Straight Dope Message Board

[BiblioCat]

Originally Posted by bup

Oh yeah. Wizard of Oz is just a series of embarrassments for me.

I was probably 13 before I realized the farmhands were the same actors as the traveling companions in Oz.

When I watched WoO as a child, my mother told me that the farmhands were the same guys as the Scarecrow, the Tinman and the Lion, but I didn't believe her till I was about 13 or so. I just didn't see it. Of course, this was back in the Dark Ages, when it was only on once a year, so it's not like I could have stopped the VCR or DVD to make sure. 51

[njtt]

Originally Posted by E-Sabbath

Actually, there _is_ a connotation in 'Brown Eyed'. Brown Eyed Girl, Brown Eyed Handsome Man?

They're black.

That might be a connotation in the American south, but hardly in '50s or '60s Belfast. 52

[Cliffy]

I hesitate to mention this, because last time we did one of these it came close to derailing the thread. But Kris in Miracle on 34th Street? Just a nice old man with whiskers. He's the beneficiary of a dozen people making more or less self-interested decisions (Macy and Gimbel wanting to look good for their customers; Fred hating his old job and wanting something outrageous to build his resume; Doris needing to prove to Fred that she wasn't a wrinkled up prune; the judge and political boss counting votes, and the post office getting rid of all those dead letters).

It's easier to see in the full-length version, as the broadcast one cuts a few important bits to fit in an extra commercial -- most importantly, the scene where Macy and Gimbel are fighting over who gets to buy Kris the X-Ray machine so they can look good in front of the press.

--Cliffy 53

[PlainJain]

Miller's Crossing. I had seen this movie about 5 or 6 times and was blown away when a friend told me The Dane was gay. 54

[Don Draper]

Originally Posted by BiblioCat

When I watched WoO as a child, my mother told me that the farmhands were the same guys as the Scarecrow, the Tinman and the Lion, but I didn't believe her till I was about 13 or so. I just didn't see it. Of course, this was back in the Dark Ages, when it was only on once a year, so it's not like I could have stopped the VCR or DVD to make sure.

Preposterous! They can't be the same people. Anybody with eyes can see that the Scarecrow, Tin Man & Cowardly Lion are in full technicolor, while the mere farmhands are in black & white!




Anyway, one little detail that I'd never noticed before about 'Oz' (until about the umpteen-millionth time I saw it) was the scene in which Dorothy & crew are entering the black woods on their way to kill the Wicked Witch. The Scarecrow is carrying a large mallet, and the Tin Man has a revolver(!) b ut missing his axe. Both weapons mysteriously vanish before the flying monkeys attack. (I couldn't find an appropriate clip on youtube - but if you have the DVD, you can check it out for yourself.)

Also, there is the legendary (and false) UL about the munchkin who hanged himself. (Long story short: It was actually a large bird.) I had seen the 'incriminating' shadow before, and knew the story. But it wasn't until I read Snopes' article debunking the myth that I ever noticed the birds wandering around in the background. And they're all over that set! 55

[RealityChuck]

Originally Posted by Cliffy

I hesitate to mention this, because last time we did one of these it came close to derailing the thread. But Kris in Miracle on 34th Street? Just a nice old man with whiskers. He's the beneficiary of a dozen people making more or less self-interested decisions (Macy and Gimbel wanting to look good for their customers; Fred hating his old job and wanting something outrageous to build his resume; Doris needing to prove to Fred that she wasn't a wrinkled up prune; the judge and political boss counting votes, and the post office getting rid of all those dead letters).

You're correct, but the final scene makes it clear that he's more than just a nice old man with whiskers. And, for whatever reason, he made all the self-interested decisions happen. You could argue for open-endedness, but the film makes clear that his he's more than just a nice old man. 56

[bup]

Originally Posted by Tengu

He didn't want them dead, or captured - he was a humbug, not an asshole - he just wanted them to fail (or better yet, give up) and get out of his hair.

He sent them to get the broomstick of the wicked witch! He at least knew he was giving them a mission that was be suicidal if they undertook it, and for no reason. 57

[Strassia]

Originally Posted by The New and Improved Superman

Preposterous! They can't be the same people. Anybody with eyes can see that the Scarecrow, Tin Man & Cowardly Lion are in full technicolor, while the mere farmhands are in black & white!




Anyway, one little detail that I'd never noticed before about 'Oz' (until about the umpteen-millionth time I saw it) was the scene in which Dorothy & crew are entering the black woods on their way to kill the Wicked Witch. The Scarecrow is carrying a large mallet, and the Tin Man has a revolver(!) b ut missing his axe. Both weapons mysteriously vanish before the flying monkeys attack. (I couldn't find an appropriate clip on youtube - but if you have the DVD, you can check it out for yourself.)

Also, there is the legendary (and false) UL about the munchkin who hanged himself. (Long story short: It was actually a large bird.) I had seen the 'incriminating' shadow before, and knew the story. But it wasn't until I read Snopes' article debunking the myth that I ever noticed the birds wandering around in the background. And they're all over that set!

There is a deleted scene where they lose them in the haunted forest. 58

[muldoonthief]

Originally Posted by bup

He sent them to get the broomstick of the wicked witch! He at least knew he was giving them a mission that was be suicidal if they undertook it, and for no reason.

Hell, the entire movie from the arrival in Munchkin Land on is just Glinda's convoluted plan to become the only power left in Oz. She could have sent Dorothy home immediately - her excuse of "You had to learn how much you missed home before you could return" is BS. Dorothy was trying to go back to Auntie Em when she got caught by the tornado. Glinda just saw Dorothy as a stooge she could use to expose the Wizard as a fraud, and kill the WWotW, then send her home. You can't tell me Glinda didn't know that the Wizard was just a humbug, or that the WWotW couldn't actually kill Dorothy. By the end of the movie, Glinda was ready to rule Oz with an iron fist. Sure, "only bad witches are ugly", but they can be beautiful too. 59

[Freudian Slit]

Originally Posted by muldoonthief

Hell, the entire movie from the arrival in Munchkin Land on is just Glinda's convoluted plan to become the only power left in Oz. She could have sent Dorothy home immediately - her excuse of "You had to learn how much you missed home before you could return" is BS. Dorothy was trying to go back to Auntie Em when she got caught by the tornado. Glinda just saw Dorothy as a stooge she could use to expose the Wizard as a fraud, and kill the WWotW, then send her home. You can't tell me Glinda didn't know that the Wizard was just a humbug, or that the WWotW couldn't actually kill Dorothy. By the end of the movie, Glinda was ready to rule Oz with an iron fist. Sure, "only bad witches are ugly", but they can be beautiful too.

Along with Madame Morrible and the Wizard, right? 60

[gigi]

Originally Posted by Annie-Xmas

I have posted about working for a year on an annotated versions of Ira Levin's "Rosemary's Baby," only to look at the cover six months later and realize:

Rosemary's Baby.
Rose-mary's Baby
Mary's Baby

I guess I don't see the huge significance of that?? If it's the devil or antichrist, it's not Mary's baby, and "Rosemary's baby" doesn't imply an opposite...?? 61

[Rocketeer]

Originally Posted by Cliffy

I hesitate to mention this, because last time we did one of these it came close to derailing the thread. But Kris in Miracle on 34th Street? Just a nice old man with whiskers. He's the beneficiary of a dozen people making more or less self-interested decisions (Macy and Gimbel wanting to look good for their customers; Fred hating his old job and wanting something outrageous to build his resume; Doris needing to prove to Fred that she wasn't a wrinkled up prune; the judge and political boss counting votes, and the post office getting rid of all those dead letters).

It's easier to see in the full-length version, as the broadcast one cuts a few important bits to fit in an extra commercial -- most importantly, the scene where Macy and Gimbel are fighting over who gets to buy Kris the X-Ray machine so they can look good in front of the press.

--Cliffy

...and you shouldn't have mentioned it, because now I have to rebut you. All those things happened because Kris was the real deal. You think all that stuff would have lined up so nicely if Kris was just some potty old dodger from the old-age home? 62

[Cliffy]

Originally Posted by RealityChuck

You're correct, but the final scene makes it clear that he's more than just a nice old man with whiskers.

Yes, he's a nice old man who knows how to read the real estate section of the paper. I don't understand why you think it's any sort of coup de grace. The house wasn't free or anything. You think on any given weekend you couldn't find at least one house for sale in the greater metro New York area with a swing in the back?

--Cliffy 63

[commasense]

A house that looked exactly like the one in the picture that Susan had been wishing for? 64

[Roadfood]

Originally Posted by Daddypants

Not something creative but... I have a habit of trying to figure out what the different letters on the back of cars mean. Only recently did I realize what the A in Audi A4, A6, and A8 stands for. Duh!

I've seen the Infiniti car logo for years, but only a few months ago did my feeble brain cells finally grasp that it's a road going off to infinity . . . 65

[WOOKINPANUB]

Originally Posted by gigi

I guess I don't see the huge significance of that?? If it's the devil or antichrist, it's not Mary's baby, and "Rosemary's baby" doesn't imply an opposite...??

I meant to ask about this when it was mentioned in another thread. I thought the thing was the "rose" part as meaning "Mary's baby arose" but it still doesn't make much sense to me. Please 'splain to my dense self 66

[Freudian Slit]

Originally Posted by WOOKINPANUB

I meant to ask about this when it was mentioned in another thread. I thought the thing was the "rose" part as meaning "Mary's baby arose" but it still doesn't make much sense to me. Please 'splain to my dense self

I just thought she meant that it was a play on Mary. Mary, Rosemary. If there's something more to it, then I'm also dense. 67

[RealityChuck]

Originally Posted by Cliffy

Yes, he's a nice old man who knows how to read the real estate section of the paper. I don't understand why you think it's any sort of coup de grace. The house wasn't free or anything. You think on any given weekend you couldn't find at least one house for sale in the greater metro New York area with a swing in the back?

Considering the fact that he had no way to get to the house, yes. Kris didn't drive, and he was only available to get there the night after the trial, when there was no one available to drive him (the characters were all with family).

Since he left his cane -- it's too much a coincidence otherwise -- he had to physically be in the house. Kris did not have a car -- it was specifically mentioned he took a train into the city before he moved in with Fred.

Further, Kris wanted to make sure Susan and Doris believed in him. He did not fully get that confirmation until Christmas morning, when Doris said* "I was wrong when I told you that, Susie. You must believe in Mr. Kringle and keep right on doing it. You must have faith in him." His wanted Susan to believe in make believe and miracles; Susan did not until then. If he had gone to the house on Christmas Eve (even though logistically impossible), he would have given her the house without her believing in Santa.

*Her note on Susan's letter was "I believe in you," not "I believe in Santa." Major difference. 68

[Morbo]

Originally Posted by Roadfood

I've seen the Infiniti car logo for years, but only a few months ago did my feeble brain cells finally grasp that it's a road going off to infinity . . .

I've owned Subarus for years...and only recently found out that "Subaru" is Japanese for Pleiades, hence the logo. 69

[Don Draper]

I was just now at the gym on the treadmill, watching a re-run of "Will & Grace" when it suddenly struck me that the names of the two characters (and the series) is an ironic twist:

The character Eric McCormack plays is smart, successful, handsome, but a big pushover. He always knuckles under to Grace and Jack, objecting to their many outrageous demands on him but constantly doing what they want him to do. He's intimidated by his mother, and must often be coaxed into standing up for himself. He has no WILLpower.

The character Debra Messing plays is a sexy, but extremely neurotic red-head, prone to shrill outbursts. She has no qualms about making huge public spectacle of herself on a routine basis. She is severely lacking in social GRACE.

Will & Grace. Or rather "weak-willed & graceless." Heh. 70

[Hippy Hollow]

Originally Posted by Roadfood

I've seen the Infiniti car logo for years, but only a few months ago did my feeble brain cells finally grasp that it's a road going off to infinity . . .

I still don't get what Daddypants is talking about re: the A in Audi A4, etc. Can someone explain?!? 71

[commasense]

Originally Posted by Morbo

I've owned Subarus for years...and only recently found out that "Subaru" is Japanese for Pleiades, hence the logo.

And "Mitsubishi" is Japanese for "three diamonds," hence its logo. 72

[commasense]

Originally Posted by Roadfood

I've seen the Infiniti car logo for years, but only a few months ago did my feeble brain cells finally grasp that it's a road going off to infinity . . .

It's also a stylized figure-eight infinity symbol. But maybe you got that part. 73

[KneadToKnow]

I'd like to go ahead and put in a request that the Miracle on 34th Street issue be taken to its own thread where it can get the breathing room it needs. 74

[VarlosZ]

Not about a work of art, but I'd been reading posts by the SDMB's own Ellis Dee for at least four years before I realized (upon hearing the name spoken) that "Ellis Dee" = LSD. 75

[Freudian Slit]

Originally Posted by VarlosZ

Not about a work of art, but I'd been reading posts by the SDMB's own Ellis Dee for at least four years before I realized (upon hearing the name spoken) that "Ellis Dee" = LSD.

I didn't either till just now. Doh. 76

[Roadfood]

Originally Posted by commasense

It's also a stylized figure-eight infinity symbol. But maybe you got that part.

Um, no, I didn't. Over the years, every now and then when seeing the logo, the thought would flit across my mind as to why a car named "Infiniti" had a stylized "A" in a circle for it's logo . . .

But in defense of my brain cells, I had no trouble spotting the arrow in the Fed Ex logo. 77

[Tim R. Mortiss]

Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase

Maybe we're being whooshed, but there's nothing in the lyrics that remotely suggests this. Young love, yes. Making love, yes. Anal sex? No.

Oh, c'mon. "Making love in the green grass, behind the stadium with you..." You don't have to be Fellini to get the symbolism. 78

[enomaj]

OK. I knew who General Lee was. I knew what the Confederate flag looked like but....

SPOILER:

I watched most of the Dukes of Hazzard before putting 2 and 2 together.

I 79

[gigi]

Originally Posted by Tim R. Mortiss

Oh, c'mon. "Making love in the green grass, behind the stadium with you..." You don't have to be Fellini to get the symbolism.

Backfield in motion...?

I've posted this one before, but it took many years of listening and not hearing before I realized Scarborough Fair is about impossible demands:

Tell her to make me a cambric shirt,
Without no seams nor needlework 80

[enomaj]

Originally Posted by enomaj

OK. I knew who General Lee was. I knew what the Confederate flag looked like but....

SPOILER:

I watched most of the Dukes of Hazzard before putting 2 and 2 together.

I

The tv show when i waa a kid. 81

[sandra_nz]

I only recently realised that the badge for VW was a V on top of a W. I always thought it was just one big W and you were just supposed to look at the 'first half' of it for the V. 82

[corkboard]

Either I'm really stupid and still don't get the significance of "Rosemary's Baby" and the A in the models of Audis, or it's just always been so clear to me that I don't understand what could be "hidden" about either of them. Can someone spell out the point of both of those entries, in really easy to understand words? Thanks.

The last time (or one of the last times) we did this thread, I pointed out that just that morning I had been sitting behind a Saturn at a stoplight and the lightbulb went off over my head upon realizing that the logo is an image of a portion of the planet Saturn, with the rings around it. Until that point I just saw it as a generically swoopy image. 83

[Koxinga]

I've never heard or read of anyone making the same realization as I did about Beckett's "Waiting For Godot", which I read in high school. For some reason, Vladimir and Estragon refer to one another as "Didi" and "Gogo". Only a year or two later, after I started taking first-year Mandarin at the university, did I realize that those pet names are actually Mandarin for "litte brother" and "big brother". 84

[Freudian Slit]

So, am I being whooshed with the Brown Eyed Girl ref, or do people really think it's about anal sex? 85

[Annie-Xmas]

Anyone besides me think that the intro to Friends was the women first and then the men, not realizing until the millionth time watching it that it's also alsphabetically by last name? 86

[Freudian Slit]

Originally Posted by Annie-Xmas

Anyone besides me think that the intro to Friends was the women first and then the men, not realizing until the millionth time watching it that it's also alsphabetically by last name?

That actually took me a while. I think it sank it when Courtney Cox added the Arquette to her name and was therefore before Jennifer Anniston. 87

[Ellen Cherry]

To help with the Rosemary's Baby thing ... I think Annie is suggesting that rather than be an opposite to Mary's baby, ie. Jesus, having the mother of the son of the devil being named Rosemary is merely a Mary-like name. This points up the fact that he is, in fact, the son of the Devil not just the freakie looking son of a whacked out housewife.

I think.

And FWIW, I think the allegation that Brown Eyed Girl is about anal sex is latter-day bullshit. It's not like there aren't any actual girls with brown eyes for heavens sake, and that the eyes are an outstanding feature, worthy of writing songs about (see: all the other songs alluding to eyes). 88

[Freudian Slit]

Originally Posted by Ellen Cherry

And FWIW, I think the allegation that Brown Eyed Girl is about anal sex is latter-day bullshit. It's not like there aren't any actual girls with brown eyes for heavens sake, and that the eyes are an outstanding feature, worthy of writing songs about (see: all the other songs alluding to eyes).

I read that it was originally supposed to be called Brown Skinned Girl, about a black girl. That would make more sense than the anal sex thing, since someone else mentioned that brown eyes often = black, earlier in this thread. 89

[Sauron]

Originally Posted by Freudian Slit

That actually took me a while. I think it sank it when Courtney Cox added the Arquette to her name and was therefore before Jennifer Anniston.

Why would that matter in the placement of their names? 90

[tdn]

Originally Posted by Nobody

I mentioned this in another thread before, but I don't know how many years I heard the song Life in the Fast Lane before I realized that "there were lines on the mirror" was referring to cocaine.

Maybe, maybe not.

When I was in college I took a class called Analysis of Song Lyrics. We pulled this one apart. We came up with three (maybe more) explanations for that line:

-Lines of cocaine on a mirror
-Cracks in a rearview mirror after a car crash
-Facial wrinkles

Our conclusion was that it was all three and so packed with meaning. We may have been reading too much into it, though. 91

[Freudian Slit]

Originally Posted by Sauron

Why would that matter in the placement of their names?

Yeah...it really wouldn't. I have no idea what I was thinking. 92

[wolfman]

Originally Posted by Stauderhorse

Just now.

Goldilocks and the Three Bears.

Gold-i-locks.

Gold locks = blond hair.

Duh.

It wasn't until We were reading fairy tales in High School German that I understood Cinderella.
"Aschenputtel? Oh like ashy girl because she is dirty from cleaning the fireplace. Too bad they didn't use a clever name like that in English for Cinder......_ellla 93

[Hippy Hollow]

Originally Posted by corkboard

Either I'm really stupid and still don't get the significance of "Rosemary's Baby" and the A in the models of Audis, or it's just always been so clear to me that I don't understand what could be "hidden" about either of them. Can someone spell out the point of both of those entries, in really easy to understand words? Thanks.

Yeah, I've asked twice about the A in Audi A4/6/8. I still don't get it. For anyone who does, could you please explain? 94

[WOOKINPANUB]

Originally Posted by Hippy Hollow

Yeah, I've asked twice about the A in Audi A4/6/8. I still don't get it. For anyone who does, could you please explain?

Bah. Even after Ellen Cherry so kindly tried to explain, the Rosemary's Baby thing is still not resonating with me. 95

[Freudian Slit]

Originally Posted by WOOKINPANUB

Bah. Even after Ellen Cherry so kindly tried to explain, the Rosemary's Baby thing is still not resonating with me.

I think the problem is that it's too simple. Mary's baby was Jesus. Rosemary's baby was the antiChrist. It's just kind of fun that Rosemary has "Mary" in it. Ira Levin liked putting in word games/plays on words in his books...this isn't really a complicated one. 96

[FalconFinder]

Originally Posted by corkboard

<snip>
The last time (or one of the last times) we did this thread, I pointed out that just that morning I had been sitting behind a Saturn at a stoplight and the lightbulb went off over my head upon realizing that the logo is an image of a portion of the planet Saturn, with the rings around it. Until that point I just saw it as a generically swoopy image.

I OWNED my Saturn for more than 5 years before I finally noticed the logo was a portion of the planet!

Often, during those years, I'd see what I thought was a cool logo, but always wondered why they didn't just use the planet.

Then, one day I was looking at my car and the logo in passing and it struck me.

I must have laughed for 20 minutes when I realized my mistake all that time!

I still see the two line "swoopy" thing more than the planet and I like it fine that way!

----

As for the Audi thing, I would assume A=Audi. The numbers would stand for the number of cylinders it has. 97

[corkboard]

Originally Posted by Freudian Slit

I think the problem is that it's too simple. Mary's baby was Jesus. Rosemary's baby was the antiChrist. It's just kind of fun that Rosemary has "Mary" in it. Ira Levin liked putting in word games/plays on words in his books...this isn't really a complicated one.

So is the "Rose" supposed to equate somehow to "anti", or something, or is it meaningless? 98

[Gadarene]

Originally Posted by Koxinga

I've never heard or read of anyone making the same realization as I did about Beckett's "Waiting For Godot", which I read in high school. For some reason, Vladimir and Estragon refer to one another as "Didi" and "Gogo". Only a year or two later, after I started taking first-year Mandarin at the university, did I realize that those pet names are actually Mandarin for "litte brother" and "big brother".

Huh. 99

[Freudian Slit]

Originally Posted by corkboard

So is the "Rose" supposed to equate somehow to "anti", or something, or is it meaningless?

I think it's just meaningless. It just sounds cool because it has a "Mary" in it. 100