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Old 10-13-2019, 02:07 PM
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Convince me to vote for Colorado Prop DD


Should be a no-brainer. It opens up sports betting in Colorado and I support that. It also raises revenue to support clean water which is also a plus. The thing is the clean water is supported by a tax on sports betting. I have a real problem with that. I think that a tax should be on the people benefiting from it so maybe tax the state as a whole or the brewers/distillers or the farmers. I just don't see the link between sports betting and clean water so why should it all be on the casinos?

Convince me that I should support DD or that I should vote against it on principle.
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Old 10-13-2019, 02:13 PM
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Money is fungible. If you think the state needs higher potential revenue and that the unintended consequences of legalized sports betting won’t be costly vote for it.
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Old 10-13-2019, 02:15 PM
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I don't agree that a tax should be on the people benefiting - if that were generally followed, then the highest tax burdens would fall on the very wealthy and the very poor instead of the opposite. However, I also do not like programs that are tied to revenues, no matter if the revenues have to do with the programs or not. I'm not up on the rest of the contents of the bill, but that would be a mark against me voting for it that could be made up by the otherwise general awesomeness of the bill.
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Old 10-13-2019, 02:43 PM
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I’m not an expert on Colorado politics but I know the religious right still has a strong presence in the state. I know all the tech growth in Denver has made the RR have a lesser influence but they’re still out there. My guess is that tying the gambling to clean water allows people to vote for it even if they oppose gambling. It sounds like the lottery money for education gimmick that was used in the 1980s to get state lotteries established.
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:51 PM
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I don't think legal sports betting is a bad thing, and I do think clean water is a good thing, so, win-win. Why not?
Even if you're against sports betting, if you think it isn't already happening, you're naive. Seems the only people against this would be those who are already profiting, without tax, from sports betting.
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Old 10-13-2019, 05:14 PM
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This is the kind of thing that is a consequence of TABOR. The state can't raise revenues without putting it to a vote, and they end up needing to add specific spending to the proposition to convince people to vote for the new taxes. I haven't looked at the ballot measures yet, but I suspect I will vote for it. I vote for nearly every tax increase here, because the state and local governments have been starved for revenue by TABOR, and we are still generally a low tax state.

I'd much rather have the legislature set appropriate tax rates to fund the public goods and services we need. But until we burn down TABOR, I'll keep giving the metaphorical finger to Doug Bruce at the ballot box.
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:04 PM
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The tax isn't on "the people," but on "the losers" - it's a 10% tax on the profits the books make, after the 1/4% federal excise tax on the profits is paid.

I did notice a couple of things.
First, it would allow individual player-based prop bets on pro sports (e.g. the Super Bowl), but not on college sports (e.g. the CFP Championship Game, or the NCAA Division I men's basketball championship game).
Second, while it bans bets on high school sports, it does not ban them on other youth sports, such as the Little League World Series.

Offhand, I don't see a problem with this. The only problem might be if the books decide to put a surcharge on bets (i.e. instead of the usual 10-11 odds on a spread bet, it could be 20-23), but that would just turn bettors away, especially as most bets would be online.
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Old 10-14-2019, 11:23 AM
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I read the pamphlet when it came in the mail. It seems better than CC or the other one that wants to withhold the kicker.

I don't mind this as much because I don't bet on sports or anything really, so my taxes won't go up.
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Old 10-14-2019, 11:41 AM
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I don't know about Colorado, but our experience in Missouri is that after the state passed a constitutional amendment to legalize gambling, with the proceeds to go to education, the legislature then cut the previous amount it had been spending for education by whatever amount the new revenue stream brought in. Instead of education, the "new money" went to General Revenues or worse, to fund one of the many ill-advised tax cuts we pursue on our path to out-Kansas Kansas.

TLDR; yeah, money is fungible. Don't be surprised if it funges away money that had been previously spent on clean water.

Last edited by Kent Clark; 10-14-2019 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 10-14-2019, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent Clark View Post
I don't know about Colorado, but our experience in Missouri is that after the state passed a constitutional amendment to legalize gambling, with the proceeds to go to education, the legislature then cut the previous amount it had been spending for education by whatever amount the new revenue stream brought in. Instead of education, the "new money" went to General Revenues or worse, to fund one of the many ill-advised tax cuts we pursue on our path to out-Kansas Kansas.

TLDR; yeah, money is fungible. Don't be surprised if it funges away money that had been previously spent on clean water.
This was my big beef with the "keep the tax refund" measure that would keep the funds that the state over received in the coffers vs having to refund the balance to the tax payer. All that measure seemed to do to me was keep the actual bill for things secret.

If we can't properly budget X amount for the road fund and X amount for education, we can't properly run these services. I am all for gambling if they can use the amounts that they get in addition to what was budgeted and taxed for already, but when they want to replace a set amount that they know they are going to receive with some varied and unknown amount, its just a recipe for disaster.

They make it out to sound like money is coming in from a new source, but really they are redirecting money that comes in additionally and try to fill gaps here and there, and not fix the budget. I was under the impression that the budget is one of their main jobs.
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