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  #101  
Old 10-20-2019, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Lance Turbo View Post
You know you can look this shit up, right?

Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey
Reread “same work”.
  #102  
Old 10-20-2019, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by WillFarnaby View Post
Reread “same work”.
Here you go...

Median weekly earnings of full-time wage and salary workers by detailed occupation and sex
  #103  
Old 10-20-2019, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Lance Turbo View Post
You know you can look this shit up, right?

Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey
Yep, and here is another report:

https://www.epi.org/publication/what...nd-is-it-real/
Quote:
Is the wage gap the same whether you are a front-line worker or a high-level executive? There is much greater parity at the lower end of the wage distribution, likely because minimum wages and other labor market policies create a wage floor. At the 10th percentile, women are paid 92 cents on the male dollar, whereas women at the 95th percentile are paid 74 cents relative to the dollar of their male counterparts’ hourly wages.
To take context into account, some democrats claimed back then that the difference was 77 to 79 cents.

Quote:
The difference in earnings between men and women is also sometimes described in terms of how much less women make than men. To calculate this gap from the ratio as defined above, simply subtract the ratio from 1. So, if the gender pay ratio is about 80 percent (or 80 cents on the dollar), this means that women are paid 20 percent less (or 20 cents less per dollar) than men. A larger difference between men’s and women’s earnings translates into a lower ratio but a larger gap in their earnings.
What I do remember on previous discussions is that there was an exaggeration in the past when Democratic politicians claimed that the big gap for all women vs men was applicable when both men and women were doing the same job, the difference there is significantly less at lower paying jobs that are paid hourly, but it is more misleading OTOH to imply that there is or was no difference there. And the difference between men and woman is still higher when there are jobs dominated traditionally by men.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 10-20-2019 at 04:54 PM.
  #104  
Old 10-20-2019, 04:58 PM
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If there was a conspiracy here is the one that has the right wing media telling their readers or viewers that there is/was no salary gap and that the liberals are trying to fool them.
  #105  
Old 10-20-2019, 05:52 PM
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Funny, WillF:

"I can't believe the libs believe in this nonsense conspiracy stuff!"
...
"Okay, there was actually a conspiracy, but that was just that one time!"

(my paraphrase)

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 10-20-2019 at 05:52 PM.
  #106  
Old 10-21-2019, 09:50 AM
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Right wingers do tend to indulge in a higher quantity of conspiracy theories. A lot of their interest seems to be for the pure enjoyment. CTs are a fun pastime.

With leftists, when they buy a conspiracy theory, they take it to the grave. They will base entire political movements around CTs. They will devote university resources to encouraging them. They will erect entire academic fields of study to them. It is really something to watch. Right wingers will blog about CTs. Left wingers organize political parties around them.

Same amount of work is implied by “same work”. Men work much more hours/week than women. If you would like to try again, I suggest you start another thread or resurrect a related one. The moderators sometimes frown on hijacks like this.
  #107  
Old 10-21-2019, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by WillFarnaby View Post
Same amount of work is implied by “same work”. Men work much more hours/week than women.
Like how the U.S. men's national soccer team works so many more hours in order to achieve worse results, but gets paid more because THERE'S NO CONSPIRACY AGAINST WOEMN!
  #108  
Old 10-21-2019, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Funny, WillF:

"I can't believe the libs believe in this nonsense conspiracy stuff!"
...
"Okay, there was actually a conspiracy, but that was just that one time!"

(my paraphrase)
Perhaps you misunderstand my take on CTs. There are plenty of actual successful conspiracies. A CT is one that takes a fact in need of explanation, similar to the facts Mr. Turbo has posted, and then spins a web of undocumented global intrigue.

Yes if you cannot tell the difference between the feasibility of a local conspiracy among landed quasi-feudal aristocracy in the 19th century and a supposed conspiracy in the highly integrated global capitalistic marketplace, I cannot help you. You will find that completely contradictory beliefs can exist alongside one another in a CT believer’s head. For example, “Capitalists will stop at nothing to milk every drop of profit from labor.” And “Capitalists put aside profit to engage in a plot to disenfranchise women.”
  #109  
Old 10-21-2019, 10:04 AM
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Like how the U.S. men's national soccer team works so many more hours in order to achieve worse results, but gets paid more because THERE'S NO CONSPIRACY AGAINST WOEMN!
If you think exercising and practicing soccer 50 hours/week and generating $200000 in ad revenue is equal to exercising and practicing soccer 50 hours/week and generating $20000 in ad revenue, perhaps you also believe that it is a conspiracy that full time sandcastle builders are not paid the same as full-time skyscraper builders.
  #110  
Old 10-21-2019, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by WillFarnaby View Post
If you think exercising and practicing soccer 50 hours/week and generating $200000 in ad revenue is equal to exercising and practicing soccer 50 hours/week and generating $20000 in ad revenue, perhaps you also believe that it is a conspiracy that full time sandcastle builders are not paid the same as full-time skyscraper builders.
The U.S. women's team brings in more revenue than the men's team. The women are the skyscraper builders, to use this misogynistic analogy.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/19/us-w...than-mens.html
  #111  
Old 10-21-2019, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by dontbesojumpy View Post
Probably already posted (I'm new to this thread), but in 2016 NPR tracked down a fake news creator. He admits:
In his case, he's simply profiting off of an easy hook: the right bites and it works, so he just does it.
I read the article and Coler brags about duping people into believing" how customers in Colorado marijuana shops were using food stamps to buy pot."

The problem is that there have been dozens of legitimate news stories about the misuse of food stamp benefits. Why would anyone not believe the story?

Beyond that, this guy targets conservatives with web addresses like washingtonpost.co.co. This is a form of fraud. Perhaps, conservatives aren't so credulous about conspiracy theories, but liberals feel the moral authority to target them?

"Ohio Strip Club Loses License After Accepting Food Stamps for Lap Dances, Hard Drugs"
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/e...ces-hard-drugs
  #112  
Old 10-21-2019, 10:41 AM
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Of all the things you listed, the only one that has any kind of association at all with the left is anti-vaxers, and I'd say it's more ideologically neutral as both sides have anti-vax nuts, just for different reasons. The left tends to be suspicious of corporations and of drug and product safety
Oddly enough, antivaxers who use this excuse (and they're from various points on the political spectrum) don't reject insulin, antibiotics and other vital medications because Big Pharma Has Done Bad Things.

Last edited by Jackmannii; 10-21-2019 at 10:42 AM.
  #113  
Old 10-21-2019, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
The U.S. women's team brings in more revenue than the men's team. The women are the skyscraper builders, to use this misogynistic analogy.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/19/us-w...than-mens.html
Based on what he said, it is a fun pastime for WillFarnaby
  #114  
Old 10-21-2019, 10:55 AM
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I just saw this story. I guess Fake News is at least tangentially related to CTs.
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  #115  
Old 10-21-2019, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
The U.S. women's team brings in more revenue than the men's team. The women are the skyscraper builders, to use this misogynistic analogy.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/19/us-w...than-mens.html
Yeah I guess the fact that entrepreneurs make errors is grounds for global conspiracy now.
  #116  
Old 10-21-2019, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by WillFarnaby View Post
Yeah I guess the fact that entrepreneurs make errors is grounds for global conspiracy now.
Too many "errors"...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...omen/38565069/
Quote:
The majority of the jobs with the largest gender pay gaps are male dominated. Across all occupations, women account for 44.4 percent of the workforce. In 12 of the 20 jobs with the largest pay gaps, women make up a smaller share. In 14 jobs on this list men are the majority.

Occupations with even distributions of men and women, or even in which women comprise the majority, are by no means immune to relatively large gender pay gaps. Further, increasing female representation in the workplace does not translate to more equitable pay. In four of the jobs with the greatest income inequality, over 60 percent of the workforce is female. For example, 69.4 percent of human resource managers are female. Still, the typical woman working in the occupation earns just 73 cents for every dollar her male counterpart earns.
And it is not really a conspiracy, there is a lot of it in the open and social pressures are there too. So, again it is framed as a conspiracy mostly by right wing sources that tell their people that it is a "conspiracy from the left" and that everything is fine, do not bother to make changes... /s

Last edited by GIGObuster; 10-21-2019 at 12:10 PM.
  #117  
Old 10-21-2019, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by WillFarnaby View Post
Basically the entire edifice of leftist rhetoric rests on the conspiracy theory that thousands upon thousands of employers collude to stifle labor wages. For example many plainly believe that women are paid something like 70% of what a man makes for the same work.

If it was true that labor wages are lower than they would be under market conditions, then a savvy employer could swoop in and make a killing by hiring all women and offering them 80% of the men’s wage.

The only way such a misalignment could exist would be a grand conspiracy. When you talk to nearly any leftist for two minutes you will find that they believe in some form of this conspiracy theory.
You make a good case that leftists (just like anyone else) are willing to uncritically accept factoids that support their pre-existing worldview. But that's very different from a conspiracy theory. Whatever one might say about the left's naive fixation on "women only make 74 cents for every dollar that men make", and I agree that it's a "fact" that people on the left have tended to bandy about uncritically, it's hardly a conspiracy theory. There aren't websites where people are discussing how that fact is really true, but the powers that be are trying to suppress it. I've never seen a debate about the topic that was like:
A: Women are paid 74 cents for every dollar that men are paid
B: Actually, the situations a lot more complex than that, here are some cites
A: Your cites come from research studies funded by (name of shadowy powerful organization here) and therefore can't be trusted


It seems like you're trying to make an argument something like:
-If capitalism was working perfectly, nothing would ever be unfair
-Leftists claim that something is unfair
-The only way that it could be unfair, if capitalism was working perfectly, would be a massive conspiracy
-Haha, gotcha ya, leftists are conspiracy theorists! Just like pizzagate and truthers!

Which is stupid for two reasons. (1) It's entirely possible for things to be unfair under capitalism for any number of reasons. I dare you to travel back to the 1950s, find an ambitious woman who is vastly overqualified for every job she's offered, and tell her she's just imagining it and actually isn't qualified, because of course if she WAS qualified someone would hire her, or someone else would start a new company that would hire her, because capitalism. And (2) as discussed above, believing something that is false doesn't make one a conspiracy theorist, even if the most logical way that false thing could be true would be a conspiracy, if one doesn't actually believe in the conspiracy.
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  #118  
Old 10-21-2019, 01:21 PM
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I think there may be a definition problem in some of these posts. An idea that involves a conspiracy, no matter how obviously ludicrous it seems, is not what most people mean by a "conspiracy theory." The term refers only to theories about conspiracies that resist all evidence that they are wrong, and even become stronger because of contrary evidence. A conspiracy theorist is someone who engages in such thing, usually in multiple ways.

For example, it isn't the fact that antivaxxers believe that vaccines cause autism that makes them conspiracy theorists. It is that they have rejected all the evidence that shows that their belief is false.

Point is, citing something that sounds ridiculous or just any theory that involves a conspiracy is not evidence that those who proposed it are conspiracy theorists. You need to show that they clung to this belief despite the lack of evidence, and started claiming that the people proving it wrong were all just part of the conspiracy.
And "President Y is going to cancel the election" has probably been a thing since 1801, so saying that counts as an actual conspiracy theory is pushing the definition beyond what it is trying to convey.
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