Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1251  
Old 04-16-2019, 09:57 PM
Bryan Ekers's Avatar
Bryan Ekers is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 59,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
(Who knows, though? Maybe Dolly Parton made a comeback centuries after her death.)
Given the amount of plastic surgery she's had, she may elude death entirely.


Yeesh, that was one preachy-speechy episode; at least when Picard started moralizing, his delivery was better.
__________________
Don't worry about the end of Inception. We have top men working on it right now. Top. Men.
  #1252  
Old 04-16-2019, 11:55 PM
Horatius is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 1,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
But the divorce is not a choice on the part of the person getting killed!

Some people go into marriage with a clear-eyed or even cynical attitude that it may well end up in divorce. But most people think that’s not in the cards for them. That’s for “other people”. People who aren’t as decent, or at least not as deeply in love.

I’m reminded of a scene on “The Sopranos”:

SPOILER:
Adriana shows up in public with a black eye, clearly given to her by her boyfriend Christopher, Tony’s nephew and a capo in the crime family. Tony upbraids him, but not on a general principle of opposition to domestic violence. He tells Christopher if he’s going to beat her, he’s got to “put a ring on her finger first”. That’s the custom among this clan of Italian-Americans. She does still become his fiancee. Do we just shrug and say that she knew what she was getting into when she accepted his proposal? If there were a country where this custom was legally tolerated (either de jure or de facto), would it not be an issue for human rights organizations to raise?

"Human rights". Why the very term is racist!

There's lots of choices we make in life that stick us with potential consequences if we want to change our minds later. In human marriage, in lots of jurisdictions, it's accepted that you'll have to give half your stuff to your ex-spouse if you get divorced. Would you accept "I didn't choose to give them all that!" as a reason to not fulfill the legal requirements of divorce?

Their version is just more extreme than ours, which is pretty much true of their entire culture.
  #1253  
Old 04-17-2019, 08:49 AM
Bryan Ekers's Avatar
Bryan Ekers is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 59,350
Is this how jurisdictions work in the future; no matter how far you get from your home planet, its laws still apply to you? If a human is in interstellar space, is he or she still bound by Earth laws? Can members of the Earth military detain or arrest that person at will? Does Moclan jurisdiction extend to literally everywhere there are Moclans?
__________________
Don't worry about the end of Inception. We have top men working on it right now. Top. Men.

Last edited by Bryan Ekers; 04-17-2019 at 08:51 AM.
  #1254  
Old 04-17-2019, 09:47 AM
Elendil's Heir is offline
SDSAB
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: my Herkimer Battle Jitney
Posts: 86,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by carnivorousplant View Post
Heheh. Thanks! I added a few.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
...In human marriage, in lots of jurisdictions, it's accepted that you'll have to give half your stuff to your ex-spouse if you get divorced. Would you accept "I didn't choose to give them all that!" as a reason to not fulfill the legal requirements of divorce?....
"Next time I'm just gonna find a woman I hate and give her half of everything I own." - Merle Haggard (attrib.), after a divorce

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers View Post
Is this how jurisdictions work in the future; no matter how far you get from your home planet, its laws still apply to you? If a human is in interstellar space, is he or she still bound by Earth laws? Can members of the Earth military detain or arrest that person at will? Does Moclan jurisdiction extend to literally everywhere there are Moclans?
I don't think we know yet, or that the scriptwriters have thought it through. Certainly the Moclan government appears to believe that all Moclans everywhere are subject to its authority. I doubt that the Earth government could do that legally, or would be that overreaching.
  #1255  
Old 04-17-2019, 10:12 AM
Andy L is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 6,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers View Post
Is this how jurisdictions work in the future; no matter how far you get from your home planet, its laws still apply to you? If a human is in interstellar space, is he or she still bound by Earth laws? Can members of the Earth military detain or arrest that person at will? Does Moclan jurisdiction extend to literally everywhere there are Moclans?
I could see that being the way a Confederation might decide to run things, at least at first.

I claim credit for predicting that Moclan females are a lot more common than the Moclans are willing to acknowledge https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...&postcount=543
  #1256  
Old 04-17-2019, 10:57 AM
Bryan Ekers's Avatar
Bryan Ekers is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 59,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy L View Post
I claim credit for predicting that Moclan females are a lot more common than the Moclans are willing to acknowledge https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...&postcount=543
Post 543, really? Check out post 477.
__________________
Don't worry about the end of Inception. We have top men working on it right now. Top. Men.
  #1257  
Old 04-17-2019, 12:01 PM
aldiboronti is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Troynovant
Posts: 8,187
I'm starting to get a little tired of the male/female schtick. A little less messaging would be nice. How about some really alien aliens, not ones that are designed simply to push some human agenda.
  #1258  
Old 04-17-2019, 01:24 PM
bump is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 18,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by aldiboronti View Post
I'm starting to get a little tired of the male/female schtick. A little less messaging would be nice. How about some really alien aliens, not ones that are designed simply to push some human agenda.
Well, a big part of sci/fi and fantasy is to basically hold up a mirror to ourselves by taking whatever it is out of the ordinary situation and using the sci-fi/fantasy situation to provide that mirror.

The Orville has been doing a lot of that, and so did ST:TNG. I'm with you in that I just like a heavy dose of good old space opera without the other stuff though.
  #1259  
Old 04-17-2019, 01:57 PM
Dendarii Dame is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 15,138
When the Moclan ambassador threatened to ally with the Krill, I wondered how the Krill would view this situation. They are a theocracy, and wouldn't it be interesting if they supported the sanctuary? They might even consider "corrective" surgery to be a sin, since the female Moclans were born that way.

I'm wondering how Klyden and Bortus got together in the first place. An arranged marriage, perhaps? (Not all Moclans do this, but maybe some do.)

I was surprised that Topa didn't learn he was born female. I think that shoe will drop in an upcoming episode, though.
  #1260  
Old 04-17-2019, 03:05 PM
Just Asking Questions is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dendarii Dame View Post
I'm wondering how Klyden and Bortus got together in the first place. An arranged marriage, perhaps?
I applaud Bortus, for sticking with Klyden despite their problems. It's easy these days to just punt and move on.

But after that last episode, I was rooting for him to "divorce" Klyden. Do they have anything in common at all?
  #1261  
Old 04-17-2019, 03:45 PM
carnivorousplant is offline
KB not found. Press any key
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 59,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions View Post
Do they have anything in common at all?
Nicotine.
  #1262  
Old 04-17-2019, 03:58 PM
Bryan Ekers's Avatar
Bryan Ekers is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 59,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by aldiboronti View Post
I'm starting to get a little tired of the male/female schtick. A little less messaging would be nice. How about some really alien aliens, not ones that are designed simply to push some human agenda.
Heck, I'd like to see them aggressively subverting sci-fi tropes like the ostensibly oppressed culture doesn't want to be rescued or the artificial intelligence doesn't want to exterminate life forms.

Heck, one possible solution for this latest episode's problem occurred to me - just have the Orville claim the planet as an Earth colony and send down a small group of officers to plant a flag and establish a garrison. Then the planet could be under Earth laws rather than Moclan laws and the Moclan females would be protected.

I was mildly curious while the rifle-toting females who aimed at the Orville landing party seemed disarmed and helpless when the Moclan males invaded, but I can fanwank that the males used some kind of EMP or remote shutdown command to deactivate the females' weapons.

Playing Nine to Five during a firefight seemed particularly tone-inappropriate. It did not seem like the weapons were set to kill, but was it supposed to be comedic or something?
__________________
Don't worry about the end of Inception. We have top men working on it right now. Top. Men.
  #1263  
Old 04-17-2019, 04:09 PM
simster is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 11,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers View Post

Playing Nine to Five during a firefight seemed particularly tone-inappropriate. It did not seem like the weapons were set to kill, but was it supposed to be comedic or something?
I have to assume you have not seen Deadpool 2?

And on further thought - in context - its appropriate "working hard to make a living" - what the female moclans have to do to survive every day.

Quote:
Workin' 9 to 5, what a way to make a livin'
Barely gettin' by, it's all takin' and no givin'
They just use your mind and they never give you credit
It's enough to drive you crazy if you let it
9 to 5, for service and devotion
You would think that I would deserve a fat promotion
Want to move ahead but the boss won't seem to let me
I swear sometimes that man is out to get me!

Last edited by simster; 04-17-2019 at 04:11 PM.
  #1264  
Old 04-17-2019, 04:11 PM
Andy L is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 6,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers View Post
Post 543, really? Check out post 477.
I bow to your more prescient prescience https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...&postcount=477
  #1265  
Old 04-17-2019, 04:12 PM
Bryan Ekers's Avatar
Bryan Ekers is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 59,350
Well, if that man is out to get you with energy weapons, fair enough.
__________________
Don't worry about the end of Inception. We have top men working on it right now. Top. Men.
  #1266  
Old 04-17-2019, 05:15 PM
Just Asking Questions is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,479
Back to the show in general.

I like the character of Bortus. He's interesting and in some ways more complex than many of the others. Better realized. Much better than Isaac, who I see they have marginalized since the "we are going to kill you all" little incident. Better than either Xelayan. Waif-fu is just not that interesting, and their society isn't well thought out.

Sure, he's parallel-Worf, but, Worf was a good character, too.

Interesting, too, how Season 2 lost almost all of the McFarland bathroom humor. I'm not sure I miss it, but it was a pretty distinctive feature of Season 1. Has there been anything comparable in the funny in the last several episodes?

Last edited by Just Asking Questions; 04-17-2019 at 05:15 PM.
  #1267  
Old 04-17-2019, 05:29 PM
SenorBeef is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 28,293
The nicotine storyline was one of the funniest things the score has done. Lots of humor in the Isaac/Claire romance episode. The humor feels more organic and fits better.

I think it's inaccurate and kind of snobby to call MacFarlane's style of humor "toilet humor" - if there's anything he's overly reliant on it's pop culture humor.
  #1268  
Old 04-17-2019, 05:31 PM
Just Asking Questions is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,479
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
I think it's inaccurate and kind of snobby to call MacFarlane's style of humor "toilet humor" - if there's anything he's overly reliant on it's pop culture humor.
Tell that to the giant hallucinogenic spirit journey sheep dong peeing on his character in A Million Ways to Die In The West.
  #1269  
Old 04-17-2019, 06:26 PM
Ellis Dee is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New England
Posts: 14,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions View Post
Interesting, too, how Season 2 lost almost all of the McFarland bathroom humor. I'm not sure I miss it, but it was a pretty distinctive feature of Season 1. Has there been anything comparable in the funny in the last several episodes?
There was the pee corner, and also delaying the delegation with both a urine sample and implied cavity search.
  #1270  
Old 04-17-2019, 06:40 PM
SenorBeef is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 28,293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions View Post
Tell that to the giant hallucinogenic spirit journey sheep dong peeing on his character in A Million Ways to Die In The West.
Oh I'm not saying he doesn't do toilet humor, just that he's not limited to that. He does plenty of types. But I see a lot of people on the internet that seem to pigeonhole MacFarlane into being a low brow guy. Hrs very versatile.
  #1271  
Old 04-17-2019, 11:20 PM
DSYoungEsq is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Indian Land, S Carolina
Posts: 14,413
It was a good episode in many ways. The firefight to "Nine to Five" was stupid. I don't care if it's a riff on Deadpool, or on anything else for that matter; stupid is stupid.
  #1272  
Old 04-18-2019, 01:43 AM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 12,745
Jonathan Frakes said on the official fan podcast that Seth pushed hard to use "9 to 5" in that fight scene, and predicted that it would either work or really not work. MMV as to which it was (I was fine with it).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Dee View Post
There was the pee corner, and also delaying the delegation with both a urine sample and implied cavity search.

Yeah. The pee corner, I thought was decent comedy, right in the sweet spot of where the humor works in this show. The delegation thing was really one of the worst moments we've seen in the entire run of the show thus far, IMO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers View Post
I was mildly curious while the rifle-toting females who aimed at the Orville landing party seemed disarmed and helpless when the Moclan males invaded, but I can fanwank that the males used some kind of EMP or remote shutdown command to deactivate the females' weapons.

This was the thing that bothered me most about the episode, but the EMP theory doesn't seem to fit with the fact that they did start firing their own rifles after Kelly and Bortus joined the fight. They should have shown them fighting but pinned down, with a surprise flanking maneuver from Kelly and Bortus throwing them off and turning the tide.
__________________
SlackerInc on Twitter: http://twitter.com/slackerinc

Last edited by SlackerInc; 04-18-2019 at 01:43 AM.
  #1273  
Old 04-18-2019, 05:30 AM
Bryan Ekers's Avatar
Bryan Ekers is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 59,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
This was the thing that bothered me most about the episode, but the EMP theory doesn't seem to fit with the fact that they did start firing their own rifles after Kelly and Bortus joined the fight. They should have shown them fighting but pinned down, with a surprise flanking maneuver from Kelly and Bortus throwing them off and turning the tide.
I'd have to rewatch it, but I thought the females were picking up rifles dropped by soldiers who'd been stunned by Kelly or Bortus.

Of course, what bugged me more was that Kelly and Bortus stood perfectly still out in the open without cover or concealment like total idiots, but none of the soldiers could hit them.
__________________
Don't worry about the end of Inception. We have top men working on it right now. Top. Men.
  #1274  
Old 04-18-2019, 05:39 AM
Bryan Ekers's Avatar
Bryan Ekers is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 59,350
I suppose the firefight soundtrack could have been worse. It might've been:

Better keep your hands off my
Better keep your hands off my
Better keep your hands off my potential new boyfriend
__________________
Don't worry about the end of Inception. We have top men working on it right now. Top. Men.
  #1275  
Old 04-18-2019, 09:24 AM
Biffster's Avatar
Biffster is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers View Post
I suppose the firefight soundtrack could have been worse. It might've been:



Better keep your hands off my

Better keep your hands off my

Better keep your hands off my potential new boyfriend


Or the theme from the Benny Hill Show.

https://youtu.be/AYVa6tqfF6Y
  #1276  
Old 04-18-2019, 07:55 PM
Folacin is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North of the River
Posts: 3,692
Finally watched this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickJay View Post
This thing is that the kid telling on his father turned out to be essentially an irrelevance. The ship they subsequently took vanished from its stated flight plan. That right there could have been the moment of crisis; there was no narrative purpose for Bortus's stupidity and dishonesty. The fact they had a baby wasn't even something they had to hide; they could have simply claimed it was male, and no one would have known. Then the ship makes a run for it and the story proceeds as planned.
Until Topa finked on Bortus, there was no reason for anyone to check the flight plan of the research vessel. It would have dropped off the kid, and then continued to it's final destination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers View Post
I'd have to rewatch it, but I thought the females were picking up rifles dropped by soldiers who'd been stunned by Kelly or Bortus.
Most of them were, but at one point a group came out of a house, armed and shooting.

My personal issue is that for some reason, it appears that all of the Union admirals are human. Although I guess maybe the various alien ones just didn't attend the Congress session.

Last edited by Folacin; 04-18-2019 at 07:55 PM.
  #1277  
Old 04-18-2019, 08:27 PM
eschereal's Avatar
eschereal is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Frogstar World B
Posts: 16,582
Admiral Perry and Admiral Halsey? Where the hell did they come up with those names???
  #1278  
Old 04-18-2019, 08:49 PM
Biffster's Avatar
Biffster is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschereal View Post
Admiral Perry and Admiral Halsey? Where the hell did they come up with those names???

We’re so sorry, Uncle Albert.
  #1279  
Old 04-19-2019, 12:52 AM
asterion is offline
Just Some Guy
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 11,779
So, better or worse than two Rikers?
  #1280  
Old 04-19-2019, 01:05 AM
Mijin's Avatar
Mijin is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 9,119
It was an OK episode but I am "OK" about the whole series now.
They just aren't very good at making a consistent logic. And possibly worse is they don't follow through on the consequences of their actions:

So...a whole bunch of Moclan soldiers were killed? And zero colonists?
And the Moclans are cool about both that and the two ships engaging in combat?
If it was a stun fight that should have been made clearer.
I can't enjoy a battle if at the end it's just "Good guys won, so...don't worry about any consequences" and zero explanation or cleanup happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
Yeah. The pee corner, I thought was decent comedy, right in the sweet spot of where the humor works in this show. The delegation thing was really one of the worst moments we've seen in the entire run of the show thus far, IMO.
Agreed, best and the worst of the show's humor right there.

The pee corner made me laugh but also was a somewhat plausible thing to happen, while at the same time not being a thing they could ever do on trek.

The cavity search meanwhile did not make any sense within the logic of the show; it would have destroyed the peace process just to give Mercer a few pointless minutes of thumb-twiddling time, and wasn't funny.

Last edited by Mijin; 04-19-2019 at 01:06 AM.
  #1281  
Old 04-19-2019, 01:43 AM
Just Asking Questions is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,479
Quote:
Originally Posted by asterion View Post
So, better or worse than two Rikers?
Better.

And worse.

Thomas Riker eventually became a traitor to the Federation, but Second Chances was a better episode than Tomorrow cubed. Still, it was nice to see an episode that I had no idea where it was going.

What's with the Kaylon cruising around looking for a fight? that came out of no where. It doesn't seem like the Kaylon would retreat and then go into a skulking "bush war" with the union. Their "superior intelligence" means they'd reason they should attack, or not, and stick to one decision. Poking the enemy doesn't seem like a good decision.*

So, what does that ending mean? Did she keep her memories, or just a "feeling" that it wouldn't work? Does that mean there are two timelines? Or are they building something big for the finale that will bring it all together? Will we see Young Kelly again?


*Or do I just not have a superior enough intelligence to see the long game?

Last edited by Just Asking Questions; 04-19-2019 at 01:44 AM.
  #1282  
Old 04-19-2019, 09:06 AM
StarvingButStrong's Avatar
StarvingButStrong is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,803
It did bother me that they didn't see and do something about the obvious difficulties of having two members of a crew with exactly the same name. Doesn't Kelly have a middle name or nickname or anything they could have used?

Last edited by StarvingButStrong; 04-19-2019 at 09:06 AM.
  #1283  
Old 04-19-2019, 09:28 AM
CarnalK's Avatar
CarnalK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 18,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions View Post
What's with the Kaylon cruising around looking for a fight? that came out of no where. It doesn't seem like the Kaylon would retreat and then go into a skulking "bush war" with the union. Their "superior intelligence" means they'd reason they should attack, or not, and stick to one decision. Poking the enemy doesn't seem like a good decision.*
I don't know what they were up to but you can't be saying that a skulking bush war is never an intelligent decision. Or poking the enemy. Sometimes those are perfectly legit strategies. But, maybe they just want to make sure to keep the Union out of certain sectors. Maybe they want to capture some ships for some reason. Maybe something else.
Quote:
So, what does that ending mean? Did she keep her memories, or just a "feeling" that it wouldn't work? Does that mean there are two timelines? Or are they building something big for the finale that will bring it all together? Will we see Young Kelly again?
I am also curious. Are we going to see a disruption in the timeline next episode or was there split?
  #1284  
Old 04-19-2019, 09:48 AM
RealityChuck's Avatar
RealityChuck is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Schenectady, NY, USA
Posts: 42,922
Last night's show was just OK until the final scene.

If it's a different timeline, then OK, we move on.

If it's the same timeline, though, everything changes. Ed is not made commander, and Malloy is unlikely to be on the ship at all.

Logically, the next episode should have Kelly as the commander and Ed as her second-in-command. And at the end, Ed leaves the series, either by getting a promotion to commander or by dying. I could imagine Macfarlane wanting to cut back.
__________________
"If a person saying he was something was all there was to it, this country'd be full of rich men and good-looking women. Too bad it isn't that easy.... In short, when someone else says you're a writer, that's when you're a writer... not before."
Purveyor of fine science fiction since 1982.
  #1285  
Old 04-19-2019, 09:55 AM
Bryan Ekers's Avatar
Bryan Ekers is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 59,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mijin View Post
And the Moclans are cool about both that and the two ships engaging in combat?
I was thinking about it and it seems analogous to a British navy vessel finding an uncharted island full of ex-patriot Americans who have fled the U.S. because they didn't want to undergo mandatory gay-conversion therapy (this is a slight alternate-universe U.S. where such things exist). The Brits feel compelled to announce the island's existence for some reason and a U.S. Navy ship soon arrives to forcibly repatriate all the exiles. The Brits think this isn't cricket, but the Americans maintain that gay-conversion is an important part of their moral code and if NATO won't respect their moral codes, then why even have a NATO, so they threaten to pull out, and this is all happening at a time when the Soviets have recently attacked and it is expected they may do so again in the near future. The U.S. Navy sends a bunch of marines ashore to grab the exiles, and the Brits intervene and soon the two ships are blasting away at each other.

And then abruptly everyone calms down and we're back to business as usual. Global crisis averted.
__________________
Don't worry about the end of Inception. We have top men working on it right now. Top. Men.
  #1286  
Old 04-19-2019, 10:09 AM
eschereal's Avatar
eschereal is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Frogstar World B
Posts: 16,582
More homage to Star Trek with the MacBeth episode title.
  #1287  
Old 04-19-2019, 10:24 AM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 12,745
I think this is now my favorite episode of the series. DISCO had a shockingly good season finale too. What a night of TV!
__________________
SlackerInc on Twitter: http://twitter.com/slackerinc
  #1288  
Old 04-19-2019, 10:38 AM
Just Asking Questions is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers View Post
And then abruptly everyone calms down and we're back to business as usual. Global crisis averted.
It's reminded me of the made-for-TV movie Assault on the Wayne, where Soviet agents infiltrate an attack sub in order to steam ABM technology. The Soviets were going to sink the sub to cover their tracks. But, the crisis averted, then one of the crew notes to the captain, "You know, that was an act of war." And the Captain says, "Yes, and outside of a few closed rooms, no one will ever know."
  #1289  
Old 04-19-2019, 10:59 AM
Biffster's Avatar
Biffster is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealityChuck View Post
Last night's show was just OK until the final scene.

If it's a different timeline, then OK, we move on.

If it's the same timeline, though, everything changes. Ed is not made commander, and Malloy is unlikely to be on the ship at all.

Logically, the next episode should have Kelly as the commander and Ed as her second-in-command. And at the end, Ed leaves the series, either by getting a promotion to commander or by dying. I could imagine Macfarlane wanting to cut back.


Not necessarily. Seems to me the whole point about the talk about quantum physics alludes to the theory that all possibilities can happen in parallel universes. In the other universe, Kelly and Ed do not get together, but in the universe we’re in, they do. Just showing that things could have gone very differently in a different universe. There is not only one timeline.
  #1290  
Old 04-19-2019, 11:12 AM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 12,745
Splitting off universes is the only form of time travel that makes any kind of intuitive sense to me, but it can still be fun when they do it the other way if it's well handled. I'm okay if this is dropped forever, and also if it becomes a big plot point for next episode.
__________________
SlackerInc on Twitter: http://twitter.com/slackerinc
  #1291  
Old 04-19-2019, 12:14 PM
Mijin's Avatar
Mijin is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 9,119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers View Post
I was thinking about it and it seems analogous to a British navy vessel finding an uncharted island full of ex-patriot Americans
[...]
And then abruptly everyone calms down and we're back to business as usual. Global crisis averted.
Yeah, in fairness, of my grumbles that one is probably answerable.
There's plenty of precedent in real history of (fatal) skirmishes being basically ignored because neither side wants to escalate right now. One side will usually throw up a stink but not always.
  #1292  
Old 04-19-2019, 01:07 PM
Bryan Ekers's Avatar
Bryan Ekers is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 59,350
The Moclans seemed downright eager to escalate things, declaring their intent to leave the Union. This wasn't just a couple of lower-echelon commanders getting into a fistfight and then higher-ups deciding to stop an escalating pattern of retaliation - to Moclans, the mere existence of Moclan females is so very fundamentally abhorrent that they're willing to go all brinkman over it immediately.
__________________
Don't worry about the end of Inception. We have top men working on it right now. Top. Men.
  #1293  
Old 04-19-2019, 03:15 PM
ivylass is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Orlando(ish)
Posts: 22,168
Can I just say how tickled I was to see Bortus and Klyden tearing it up at the dance club?

The description of next week's episode seems to indicate there is going to be fallout from Past Kelly's (god, what an awful wig) decision not to pursue a relationship with Ed.

Now, if Present Kelly thinks having a romantic relationship with her captain is a bad idea, why in the ever living hell would Ed pursue a relationship with a lieutenant??
  #1294  
Old 04-19-2019, 04:47 PM
Horatius is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 1,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mijin View Post
So...a whole bunch of Moclan soldiers were killed? And zero colonists?
And the Moclans are cool about both that and the two ships engaging in combat?


But again, that's kind of in keeping with what we've seen of Moclan culture. They seem pretty okay with violence, even fatal violence. After all, they're a hyper masculine culture, so hyper masculine that they even deny the existence of female Moclans. They were introduced as the weapon manufacturers of the Union, and we see them conducting live weapon tests in the open, with little regard for the possibility of collateral damage to bystanders (Remember, "We said no torpedoes!"?) Their divorce involves literal murder of one member of the couple.

So, yeah, I can see them thinking losing a few soldiers as no big thing. They might even see it as a good thing, figuring that with those soldiers losing to a bunch of females, they obviously were not worthy of being Moclans.
  #1295  
Old 04-19-2019, 06:40 PM
DSYoungEsq is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Indian Land, S Carolina
Posts: 14,413
I thought that "Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow" was a pretty good episode. It's not full of drama, of course, so it feels very much like a ST:TNG episode from about season three, where everything they did was exploration of personalities. But there are some very interesting points made in the course of the episode, and it's clear that there is no one "correct" way to view what happened to Kelly and Ed, not to mention how Young Kelly and Ed would have worked out compared to Older Kelly and Ed. In a way, it was sad that they decided to send Kelly back, because, of course, a lot of things that could have been fun about having the two around got lost.

The last scene, of course, is excellent. It is clearly a cliff-hanger in its feel, because not only don't we know why she said that, we don't know what the ramifications will be. After all, Young Kelly said she knew the thing would work out because it obviously had in the "past", which was why no one knew about it having happened back then. But now, it hasn't happened the same way, which throws all those assumptions in the meat grinder.

I continue to be impressed with the episodes this season. It's a very watchable show, and has managed that much more quickly than most of the Star Trek children did.
  #1296  
Old 04-21-2019, 03:25 AM
magnusblitz is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,333
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivylass View Post
Can I just say how tickled I was to see Bortus and Klyden tearing it up at the dance club?
Yeah, that was great. I also just liked seeing them have fun with each other for once; they've often seemed like the most dysfunctional couple on TV recently.

I wonder if the twist ending with Young Kelly will go anywhere (maybe as soon as next episode?) or not be touched on. They certainly left it open-ended enough with a lot of possibilities.
  #1297  
Old 04-21-2019, 06:34 AM
Helena330's Avatar
Helena330 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Near Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 3,855
I liked Ed's reference to fans arguing about time travel. Loosely, "I'd rather eat glass than argue time travel logic!"

Did anyone notice the Journey ESC4P3 album cover on the office wall? Pretty cool! I think it was Kelly's office. It was quite obvious over Ed's left shoulder when he and Kelly were leaning against the desk talking to younger Kelly. I agree they needed a different name for her.

I wasn't crazy about this episode, it was predictable for me, but it's Trek, er, Orville, so I still enjoyed it. The end was interesting and I look forward to next week.

Last edited by Helena330; 04-21-2019 at 06:34 AM.
  #1298  
Old 04-21-2019, 09:01 PM
TBG is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarvingButStrong View Post
It did bother me that they didn't see and do something about the obvious difficulties of having two members of a crew with exactly the same name. Doesn't Kelly have a middle name or nickname or anything they could have used?
Commander Grayson and Lt. Grayson, easy enough, unless Lt. get promoted too far (or Commander gets demoted)
  #1299  
Old 04-21-2019, 10:19 PM
Andy L is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 6,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivylass View Post

Now, if Present Kelly thinks having a romantic relationship with her captain is a bad idea, why in the ever living hell would Ed pursue a relationship with a lieutenant??
Present Kelly thinks it's a bad idea for the captain and XO to have a relationship. Lt. Kelly has no official position on the ship - she's essentially a passenger, not in the chain of command. Now if she were actually assigned to the ship, that would be a problem - but that didn't happen yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSYoungEsq View Post
I thought that "Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow" was a pretty good episode. It's not full of drama, of course, so it feels very much like a ST:TNG episode from about season three, where everything they did was exploration of personalities. But there are some very interesting points made in the course of the episode, and it's clear that there is no one "correct" way to view what happened to Kelly and Ed, not to mention how Young Kelly and Ed would have worked out compared to Older Kelly and Ed. In a way, it was sad that they decided to send Kelly back, because, of course, a lot of things that could have been fun about having the two around got lost.

The last scene, of course, is excellent. It is clearly a cliff-hanger in its feel, because not only don't we know why she said that, we don't know what the ramifications will be. After all, Young Kelly said she knew the thing would work out because it obviously had in the "past", which was why no one knew about it having happened back then. But now, it hasn't happened the same way, which throws all those assumptions in the meat grinder.

I continue to be impressed with the episodes this season. It's a very watchable show, and has managed that much more quickly than most of the Star Trek children did.
Agreed. I was struck by how this episode showed how Ed had grown since the first season. His explanation of why he and Kelly got divorced would have been very different in the early part of the first season.
  #1300  
Old 04-22-2019, 08:16 AM
DummyGladHands is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,155
Not enough Bortus
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:49 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017