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  #12401  
Old 01-17-2014, 12:15 AM
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Ah, lovely. Oklahoma state representative Sally Kern (R), thinks that homosexuality is a human wrong.
  #12402  
Old 01-17-2014, 06:06 AM
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Ah, lovely. Oklahoma state representative Sally Kern (R), thinks that homosexuality is a human wrong.
You just know she patted herself on the back for making such a clever play on words.
  #12403  
Old 01-17-2014, 09:32 AM
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Maybe one of the legal minds on the board can help out with this one. Leaving aside any feelings on Obamacare, what are the ramifications of a state law that, on it's face, is intended to thwart federal law?

Doesn't this intend a conflict? Would the SCOTUS swat this down quickly? And if so, would it have done anything except waste time and cost money?
It's not entirely clear that this would violate the Supremacy Clause.
  #12404  
Old 01-17-2014, 10:22 AM
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As a recent citizen of Tennessee, I am not that surprised.
They REALLY hate Mr. Obama around these here parts.
  #12405  
Old 01-17-2014, 10:28 AM
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Never mind that other stuff: this is what set the hairs on the back of my neck standing:There's excusing rape and then there's openly fantasizing about it, especially when you're the guy who is supposed to be responsible for prosecuting the rapists. Holy shit, Dick, but you're a massive creep who shouldn't be allowed out without a chaperone.
No, I don't think his comments must be meant as excusing or fantasizing about rape. He's merely explaining why it's common in the military. That doesn't imply that he approves of it.
  #12406  
Old 01-17-2014, 10:31 AM
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At the very least, he's excusing it. It sounds very much like he's making a "boys will be boys" argument.
  #12407  
Old 01-17-2014, 10:38 AM
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No, I don't think his comments must be meant as excusing or fantasizing about rape. He's merely explaining why it's common in the military. That doesn't imply that he approves of it.
I'm having a hard time reading ""Wouldn't you love to have a group of 19-year-old girls under your control, day in, day out?" as anything but portraying military rape in a positive (for the rapist) fantasy light, whether from his own younger-self perspective or another 25-year-old. It is definitely sympathetic in tone, and not remotely prosecutorial. He is supposed to be defending the 19-year-old girl victims, not the assailants.

It is also creepy. Really, really creepy.
  #12408  
Old 01-17-2014, 10:41 AM
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As a recent citizen of Tennessee, I am not that surprised.
They REALLY hate Mr. Obama around these here parts.
Do they say why?
  #12409  
Old 01-17-2014, 11:24 AM
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Do they say why?
Well, it is primarily because "he ain't our kind".
I didn't move here because it is a progressive community.
The place is beautiful and peaceful.
The land and the people I know are wonderful.

But, the folks who have lived here for generations are somewhat backwards.
It is something of a timewarp to drive into town and shop for groceries.
The supermarket is relatively modern, but the clientele? Less so.

It was only a decade ago that I first spotted a real live black couple shopping here.
Two of my close friends shopping with me (who happen to be black) noticed them first.
We debated whether we should say, "Hello" or just smile when we saw them.
We ended up saying "Hello" and gained a couple of new friends. They are from Indiana and apparently intend to retire here. Things have changed for the better since the 1990s but still, there is a strong residue of bigotry and racism remaining.

But, I am from the city and was raised as anti-racist as it was possible to be in Atlanta in the mid 20th century. I am a fish out of water. I am sure all the folks around here consider themselves to be good people who are just worried about somebody they don't feel comfortable with being President.

And they vote.
  #12410  
Old 01-17-2014, 11:27 AM
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He wants them to know it so much, he's made their size part of a bilingual campaign ad that, apparently, is supposed to get Latinos to support his Minuteman ass.

Actually I must admit that watching that ad improved my image of him. Before watching it I would have thought he was a bigoted asshole, now I think he's a bigoted asshole with a sense of humor. It was actually quite funny, which is hard to find in the right side of the aisle.

Last edited by Buck Godot; 01-17-2014 at 11:31 AM.
  #12411  
Old 01-17-2014, 11:43 AM
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I'm having a hard time reading ""Wouldn't you love to have a group of 19-year-old girls under your control, day in, day out?" as anything but portraying military rape in a positive (for the rapist) fantasy light, whether from his own younger-self perspective or another 25-year-old. It is definitely sympathetic in tone, and not remotely prosecutorial. He is supposed to be defending the 19-year-old girl victims, not the assailants.
It's possible that he's not saying that he would like it, he's saying the rapists like it. Doesn't mean he approves of what they like. He's explaining their state of mind.

You have to consider veracity. Is it that he's simply explaining, or do you really believe that this guy, who is supposed to defend victims, is openly sympathizing with rapists and enying them? (Though reading all the crap in this thread has certainly made me realize that there are some real crazies out there who really do mean what they say, I'll give you that.)

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It is also creepy. Really, really creepy.
It is. He should choose his words better.
  #12412  
Old 01-17-2014, 11:47 AM
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Black "called military rape "as predictable as human nature." "Think of yourself at 25," Black told a newspaper in 1996. "Wouldn't you love to have a group of 19-year-old girls under your control, day in, day out?" "
I think he's explaining human nature, and why rape is so common in the military. He's not sympathizing with it. He should have said it better though.
  #12413  
Old 01-17-2014, 11:51 AM
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Fine, but his solution, intrinsic in his poorly stated thought, seems to be, "get those hot pieces of tail away from the strapping boys," not, "get those boys to stop fucking raping people."
  #12414  
Old 01-17-2014, 11:57 AM
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Fine, but his solution, intrinsic in his poorly stated thought, seems to be, "get those hot pieces of tail away from the strapping boys," not, "get those boys to stop fucking raping people."
Again, I don't see that implication at all.
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:00 PM
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I think he's explaining human nature, and why rape is so common in the military. He's not sympathizing with it. He should have said it better though.
Right. In the same way that marital rape is "just human nature". That's the "boys will be boys" argument and even if it isn't a full excuse it is minimizing the seriousness of the offense.

Plus, of course, if there's one thing soldiers are supposed to have it's a little goddamn self-discipline.
  #12416  
Old 01-17-2014, 12:41 PM
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I think he's explaining human nature, and why rape is so common in the military. He's not sympathizing with it. He should have said it better though.
It's easy to see why his comments are seen as sympathy with the rapists, given the conclusion he derives from a parallel boys-will-be-boys argument:

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Black opposed making spousal rape a crime, citing the impossibility of convicting a husband accused of raping his wife "when they're living together, sleeping in the same bed, she's in a nightie, and so forth."
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  #12417  
Old 01-17-2014, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by lance strongarm View Post
I think he's explaining human nature, and why rape is so common in the military. He's not sympathizing with it. He should have said it better though.
Are you sure? It sounds like he is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Black (Emphasis added)
Wouldn't you love to have a group of 19-year-old girls under your control, day in, day out?
  #12418  
Old 01-17-2014, 06:17 PM
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I think he's explaining human nature, and why rape is so common in the military. He's not sympathizing with it. He should have said it better though.
I'd like to think human nature is better than that.
  #12419  
Old 01-17-2014, 07:04 PM
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I think he's explaining human nature, and why rape is so common in the military. He's not sympathizing with it. He should have said it better though.
Yes, and his idea of human nature is that every 25-year-old men—including all the people in his audience—are just waiting for a chance to have that kind of authority over young women, so that they can use that authority to rape them.

He's directly implying that there's a limit to how much you can expect this problem to be solved, because that's just the way that young men—including all of you folks—are naturally.

He's simultaneously minimizing the problem and implying that we should not expect much from efforts to solve it, and also that there's a limit to how hard we should try.

It's disgusting.
  #12420  
Old 01-17-2014, 07:14 PM
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I think he's explaining human nature, and why rape is so common in the military. He's not sympathizing with it. He should have said it better though.
I guess I have a higher opinion of 25 years olds, even males, that do you or this jack-wagon. I am assuming the Honorable Dick was speaking to only the men in the room.

I also have much higher expectations of elected representatives. I expect them to at least act as if all their constituents are worthy of respect. The Honorable Dick appears to have none for any, as he thinks men by nature want to abuse women, and that that is just fine.

I do not agree he is explaining human nature; I think he is defending very nasty behavior, resulting from a very nasty attitudes about men and toward women.
  #12421  
Old 01-18-2014, 05:46 PM
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I find the comment about having a bunch of 19-year-olds under one's control creepy. Worrying triumph of id over superego, or something.

But the argument that marital rape is hard to prove is of course correct. If one is to convict someone of rape on no reliable evidence, just because they've been accused, and there is evidence of sex that may have been consensual, you have rewritten the standard of reasonable doubt. That's a bad thing.

That doesn't mean marital rape should be made legal, just that it will naturally be hard to prosecute, if we maintain reasonable standards of evidence.
  #12422  
Old 01-18-2014, 06:44 PM
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"No reliable evidence"? — Juries have always been given the power to decide whether a victim's testimony is reliable.
  #12423  
Old 01-18-2014, 06:51 PM
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But the argument that marital rape is hard to prove is of course correct. If one is to convict someone of rape on no reliable evidence, just because they've been accused, and there is evidence of sex that may have been consensual, you have rewritten the standard of reasonable doubt. That's a bad thing.

That doesn't mean marital rape should be made legal, just that it will naturally be hard to prosecute, if we maintain reasonable standards of evidence.
The more I read this, the more I don't understand it. How is anything you say here different in a marital rape case as opposed to a non-marital rape case?
  #12424  
Old 01-18-2014, 07:16 PM
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Between two married people, there's a much higher presumption that they have had consensual sex.
  #12425  
Old 01-18-2014, 07:33 PM
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Between two married people, there's a much higher presumption that they have had consensual sex.

There's no valid inference here in context.

If all you know about them is that they are married, then you have a valid presumption that at some point in their marriage, they have engaged in consensual sex.

And that is also just as true when the alleged victim is involved in a non-marital relationship, such as a dating situation or in a live-in romantic relationship. It is also true of the two people involved have had an ongoing relationship as a prostitute and a client.

However, if one if them testifies that on X occasions listed in the charges, that the sex was not consensual, then your presumption means nothing. All that matters is whether the testimony is itself credible.
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  #12426  
Old 01-19-2014, 05:43 PM
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My point is that rape, or sexual assault, is typically harder to prove than crimes that offer more evidence than the accuser's testimony.

Not impossible to prove, not uniquely hard to prove, but generally harder to prove. Thus many rapes go unprosecuted.
  #12427  
Old 01-20-2014, 06:02 PM
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One for the Stupid Gun News and this thread: Oregon GOP group defends gun raffle to honor Lincoln and MLK with inept slavery analogy

First there was the raffle itself. Because what better way to honor two men famously assassinated with guns than to raffle off a gun? I mean, we honor Christ with crosses, right?

And then there was the apology for the raffle:
Quote:
“Our rights to freedom in choosing our own medical care, our freedom to build businesses to enhance the lives of ourselves and our neighbors, our freedom to be free of debt, our freedom to be free of oppressive taxes and misguided regulations, and yes our freedom to defend our lives under the Second Amendment — all are under attack.”

“The great political issue today,” the group continued, “is whether or not the American people of all creeds and races will live free or live as slaves — slaves to their own overreaching government. 50 years ago, Martin Luther King’s great speech was an appeal for freedom for African Americans. Today, those same words he spoke 50 years ago are an appeal for freedom for all Americans.”
Well, that makes it all better.
  #12428  
Old 01-20-2014, 06:11 PM
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Freedom to be free of debt ? The fuck is he on about ? Are there some Debt Bandidos out there, tagging innocent Americans with their debt guns I should know about before I make any travel plans ?
  #12429  
Old 01-20-2014, 06:15 PM
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Also, there's an unverifiable quote making the rounds which, if accurate, is pretty stupid:
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Originally Posted by Rep. Allan Rothlisberg
Women over 50 don't need gynecological services anymore.
It seems to have come from a small committee meeting that does not do full transcripted minutes, so take it with the approprate number of salt grains.

Last edited by Gyrate; 01-20-2014 at 06:15 PM.
  #12430  
Old 01-20-2014, 06:33 PM
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Well, it is primarily because "he ain't our kind".
I didn't move here because it is a progressive community.
The place is beautiful and peaceful.
The land and the people I know are wonderful.

But, the folks who have lived here for generations are somewhat backwards.
It is something of a timewarp to drive into town and shop for groceries.
The supermarket is relatively modern, but the clientele? Less so.

It was only a decade ago that I first spotted a real live black couple shopping here.
Two of my close friends shopping with me (who happen to be black) noticed them first.
We debated whether we should say, "Hello" or just smile when we saw them.
We ended up saying "Hello" and gained a couple of new friends. They are from Indiana and apparently intend to retire here. Things have changed for the better since the 1990s but still, there is a strong residue of bigotry and racism remaining.

But, I am from the city and was raised as anti-racist as it was possible to be in Atlanta in the mid 20th century. I am a fish out of water. I am sure all the folks around here consider themselves to be good people who are just worried about somebody they don't feel comfortable with being President.

And they vote.
So, apart from race it's not really political, and they might vote for a white Democrat? A white female Democrat, even?
  #12431  
Old 01-21-2014, 12:24 AM
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Oklahoma: Congressman Lankford (R) to seek Coburn's seat. Conservative, deeply religious, disciple of Coburn - what could go wrong?

Within moments - eating their young. "“We won’t support Congressman Lankford’s bid for the Senate because of his past votes to increase the debt limit, raise taxes, and fund Obamacare,” said SCF (Senate Conservatives Fund) Executive Director Matt Hoskins in a statement released Monday.
“We have reviewed his record and it’s clear that conservatives cannot count on him to fight for their principles,” he continued."

You make a few sane votes (prevent national default, actually Obama decreased taxes using the metric of lost tax money total, do something for approximately 40,000 Okies without insurance who would benefit) and they throw you to the wolves.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/0...#ixzz2r0UAE9VE
  #12432  
Old 01-21-2014, 12:51 AM
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No mention of Sarah Palin's "inspiring" mlk day message?

http://touch.latimes.com/#story/la-m...card-20140120/

Apparently, to honor Dr. King, Obama should stop "playing the race card."
  #12433  
Old 01-21-2014, 02:53 AM
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No mention of Sarah Palin's "inspiring" mlk day message?

http://touch.latimes.com/#story/la-m...card-20140120/

Apparently, to honor Dr. King, Obama should stop "playing the race card."
I wish a didn't read that. There's so much irony in that article it burns when I pee now.
  #12434  
Old 01-21-2014, 04:20 AM
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No mention of Sarah Palin's "inspiring" mlk day message?

http://touch.latimes.com/#story/la-m...card-20140120/

Apparently, to honor Dr. King, Obama should stop "playing the race card."
Jeeeeez! What in the living crap...?!?!?! This snowbound nobody probably thought it was "MILK" day and was speaking out against chocolate milk rights. Good effing grief.
  #12435  
Old 01-21-2014, 04:22 AM
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So there's this guy called Joshua Black running for the Florida House. Like many politicians these days, Mr. Black has a Twitter account. And since 140 characters is much too short for any sort of rational discourse but plenty long enough to spout stupid shit, Mr. Black has opted to write that President Obama should not only be impeached, but arrested and hanged high.
He further added that "Execution is the appropriate punishment for traitors #BenedictArnold #criminalpoliticians" A pic of the full tweet exchange here (courtesy of SomethingAwful).

Amusing detail for those listening to our show on the radio : Mr. Black is actually black. And calling for a lynch mob. Which I think says something about racial equality in America today !
  #12436  
Old 01-21-2014, 04:33 AM
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OK, funnier still, missed it first time : he wrote that on MLK day.
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Old 01-21-2014, 01:20 PM
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If he did it while wearing a Klan hood, wouldn't that just be the capper on a trinity of stupid?
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Old 01-21-2014, 01:29 PM
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Jeeeeez! What in the living crap...?!?!?! This snowbound nobody probably thought it was "MILK" day and was speaking out against chocolate milk rights. Good effing grief.
Mohagan had the same idea.
  #12439  
Old 01-21-2014, 03:18 PM
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David Vitter is running for governor of Louisiana.

If you're not clear on why that is a "stupid Republican idea," let me refresh your memory. You're deader than Anthony Weiner, Mr. Vitter.
  #12440  
Old 01-21-2014, 03:28 PM
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Ah, but has God forgiven Weiner, as He seems to do with every Republican caught with a sticky wicket?
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:18 PM
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You mean Vitter. He was re-elected by the GOP and suffers no consequence for his actions, unlike the Democratic Mr. Weiner. While both actions were stupid, only one was illegal.
  #12442  
Old 01-21-2014, 05:23 PM
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Also, there's an unverifiable quote making the rounds which, if accurate, is pretty stupid:It seems to have come from a small committee meeting that does not do full transcripted minutes, so take it with the approprate number of salt grains.
A politician in KS? Most likely for real, alas.
  #12443  
Old 01-21-2014, 06:16 PM
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David Vitter is running for governor of Louisiana.

If you're not clear on why that is a "stupid Republican idea," let me refresh your memory. You're deader than Anthony Weiner, Mr. Vitter.
I doubt that. Look at Mark Sanford. Those Republicans are complete hypocrites.
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Old 01-21-2014, 09:26 PM
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Also, there's an unverifiable quote making the rounds which, if accurate, is pretty stupid:It seems to have come from a small committee meeting that does not do full transcripted minutes, so take it with the approprate number of salt grains.
Perhaps he meant to say "obstetric" rather than "gynecological."
  #12445  
Old 01-22-2014, 01:14 AM
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Republican Oakland County Executive L. Brooks Patterson open his mouth and stands by his statement.

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Originally Posted by Patterson
What we’re gonna do is turn Detroit into an Indian reservation, where we herd all the Indians into the city, build a fence around it, and then throw in the blankets and the corn.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/2...throw-in-corn/
  #12446  
Old 01-22-2014, 09:07 AM
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Republican Oakland County Executive L. Brooks Patterson open his mouth and stands by his statement.



http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/2...throw-in-corn/
Ah, but it is OK that he said because the New Yorker had an 'agenda'...which makes the rampant racist comment all better, right?
  #12447  
Old 01-22-2014, 10:44 AM
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It's easy to see why his comments are seen as sympathy with the rapists, given the conclusion he derives from a parallel boys-will-be-boys argument:
Yes, the spousal rape thing is absurd, and evidence that he's a loon when he talks about rape, I agree.
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Old 01-22-2014, 10:46 AM
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Are you sure? It sounds like he is.
He's simply using a literary technique where he substitutes himself or the listener (in this case, the latter) as a hypothetical person, a person with flaws.

Kind of like if I said "Wouldn't you be tempted to take a million dollars if you saw it lying on the street?" Doesn't mean he's saying it's the right thing to do.
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Old 01-22-2014, 10:48 AM
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I'd like to think human nature is better than that.
Me too, but the evidence shows otherwise. We have a big rape problem in the military (and elsewhere).
  #12450  
Old 01-22-2014, 10:52 AM
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Yes, and his idea of human nature is that every 25-year-old men—including all the people in his audience—are just waiting for a chance to have that kind of authority over young women, so that they can use that authority to rape them.
Yes.

Because that's what is actually happening.

(Not "every" 25-year-old man, of course - but he didn't say that, you did).

Quote:
He's directly implying that there's a limit to how much you can expect this problem to be solved, because that's just the way that young men—including all of you folks—are naturally.

He's simultaneously minimizing the problem and implying that we should not expect much from efforts to solve it, and also that there's a limit to how hard we should try.
I completely disagree. Simply stating the nature of the problem doesn't mean you think it can't be solved or should be tolerated.

If you said there are lots of drunk young people out on a Saturday night, so there will be lots of drunk drivers, does that mean you're saying we shouldn't try to stop drunk driving, or can't? Of course not. It's just stating the nature of the problem.

Quote:
It's disgusting.
I think a combination of political bias on your part and incomplete, badly expressed words on his part is making you conclude this. It's possible that's what he means, yes, but it's also possible that he was simply explaining the problem like I described.

Sorry to harsh the buzz in this otherwise highly entertaining thread about how crazy and stupid Republicans can be.
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