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  #5251  
Old 07-21-2015, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
They shot her because she was damaging their vehicles.
They shot her because she was attempting to kill them.
  #5252  
Old 07-21-2015, 02:31 PM
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They shot her because she was attempting to kill them.
No reasonable person could conclude that she presented a lethal threat to anyone.
  #5253  
Old 07-21-2015, 02:36 PM
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No reasonable person could conclude that she presented a lethal threat to anyone.
The prosecutor and the grand jury disagreed.
  #5254  
Old 07-21-2015, 02:37 PM
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Good luck finding people who want to police you under the terms you're providing. You need them on that wall.
To paraphrase Smapti (he probably practices this speech in the mirror):

"You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Kobal2? Cops have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Small and you curse the cops. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what they know: that Small's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And the cops existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall."

You tell 'em Smapti.

What do the cops call a Code Red? Shooting an unarmed civilian?

Last edited by dasmoocher; 07-21-2015 at 02:38 PM.
  #5255  
Old 07-21-2015, 02:38 PM
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The prosecutor and the grand jury disagreed.
Who, the prosecutor with the conflict of interest? That prosecutor?
  #5256  
Old 07-21-2015, 02:39 PM
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The prosecutor and the grand jury disagreed.
One of the jurors admits they were mistaken not to indict. The prosecutor likely presented a feeble case because prosecutors and cops are thick as thieves. This is yet another example at to why a state or federal prosecutor should handle all cases where police kill people.
  #5257  
Old 07-21-2015, 02:42 PM
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One of the jurors admits they were mistaken not to indict.
And the other seventeen?

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The prosecutor likely presented a feeble case because prosecutors and cops are thick as thieves. This is yet another example at to why a state or federal prosecutor should handle all cases where police kill people.
Hell, who even needs a trial at all when we know they're guilty?
  #5258  
Old 07-21-2015, 02:43 PM
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They shot her because she was attempting to kill them.
She was doing a shit job of it.
  #5259  
Old 07-21-2015, 02:44 PM
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She was doing a shit job of it.
And the Japanese did a shit job of destroying the US Navy. Does that mean the Pacific theater was unjustified murder?
  #5260  
Old 07-21-2015, 02:45 PM
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She was doing a shit job of it.
Didn't she damage their bullets with her body?
  #5261  
Old 07-21-2015, 02:47 PM
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So, in other words, "civilians".
Cops are civilans, asshat.

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Shoot them up with the guns they didn't have?
Obviously, the point is that they didn't feel like they needed any. If they did they could have not intervened, and had obviously no duty to do so.

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Rebutted above.
When you're down to American exceptionalism, it's time to rethink your position, son.
  #5262  
Old 07-21-2015, 02:50 PM
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And the other seventeen?



Hell, who even needs a trial at all when we know they're guilty?
Presumably this guy could have persuaded some of the others had he realized then what he does now.

Who's saying that? I'm just saying that local prosecutors are incapable of handling police killing cases.

You know, there's gotta be a place where the police have the freedom to act as you seem to wish. Where the police are always right and may kill anyone at any time with impunity. Somewhere with a Dear Leader, perhaps.
  #5263  
Old 07-21-2015, 02:50 PM
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Cops are civilans, asshat.
We're gonna have to change the thread title, then.
  #5264  
Old 07-21-2015, 02:51 PM
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You know, there's gotta be a place where the police have the freedom to act as you seem to wish. Where the police are always right and may kill anyone at any time with impunity. Somewhere with a Dear Leader, perhaps.
Says the person arguing for politically-motivated show trials of people exercising their human rights.

I, on the other hand, have never argued that "the police are always right and may kill anyone at any time with impunity", and if you were capable of being honest enough with yourself to realize the problems with your worldview then you'd know that.

Last edited by Smapti; 07-21-2015 at 02:54 PM.
  #5265  
Old 07-21-2015, 02:55 PM
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Says the person arguing for politically-motivated show trials of people exercising their human rights.
Filling someone's face full of bullets for damaging a car is a human right?

Last edited by Czarcasm; 07-21-2015 at 02:56 PM.
  #5266  
Old 07-21-2015, 02:56 PM
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Filling someone's face full of bullets for damaging a car is a human right?
Self-defense is a human right. I know you don't consider police to be the same as humans, but they are.
  #5267  
Old 07-21-2015, 03:02 PM
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It seems to me that if a cop is too slow to evade a crawling car, it might be time for him to retire. There were non-lethal alternatives, the cop just chose to kill.
  #5268  
Old 07-21-2015, 03:11 PM
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There were non-lethal alternatives
And a person who is in danger of life or limb is not obligated to take any of them, whether or not they wear a uniform.
  #5269  
Old 07-21-2015, 03:13 PM
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And a person who is in danger of life or limb is not obligated to take any of them, whether or not they wear a uniform.
When there is no credible threat to one's life, one has an obligation not to kill. I think there might be a commandment about that.
  #5270  
Old 07-21-2015, 03:15 PM
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And a person who is in danger of life or limb is not obligated to take any of them, whether or not they wear a uniform.
You have not demonstrated how the cops were in danger of life or limb.
  #5271  
Old 07-21-2015, 03:16 PM
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When there is no credible threat to one's life, one has an obligation not to kill.
And when there is one, as existed in this scenario, no such obligation exists.

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I think there might be a commandment about that.
I do not acknowledge the Bible as an authoritative source of morality.
  #5272  
Old 07-21-2015, 03:18 PM
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You have not demonstrated how the cops were in danger of life or limb.
They were pursuing a person who was weaving erratically around the road, acting with complete disregard for human life, and rammed their vehicles several times even after being forced to a near-stop.

No reasonable person would not be in fear for their lives in such a scenario. I daresay you have never found yourself in a situation where you believed yourself to be in mortal danger from another human being, or you wouldn't be asserting the right to tell others when they are and aren't allowed to be afraid.
  #5273  
Old 07-21-2015, 03:22 PM
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They were pursuing a person who was weaving erratically around the road, acting with complete disregard for human life, and rammed their vehicles several times even after being forced to a near-stop.

No reasonable person would not be in fear for their lives in such a scenario. I daresay you have never found yourself in a situation where you believed yourself to be in mortal danger from another human being, or you wouldn't be asserting the right to tell others when they are and aren't allowed to be afraid.
But they don't have the right to be in fear in perpetuity. The car was essentially disabled and locked in. At the most she was in danger of scuffing the police vehicles. Because there were legitimate concerns during the chase does not mean that murder after the chase is justified.
  #5274  
Old 07-21-2015, 03:31 PM
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At the most she was in danger of scuffing the police vehicles.
Or crushing the legs and abdomen of anyone trying to approach. Or causing concussions to anyone inside the vehicle.

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Because there were legitimate concerns during the chase does not mean that murder after the chase is justified.
It's a good thing no murder took place, then.
  #5275  
Old 07-21-2015, 03:33 PM
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They were pursuing a person who was weaving erratically around the road, acting with complete disregard for human life, and rammed their vehicles several times even after being forced to a near-stop.
Which has no bearing on the threat that existed at the time the fatal shots were fired. Cops cannot claim mortal threat during a chase, then execute the suspect some time later when her car is immobilized between two cruisers and a tree. No threat to life or limb existed at the time of the shooting; they don't get to save up their fear for convenient use at a later time.
  #5276  
Old 07-21-2015, 03:50 PM
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Didn't anyone -- except apparently that highway patrol officer -- think to approach this fear-inducing vehicle from the side? You know, from the direction(s) that the wheels are incapable of pointing and thus a place that this driver, however potentially homicidal, cannot possibly project any threat? Nah, just stand in front where we've got a clear shot through the windshield! All my police training suggests that's the best course of action.
  #5277  
Old 07-21-2015, 03:57 PM
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No mention yet of Sandra Bland?
  #5278  
Old 07-21-2015, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
Or crushing the legs and abdomen of anyone trying to approach. Or causing concussions to anyone inside the vehicle.
Were any of the police still in their vehicles? I'm pretty sure the shooters weren't.

And the car was pinned - all she could do was go back and forward. So approaching a door is not going to get your legs crushed.

And you still haven't addressed the crazily foolhardy state trooper who was planning on opening the car door when the two locals opened fire.
  #5279  
Old 07-21-2015, 04:04 PM
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No mention yet of Sandra Bland?
Suicide. Clearly identified as such by the medical examiner, and the jail's cameras show that nobody entered her cell between when she was last seen alive and when she was found dead.

Unless you assert that she was killed by the Invisible Man or that the police have a network of secret jail tunnels for the purpose of faking suicides, there's nothing to mention.
  #5280  
Old 07-21-2015, 04:48 PM
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Suicide. Clearly identified as such by the medical examiner, and the jail's cameras show that nobody entered her cell between when she was last seen alive and when she was found dead.

Unless you assert that she was killed by the Invisible Man or that the police have a network of secret jail tunnels for the purpose of faking suicides, there's nothing to mention.
The camera was off for a couple of hours, and both the county and the F.B.I. are investigating it as a possible murder.
Or did you miss that part of the story, you shit-faced baboon?
  #5281  
Old 07-21-2015, 04:49 PM
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Suicide. Clearly identified as such by the medical examiner, and the jail's cameras show that nobody entered her cell between when she was last seen alive and when she was found dead.

Unless you assert that she was killed by the Invisible Man or that the police have a network of secret jail tunnels for the purpose of faking suicides, there's nothing to mention.
Or by slamming her head on the ground during a traffic stop (for failure to use a turn signal while changing lanes, and not extinguishing a cigarette in her own car - off to jail lady)

Oh crap, did I just post that in response to Smapti's rampant bull shit? Sorry.
  #5282  
Old 07-21-2015, 04:57 PM
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The camera was off for a couple of hours
You mean the motion-activated camera? The one that shuts off by design when nobody is moving through the area? That one?

Or did you miss that part of the story, you shit-faced baboon?

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and both the county and the F.B.I. are investigating it as a possible murder.
As they did the shooting of Michael Brown, whereafter they determined that no had occurred.

Last edited by Smapti; 07-21-2015 at 04:57 PM.
  #5283  
Old 07-21-2015, 04:58 PM
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Or by slamming her head on the ground during a traffic stop (for failure to use a turn signal while changing lanes, and not extinguishing a cigarette in her own car - off to jail lady)
If she hadn't been blowing smoke at the cop and started kicking him while being handcuffed, she'd never have ended up in a situation where she decided strangling herself with a grocery bag was the only way out.

Moral of the story, once again; just obey the fucking law.
  #5284  
Old 07-21-2015, 05:07 PM
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If she hadn't been blowing smoke at the cop and started kicking him while being handcuffed, she'd never have ended up in a situation where she decided strangling herself with a grocery bag was the only way out.

Moral of the story, once again; just obey the fucking law.
In all seriousness, if there was a law that said you had to fuck your kids once a month, would you do it?
  #5285  
Old 07-21-2015, 05:10 PM
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In all seriousness, if there was a law that said you had to fuck your kids once a month, would you do it?
"Daddddddy, noooooo!"

"STOP Resisting!"
  #5286  
Old 07-21-2015, 05:12 PM
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They were pursuing a person who was weaving erratically around the road, acting with complete disregard for human life, and rammed their vehicles several times even after being forced to a near-stop.

No reasonable person would not be in fear for their lives in such a scenario. I daresay you have never found yourself in a situation where you believed yourself to be in mortal danger from another human being, or you wouldn't be asserting the right to tell others when they are and aren't allowed to be afraid.
Did you see the video? Her car might as well have been up on blocks. It was moving mere inches. A six year old in a kiddie car going in circles at a county fair had about as much control.

Even if you never said the exact words, "Cops have a right to kill anyone with impunity", your posts in this thread clearly indicate that is your opinion.
  #5287  
Old 07-21-2015, 05:19 PM
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Did you see the video? Her car might as well have been up on blocks. It was moving mere inches.
It was moving. That made it a deadly weapon that was being used to attempt to attack the police.

Last edited by Smapti; 07-21-2015 at 05:19 PM.
  #5288  
Old 07-21-2015, 05:21 PM
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In all seriousness, if there was a law that said you had to fuck your kids once a month, would you do it?
I do not have or want children.
  #5289  
Old 07-21-2015, 05:26 PM
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I do not have or want children.
That doesn't answer the question. Imagine you've got a kid. The law says you have to fuck him once a month. Would you do it? If not, why not?
  #5290  
Old 07-21-2015, 05:28 PM
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That doesn't answer the question. Imagine you've got a kid. The law says you have to fuck him once a month. Would you do it? If not, why not?
I cannot imagine myself as having a kid, therefore I cannot answer the question.
  #5291  
Old 07-21-2015, 05:29 PM
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Is there a reason folks don't make a pact not to respond to Smapti and a few other folks? Just curious. You know that'd likely drive him/her bat shit. As it stands, I think (s)he's been living every troll's daily wet dream. (It'd be one thing if there were legitimate differences of opinion involving good faith assessment of facts and information, and actual ignorance being fought.)

Last edited by Fallen; 07-21-2015 at 05:30 PM.
  #5292  
Old 07-21-2015, 05:30 PM
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I cannot imagine myself as having a kid, therefore I cannot answer the question.
Okay. Fine. I have a kid. If the law says I should fuck him once a month, should I obey that law? If not, why not? It is, after all, the law.
  #5293  
Old 07-21-2015, 05:30 PM
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If she hadn't been blowing smoke at the cop and started kicking him while being handcuffed, she'd never have ended up in a situation where she decided strangling herself with a grocery bag was the only way out.

Moral of the story, once again; just obey the fucking law.
There is no law that I'm aware of that requires one to extinguish a cigarette on one's own property if ordered.

Also, as you know, getting her head slammed against the ground could have caused a mild concussion, which untreated during a stressful confinement could lead to unusual behavior from Miss Bland, such as a suicide attempt.

But, Smapti, what I'm most interested in here is your opinion on the following: has there ever been a police killing or assault that you did think was unjustified?
  #5294  
Old 07-21-2015, 05:31 PM
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Is there a reason folks don't make a pact not to respond to Smapti and a few other folks? Just curious. You know that'd likely drive him/her bat shit. As it stands, I think (s)he's been living every troll's daily wet dream. (It'd be one thing if there were legitimate differences of opinion involving good faith assessment of facts and information, and actual ignorance being fought.)
Troll or not, he's just too damn entertaining to ignore
  #5295  
Old 07-21-2015, 05:31 PM
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Suicide. Clearly identified as such by the medical examiner, and the jail's cameras show that nobody entered her cell between when she was last seen alive and when she was found dead.
Not quite. There simply is no footage of that time period. That's rather different from four hours of footage showing nothing at all.

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You mean the motion-activated camera? The one that shuts off by design when nobody is moving through the area? That one?
Or the one whose footage can be deleted with the push of a button. That one, yes.

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It was moving. That made it a deadly weapon that was being used to attempt to attack the police.
Oh, for fuck's sake. Stop digging !
  #5296  
Old 07-21-2015, 05:32 PM
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Okay. Fine. I have a kid. If the law says I should fuck him once a month, should I obey that law? If not, why not? It is, after all, the law.
You can either obey the law, or suffer the consequences of breaking it. You have not established what the penalty is for violating this law or how it is enforced, so I cannot advise you as to what course of action would be better for you.
  #5297  
Old 07-21-2015, 05:34 PM
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Not quite. There simply is no footage of that time period. That's rather different from four hours of footage showing nothing at all.
There is no footage of that time period because nothing happened which could have been shown. That's what "motion-activated" means.

Also, the relevant time period was 90 minutes, not "four hours".

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Or the one whose footage can be deleted with the push of a button. That one, yes.
And what evidence do you have that the jail's camera footage can be "deleted with the push of a button", or that such a thing happened? What motive did the jailers have to shut off the camera, enter the cell, and hang the woman with a grocery bag in such a way that she suffered no defensive injuries or showed any indication of a struggle? In what way is any of this more credible than asserting that the World Trade Center was secretly stuffed full of explosives?

Last edited by Smapti; 07-21-2015 at 05:35 PM.
  #5298  
Old 07-21-2015, 05:36 PM
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You can either obey the law, or suffer the consequences of breaking it. You have not established what the penalty is for violating this law or how it is enforced, so I cannot advise you as to what course of action would be better for you.
The penalty is 25 years hard labour. There is a small, but statistically significant, risk of dying in the labour camp.

But surely, the question isn't what's better for me, the question is what's the moral thing to do in the abstract? Is it more moral to obey this particular law or disobey it?
  #5299  
Old 07-21-2015, 05:37 PM
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But surely, the question isn't what's better for me, the question is what's the moral thing to do in the abstract? Is it more moral to obey this particular law or disobey it?
Neither, because there is no such thing as objective morality.
  #5300  
Old 07-21-2015, 05:39 PM
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Is there a reason folks don't make a pact not to respond to Smapti and a few other folks? Just curious. You know that'd likely drive him/her bat shit. As it stands, I think (s)he's been living every troll's daily wet dream. (It'd be one thing if there were legitimate differences of opinion involving good faith assessment of facts and information, and actual ignorance being fought.)
I've tried to stop (and failed multiple times). But Smapti is so weird that it's hard to resist responding, at least some of the time. He has opinions, but he's made the decisions that his opinions are of virtually no importance compared to his supreme philosophy, which is obey. Authority must always be obeyed, no matter what. It doesn't matter if the law told him he must fuck a little kid (to borrow JVDaly's hypothetical), even if he didn't want to fuck that little kid, he would suck it up and obey. I think it's due to some trauma -- something broke part of his mind, and without that capacity that most humans have to determine whether they think something is right or wrong aside from what the law says, he has decided that he must delegate all such decisions to the law and authority. This compulsion is so strong that it even overrides his desire to be factually correct -- hence his very frequent false statements (often very obviously made with absolutely no actual search for the facts) that just so happen to give the benefit to authority. I think it's possible that he continuously adapts the "facts" of any situation such that they will always side with authority -- so no matter what actually happened, Smapti will find a way to tell the story such that the authority figures were in the right.

It's very sad, but also very interesting. It's a damn good thing he's decided not to have children.
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