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  #51  
Old 10-11-2019, 09:27 AM
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It's just a political ploy to gain supporters. Anyone could make a stiletto out of something as simple as a metal fingernail file. If you want something sharp and pointy, you're going to have something sharp and pointy, whether they sell it as such or not.
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  #52  
Old 10-11-2019, 09:28 AM
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It's just a political ploy to gain supporters. Anyone could make a stiletto out of something as simple as a metal fingernail file. If you want something sharp and pointy, you're going to have something sharp and pointy, whether they sell it as such or not.
Shh! We don't want the criminals to find out about that.
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Old 10-11-2019, 09:40 AM
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It's absolutely absurd. Unless they also ban grinding wheels, they're just engaging in security theater, as a few minutes with a grinder and you can put a point back on a knife no problem.

And I did think of a category of uses that absolutely require knife points- cleaning/gutting/butchering fish and game. You have to stick the point in to actually start the cuts. So fishermen, hunters and anyone who buys a whole fish or bird would need a pointy knife (usually a boning knife of some kind) to do the job properly.

And five minutes with that same grinder and a largeish screwdriver makes a ghetto poniard that would be just as effective as a 8" chef's knife at injuring someone.
  #54  
Old 10-11-2019, 09:49 AM
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The gun ban does work in the UK. And it works in the UK because the vast majority of UK citizens want a gun ban and feel it's a good policy and one that they should be doing. Anyone who is saying that the current knife crisis is because of the gun ban basically doesn't fundamentally understand the attitude of the UK citizens.

The trouble is, a lot of folks, especially on this board, make the exact same mistake. They try and say that because the UK gun ban works that the US could or should do the same. Demonstrating that, fundamentally THEY don't get it either. A gun ban works (or doesn't work) based on the citizens in the country proposing it (or, in cases like China, on how strong and ruthless the government is in preventing it). A gun ban similar to what they have in the UK wouldn't work in the US because a large percentage...possibly a majority...of citizens would not feel the same way the majority of people in the UK feel about it. Probably, and I know this is going to seem wacky, but probably because, you know, there is a slight difference in attitude and outlook between the majority of American citizens and the majority of UK citizens, probably because we haven't got that one world government and we are all the same thingy down yet.
I agree that these are different countries with different issues. My main concern at the moment is debunking the blatantly false propaganda being spread by pro-gun advocates that somehow the UK gun ban hasn't made the country any safer and instead has led to gangs of knife-wielding maniacs roaming the streets of London and if only they'd let the decent god-fearing populace have guns none of this would be happening. (You may recall our own illustrious president repeating this same base canard, complete with a "stab stab stab" demonstration.) As I said, it's made a huge difference. There is still violent crime - there is even gun crime - but it's sufficiently rare that I don't worry that my child is going to be gunned down in her schoolroom.

The UK's story also debunks the wider narrative that gun bans don't ever work. Gun bans can and do work when implemented properly. Implementing one in the US would have unique problems due to the federal vs states issue, the sheer size of the country, the attitude of the citizens and of course the Second Amendment (which I am not trivializing here). But it's impossible to have a serious conversation on the subject with this sort of crap being promulgated.

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I'd say, instead of try and relate this knife ban to a US gun ban, we should just discuss the knife ban in isolation and as a subject all it's own. What are it's root causes? Lack of police? Is the lack of police systemic or is it in specific areas? Is the knife issue systemic or in specific areas? Is there a correlation? If so, then ISTM that perhaps looking into adding more police would be a better way to address the issue than banning knives. If not, then maybe look into other factors and other mitigation strategies. Maybe a knife ban is the only way, but such a thing is going to be pretty difficult. I assume this won't be an across the board ban, but there have got to be millions of knives on the list, so that's going to be tough to do and enforce. Or, maybe not...if the UK citizens are in agreement on this one, they will happily and voluntarily bring their knives in for either de-tipping or to be melted down to something less dangerous.
I think the immediate issue is police numbers - as I said, there's a direct correlation to falling police numbers and rising crime, and earlier initiatives to reduce knife crimes were working.

But the UK also tends to be proactive about other potential harms. I may have previously mentioned the example of aspirin - there was a problem years ago with people trying to commit suicide by overdosing on aspirin, which often failed but destroyed their livers which then put added strain on the liver transplant system. So they now sell aspiring in foil packs of no more than 16. No more opening the bottle and gulping them down in a rash moment; you would need to buy several boxes and pop every pill out one at a time. This isn't a problem if you just need two aspirin for a headache, but makes trying to overdose a major planned undertaking. And the number of attempted overdoses plummeted. Sometimes government intervention works.

Again, I don't know how serious this "pointy knife" thing is or whether there's any serious data behind it. Maybe nothing will come of it, or maybe they'll move pointy kitchen knives behind the sales counter or something else. But if you don't have the conversation, you never find the solution.
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Old 10-11-2019, 10:03 AM
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I don't want to hijack this into yet another gun ban, as this is about knives in the UK, not guns in the US, but one last thing:

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Originally Posted by Gyrate
The UK's story also debunks the wider narrative that gun bans don't ever work. Gun bans can and do work when implemented properly. Implementing one in the US would have unique problems due to the federal vs states issue, the sheer size of the country, the attitude of the citizens and of course the Second Amendment (which I am not trivializing here). But it's impossible to have a serious conversation on the subject with this sort of crap being promulgated.
Gun bans do clearly work. In countries where the majority of the citizens want them, or in countries with draconian totalitarian governments that can enforce them despite what the population wants. Trying to implement one in the US would run counter to either of these, however, which is why until and unless you change the majority of the public's attitude and outlook on this it would fail here. This isn't about federal verse state as much as it's about a mindset that a large percentage of the population of the US hold...which isn't the case in, say, the UK. And never was. Guns were never the same thing with the same percentage of the population in the UK, or Australia, or Japan or any other country that has successfully banned them by a voluntary population. Canada is probably the closest to the US attitude, and they haven't banned guns...they have just restricted some guns in some areas.

Anyway, don't want to hijack this and, really, I'm sure neither of us wants to do another gun debate, so I'll leave it there. A knife ban in the UK could very well work out fine...if the majority of the folks in the UK support it and feel that it's the right thing to do. If they don't, then we'll get a first hand view of how attempting to ban something when the large majority of the population doesn't want it or think it's necessary actually works out. My prediction in the case of the later is that it won't work out as the folks who want to do the ban are anticipating.
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  #56  
Old 10-11-2019, 10:18 AM
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Why do we even need sharpened knives in the kitchen? Surely you can buy pre-cut/pre-chopped vegetables and ground meat (assuming you need to eat meat at all). And if criminals try to sharpen knives themselves, the government can prohibit the sale and possession of grinding tools.

U.K knife ban advocates are missing the point when it comes to other sharp objects that can be used to commit homicidal violence. Haven't they seen "Dial 'M' For Murder" and "Obsession"?
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Old 10-11-2019, 10:24 AM
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Why do we even need sharpened knives in the kitchen? Surely you can buy pre-cut/pre-chopped vegetables and ground meat (assuming you need to eat meat at all). And if criminals try to sharpen knives themselves, the government can prohibit the sale and possession of grinding tools.

U.K knife ban advocates are missing the point when it comes to other sharp objects that can be used to commit homicidal violence. Haven't they seen "Dial 'M' For Murder" and "Obsession"?
They really aren't missing the point, you know (pun not intended). You may be, however.
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Old 10-11-2019, 11:04 AM
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I don't think anyone's missing the point.... but I think a lot of us think that the degree of safety engendered by such absurd things isn't worth the trouble or cost. I mean non-pointy knives? Packages of no more than 16 blister-packaged acetaminophen? To save how many people?

It seems to me that the amount of effort and money spent working on trivial stuff like this could be better spent elsewhere.
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Old 10-11-2019, 12:04 PM
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I don't think anyone's missing the point.... but I think a lot of us think that the degree of safety engendered by such absurd things isn't worth the trouble or cost. I mean non-pointy knives? Packages of no more than 16 blister-packaged acetaminophen? To save how many people?
For pills, a couple thousand a year deliberate overdoses, and another order of magnitude accidental overdoses. There were over 22,000 cases of children overdosing on OTC painkillers between 1996 and 1999 alone. Still seem absurd?
  #60  
Old 10-11-2019, 01:18 PM
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It's just a political ploy to gain supporters. Anyone could make a stiletto out of something as simple as a metal fingernail file. If you want something sharp and pointy, you're going to have something sharp and pointy, whether they sell it as such or not.
*nervously touches toothbrush shiv secreted in sock*
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Old 10-11-2019, 01:20 PM
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I had no idea and will remember this in the future.
Will you?

Starting threads based on disreputable right wing glurge sites is kind of your jam.

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Courtesy of Breitbart. I know, red flags go up immediately.

The first one is on Neil deGrasse Tyson.

The next on Bill Nye.

Are these just hit jobs or is there some truth to them? I got this from a very liberal friend of mine who just happens to have a PhD in EE and he seems to agree.
  #62  
Old 10-11-2019, 02:32 PM
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Will you?

Starting threads based on disreputable right wing glurge sites is kind of your jam.
Knock it off. If you want to call out other posters go play in the Pit. It's not appropriate for this forum.

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  #63  
Old 10-11-2019, 02:45 PM
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I find myself wondering, regarding the massive and shocking number of knife crimes that are taking place, how many of those are kitchen knives, and how many of them are pocket knives?

I mean, sure, nobody's going to be happy about their pocket knives being pointless (heh), but I also have a hard time seeing the upswing in teen gangbanger stabbings being carried out with knives whose blades don't fold away or come with sturdy portable sheathes. So are we really talking about kitchen knives here?
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Old 10-11-2019, 02:57 PM
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Will you?

Starting threads based on disreputable right wing glurge sites is kind of your jam.
I was upfront about the initial Breitbart post. Thought it was an interesting story. As for The Blaze selection, it was purely chance. I simply picked the first site I saw on the subject. I had no idea of its reputation. Two times I've posted from right wing sites and one was by accident. Hardly a pattern.
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Old 10-11-2019, 03:11 PM
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I find myself wondering, regarding the massive and shocking number of knife crimes that are taking place, how many of those are kitchen knives, and how many of them are pocket knives?

I mean, sure, nobody's going to be happy about their pocket knives being pointless (heh), but I also have a hard time seeing the upswing in teen gangbanger stabbings being carried out with knives whose blades don't fold away or come with sturdy portable sheathes. So are we really talking about kitchen knives here?
It's a good question, and I tried to Google it. Instead of an answer, I did find this BBC article on it. Some interesting graphs in there, plus this gem:

Quote:
Most violent attacks involve no weapons
Use of weapons in violent incidents, England and Wales, year ending March 2018

Although knife crime is on the increase, it should be seen in context. It's relatively unusual for a violent incident to involve a knife, and rarer still for someone to need hospital treatment.

Most violence is caused by people hitting, kicking, shoving or slapping someone, sometimes during a fight and often when they're drunk; the police figures on violence also include crimes of harassment and stalking.

The Crime Survey for England and Wales, which includes offences that aren't reported to police, indicates that overall levels of violence have fallen by about a quarter since 2013.
I'm wondering how they will ban hands and fists. Should be interesting. I also saw the chart on crime level, and basically while it's certainly up wrt knife crime, it's actually not at an all time peak (which was something I read or heard somewhere else, but turns out isn't true). Also, the numbers of folks actually killed is pretty small, as noted earlier. It probably seems really high, for the UK, but we are talking about less than a 1000 people a year...actually, a third that. The number of folks who die from, oh, say alcohol in the UK is a fuck ton higher...it's actually higher, per capita, than in the US. THAT seems a bigger danger than taking the points off of kitchen knives.

My WAG though is basically what you said...this is probably not actual kitchen knives being used, more like knives with sheaths or knives with folding blades, as it seems most of the knife attacks are actually criminal activity for the purpose of robbery. That's backed up by the stats in the article I linked too as well. There was, I think, a Guardian article linked to earlier (or that I read when I was doing some searching on this) that also was really good and got into some of the complexity of this and, basically, how the proposed (I guess not proposed anymore per this thread) ban won't really address much of the underlying issues of why this is happening and why it's increased. BTW, someone mentioned police above, and that's also in the linked BBC article.
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  #66  
Old 10-11-2019, 03:41 PM
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For pills, a couple thousand a year deliberate overdoses, and another order of magnitude accidental overdoses. There were over 22,000 cases of children overdosing on OTC painkillers between 1996 and 1999 alone. Still seem absurd?
Is that unique to the UK? I'm just a bit baffled as to why other countries haven't gone down the same road of restricting acetaminophen/paracetamol like the UK has.
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Old 10-11-2019, 06:55 PM
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Shh! We don't want the criminals to find out about that.
fortunately criminals are too stupid to use the blade part of the knife to cut through the carotid artery.
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Old 10-11-2019, 07:39 PM
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fortunately criminals are too stupid to use the blade part of the knife to cut through the carotid artery.
Sure, you'd say that, but you know how to make a blade out of duct tape.
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Old 10-12-2019, 02:07 AM
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Have they classified them as assault knives yet?
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Old 10-12-2019, 02:16 AM
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Is that unique to the UK? I'm just a bit baffled as to why other countries haven't gone down the same road of restricting acetaminophen/paracetamol like the UK has.
My impression (and I confess that I've been too lazy to double-check this) is that there was an EU initiative to require blister packaging for most or all pills and tablets. All my medications come like that.

My guess is that there may have been other considerations like hygiene and contamination risks if there's manual handling at the point of sale, and also the manufacturers wanting to make sure that all suppliers faced the same sort of packaging costs, with no-one tempted to cut corners.
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Old 10-12-2019, 02:27 AM
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Have they classified them as assault knives yet?
Sold at the corner drug store next to the Ronco chop-o-matic and assault pill containers.
  #72  
Old 10-12-2019, 03:19 AM
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How about it, culinary mavens, can you do without knife points in your kitchen?
No.
  #73  
Old 10-12-2019, 04:05 AM
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One more thing about paracetamol(acetaminophen): I think the suicide-prevention measure was not the blister packaging alone but to limit the number you can buy OTC at any one time. Blister packaging certainly makes it easier to have packets for only a few days' short-term pain relief at a time. If you try to stock up on a lot, the pharmacist in charge will be called in and will probably tell you to go to your GP for a proper assessment of what you need.
  #74  
Old 10-12-2019, 05:24 AM
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Sold at the corner drug store next to the Ronco chop-o-matic and assault pill containers.
What is legislated against in the UK is
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the weapon sometimes known as a “zombie knife”, “zombie killer knife” or “zombie slayer knife”, being a blade with—

(i)a cutting edge;

(ii)a serrated edge; and

(iii)images or words (whether on the blade or handle) that suggest that it is to be used for the purpose of violence.
  #75  
Old 10-12-2019, 05:26 AM
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For pills, a couple thousand a year deliberate overdoses, and another order of magnitude accidental overdoses. There were over 22,000 cases of children overdosing on OTC painkillers between 1996 and 1999 alone. Still seem absurd?
Yeah? Smoking kills about 120000 brits a year.

Not banned innit?
  #76  
Old 10-12-2019, 07:00 AM
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Yeah? Smoking kills about 120000 brits a year.

Not banned innit?
In many places, yes, and some forms of cigarette and tobacco are illegal to sell.
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Old 10-12-2019, 08:21 AM
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Grapefruit spoons will be the next implement to be banned, mark my words, saving who knows how many British eyes.
  #78  
Old 10-12-2019, 11:07 AM
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I have no views on this new "no points" initiative or how much actual traction it has. I will point out, however, that the Republican narrative about how "the UK banned guns and now everyone is getting stabbed" is deliberately and fundamentally misleading. The current issue isn't the lack of guns; it's the lack of police. And I'm going to say this again: THE GUN BAN WORKS. And the majority of British people, right and left, look at the US and say "Thank god we're not that stupid."

But if you want to call it "baby-proofing", go right ahead. You know who baby-proof things? Responsible adults. You know who cry and throw tantrums if they're not allowed to have things they want, even if they're overtly bad for them or even dangerous? Babies.
QFT. Well said, and bears repeating.

Just as a matter of clarity, though, one might note that the term "gun ban" tends to reflect the Republican/NRA narrative rather than the reality, since the UK hasn't actually banned guns, but rather has chosen to regulate them, and yes, it works. Short-barreled handguns are effectively banned for all practical purposes, but members of the public can own a wide range of rifles and shotguns subject to appropriate licensing requirements. Which kind of puts the kibosh on the idea of any kind of knife regulation being the next stage of a "slippery slope".
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Old 10-12-2019, 12:04 PM
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AIUI, there are two main differences between our approach to gun regulation and yours:

- we leave it to local police to enforce the general principles of the law (must have a good reason to have a gun, must be a fit and proper person, must keep it securely), in the light of government guidelines on the details, rather than establishing a general right and then trying to tie down the details in legislation

- it has been established public policy in the guidelines, since 1936, that self-defence isn't a valid reason to have a gun (except for specific people in Northern Ireland)

I still don't understand why, if the Second Amendment to your constution is so sacred in order to allow the people to resist tyranny, the rest of the constitution is considered so faulty as to allow a tyrannical government to take over in the first place.
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Old 10-12-2019, 12:23 PM
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Yeah? Smoking kills about 120000 brits a year.

Not banned innit?
Brilliant point. Let's ban smoking altogether. It'll save millions of lives, sure. But more importantly, it will finally put a stop to an entirely irrelevant argument in these discussions.
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Old 10-12-2019, 01:23 PM
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QFT. Well said, and bears repeating.

Just as a matter of clarity, though, one might note that the term "gun ban" tends to reflect the Republican/NRA narrative rather than the reality, since the UK hasn't actually banned guns, but rather has chosen to regulate them, and yes, it works. Short-barreled handguns are effectively banned for all practical purposes, but members of the public can own a wide range of rifles and shotguns subject to appropriate licensing requirements. Which kind of puts the kibosh on the idea of any kind of knife regulation being the next stage of a "slippery slope".
You're argument changes when the words "in self defense" are applied. The UK has effectively banned guns for this purpose.

But you knew that.
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Old 10-12-2019, 02:31 PM
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Brilliant point. Let's ban smoking altogether. It'll save millions of lives, sure. But more importantly, it will finally put a stop to an entirely irrelevant argument in these discussions.
So, banning acetaminophen wasnt irrelevant ?

However it is relevant. If you are gonna have a nanny state that really wants to save it's citizens, why not take the big step?

But they dont. It's all hypocritical political posturing.
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Old 10-12-2019, 03:47 PM
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You're argument changes when the words "in self defense" are applied. The UK has effectively banned guns for this purpose.
You can use guns for self-defense in the UK. What make's you think you can't?
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  #84  
Old 10-12-2019, 04:12 PM
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So, banning acetaminophen wasnt irrelevant ?

However it is relevant. If you are gonna have a nanny state that really wants to save it's citizens, why not take the big step?

But they dont. It's all hypocritical political posturing.
Different things created and used for different purposes are treated and regulated differently. Just another of the many things that shouldn't need saying in these discussions but unavoidably need repeating.

Question for you: When does a state become a "Nanny state"? Is it when it creates laws and regulations concerning the safety and welfare of its citizens? Or does it become a nanny state when it regulates your favorite toys?
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Old 10-12-2019, 06:09 PM
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You can use guns for self-defense in the UK. What make's you think you can't?
I think what he means, in completely hyperbolic and unjustifiable reasoning, is that it's difficult to obtain a firearm license for the sole purpose of self defense.
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Old 10-12-2019, 06:26 PM
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...

Question for you: When does a state become a "Nanny state"? Is it when it creates laws and regulations concerning the safety and welfare of its citizens? Or does it become a nanny state when it regulates your favorite toys?
If they regulate D&D books and figures, then yes, it is a nanny state.

Nanny states take away too many freedoms in exchange for a sense of security.
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Old 10-12-2019, 06:33 PM
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If they regulate D&D books and figures, then yes, it is a nanny state.

Nanny states take away too many freedoms in exchange for a sense of security.
That's an imprecise definition. I think the laws and organizations that were set up in the US after 9/11 definitely gave up freedoms for a sense of security but not a single person I remember complained about a "nanny state". Nanny state is purely used by people who think the new restrictions are silly. So a gun enthusiast like you might think a gun ban is nannying but be fine with no liquids going through airport security.

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Old 10-12-2019, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
That's an imprecise definition. I think the laws and organizations that were set up in the US after 9/11 definitely gave up freedoms for a sense of security but not a single person I remember complained about a "nanny state". Nanny state is purely used by people who think the new restrictions are silly. So a gun enthusiast like you might think a gun ban is nannying but be fine with no liquids going through airport security.
Bolding mine. Maybe we didn't call it "nanny state" but there were a great many of us who were extremely concerned about losing freedoms in the name of "security". And still are. One does not need to be a "gun enthusiast" (or "knife enthusiast" for that matter) to be concerned about laws restricting our freedom to hunt or defend our homes or cut up our steak.
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Old 10-12-2019, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
That's an imprecise definition. I think the laws and organizations that were set up in the US after 9/11 definitely gave up freedoms for a sense of security but not a single person I remember complained about a "nanny state". Nanny state is purely used by people who think the new restrictions are silly. So a gun enthusiast like you might think a gun ban is nannying but be fine with no liquids going through airport security.
Where did you get the idea I was a "gun enthusiast"?

I support most gun control laws that are within the purview of the Constitution. Some things, like "red flag" laws can be good or bad- if the ACLU sez that the law is bad as it doesnt give due process, I agree with the ACLU. Do you think the ACLU is wrong when they say a law is bad as it doesnt give proper due process?

And TSA is security theater. We should do it like Israel does.

Last edited by DrDeth; 10-12-2019 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 10-12-2019, 06:59 PM
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Old 10-13-2019, 12:49 PM
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If they regulate D&D books and figures, then yes, it is a nanny state.
Can you buy leaded figures in the US, or are they now pewter or plastic only?
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Old 10-13-2019, 03:07 PM
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Can you buy leaded figures in the US, or are they now pewter or plastic only?
Pewter & plastic but plenty of the old lead ones available on eBay, etc.


CarnalK- you didnt answer my question.
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Old 10-13-2019, 03:50 PM
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CarnalK- you didnt answer my question.
I'm not CarnaK, but as a third-party observer, the only thing you've said in the last few posts that was in the form of a question was this:
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Where did you get the idea I was a "gun enthusiast"?
If that was the question, I'm happy to answer it. I don't know if you're a "gun enthusiast" in the sense of doing a lot of shooting, but I do know that you're the most prolific poster of pro-gun talking points on this entire board, and invariably make an appearance in any and all threads that have anything to do with guns to regurgitate the same tired old talking points straight out of the NRA handbook. You even go so far as to flatly deny that the US has a far higher rate of gun violence than any other country in the world that is culturally, socially, or economically similar, a preposterous position to take which even the opponents of gun control don't pretend to believe, because it's so ridiculous. Instead, they argue that it's the price of "freedom".

Thing is, "freedom" is sometimes a zero-sum game; that is, your right to own lots of guns with minimal regulation compared to civilized countries infringes my right to live in a peaceful society without fear of getting shot, and without having to unwillingly endure the dangers of becoming a gun-totin' cowboy myself simply in order to protect myself in a country where guns are as common as candy. You like to refer to this peaceful condition as a "nanny state", but Gyrate already eloquently addressed that issue as I quoted in post #78.

To put it a different way, what you affect to call a "nanny state", most of the rest of the world calls "civilized society". This is the spirit in which the UK regulates guns and potentially other lethal arms. Gun proliferation is of course a choice that a democratic society is entitled to make, as much as most of us -- especially those of us looking in at the US from other countries -- are astonished at such a value system, but don't kid yourself that you're not paying a very high price for it in terms of a lethally violent society. It's rather ironic that some think it appropriate to point and laugh at what they regard as over-regulation in the UK, whereas the rest of the world looks at US gun violence in genuine shock and horror.
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Old 10-13-2019, 03:59 PM
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Pewter & plastic but plenty of the old lead ones available on eBay, etc.
Well, the old lead ones are available on ebay here too.

Looking into it, they aren't actually banned from sale, in the US or the UK, it's just that people stopped making them, so I withdraw my snarky comment!
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:17 PM
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I'm not CarnaK, but as a third-party observer, the only thing you've said in the last few posts that was in the form of a question was this:

If that was the question, I'm happy to answer it. I don't know if you're a "gun enthusiast" in the sense of doing a lot of shooting, but I do know that you're the most prolific poster of pro-gun talking points on this entire board, and invariably make an appearance in any and all threads that have anything to do with guns to regurgitate the same tired old talking points straight out of the NRA handbook. You even go so far as to flatly deny that the US has a far higher rate of gun violence than any other country in the world that is culturally, socially, or economically similar, a preposterous position to take which even the opponents of gun control don't pretend to believe, because it's so ridiculous. ....

To put it a different way, what you affect to call a "nanny state", most of the rest of the world calls "civilized society". This is the spirit in which the UK regulates guns and potentially other lethal arms. .....


Yes, I am , because I think all of our rights enshrined in the Bill of Rights are important. It's just that , at least on this board- the only one which is under constant attack is the 2nd. Thus, I defend it. I dont shoot or hunt nor do I have a gun collection. I have a old .22 that my dad gave me and my service pistol from when I was uniformed and armed. Since i basically cant sell or give it away in CA without taking a huge loss, I have just locked it up.

And indeed, since I support quite a bit of gun control that is legal under the 2nd ad, I dont use any NRA "talking points" since they are against ALL Gun control laws now. Ban bump stocks. More and better background checks. Good "red flag' laws that have adequate 'due process" (and here I am with the ACLU on this, asking for due process not just on this but other things like the "do not fly" list, etc- so i support all the BoR).

And I dont give a crap about that tired old propaganda point of "gun violence"- what I care about is violent crime and murder- whether committed by guns, knives or baseball bats. And the violent crime rate and murder rate here in the uSA is decreasing and is about average for all nations. Anyone who mentions "gun violence" is to me, in the same category of people who casually use "sheeple" or "Amerika"- someone whose opinions are not worthy of attention. Let's talk murder or all violent crime, sure. And yes, the USA's murder rate - altho decreasing- is too high, so yes, we could take steps to reduce it. But the "gun grabbers" dont really care about reducing the murder rate- they just wanna ban guns, the the Constitution can be ignored.

I dont cherry pick out the nations I want to compare- I compare vs all nations, not just Denmark. However, if you must compare, compare the USA's murder rate with that of any other nation in the Americas- we are lower than every other nation on these two continents except Canada. Yes, higher than Western Europe- which is what the "gun grabbers" always want to compare us to.

I didnt call the USA or GB a nanny state, but if the UK has actually banned any knife with a point- yes, that would be a "nanny state".
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Old 10-14-2019, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
I dont cherry pick out the nations I want to compare- I compare vs all nations, not just Denmark. However, if you must compare, compare the USA's murder rate with that of any other nation in the Americas- we are lower than every other nation on these two continents except Canada. Yes, higher than Western Europe- which is what the "gun grabbers" always want to compare us to.
I find it very strange that you compare the USA with all the other countries in the Americas but look to specifically disregard Canada. Why would you do that?

Quote:
if the UK has actually banned any knife with a point- yes, that would be a "nanny state
and just to confirm, that has not happened and I don't think it ever could.
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Old 10-14-2019, 10:38 AM
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When I fillet a fish I typically start with the point, when I cut into a large round fruit (watermelon) I typically start by piercing it with the tip, I'll use the tip of a paring knife to de-vein shrimp, remove the stems from strawberries, and and the seeds from peppers. While I might not always need to use the tip of my knife I use it frequently enough that I would miss it. I have plenty of kitchen knives that don't need a tip including a bread knife, cleaver, my fancy carver, and all of my table knives.
Did you know that table knives have a rounded tip because Cardinal Richelieu issued an order to that effect in Versailles because he disliked seeing people cleaning their fingernails with them at the table? As France was seen as a model of refinement and good taste then, all other European Courts followed, then the rest of us.
And yes, knife crime is much reported in British media, almost daily in the BBC 10 o'clock news. And as Gyrate has rightly pointed out, it seems to correlate neatly with a 20.000 man reduction in the police force. That is the Tory version of Law and Order under austerity, brought to you mainly by the then Home Secretary Theresa May, who held this post 2010-2016 with her trademark incompetence.
As you really need pointy knives to cook and there are already a lot of pointy knives around and it is not difficult to sharpen a point into a round knive I suggest the Brits start to spend money on adecuate policing again.
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Old 10-14-2019, 10:54 AM
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Old 10-14-2019, 11:06 AM
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I dont cherry pick out the nations I want to compare- I compare vs all nations, not just Denmark. However, if you must compare, compare the USA's murder rate with that of any other nation in the Americas- we are lower than every other nation on these two continents except Canada. Yes, higher than Western Europe- which is what the "gun grabbers" always want to compare us to.
It would seem admirable and desirable to compare ourselves to those who are better than us in some specific aspect and ask, "What can we learn? How can we improve?", than to compare ourselves to those worse (or about the same) as us, and celebrate our complacent mediocrity. Worse still, to quote an ideal we've never quite lived up to (i.e. Bill of Rights) and claim exceptionalism as an excuse not to pursue change.
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Old 10-14-2019, 12:19 PM
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I find it very strange that you compare the USA with all the other countries in the Americas but look to specifically disregard Canada. Why would you do that?



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I didnt, I specifically mentioned Canada.
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