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  #2551  
Old 09-05-2016, 09:26 AM
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Close. It was German for "yowling of cats".
I always figured it was a pun, Katz (Kids) in a jam. You're probably right though.
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Old 09-05-2016, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
Probably not. The comic strip debuted in 1897. The phrase doesn't appear until the 1920s.

Katzenjammer, or cat's wail, a sound of distress, is from about 1849.
I have read (but don't have the reference , and don't know how far back it goes) that "Katzenjammer" was slang for "hangover", and that this influenced the choice of the title. (Wikipedia corroborates it, though, both under "katzenjammer" and "Katzenjammer kids") A quick look on Google N-Gram shows that the term was used for both "hangover" and simply "a mess" since the 1880s.
  #2553  
Old 09-22-2016, 09:58 PM
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From "Carrying the Banner", the opening song for the Disney musical Newsies...

"Uptown to Grand Central Station, down to City Hall...

We improves our circulation, walking 'till we fall."

That's a double entendre on circulation. As in exercise of walking and as in selling the paper.


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  #2554  
Old 09-23-2016, 10:06 AM
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In Ursula LeGuin's story "The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas", I just realized that "Omelas" sounds like omelette. There's an old saying that you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.

In the story, Omelas is a perfect society which has a nasty secret.
SPOILER:
It can only exist by torturing an innocent child.
  #2555  
Old 09-23-2016, 10:56 PM
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Although that's probably just a coincidence -- LeGuin says that "Omelas" is just "Salem, O" backwards -- it's a lovely coincidence, and LeGuin might very well have appreciated it and kept the use of the name because of it, where she might otherwise have thrown it out and come up with another name.

Sometimes, these wonderful things aren't intentional...but so wonderful, so perfect, you almost have to believe in universal synchrony!
  #2556  
Old 09-24-2016, 01:18 AM
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In Star Trek: The Real Story, Bob Justman says he chose Belok's scary alter ego as the background for Herb Solow's name in the series' closing credits. Okay....

Watching "Balance of Terror" close on Friday, I noticed that Vina (as the hot green Orion slave girl in "The Menagerie") was the background for Desilu. I suspect this was in tribute to studio owner Lucille Ball.
  #2557  
Old 09-24-2016, 01:52 PM
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Although that's probably just a coincidence -- LeGuin says that "Omelas" is just "Salem, O" backwards -- it's a lovely coincidence, and LeGuin might very well have appreciated it and kept the use of the name because of it, where she might otherwise have thrown it out and come up with another name.

Sometimes, these wonderful things aren't intentional...but so wonderful, so perfect, you almost have to believe in universal synchrony!
There was some movie or episode of a TV show where the main character visits a town named Melas. It wasn't until the end where you see the town's name in the rear view mirror that I realized what the plot twist was.
  #2558  
Old 10-02-2016, 03:17 PM
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I'm watching Shrek the Third for the fourth time or so, there's nothing else on tv and I'm cleaning during the commercials, but I just realized that Merlin, voiced by Eric Idle, is wearing socks with his sandals.

It made me laugh because of societies general attitude towards the thing and my roommate does it as well. And just to mess with him I'll say something like, "Oh, you're wearing socks with your sandals." In a way one would say, "Oh, you got broccoli in you teeth." And then he'll say, "Fuck society."
  #2559  
Old 10-02-2016, 03:22 PM
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I'm watching Shrek the Third for the fourth time or so, there's nothing else on tv and I'm cleaning during the commercials, but I just realized that Merlin, voiced by Eric Idle, is wearing socks with his sandals.

It made me laugh because of societies general attitude towards the thing and my roommate does it as well. And just to mess with him I'll say something like, "Oh, you're wearing socks with your sandals." In a way one would say, "Oh, you got broccoli in you teeth." And then he'll say, "Fuck society."
Hardly society, just some wanna be hipsters and a few angry basement dwelling trolls.

Low, no-show socks are quite normal when wearing sandals like Keens. And when out hiking, heavy wools socks are commonly worn with sandals on coolers days.

Now yes, thin calf-high black or white socks are a bit of a fashion no-no, but you know what, your friend is right- fuck them.
  #2560  
Old 10-03-2016, 08:31 AM
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I remember the Indian music influenced 1982 British pop hit Ever So Lonely by Monsoon fairly well. It seemed very wistful with a repeated chorus of 'Ever so lonely. Ever so lonely WITH you.' I always assumed it was about unrequited love.

Yesterday I saw a repeat of an old pop show and they were showing Ever So Lonely.These days I usually have on-screen text permanently on. I was actually surprised there is an extra, hidden syllable and the actual lyrics are 'Ever so lonely. Ever so lonely WITHOUT you.'

Making the lyric completely conventional and rather trite.

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  #2561  
Old 10-03-2016, 04:13 PM
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I was watching Airplane! last weekend for the first time in at least a decade. It was a movie I watched a ton growing up, and I loved it because it was just so silly. However, this last weekend, I finally understood one of the jokes that I never really thought was a joke, just a bit of absurdity.

When Leslie Nielsen asks Robert Hays if he can fly and land the plane, Hayes replies "It's a completely different type of flying (pause) altogether", which is followed by Nielsen and the flight attendant repeating "It's a completely different type of flying"

It hit me that they didn't repeat "Altogether" and repeated what he said because he said "Altogether"
  #2562  
Old 10-04-2016, 02:07 PM
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I was watching We Were Soldiers this morning about the Battle of Ia Drang in Vietnam. One thing I noticed that seemed extremely odd. While Col Moore (Mel Gibson) and his 7th Air Cavalry is fighting in 'Nam, the wives back home are receiving notifications of the deaths of their husbands.

The entire battle only lasted a couple of days. How are they receiving same-day casualty notifications in 1965 via telegraph while the battle is still in progress? Mrs Moore even says "the Army wasn't ready" which is why the notifications are arriving via taxicabs instead of proper military personal. Really? Yet they are ready to process real-time casualty reports from a unit in the midst of a chaotic battle cutoff from other units, type up a bunch of form letters and telegraph them to the US? It's just the last leg of the supply chain in delivering the letters they didn't have staff for?

It occurred to me that maybe it was time shifted to account for the delay in processing. But that doesn't make sense either as the first thing Col Moore would have done right after the battle is contact his wife once he got back to base. "Hey honey, you might see Walter Cronkite talking about this massive battle my unit was in yesterday. Just letting you know I'm fine...pretty much all your friend's husbands are dead though...so...yeah"

Instead, the way it's presented, Mrs Moore has no idea if her husband is even alive until he shows up on her doorstep, presumably at the end of his tour months later.
  #2563  
Old 10-07-2016, 07:48 AM
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Having been a preteen when it first came out, I probably watched Who Framed Roger Rabbit literally 50 times before it occurred to me that the cartoons are a metaphor/stand in for black America


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Old 10-07-2016, 09:03 AM
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I used to read a lot of Perry Mason novels, and he was always talking about subpoenas. It was years before I realized that what I'd mentally pronounced "sub-po-ENN-ah" was the "suppeena" I'd hear about on TV cop and legal shows.
  #2565  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:16 AM
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I used to read a lot of Perry Mason novels, and he was always talking about subpoenas. It was years before I realized that what I'd mentally pronounced "sub-po-ENN-ah" was the "suppeena" I'd hear about on TV cop and legal shows.
I had a similar experience: As an English major, I read lots of Dickens, Brontes, Thackery, etc. novels in college. They always kept talking about "gaol", which I realized was prison. But it was a looooong time before I realized that it was just an archaic spelling, and that it was pronounced the same as "jail" and not "gall" (as in gall bladder).
  #2566  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:19 AM
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military personal
Personnel.
  #2567  
Old 10-07-2016, 10:25 AM
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I remember reading a Little Lulu comic when I was five or six years old, and saw the word "misled." For years afterward, I thought it was pronounced "MI-zeld," and from context believed it meant "cheated."

It wasn't until I was 19 or 20 that I realized it was pronounced "mis-LED." I wasn't that far off on the meaning though.
  #2568  
Old 10-07-2016, 01:25 PM
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Having been a preteen when it first came out, I probably watched Who Framed Roger Rabbit literally 50 times before it occurred to me that the cartoons are a metaphor/stand in for black America

and you would be wrong.
  #2569  
Old 10-07-2016, 02:03 PM
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and you would be wrong.
I disagree. I think that's what the author is talking about. Segregation, prejudice...

Here's a cite, admittedly not from the author.

http://hellogiggles.com/what-you-may...-roger-rabbit/
  #2570  
Old 10-07-2016, 05:54 PM
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I've been listening to the Grateful Dead song "Jack Straw" for years now, and for some reason it never occurred to me that this verse is a dialog.

I just jumped the watchman, right outside the fence.
Took his rings, four bucks in change, ain't that Heaven sent?
Hurts my ears to listen, Shannon, burns my eyes to see;
Cut down a man in cold blood, Shannon, might as well been me.

IOW

"I just jumped the watchman," said Shannon, "Right outside the fence.
Took his rings, four bucks in change, ain't that Heaven sent?"

"[That] Hurts my ears to listen, Shannon, burns my eyes to see," replied Jack Straw,
"[You] Cut down a man in cold blood, Shannon, might as well been me."

The murder is why the stakes got higher, and why Jack cut his buddy (Shannon) down.
  #2571  
Old 10-07-2016, 06:04 PM
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I disagree. I think that's what the author is talking about. Segregation, prejudice...

Here's a cite, admittedly not from the author.

http://hellogiggles.com/what-you-may...-roger-rabbit/
That's an opinion, not crazy sure, but by no means at all is it "Obvious". It's just a hypothesis.
  #2572  
Old 10-08-2016, 01:38 AM
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You're wrong; it's obvious. It's as obvious as a pie in the face. It's as obvious as Jessica Rabbit's eye-shadow. It's as obvious as the groaning noise deep in the bowels of a 'Toon giraffe who's just been fed a big dose of prune juice. Why, it's so obvious, it hits most people like a ton of bricks. Kudu kudu paw!

Last edited by Trinopus; 10-08-2016 at 01:39 AM.
  #2573  
Old 10-12-2016, 12:18 AM
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One of my favourite anime series is Yuki Yuna is a Hero. It took me several re-watchings to catch a clever bit of foreshadowing in the fifth (out of twelve) episode:

SPOILER:
The series is a dark deconstruction of Sailor Moon-style "Magical Girl" series. In the fifth episode, the girls' leader, Fu, gives a short pep talk before a big battle. Each of the other four girls responds to the pep talk, and every response foreshadows something that specific girl is about to lose:

- Yuna looks forward to the big meal that Fu promises them if they win. As it turns out, using their powerful Mankai ability in battle comes at the cost of the Sange: a part of their body will be permanently crippled. In Yuna's case, she loses her sense of taste.

- Karin boasts that she'll destroy several of the enemies herself, but ends up playing a very minor part in the battle. Karin's entire sense of self-worth centred on her belief that she is more powerful than any of the others. Failing to make a difference in the battle takes a heavy toll on her, especial since she's the only one who doesn't activate Mankai in the battle and thus she is the only one to escape the Sange

- Itsuki alludes to her dream of becoming a professional singer, but the Sange takes her voice away.

- Togo, whose nationalism and collectivism is a running theme in the series, says that they must fight for the people. Later it's revealed that their battles will never be over, and the girls will be forced to go Mankai endlessly. They'll become more and more crippled due to the Sange until they're bedridden and unable to fight. The knowledge that the greater good requires her friends will have to pay this price themselves over and over in this way is the last straw for the Togo, who decides that she'll sacrifice anything, even the world, if it means saving them from this fate.
  #2574  
Old 10-18-2016, 09:22 PM
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Just discovered that in "Rocky Mountain High" the line is "He climbed cathedral mountains" and not "He climbed to see the mountains."
  #2575  
Old 10-18-2016, 09:39 PM
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I just started re-watching Dead Like Me, and looking at the DVD cover I just realized that's a bubblegum bubble. I guess I never really thought about it before, but I'd just never realized it was that.
  #2576  
Old 10-18-2016, 09:46 PM
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If you search for the lyrics of "Punk Rock Girl" by The Dead Milkmen, you'll find the following:

I tapped her on the shoulder and said "Do you have a bell?"
She looked at me and smiled and said she did not know.


This doesn't make sense or even rhyme, but I couldn't come up with an alternative. Then it hit me. The singer's question is "Do you have a beau?" not "Do you have a bell?"

Now it's finally clear.
  #2577  
Old 10-18-2016, 10:01 PM
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Having been a preteen when it first came out, I probably watched Who Framed Roger Rabbit literally 50 times before it occurred to me that the cartoons are a metaphor/stand in for black America
The book and the movie are very, very, very, very different things. The author that got linked to cheats more than a little bit by mixing the two. How many people have read the book? How much input did Gary K. Wolfe have to the movie? Who's Gary K. Wolf? He's the author of the fucking book whose name the fucking writer of that piece didn't bother to fucking cite. I fucking hate when idiots disrespect authors that way, if you couldn't tell.

The toons are a metaphor for blacks in America in somewhat the same way that the X-Men are a metaphor for gays in America. They weren't originally: the X-Men were generically any outsider group suffering prejudice. Over the years gays and others have championed the X-Men as metaphors and so they have become that. The Roger Rabbit movie offers a variety of outsider tropes in the same way. Maybe the book is more explicit; it's been too long since I read it. But Gary K. Wolf was a science fiction genre writer and science fiction has been offering aliens, mutants, monsters, and other outsiders as generic metaphors for real world prejudice since forever. Toons are one example among a million.
  #2578  
Old 10-18-2016, 10:23 PM
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I was just re-reading...for the two-dozenth time or so...Walt Kelly's "The Pogo Papers." In one panel, Uncle Antlers, the Moose, calls Albert Alligator a rude name.

"Frog face. Frog face. Frog face. Fog frace."

In all the many times I'd read that collection of cartoons before, I'd never noticed "Fog frace."
  #2579  
Old 10-18-2016, 10:43 PM
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I had a similar experience: As an English major, I read lots of Dickens, Brontes, Thackery, etc. novels in college. They always kept talking about "gaol", which I realized was prison. But it was a looooong time before I realized that it was just an archaic spelling, and that it was pronounced the same as "jail" and not "gall" (as in gall bladder).
I had the same experience with Geoffrey. For a long time, I thought it was pronounced Joffrey (like the ballet company).
  #2580  
Old 10-18-2016, 11:31 PM
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The book and the movie are very, very, very, very different things. The author that got linked to cheats more than a little bit by mixing the two. How many people have read the book? How much input did Gary K. Wolfe have to the movie? Who's Gary K. Wolf? He's the author of the fucking book whose name the fucking writer of that piece didn't bother to fucking cite. I fucking hate when idiots disrespect authors that way, if you couldn't tell.
Given that the book and the movie are very, very, very, very different things, what would be the point in asking the guy who wrote the book what the movie's about?
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Old 10-19-2016, 11:55 AM
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Just rewatched The Sting.

I realized that plot would never have worked. Lonnegan would end up having them all killed.
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Originally Posted by Richard John Marcej View Post
Maybe, or maybe not.
Lonnegan was a huge crime pin, and one thing that keeps men like them on top, that keeps his underlings in line is the belief that he's infallible. That combination of fear and belief that he can't be taken or beat (even if he has to cheat to prove that fact). There's even a line in the film where Lonnegan warns one of his men not to get the idea to even think about turning against him, like he thinks Hooker's doing to Gondorff.

The LAST think Lonnegan would want to get out, is the fact he was taken down in a con. Over the years he might still eventually go after people he thinks were involved, but he'd never make a big deal out of it.
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Theres also a general sense, at least in those sorts of films, that there's bootlegger kinda gangsters who are a "menace to society" and then there's mass-murdering gotta be stop evildoers... Wiping out everyone and their brother wouldn't have the same impunity as occasionally gambling.
But [uh, SPOILERS] Lonnegan already hired a famous assassin to kill a nobody small-time grifter [Hooker] who stole a little bit from a low-level courier in Lonnegan's organization. Why wouldn't he do at least as much for the guys who stole much much more from him personally?
  #2582  
Old 10-19-2016, 12:39 PM
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Given that the book and the movie are very, very, very, very different things, what would be the point in asking the guy who wrote the book what the movie's about?
The article uses the book to make its point. Moreover, Wolf created the entire concept of Toons. None of it exists without his mind making it real. How can anyone produce a whole article on what an author's invention means as a metaphor without at any point mentioning the author?
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Old 10-20-2016, 09:30 AM
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With a nod to Nobel Laureate Bob Dylan and Lily, Rosemary, and the Jack of Hearts,":

Rosemary started drinking hard, and seeing her reflection in the knife
She was tired of the attention, tire of playing the role of Big Jim's wife.

and later:

The next day was hanging day, and the sky was overcast and black.
And Big Jim laid covered up, killed by a pen knife in the back.

Rory's "knife" was literal, and actually the knife she used to kill Big Jim.

Last edited by Annie-Xmas; 10-20-2016 at 09:30 AM.
  #2584  
Old 11-08-2016, 08:51 AM
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I know this thread is almost zombified, but...

Cruella De Vil - I don't think I've ever seen it written out. Cruella Devil!

I can't believe I've never noticed that!
  #2585  
Old 11-08-2016, 08:57 AM
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I know this thread is almost zombified, but...

Cruella De Vil - I don't think I've ever seen it written out. Cruella Devil!

I can't believe I've never noticed that!
Not to rub salt in the wound -- okay, maybe a bit -- but it's referenced in her song.
  #2586  
Old 11-08-2016, 02:11 PM
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I know this thread is almost zombified, but...

Cruella De Vil - I don't think I've ever seen it written out. Cruella Devil!

I can't believe I've never noticed that!
Along those lines, I only just now saw the name the character Mel Brooks plays in Spaceballs written out: President Skroob, which is one letter off from "Brooks" backwards.

Never caught that watching the film.
  #2587  
Old 11-08-2016, 02:21 PM
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Not to rub salt in the wound -- okay, maybe a bit -- but it's referenced in her song.
And if you read the book, it is specifically mentioned there.
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  #2588  
Old 11-08-2016, 02:23 PM
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Not to rub salt in the wound -- okay, maybe a bit -- but it's referenced in her song.
If you listen to the long version of the song, where he talks about writing it, it almost seems like he's making her up.
  #2589  
Old 11-08-2016, 06:00 PM
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Along those lines, I only just now saw the name the character Mel Brooks plays in Spaceballs written out: President Skroob, which is one letter off from "Brooks" backwards.

Never caught that watching the film.
:hangs head in shame:
  #2590  
Old 11-08-2016, 11:30 PM
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Along those lines, I only just now saw the name the character Mel Brooks plays in Spaceballs written out: President Skroob, which is one letter off from "Brooks" backwards.

Never caught that watching the film.
It also has the feature of suggesting "Skroob balls" = "screwballs" when coupled with the "balls" part of the planet's name


(Or, as Mel Brooks said in the voice-over for the original trailer, after the word "Space" shows up, monolith-like after the opening 2 minutes of Also Sprach Zarathustra -- "Space? --- Where are the balls?" At which point the word "Balls" rushes in from the right, squeezing into "Space" to make "Spaceballs". Mel Brooks intone "Spaceballs -- The Movie!"

So "Skroob? Where are the Balls? --- Skrooballs, the planet")
  #2591  
Old 11-09-2016, 12:40 PM
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There was something in The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down that I didn't get, then I thought I got, and now it turns out it was never there to get.

The first line is

Virgil Caine is the name

And I heard the song many time before I made the connection to the last verse.

(referring to his brother, also presumably a Caine)
He was just 18, proud and brave
But a Yankee laid him in his grave
I swear by the mud below my feet
You can't raise a Caine back up
When he's in the field


Ah, I thought, it's a play on Caine/cane, and that one of them doesn't grow back when it's planted in the ground.

But I just looked it up, and two sources say it's not "in the field", it's "in defeat". I like mine better.
  #2592  
Old 11-09-2016, 12:53 PM
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Scarecrow wants a brain...yet he's the smartest guy in the group who comes up with all the ideas.
Tinman wants a heart, but he's a sentimental lug.
Cowardly lion wants courage, and he's the toughest SOB there.

Duh.
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I remember being really impressed by this the first time I heard it. Especially WRT to the Scarecrow. His great ideas really do stand out when I look back.
IMHO this comes out in the book, too, but a bit differently.

Move:
---Scarecrow does have a lot of clever ideas
---Tinman is a softy
---Lion IS mostly a coward.

Book:
---Scarecrow comes up with a lot of ideas (but IIRC, some are harebrained)
---Tinman is quite self-consciously self aware of his lack of heart so he studiously (frankly, heartlessly) always does the gentle thing because he doesn't trust his own judgement (lacking a heart, and all)
---Lion is a 'man of action', ALWAYS doing the courageous thing without hesitation, never showing fear (maybe afraid to show fear, IIRC). He claims he is a coward because he feels fear inside. This may have been the view of people at the time the book was written, but Lion is definitely courageous by modern lights.
  #2593  
Old 11-09-2016, 02:41 PM
Major Matt Mason is offline
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Having been a preteen when it first came out, I probably watched Who Framed Roger Rabbit literally 50 times before it occurred to me that the cartoons are a metaphor/stand in for black America
Same thing for the animals in "Cats Don't Dance".

I have a couple of creative works misconceptions: I thought Dylan's "Lay, Lady, Lay" was "Lady Of Spain", and, because my father was an engineer and told me the little numbers after a song title were the time of a song, I thought the Beatles recorded most of their songs around three in the afternoon (at age six, this made perfect sense; they'd get to the studio at nine, rehearse until noon, lunch at one, more rehearsal until three or so, record the song, do overdubs and such until five and head for home!)...

-MMM-
  #2594  
Old 11-09-2016, 05:45 PM
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In the episode of the Simpsons where Comic Book Guy is pushing a wheelbarrow with 100 tacos saying something like they would provide efficient nourishment for the Doctor Who marathon I was assuming that he had invited some nerd friends over to watch with him.

Today it just dawned on me that's it's probably a fat joke and he got all the tacos for himself.
  #2595  
Old 11-09-2016, 07:11 PM
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In the episode of the Simpsons where Comic Book Guy is pushing a wheelbarrow with 100 tacos saying something like they would provide efficient nourishment for the Doctor Who marathon I was assuming that he had invited some nerd friends over to watch with him.

Today it just dawned on me that's it's probably a fat joke and he got all the tacos for himself.
I think it's more a reference to just how long a Who marathon would take. 26 original series, 9 modern series, plus a movie? It would take a week to watch them all if you planned to sleep at all. 14 tacos a day isn't all that much food, really, if that's all you're eating.
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Old 11-09-2016, 10:48 PM
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I think it's more a reference to just how long a Who marathon would take. 26 original series, 9 modern series, plus a movie? It would take a week to watch them all if you planned to sleep at all. 14 tacos a day isn't all that much food, really, if that's all you're eating.
This was long before the series got revived, and I think before the movie too.
  #2597  
Old 11-10-2016, 08:08 AM
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Watching "The Dawn of Man" sequence from "2001" with my daughter.

"Dad! Is that their.... "

Uh, yes, apparently the proto-humans were anatomically correct. Never noticed that before.

Last edited by JohnT; 11-10-2016 at 08:08 AM.
  #2598  
Old 11-10-2016, 09:48 AM
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I remembered a few more:

1. I hadn't heard George Jones' "He Stopped Loving Her Today" since I was a kid around the late seventies. I never paid attention to the lyrics back then, and in the meantime all I ever heard of it was a snippet of the chorus in commercials for Time-Life collections and such, so I always thought of it as a break-up song. Then it came on XM the other day and I really listened to it, and finally realized, "Oh, because he's dead".

2. For many years, I thought Reni Santoni and Edward James Olmos were the same person.
  #2599  
Old 11-10-2016, 05:25 PM
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I remember reading a Little Lulu comic when I was five or six years old, and saw the word "misled." For years afterward, I thought it was pronounced "MI-zeld," and from context believed it meant "cheated."

It wasn't until I was 19 or 20 that I realized it was pronounced "mis-LED." I wasn't that far off on the meaning though.


Me, too!

For the record, I think misle (v. to cheat or fool) SHOULD be added to the English language ASAP.

Lastly, in the context of the trading card game , Magic, I understand that "to Mise" means to win by luck or to win undeserveely, named after a player who won some (many?) matches where observers thought he was sure to lose.
  #2600  
Old 11-10-2016, 07:11 PM
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But [uh, SPOILERS] Lonnegan already hired a famous assassin to kill a nobody small-time grifter [Hooker] who stole a little bit from a low-level courier in Lonnegan's organization. Why wouldn't he do at least as much for the guys who stole much much more from him personally?
You missed the point. Nobody stole anything from him: he made a mistake in placing his bet. Of course, he doesn't like loosing money, even when it's his own fault, and he's the kind of guy who might just lean on you, or steal the money back --- And then the place was busted by the Fed's, so there was nobody and nothing left.
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