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  #2451  
Old 10-10-2019, 02:20 PM
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^^
To be fair, the Fox News site does have the story, but it's way down on the page among a large number of minor stories and easy to miss, which I guess is the idea. Other sites have it as a lead headline or at least a major headline, even foreign media.
  #2452  
Old 10-10-2019, 02:28 PM
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How does Trump keep THESE schmucks from having to testify?
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  #2453  
Old 10-10-2019, 02:31 PM
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Hum, it seems that a Trump appointee at the Office of Management and Budget was involved with signing off on some of the paperwork required to delay the aid for Ukraine, which supposedly is a deviation from the normal protocol there.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/10/polit...ent/index.html
  #2454  
Old 10-10-2019, 02:32 PM
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I've actually come to believe that Trump genuinely doesn't believe that he's done anything wrong. And, that he genuinely believes all of his conspiracy theories. That's both terrifying and sad to consider.
  #2455  
Old 10-10-2019, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
I've actually come to believe that Trump genuinely doesn't believe that he's done anything wrong. And, that he genuinely believes all of his conspiracy theories. That's both terrifying and sad to consider.
Respectfully disagree. He knows well enough to try and keep his misdeeds secret. That demonstrates a consciousness of guilt. Re the conspiracy theories, he has admitted at various times his awareness that they aren't true, only that they work well on weak minds. Birtherism is one example of that.

Last edited by Aspenglow; 10-10-2019 at 02:39 PM.
  #2456  
Old 10-10-2019, 02:39 PM
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I've actually come to believe that Trump genuinely doesn't believe that he's done anything wrong. And, that he genuinely believes all of his conspiracy theories. That's both terrifying and sad to consider.
I've got a good friend who had quite a bit of experience dealing w/ big money New Yorkers. In his opinion, Trump typifies a significant subset of such folk, who will say whatever it takes to achieve their goals. They honestly don't think of it as "lying." The concept of truth just doesn't enter into it.

I have no personal experience one way or the other.
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  #2457  
Old 10-10-2019, 02:51 PM
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Jay Sekulow made a statement that none of this has anything to do with trump!
Never mind that these turkeys were doing Giuliani’s bidding in Ukraine, which was requested by trump.
And had lunch with Giuliani at the Trump Hotel, right before getting arrested fleeing the country....
  #2458  
Old 10-10-2019, 03:13 PM
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If it this difficult to to hold accountable the dumbest President in history along with his dufus lawyer, imagine would it be like if the people currently in power were actually competent at being crooked.
  #2459  
Old 10-10-2019, 03:19 PM
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Trending on Twitter, a Trump tweet 7 years-old today:

Quote:
Has Barack Obama been caught red handed laundering money into his campaign from illegal online foreign donations? Media?
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...401934850?s=19
  #2460  
Old 10-10-2019, 03:23 PM
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Moderating


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Wait, we can advocate killing millions of people in Elections now and not get so much as warned for it? Sweet. Or is this one of those special privileges that only special people who belong to the same party as Bone get?
Clearly you know that comments about moderation belong in ATMB. No more in this thread.

[/moderating]
  #2461  
Old 10-10-2019, 03:27 PM
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If it this difficult to to hold accountable the dumbest President in history along with his dufus lawyer, imagine would it be like if the people currently in power were actually competent at being crooked.
Like Mitch, for example?
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  #2462  
Old 10-10-2019, 03:33 PM
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This morning on NPR I heard a former White House Counsel saying that the President has certain rights (confronting witnesses, for example) during the inquiry. The host repeated the common grand jury analogy, noting and that accused have no rights to confront witnesses during such hearings. The guest said that comparing the inquiry to a grand jury/indictment was not accurate but I missed or didn't understand why. The guest further said that in order to give the inquiry legitimacy the House should agree to some of the WH demands. One one hand I've heard//read that the letter from Cipollone was utterly lacking from a legal standpoint and now this guest was implying that he has a point(s). What's the straight dope? Is there such a thing or is all dependent on they eyes of the beholder?
Hear are two recent articles that address this issue. The first is from JustSecurity and opens with:
Quote:
The White House letter of October 8 refusing all executive branch cooperation with the ongoing House impeachment inquiry is, simply put, a public relations exercise. The legal arguments it intersperses between insults to members of the House Democratic leadership and appeals to the President’s base voters are without foundation.
The second is behind the New York Times paywall - Trump Wants a Fight. Pelosi Can Hit Back. and discusses some of the strategic issues the Speaker is dealing with

Quote:
The House of Representatives has undertaken the impeachment inquiry of a president only four times in American history. Each time, the House has set its own ground rules. The Constitution prescribes no specific process, nor does federal law.
...
Speaker Nancy Pelosi wants to avoid a situation in which the House leadership is conceding that the White House can dictate any of the terms of how an impeachment is conducted, and what sort of process counts as “legitimate.” Once the House makes that concession, the White House will again move the goal posts, undermining Congress’s role as a coequal branch with the authority to manage its impeachment inquiry.
  #2463  
Old 10-10-2019, 03:40 PM
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A question for Bill Barr:
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Senate Judiciary Committee's Dianne Feinstein and all committee Democrats today called on the Justice Dept. to explain why it decided to not investigate "Trump's solicitation of foreign interference in the 2020 election during a phone call with the Ukrainian president."
  #2464  
Old 10-10-2019, 04:24 PM
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"I figured you guys had this one."

I am reminded of that old line about history repeating, first as tragedy, then as farce. Johnson's impeachment was the original case. Nixon's was tragedy. Clinton's was farce. And from what I see these days, we're well into slapstick territory now.
  #2465  
Old 10-10-2019, 04:32 PM
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Sondland might be regretting getting involved in all this. With the new attention on him, it came out that he lists his residence as a room in one of his hotels in Seattle. His wife is the listed owner of their house in Portland and their beach house on the Oregon coast.

Oregon has a state income tax, Washington does not.
  #2466  
Old 10-10-2019, 04:33 PM
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Someone on MSNBC just mentioned that if Giuliani was meeting the two guys at a public restaurant right before they were arrested that the odds are virtually certain they were being surveilled visually and very high that the conversation was recorded. I didn't catch who he was (heard on radio, sorry), but he sounded like he'd done this a time or two hundred.
  #2467  
Old 10-10-2019, 04:36 PM
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Someone on MSNBC just mentioned that if Giuliani was meeting the two guys at a public restaurant right before they were arrested that the odds are virtually certain they were being surveilled visually and very high that the conversation was recorded. I didn't catch who he was (heard on radio, sorry), but he sounded like he'd done this a time or two hundred.
Frank Figluzzi and/or Glen Kirchner. And yeah, they have.
  #2468  
Old 10-10-2019, 04:45 PM
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And from what I see these days, we're well into slapstick territory now.
The attorney for Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman (the businessmen arrested today) is Trump's former lawyer, John Dowd, and he uses Comic Sans typeface, including in a legal letter to Congress. Other former Trump lawyer, Ty Cobb, also used it.
  #2469  
Old 10-10-2019, 04:52 PM
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After Rudy’s two Ukrainian friends were arrested today, I must say that his testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee will be so much more interesting.

I think the hearing has been rescheduled to three days after hell freezes over.
  #2470  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:00 PM
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The attorney for Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman (the businessmen arrested today) is Trump's former lawyer, John Dowd, and he uses Comic Sans typeface, including in a legal letter to Congress. Other former Trump lawyer, Ty Cobb, also used it.
When you're a professional clown, you have to get all the details just right.
  #2471  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:03 PM
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After Rudy’s two Ukrainian friends were arrested today, I must say that his testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee will be so much more interesting.

I think the hearing has been rescheduled to three days after hell freezes over.
Remember that the Senate has a very different purpose in this than the House. I am of the opinion that any Senate questioning of Giuliani would be designed as an opportunity for him to gaslight and muddy the waters. Giving it the imprimatur of the hallowed Senate rather than FOX.
  #2472  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:13 PM
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Ukraine Clown Posse
  #2473  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:22 PM
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Man, the covfefe is strong today!
  #2474  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:23 PM
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Trump:
Quote:
Asked about two men with ties to Rudy Giuliani arrested earlier today, Pres. Trump says, "I don't know those gentlemen. Now, it's possible I have a picture with them, because I have a picture with everybody."

"Maybe they were clients of Rudy," he adds. "You'd have to ask Rudy."
  #2475  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:26 PM
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Which one will happen first:

1. Guiliani flips on Trump.
2. Trump throws Guiliani under the bus.
  #2476  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:28 PM
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Which one will happen first:

1. Guiliani flips on Trump.
2. Trump throws Guiliani under the bus.
3. Guiliani gets arrested, cops a plea.
  #2477  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:30 PM
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Trey Gowdy, announced last night as Counsel to the President as part of the fight against impeachment, can't start representing Trump until January because of "lobbying rules", by which time this may all be over.
  #2478  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:31 PM
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#2, obviously.
  #2479  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
#2, obviously.
We have a winnah!

https://twitter.com/evanmcmurry/stat...420531200?s=20

Quote:
Asked about two men with ties to Rudy Giuliani arrested earlier today, Pres. Trump says, "I don't know those gentlemen. Now, it's possible I have a picture with them, because I have a picture with everybody."

"Maybe they were clients of Rudy," he adds. "You'd have to ask Rudy."
  #2480  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:35 PM
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It's my understanding (garnered from a Law and Order episode, natch) that an attorney can not invoke attorney-client privilege for any crimes he may have been a participant in. Any actual lawyers want to weigh in on that one.
  #2481  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:37 PM
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It's my understanding (garnered from a Law and Order episode, natch) that an attorney can not invoke attorney-client privilege for any crimes he may have been a participant in.
“Oh, pardon me.”
  #2482  
Old 10-10-2019, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Skypist View Post

Never mind that these turkeys were doing Giuliani’s bidding in Ukraine, which was requested by trump. And there are pictures of them with trump so he can’t say he never met them.
.
Sure he can:


Trump denies knowing indicted Giuliani associates Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman despite photos
  #2483  
Old 10-10-2019, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
We have a winnah!

https://twitter.com/evanmcmurry/stat...420531200?s=20

Quote:
Asked about two men with ties to Rudy Giuliani arrested earlier today, Pres. Trump says, "I don't know those gentlemen. Now, it's possible I have a picture with them, because I have a picture with everybody."

"Maybe they were clients of Rudy," he adds. "You'd have to ask Rudy."
"Everybody wants a picture with me. Because I'm a stable genius with great and unmatched wisdom. Everybody wants a picture with me. But I don't know these people. Some of them might be criminals and rapists, I don't know. And some, I assume, are good people. But everybody wants a picture with me. But I don't know these people. Never saw them before in my life, believe me."

"In fact I don't know Rudy Giuliani, either. Never met the man. Is he the guy they say looks exactly like Count Orlok in Nosferatu? I thought so. Never met him. I've never met the man."
  #2484  
Old 10-10-2019, 06:05 PM
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Remember that the Senate has a very different purpose in this than the House. I am of the opinion that any Senate questioning of Giuliani would be designed as an opportunity for him to gaslight and muddy the waters. Giving it the imprimatur of the hallowed Senate rather than FOX.
Senator Graham was openly calling for the hearing with Rudy for the specific purpose of getting Rudy to talk about the Bidens. This isn’t a matter of divining the subtext for the reason for the hearing; it was literally the text.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...ine/index.html

And when Graham floated this idea of opening Rudy up to questions under oath, Dems basically said OH HELL YES GREAT IDEA!!
  #2485  
Old 10-10-2019, 06:10 PM
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"In fact I don't know Rudy Giuliani, either. Never met the man. Is he the guy they say looks exactly like Count Orlok in Nosferatu? I thought so. Never met him. I've never met the man."
As if Trump has ever watched a classic silent black&white movie like Nosferatu without proposing colorization and a new script and recording.
  #2486  
Old 10-10-2019, 06:39 PM
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Interesting fact: Fruman owns a club in Odessa called "MAFIA RAVE".
  #2487  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:08 PM
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And had lunch with Giuliani at the Trump Hotel, right before getting arrested fleeing the country....
OK, with so much happening here, I sometimes (a lot) overlook certain details. I think one of those details just sank in with me. Do I have this right: Those 2 guys were scheduled to testify before the House tomorrow, but were arrested at Dulles with one way tickets to fly out of the country today?
  #2488  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:09 PM
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Those 2 guys were scheduled to testify before the House tomorrow, but were arrested at Dulles with one way tickets to fly out of the country today?
To Ukraine, no less (according to AP Radio News).

Last edited by Skywatcher; 10-10-2019 at 07:14 PM.
  #2489  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:09 PM
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... and they had lunch with the President's personal attorney right before this flight?

Yes, you have that right.
  #2490  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skypist View Post
Jay Sekulow made a statement that none of this has anything to do with trump!

Never mind that these turkeys were doing Giuliani’s bidding in Ukraine, which was requested by trump. And there are pictures of them with trump so he can’t say he never met them.

This does feel like a big deal but I’m scared trump can stop it.

(emphasis added)
By arresting them, won't they now be able to take the 5th if asked about Giuliani?
Maybe Barr was happy to assist in taking them down.

Last edited by KarlGauss; 10-10-2019 at 07:17 PM.
  #2491  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:14 PM
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... and they had lunch with the President's personal attorney right before this flight?

Yes, you have that right.
If this happened in an episode of 24 I'd laugh it off as too obvious.
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  #2492  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:19 PM
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Wait...

It gets better...

https://twitter.com/elainaplott/stat...866885635?s=19

Quote:
Scoop: Rudy Giuliani was also planning to head to Vienna tonight--one day after Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman were trying to do the same with one-way tickets.
https://t.co/e4lJr6V3Z5
  #2493  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:24 PM
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By arresting them, won't they now be able to take the 5th if asked about Giuliani?
Maybe Barr was happy to assist in taking them down.
Well, they weren’t going to testify if they hadn’t been arrested and had been able to leave the country so I guess same difference. I am still worried slippery Don will get out of it.

Some amazing stuff happening today. Amazing as in what the hell is going on?!
  #2494  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:24 PM
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Well fuck. Republicans, as the kids today are wont to say: What the actual fuck?
  #2495  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:26 PM
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Sent to the Jeffrey Epstein wing?
  #2496  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
Wait...

It gets better...

https://twitter.com/elainaplott/stat...866885635?s=19

Scoop: Rudy Giuliani was also planning to head to Vienna tonight--one day after Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman were trying to do the same with one-way tickets.

https://t.co/e4lJr6V3Z5
Maybe, one day, Rudy might surprise everybody and choose to restore his 9/11 legacy by coming clean about everything, especially about Trump.

This will be spun by the WH of course as the desperate ravings of a sick man. They'd show videos pointing to his increasing memory loss and cognitive impairment.

Nobody's mind would be changed. But it would be great to watch.

ETA: Or maybe he'll take the fall, claiming I did those things myself. 'The president had no idea'. Then Trump will pardon him (on humanitarian grounds)

Last edited by KarlGauss; 10-10-2019 at 07:38 PM.
  #2497  
Old 10-10-2019, 08:08 PM
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Did Rudy plan on coming back?
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  #2498  
Old 10-10-2019, 08:11 PM
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Did Rudy plan on coming back?
After the guilty plea and the jail time, can we just deport him to Russia?
  #2499  
Old 10-10-2019, 08:31 PM
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The Americans
  #2500  
Old 10-10-2019, 08:33 PM
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AP News: Envoy to Ukraine was removed after pushback on Giuliani
Quote:
The former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine was removed from her post after insisting that Rudy Giuliani’s requests to Ukrainian officials for investigations be relayed through official channels, according to a former diplomat who has spoken with her.
...
[A] former diplomat said Yovanovitch refused to do “all this offline, personal, informal stuff” and made clear that the U.S. government had formal ways to request foreign governments’ help with investigations.
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