:
H.G. Wells
#28
02-21-2019, 11:20 AM
 Isaiah 1:15/Screw the NRA Charter Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: SoCal Posts: 50,775
That was a super-easy FJ question. Even my wife got it right, and she hates SF.
#29
02-21-2019, 12:06 PM
 Charter Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Edmonton, Alberta Posts: 2,641
Yeah and the guesses were terrible. For "British Authors" they guessed an American, a Frenchman, and a Brit born a generation and a half later.
#30
02-21-2019, 12:10 PM
 Guest Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Santa Fe, NM, USA Posts: 7,050
Quote:
 Originally Posted by K364 Yeah and the guesses were terrible. For "British Authors" they guessed an American, a Frenchman, and a Brit born a generation and a half later.
I can understand the Jules Verne guess, it you just did a brain fart on the nationality part. As a kid I remember reading his books and saying his name in an anglicized way, I'm not sure I knew he was French until later. He otherwise comes close to fitting the bill.
#31
02-21-2019, 12:12 PM
 Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 6,324
Quote:
 Originally Posted by K364 Yeah and the guesses were terrible. For "British Authors" they guessed an American, a Frenchman, and a Brit born a generation and a half later.
I mean, I missed it too. The only guy I could come with that kind of sort of fit the bill was Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, which I was about 95% sure was wrong, but at least he's British and fit the timing.
#32
02-21-2019, 06:16 PM
 Guest Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,609
So the third place player pulled off a Bradbury maneuver; and on a science fiction question no less? That's kind of awesome.
#33
02-22-2019, 12:56 AM
 Guest Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,598
Quote:
 Originally Posted by jaycat Even I knew the right answer. And I hate science fiction.
Getting the right answer is not quite the same thing as knowing the right answer. OTOH the questions the three contestants came up with were all silly.
#34
02-22-2019, 02:28 AM
 Guest Join Date: May 2001 Location: a condo in hell 10th lvl Posts: 4,549
the turn the answer into a question was a play on the quiz show scandals ..merv Griffiths wife said "something like why not just give them the answer and make them figure out the question?"

it wasn't successful the first time but in the 80s people wanted a smarter game show than wheel of fortune .. so merv brought it back but it was competing with wheel so they packaged it together and then it took off

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