Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-07-2020, 03:21 PM
Sicks Ate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: KS, US
Posts: 6,900

What am I getting in to, refurbishing an old tiller?


A couple years ago I salvaged an old tiller with a 'free' sign on it from someone's driveway. I didn't need a tiller at the time necessarily, but I thought it might be fun to mess with at some point in the future. It didn't start/run when I got it, but I thought it might be fun to tear it down and clean it out to see if I could get it to start. I've never done anything like that, so figured it would be a neat experience!

Well now, I need a tiller and a project. And I built 2 more workbenches, so I finally have space to lay everything out.

It's a Gilson Model 51095 Compact Tiller with a B+S 60102 engine. Built c. 1976 best I can tell.

It's not really a matter of 'is it worth it' from a money standpoint, nor really time. If I need one for my dirt work later this spring I can rent one for a day if I can't get this one up and running.

So what am I getting myself in to? Apart from not running (ha!) it looks like it's in really nice shape. I thought I might get lucky and get it running by just cleaning the carb, flushing the fuel system and changing the oil. But I'm also no averse to the idea of going all the way down and replacing gaskets etc. if necessary.
  #2  
Old 02-07-2020, 03:30 PM
Tired and Cranky is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,774
Does it turn pretty freely when you pull the starter cord? Does it sound like it might want to start at least?

I'd add checking the spark plug to your list. Good luck!
  #3  
Old 02-07-2020, 03:39 PM
Sicks Ate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: KS, US
Posts: 6,900
It does turn freely, and now that you mention it I remembered that I did try a new plug.

Also there is a lot of g oily residue around the gas full cap. Make me wonder if someone tried to use fuel/oil mix in it and finally killed it.
  #4  
Old 02-07-2020, 03:48 PM
Tired and Cranky is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,774
It's a two-stroke, right? Almost all small engines are. It should use a mix of gasoline and oil, 32:1, so four ounces of oil in a gallon of gas. I would assume that the oil around the gas cap is from that.
  #5  
Old 02-07-2020, 03:49 PM
Arrendajo is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Emerald City South
Posts: 2,376
Sounds like a fun project to me. If you can't get it running with new plug, oil, and fuel system flush (and new fresh fuel), check to see if it's making a spark. It's probably a very simple engine. Even if someone put a fuel/oil mix in, thinking it was a 2-stroke, you should be able to clean it out. I did it once with an old lawn mower. The carb might be completely gunked up and need a rebuild.
  #6  
Old 02-07-2020, 03:50 PM
wolfman is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,201
Damn that brings memories. I used one that looked like that for many summers as a kid/teenager. Trying to keep the damn thing under control(they jump up and forward constantly if you haven't used one) gave me delts before people talked about have delts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sicks Ate View Post
Also there is a lot of g oily residue around the gas full cap. Make me wonder if someone tried to use fuel/oil mix in it and finally killed it.
I wouldn't worry too much, I think they all have that. Spilled gas(leaded most likely) evaporates, but leaves behind a bit of stuff that builds up into a tar over time.
  #7  
Old 02-07-2020, 03:53 PM
Arrendajo is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Emerald City South
Posts: 2,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired and Cranky View Post
It's a two-stroke, right? Almost all small engines are. It should use a mix of gasoline and oil, 32:1, so four ounces of oil in a gallon of gas. I would assume that the oil around the gas cap is from that.
No, it's almost certainly a 4-stroke engine.
  #8  
Old 02-07-2020, 04:02 PM
Tired and Cranky is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,774
It's not a two stroke! [As Arrendajo noted]. I found the manual, which says "DO NOT MIX OIL WITH GASOLINE."
https://www.briggsandstratton.com/co...A-domestic.pdf

So, someone careless like me may have screwed that up, as you surmise.

The good news is that if you clean it out and get it refueled, it might start. Failing to use pre-mixed fuel in a two-stroke is worse. The engine usually seizes pretty quickly and it's hopeless. Te bad news is that your engine was designed to run with leaded gas. I don't know what years of running unleaded gas might have done to the valves.

Last edited by Tired and Cranky; 02-07-2020 at 04:03 PM.
  #9  
Old 02-07-2020, 04:07 PM
Sicks Ate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: KS, US
Posts: 6,900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired and Cranky View Post
It's not a two stroke! [As Arrendajo noted]. I found the manual, which says "DO NOT MIX OIL WITH GASOLINE."
https://www.briggsandstratton.com/co...A-domestic.pdf

So, someone careless like me may have screwed that up, as you surmise.

The good news is that if you clean it out and get it refueled, it might start. Failing to use pre-mixed fuel in a two-stroke is worse. The engine usually seizes pretty quickly and it's hopeless. Te bad news is that your engine was designed to run with leaded gas. I don't know what years of running unleaded gas might have done to the valves.
Nice find! Saves me the work of finding a manual I think I'm going to end up learning a lot about small engines with this project!
  #10  
Old 02-07-2020, 04:12 PM
ftg's Avatar
ftg is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Not the PNW :-(
Posts: 21,663
The Achilles heel of small engines is the carburetor. They can get clogged up or otherwise damaged and fixing them is a pain and seemingly random. Replacing the carb is often the simplest thing to do. Given it's B&S the replacement should be easy to find.

Other things can go wrong, esp. on a tiller. I have an old tiller that seems to work just fine until the tines hit the dirt. Then they stop. The transmission piece is damaged. Costs more than it's worth to get a replacement. Sealed in and not really repairable. Just hoping some time to come across a cheap match some day.
  #11  
Old 02-07-2020, 04:21 PM
Sicks Ate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: KS, US
Posts: 6,900
Haha amateur tip of the day:

If reach down to steady the thing when you pull the cord....don't put your hand on the spark plug.

On the bright side, I know that it makes a spark.

But it didn't show the least bit of interest in starting. No doubt everything's gunked up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ftg View Post
The Achilles heel of small engines is the carburetor. They can get clogged up or otherwise damaged and fixing them is a pain and seemingly random. Replacing the carb is often the simplest thing to do. Given it's B&S the replacement should be easy to find.

Other things can go wrong, esp. on a tiller. I have an old tiller that seems to work just fine until the tines hit the dirt. Then they stop. The transmission piece is damaged. Costs more than it's worth to get a replacement. Sealed in and not really repairable. Just hoping some time to come across a cheap match some day.
Yeaaaaahhhh, looks like the parts for this engine are pretty pricey. Carb on E-bay doing a quick search was ~$50. Gaskets and seals seem to be equally pricey.

If I can't get it running with a good clean, I'll have to abandon the project. Reminds me too much of rebuilding an old bike and throwing good money after...well, questionable money.
  #12  
Old 02-07-2020, 04:30 PM
wolfman is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,201
You can open the carb and spritz a bit of starting fluid in, may let you know a bit more where you stand.
  #13  
Old 02-07-2020, 04:38 PM
TroutMan's Avatar
TroutMan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,249
I was expecting this to be about a sailboat tiller, which seemed like an odd thing to refurbish. But I see the thread title steered me wrong.
  #14  
Old 02-07-2020, 04:59 PM
48Willys is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Western Colorado
Posts: 904
First it is a four stroke engine. Running two stroke fuel/oil mix will foul the spark plug eventually. That is all the "harm" it will do. I have been known to use my chainsaw fuel/oil mix in my four stroke lawnmower when I run out of mower gas.

For inexperienced folks like yourself, I recommend buying a service manual for the engine at least. It will have instructions on these kinds of procedures. I still use one after 50 years working on these engines.

To get it to start, we need three things; compression, fuel/air mix, (in the right ratio), & spark, (at the right time).

If it spins very freely when the rope is pulled, you do not have compression. If the rope pulls with obvious pulses of resistance, it will have enough compression to start. If no compression, a deeper dive is needed. Stop & fix this. It could be the valves, +/or a hole in the piston.

If the compression is good, & if the spark plug is new, we need to check for spark. Get a fire extinguisher & keep it handy. Remove the big wire from the spark plug & using an insulated pair of pliers, hold the wire 1/4" away from the engine. Set the throttle to idle, really any setting that is not the stop setting will work. While a friend pulls the rope quickly, watch for a spark between the wire & the engine block. The spark should be bright blue. If it is not, you will need to file the points. That is very doable but I will not go into that at this time.

If you have spark, pull the air cleaner off of the carburetor & shoot a small, 2-3 second squirt of starting fluid down the carburetor, leave the air cleaner off for now. Next pull the rope with the throttle set at or above idle. If it starts, or tries to start, the carburetor is most likely dirty & will need cleaned. However, first check for a full tank of good fuel. These engines start easier with a full tank.

Before you pull the carburetor apart, remove the tank & the carburetor as a unit from the engine block. Be sure to watch how the linkage for the carburetor is hooked to the governor so you can reinstall it correctly. This makes it easy to drain the fuel from the tank. Empty the tank & flush it out with known good gas. Reinstall the assembly, fill the tank, & try starting it again If it does not start, try the starting fluid again. If it still runs, or at least pops on starting fluid, but not without it, You get to disassemble & clean the carburetor. Buy a carburetor kit for your carburetor. It will have all the parts you need for this. It will probably have a few extra parts, as the kit is for several different carburetors. No worries, one can always use a few extra parts.

Let us know how this goes please.

IHTH, 48.
  #15  
Old 02-07-2020, 05:07 PM
Sicks Ate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: KS, US
Posts: 6,900
Quote:
Originally Posted by 48Willys View Post
First it is a four stroke engine. Running two stroke fuel/oil mix will foul the spark plug eventually. That is all the "harm" it will do. I have been known to use my chainsaw fuel/oil mix in my four stroke lawnmower when I run out of mower gas.

For inexperienced folks like yourself, I recommend buying a service manual for the engine at least. It will have instructions on these kinds of procedures. I still use one after 50 years working on these engines.

To get it to start, we need three things; compression, fuel/air mix, (in the right ratio), & spark, (at the right time).

If it spins very freely when the rope is pulled, you do not have compression. If the rope pulls with obvious pulses of resistance, it will have enough compression to start. If no compression, a deeper dive is needed. Stop & fix this. It could be the valves, +/or a hole in the piston.

If the compression is good, & if the spark plug is new, we need to check for spark. Get a fire extinguisher & keep it handy. Remove the big wire from the spark plug & using an insulated pair of pliers, hold the wire 1/4" away from the engine. Set the throttle to idle, really any setting that is not the stop setting will work. While a friend pulls the rope quickly, watch for a spark between the wire & the engine block. The spark should be bright blue. If it is not, you will need to file the points. That is very doable but I will not go into that at this time.

If you have spark, pull the air cleaner off of the carburetor & shoot a small, 2-3 second squirt of starting fluid down the carburetor, leave the air cleaner off for now. Next pull the rope with the throttle set at or above idle. If it starts, or tries to start, the carburetor is most likely dirty & will need cleaned. However, first check for a full tank of good fuel. These engines start easier with a full tank.

Before you pull the carburetor apart, remove the tank & the carburetor as a unit from the engine block. Be sure to watch how the linkage for the carburetor is hooked to the governor so you can reinstall it correctly. This makes it easy to drain the fuel from the tank. Empty the tank & flush it out with known good gas. Reinstall the assembly, fill the tank, & try starting it again If it does not start, try the starting fluid again. If it still runs, or at least pops on starting fluid, but not without it, You get to disassemble & clean the carburetor. Buy a carburetor kit for your carburetor. It will have all the parts you need for this. It will probably have a few extra parts, as the kit is for several different carburetors. No worries, one can always use a few extra parts.

Let us know how this goes please.

IHTH, 48.
Thank you! That is good info. And I will definitely be updating as it goes.

I really should finish the crown molding and paint touch-up in the kitchen, as well as install the exhaust hood before I start on this.... but I might sneak some experiments in, in the meantime.
  #16  
Old 02-07-2020, 05:16 PM
Sicks Ate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: KS, US
Posts: 6,900
I've seen a lot of videos of engines mounted on boards.... Should removing the engine from the tiller chassis and doing something similar be my first step?
  #17  
Old 02-07-2020, 06:49 PM
aceplace57 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: CentralArkansas
Posts: 26,797
Look at mustie1 YouTube channel. He has dozens of vids fixing mowers, snowblowers, tillers etc. He's also has a lot of classic VW repair videos. He's a good mechanic.

Searching for mustie1 tiller
I see six videos

Last edited by aceplace57; 02-07-2020 at 06:51 PM.
  #18  
Old 02-07-2020, 07:32 PM
Arrendajo is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Emerald City South
Posts: 2,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutMan View Post
I was expecting this to be about a sailboat tiller, which seemed like an odd thing to refurbish. But I see the thread title steered me wrong.
LOL I thought the same thing.
  #19  
Old 02-07-2020, 07:36 PM
Arrendajo is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Emerald City South
Posts: 2,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sicks Ate View Post
Thank you! That is good info. And I will definitely be updating as it goes.

I really should finish the crown molding and paint touch-up in the kitchen, as well as install the exhaust hood before I start on this.... but I might sneak some experiments in, in the meantime.
I would much rather work on a small engine.
  #20  
Old 02-07-2020, 08:18 PM
Sicks Ate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: KS, US
Posts: 6,900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrendajo View Post
I would much rather work on a small engine.
Like all the other stuff too; who knows, after this I may rather work on a small engine as well!
  #21  
Old 02-08-2020, 08:39 AM
Jackmannii's Avatar
Jackmannii is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: the extreme center
Posts: 33,027
Recently I tried to "refurbish" an elderly Mantis tiller that had been sitting unused in my garage for the past 15 years. Replaced the spark plug and rotted plastic bulb gas feed, checked the lines to make sure they weren't clogged...and still couldn't get the thing to start.

It wound up out on the curb, where someone claimed it, thinking they could eventually get it working.

And maybe they will. I'm going to move on to another model to till up ground at the new place. Maybe a rechargeable electric. Any suggestions/experiences are welcomed.
  #22  
Old 02-08-2020, 09:30 AM
Sicks Ate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: KS, US
Posts: 6,900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackmannii View Post
Recently I tried to "refurbish" an elderly Mantis tiller that had been sitting unused in my garage for the past 15 years. Replaced the spark plug and rotted plastic bulb gas feed, checked the lines to make sure they weren't clogged...and still couldn't get the thing to start.

It wound up out on the curb, where someone claimed it, thinking they could eventually get it working.

And maybe they will. I'm going to move on to another model to till up ground at the new place. Maybe a rechargeable electric. Any suggestions/experiences are welcomed.
I got a free non-running Mantis cultivator a couple years ago too! Replaced the carb, primer bulb and fuel lines and got it in working order.
  #23  
Old 02-08-2020, 04:08 PM
Sicks Ate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: KS, US
Posts: 6,900
Ok, quick update and also a question.

Un-mounted the engine from the tiller and bolted it to a couple 2x4, and clamped it to my workbench for ease of access.

It DID run for a couple seconds on starting fluid, so that's a good sign! I'm probably flush out the fuel system, then take it apart as far as I feel like, cleaning as I go.

The question is, in the seconds it was running, I had my hand on the block but not on the spark plug, and got shocked. What's going on there?
  #24  
Old 02-09-2020, 12:38 AM
Gatopescado is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: on your last raw nerve
Posts: 23,510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sicks Ate View Post
It DID run for a couple seconds on starting fluid, so that's a good sign! I'm probably flush out the fuel system, then take it apart as far as I feel like, cleaning as I go.

The question is, in the seconds it was running, I had my hand on the block but not on the spark plug, and got shocked. What's going on there?
If it fires, I'd put fresh gas in and let it run! It'll clean itself as it runs. As for the shocking, are you sure it was an electric shock and not just a 'knock'? You'll know if you get a high-voltage shot from a spark plug. I had to rip a wire off a motorcycle once and it turned my fingernail beds black for a while.

Made for a damn funny story, though!
  #25  
Old 02-09-2020, 12:50 AM
Beckdawrek's Avatar
Beckdawrek is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Boonies??
Posts: 22,243
Black fingernails? You're so Goth Gato!
  #26  
Old 02-09-2020, 01:18 AM
Gatopescado is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: on your last raw nerve
Posts: 23,510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckdawrek View Post
Black fingernails? You're so Goth Gato!
Gothopescado. I don't like it.
  #27  
Old 02-09-2020, 01:21 AM
Sicks Ate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: KS, US
Posts: 6,900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatopescado View Post
If it fires, I'd put fresh gas in and let it run! It'll clean itself as it runs. As for the shocking, are you sure it was an electric shock and not just a 'knock'? You'll know if you get a high-voltage shot from a spark plug. I had to rip a wire off a motorcycle once and it turned my fingernail beds black for a while.

Made for a damn funny story, though!
Well I'm not sure? Certainly felt like a shock, though.

The stuff I drained out of the fuel tank looked like straight oil. Plug was coated with the same, took the head off and it was oily as hell and crusted with burnt gunk. Piston and everything else inside was fithy.

Removed the carb got everything cleaned up with carb cleaner, plastic scraper and steel wool. Re-assembling tomorrow and I'll try to fire her up again. Lots of possible adjustments, I guess; there's not really a throttle...seems like the governor is the important factor. And a screw that I deduce adjusts the mix? Trial and error time!
  #28  
Old 02-09-2020, 08:39 AM
kayaker's Avatar
kayaker is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Rural Western PA
Posts: 34,248
Fifteenish year so ago when I moved in with my gf, I found an ancient rototiller in her shed. I decided to see if it would run with minimal effort. I emptied and refilled the gas tank then gave it a shot of spray starter. It started right up and ran, but I'd failed to notice that the oil fill cap was missing (I eventually found it).

And so I was sprayed with thousands of droplets of motor oil to my face and chest. It looked like a Three Stooges gag.
  #29  
Old 02-09-2020, 12:39 PM
jnglmassiv is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Chicago's Northside
Posts: 3,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutMan View Post
I was expecting this to be about a sailboat tiller, which seemed like an odd thing to refurbish. But I see the thread title steered me wrong.
And I thought it was going to be about an old, ornate brass cash register. You know, a till.

https://www.pbs.org/video/antiques-r...denver-hour-1/
  #30  
Old 02-09-2020, 03:04 PM
Sicks Ate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: KS, US
Posts: 6,900
It lives! Pretty smooth too.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eIj...w?usp=drivesdk
  #31  
Old 02-10-2020, 03:42 PM
Sicks Ate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: KS, US
Posts: 6,900
Think I messed up and didn't make the link public. Should be fixed!
  #32  
Old 02-10-2020, 03:58 PM
Arrendajo is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Emerald City South
Posts: 2,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sicks Ate View Post
Think I messed up and didn't make the link public. Should be fixed!
Nice! This has been my favorite thread for the last week.
  #33  
Old 02-10-2020, 04:07 PM
Sicks Ate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: KS, US
Posts: 6,900
Cool

I may or may not have taken it all back apart yesterday and started to re-paint it.

But the range hood is ALMOST installed, so it's ok.
  #34  
Old 02-10-2020, 04:20 PM
Sicks Ate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: KS, US
Posts: 6,900
Here's a few more pictures in case anyone is interested: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1fX...6m50HTKiRZUrqe
  #35  
Old 02-10-2020, 04:25 PM
Sicks Ate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: KS, US
Posts: 6,900
Ugh, such an idjit....here is the link to the entire folder. Probably. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Oa...AkCySmob88TF73
  #36  
Old 02-12-2020, 04:59 AM
48Willys is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Western Colorado
Posts: 904
Good job!

Just be careful, refurbishing small gasoline powered equipment can be habit forming. AMHIK! Just leave those lawn mowers & tillers on the curb. Don't be dragging them home willy-nilly!
  #37  
Old 02-24-2020, 12:45 AM
Sicks Ate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: KS, US
Posts: 6,900
So here I am, and here it is...couldn't sleep so came out to the garage to start putting it back together. Last coat of paint wasn't quite dry, so I left fingerprints https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mS5...w?usp=drivesdk all over; may or may not touch them up.

Still need to get a new muffler and find somewhere that carries the right air filter. I'll definitely post again once it's up and idling.

Last edited by Sicks Ate; 02-24-2020 at 12:47 AM.
  #38  
Old 02-25-2020, 12:22 AM
48Willys is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Western Colorado
Posts: 904
My local Ace Hardware carries both of these items. The larger of the two local True Value hardware stores also carry them.
  #39  
Old 02-28-2020, 05:39 PM
Sicks Ate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: KS, US
Posts: 6,900
Done! That was so much fun.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nIB...w?usp=drivesdk
  #40  
Old 02-28-2020, 07:42 PM
enipla is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Colorado Rockies.
Posts: 15,113
WELL DONE. I love projects like this.

I had a weird one. '78 Yamaha 650cc 4 stroke. Vertical twin. Bought it for nostalgic reasons, my brother had one.

It did not run. Lots of boxes of 'parts'.

Had Spark, Fuel, and Compression. It would not give me so much as a pop. I scratched my head about this for weeks. Re-checked everything a dozen times.

This engine actually had valve covers that could be removed. So... I did that and watched the valves open and close and the points open and close as I slowly rotated the engine.

Turns out that the previous owner (or someone) had rebuilt the engine. But re-built it 180 degrees off. Spark at the top of the exhaust stroke.

The chain that ran the valves/cam, was put on when the crank was 180 degrees off. The left spark plug was firing when the right plug should fire. Plenty of thread lock and gasket sealer also confirmed the engine had been rebuilt.

Sooo. I switched the plug wire from the right coil to the left plug, and left to the right, and it fired right up.

Ran very badly though. Rideable but no fun. I suspect 180 degree off timing rebuild and just switching the coils right/left was not enough. My guess is that the timing advance was totally messed up. Well, it was backwards.

I did do a little dance when I FINALLY puzzled this out. It drove me nuts for months.

I gave it to a friend that has a garage and the wherewithal to totally rebuild it right.

That engine was a good lesson for me. Trust your knowledge, to a point. Think outside of the box. I'm a programmer by trade, and often, the solution is found when you walk away for a day or two.

"Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want"
__________________
I don't live in the middle of nowhere, but I can see it from here.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:09 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017