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Old 10-22-2019, 07:35 PM
Yankees 1996 Champs is offline
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The Democratic Party and the United States Senate


Ever since 2014, when Republicans won the Senate by defeating red-state Democrats like Kay Hagan (NC), Mark Pryor (AR), Mary Landrieu (LA), Mark Begich (AK), then again in 2018 when Heidi Heitkamp (ND), Claire McCaskill (MO), Joe Donnelly (IN) and Bill Nelson (FL) lost, a lot of liberal commentators and other say that the Senate is favored towards rural and lesser populated red areas.

Some want to abolish the Senate; saying that it is unfair.

I don't think so.

The fact is that Democrats didn't run good campaigns in 2014, 2016, and 2018 in the Senate.

McCaskill, Heitkamp and Donnelly are centrist Democrats, didn't lose because of that, because those states have conservative Democrats. They lost because Republicans are favored there; it means Democrats should be competitive there; not concede it to the GOP.

You can't run an Elizabeth Warren or a Bernie Sanders in WV, MO and win.

What do you think?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/10/polit...urt/index.html
  #2  
Old 10-22-2019, 07:52 PM
Wesley Clark is online now
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Is class 2 senate has a lot of room for party switching the last 2 election cycles. In 2014 the GOP picked up 9 seats, and in 2008 the democrats picked up 8 seats.

I haven't been following so I don't know what the good swing seats are. But we only need 3 this election cycle to win the senate if the democrats also win the presidency.

Of course, winning the senate doesn't mean much if you can't get the votes together to pass anything.
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  #3  
Old 10-22-2019, 08:20 PM
Yankees 1996 Champs is offline
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Originally Posted by Wesley Clark View Post
Is class 2 senate has a lot of room for party switching the last 2 election cycles. In 2014 the GOP picked up 9 seats, and in 2008 the democrats picked up 8 seats.

I haven't been following so I don't know what the good swing seats are. But we only need 3 this election cycle to win the senate if the democrats also win the presidency.

Of course, winning the senate doesn't mean much if you can't get the votes together to pass anything.

Democrats need to pickup AZ, CO, IA, ME, SC, both GA seats or TX, KY, KS, MS to win the Senate.

I can see Democrats falling short of the 4 by picking up AZ (McSally), CO (Gardner), ME (Collins) or maybe GA (Perdue and Isakson's seat), and TX (Cornyn)

But Democrats want to pick up McSally, Gardner and Collins' seat.

Republicans want to pick up MI (Peters), AL (Jones) and maybe NH (Shaheen)

Doug Jones, a red-state Democrat is the most vulnerable Democrat in 2020. I like him, he is better than the wackos the GOP put up in Alabama.

Red state Democrats and blue state Republicans can win, but under right circumstances.
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Old 10-22-2019, 11:11 PM
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Part of the problem with the red state Democrats is that the loud activists scream every time that one of the more conservative Democrats casts a vote they don’t like. ‘Primary Joe Manchin’ DINO!!! is common on the liberal blogs and Twitter. Yes, Manchin voted for Kavanaugh, but he was getting confirmed anyway.

There simply aren’t enough states that are going to send a Bernie Sanders and an Elizabeth Warren to the Senate from their state.

It’s very easy to get on Twitter from the dorm room at some liberal arts college and rant about DINOs, it’s quite another to be a Senator from a state that overwhelmingly voted Trump.
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  #5  
Old 10-22-2019, 11:22 PM
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All hated by "True Progressives":


Quote:
Kay Hagan (NC), Mark Pryor (AR), Mary Landrieu (LA), Mark Begich (AK), then again in 2018 when Heidi Heitkamp (ND), Claire McCaskill (MO), Joe Donnelly (IN) and Bill Nelson (FL)
There goes a Dem Senate Majority and McConnell in power just from the above.

I swear, I hate "True Progressives" and purity tests more every day that passes.
  #6  
Old 10-22-2019, 11:43 PM
Thing Fish is offline
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Originally Posted by dalej42 View Post
Part of the problem with the red state Democrats is that the loud activists scream every time that one of the more conservative Democrats casts a vote they donít like. ĎPrimary Joe Manchiní DINO!!! is common on the liberal blogs and Twitter. Yes, Manchin voted for Kavanaugh, but he was getting confirmed anyway.

There simply arenít enough states that are going to send a Bernie Sanders and an Elizabeth Warren to the Senate from their state.

Itís very easy to get on Twitter from the dorm room at some liberal arts college and rant about DINOs, itís quite another to be a Senator from a state that overwhelmingly voted Trump.
So did anyone actually primary Joe Manchin? Um, no. So, other than you having to deal with some people on Twitter disagreeing with you, how is this a problem?
  #7  
Old 10-22-2019, 11:44 PM
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There goes a Dem Senate Majority and McConnell in power just from the above.

I swear, I hate "True Progressives" and purity tests more every day that passes.
We hate you, too. How in the world can progressives possibly be blamed for any of those losses?
  #8  
Old 10-23-2019, 12:16 AM
Yankees 1996 Champs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linden Arden View Post
There goes a Dem Senate Majority and McConnell in power just from the above.

I swear, I hate "True Progressives" and purity tests more every day that passes.
Exactly.

Then they complain when nothing can't get through Mitch McConnell and John Thune's-led Senate.

You need a Manchin, a Doug Jones-type.

The Republicans and their stupid rightwing purity tests towards Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski as well.
  #9  
Old 10-23-2019, 12:19 AM
Yankees 1996 Champs is offline
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We hate you, too. How in the world can progressives possibly be blamed for any of those losses?
This is the rift between moderates and progressives.

The far left did not turn out for McCaskill, Donnelly, Nelson just because they distanced from the national D brand.

Same thing will happen two weeks from now, when Jim Hood (MS), Andy Beshear (KY) and Gov. John Bel Edwards (LA) probably lose in deep-red country because they are not purist enough.

Blue state Republicans elected Baker, Christie and Pataki despite their distance from the R brand of Gingrich, Palin and Helms.
  #10  
Old 10-23-2019, 01:03 AM
HurricaneDitka is online now
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Originally Posted by Thing Fish View Post
So did anyone actually primary Joe Manchin? Um, no. So, other than you having to deal with some people on Twitter disagreeing with you, how is this a problem?
I guess it's somewhat ambiguous, what you mean by "actually primary". Joe Manchin had a primary race challenger, Swearengin, who got 30% of the vote. He didn't lose in the primary, and it's possible that's what you were referring to by "actually primary".

Along the same lines as Manchin's primary challenge, the Arizona dems progressive caucus pursued a censure motion against Sinema last month. Like Manchin's primary challenge, it failed.

Arizona progressives seek to censure Democratic Sen. Kyrsten Sinema

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 10-23-2019 at 01:05 AM.
  #11  
Old 10-23-2019, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankees 1996 Champs View Post
...
Some want to abolish the Senate; saying that it is unfair.
...
Are many people saying?
  #12  
Old 10-23-2019, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Yankees 1996 Champs View Post

The far left did not turn out for McCaskill, Donnelly, Nelson just because they distanced from the national D brand.
You're disagreeing with yourself here. You admit those are red states. How would "the far left" help them win?
  #13  
Old 10-23-2019, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
I guess it's somewhat ambiguous, what you mean by "actually primary". Joe Manchin had a primary race challenger, Swearengin, who got 30% of the vote. He didn't lose in the primary, and it's possible that's what you were referring to by "actually primary".

Along the same lines as Manchin's primary challenge, the Arizona dems progressive caucus pursued a censure motion against Sinema last month. Like Manchin's primary challenge, it failed.

Arizona progressives seek to censure Democratic Sen. Kyrsten Sinema
Given that the censure vote was specifically regarding votes to confirm Bernhardt, Barr, and opposing net neutrality, I'd say it's a pretty nice reminder that shitty behavior will be called out.

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  #14  
Old 10-23-2019, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enalzi View Post
You're disagreeing with yourself here. You admit those are red states. How would "the far left" help them win?
Even in those red states, there are plenty of far left liberals in places like Miami, St. Louis, and Indianapolis. I think those folks are less likely to turn out for a moderate just left of center Democrat.
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