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  #501  
Old 11-08-2016, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam Lowry View Post
Does anyone have an opinion on my theory? Or am I being racist against old white guys and thinking they all look alike?

If I'm not crazy and they are the same, I'm not sure what it would mean. I'm still guessing that Ford killed Arnold, and Bernard is actually a host with Arnold's consciousness. The stuff about Arnold making young host Ford kill the dog threw me, but if someone is sabotaging things and using the bicameral mind system to operate old hosts, then it would make sense that the voice is either automatically Arnold or they know to say that it's Arnold talking. Although I have no idea who it could be doing things, or why.
Interestingly the title of Episode 10, the season finale, is The Bicameral Mind.
  #502  
Old 11-08-2016, 11:51 AM
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Good catch. Evidence that Ford is not what he seems is piling up. Seems pretty likely to me that Ford and Arnold are or were the same person. The Bicameral Mind title very strongly suggests it of someone, and Ford is the best candidate. Ford and Arnold were once one consciousness, then the proverbial "corpus callosum" was cut and now there are two independent minds that don't know what the other is thinking. Alien hand syndrome, except one hand is a body and the other is a ghost whispering to the hosts.

That, or The Bicameral Mind refers to (spoilers from 105 preview which covers the second half of the season):
SPOILER:
A hinted mutiny/rebellion/fracturing of Westworld staff. I recall some shots of armed security prowling the complex and some remarks by (Ford?) that suggested that a violent power struggle was eminent or in progress.


But I think Bernard is a human. We see him discussing his son with his wife in 103. Unless they built a host wife to maintain his backstory, that one seems like a hard sell. Even if that was true, and he's been there "forever", wouldn't other employees notice that he hasn't aged at all over ten or more years? That's assuming that the hosts don't age normally. Dolores is said to be the oldest host still operating in the park (not counting the unauthorized mechs Ford has). They mention servicing her, but there's no detail as to whether service simply means fixing injuries or if it includes undoing aging as well. Either way, I think it's more likely that Ford is a host (or a human with a fractured psyche) than it is that Bernard is a host.

ETA: I'm wondering if there's additional significance to the rule to never set Bulk Apperception above 14. Perhaps whatever happened with Arnold had something to do with setting it too high, causing either a violent host rebellion or for the affected host mind to fracture.

Last edited by oft wears hats; 11-08-2016 at 11:53 AM.
  #503  
Old 11-08-2016, 01:11 PM
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I don't think the "don't make the snuff/sex slaves too smart" rule needs a lot of backstory.

Last edited by CarnalK; 11-08-2016 at 01:12 PM.
  #504  
Old 11-08-2016, 01:48 PM
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The Asian-American lab guy was the one working on the bird, right?
Yeah, and the robot sparrow, too!
  #505  
Old 11-08-2016, 01:55 PM
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I don't think the "don't make the snuff/sex slaves too smart" rule needs a lot of backstory.
No, it doesn't, but it's still open to speculation. Why did they pick 14? Did they make some calculations and determine a theoretical safe limit, then add some margin? Or was there an incident? We already know there was at least one incident with Arnold, so it's possible that the Bulk Apperception stat figured into it. Or not. It's just a theory of mine.

If setting the stat too high is dangerous, then why would they even let the stat range go that high? Unless they set everything on a 20 point scale initially, then found out that certain stat levels were too dangerous. I would hope that a code review would catch a problem like "BA field theoretically allows hosts to achieve self awareness if set to max value". But then, they should have gone back into the code and set the actual max to 14 once they instated the "don't set BA above 14" rule. So who knows? I guess these sort of sloppiness issues don't go away just because it's a futuristic shop creating actual biological life in a post-scarcity world.

I wonder if there are minimums for each stat, or total stat points. I can't imagine that they want an "all 1s" host stumbling around the saloon, drool on his lips and dookie in his inside-out pants, freaking out the guests.

Last edited by oft wears hats; 11-08-2016 at 01:59 PM.
  #506  
Old 11-08-2016, 01:59 PM
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I can't imagine that they want an "all 1s" host stumbling around the saloon, drool on his lips and dookie in his inside-out pants, freaking out the guests.
They save those for IncestWorld.
  #507  
Old 11-08-2016, 02:01 PM
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I thought that was Game of Thrones.
  #508  
Old 11-08-2016, 02:09 PM
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No, it doesn't, but it's still open to speculation. Why did they pick 14? Did they make some calculations and determine a theoretical safe limit, then add some margin? Or was there an incident? We already know there was at least one incident with Arnold, so it's possible that the Bulk Apperception stat figured into it. Or not. It's just a theory of mine.

If setting the stat too high is dangerous, then why would they even let the stat range go that high? Unless they set everything on a 20 point scale initially, then found out that certain stat levels were too dangerous. I would hope that a code review would catch a problem like "BA field theoretically allows hosts to achieve self awareness if set to max value". But then, they should have gone back into the code and set the actual max to 14 once they instated the "don't set BA above 14" rule. So who knows? I guess these sort of sloppiness issues don't go away just because it's a futuristic shop creating actual biological life in a post-scarcity world.

I wonder if there are minimums for each stat, or total stat points. I can't imagine that they want an "all 1s" host stumbling around the saloon, drool on his lips and dookie in his inside-out pants, freaking out the guests.
I have seen nothing to suggest this company has sane software engineering practices. Not to mention that, theoretically, all the hosts are controlled by one body of people. They probably wouldn't care about hard coding a limit if they believe a small handful of responsible staff are the only ones able to touch those parameters.

Folly? Yes, but not an unbelievable one by any means.
  #509  
Old 11-08-2016, 03:23 PM
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If setting the stat too high is dangerous, then why would they even let the stat range go that high? Unless they set everything on a 20 point scale initially, then found out that certain stat levels were too dangerous. I would hope that a code review would catch a problem like "BA field theoretically allows hosts to achieve self awareness if set to max value". But then, they should have gone back into the code and set the actual max to 14 once they instated the "don't set BA above 14" rule. So who knows? I guess these sort of sloppiness issues don't go away just because it's a futuristic shop creating actual biological life in a post-scarcity world.

Did you ever see the old SNL skit about the "House Committee On Dials & Gauges" hearings?

Last edited by msmith537; 11-08-2016 at 03:24 PM.
  #510  
Old 11-08-2016, 03:55 PM
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It could be that these "hosts" are being, or at least eventually intended to be, used for stuff other than theme park robots which may require higher intelligence.

Or it could be that their brains are made so robust that the ability to be super smart is an unavoidable consequence. So I guess they could make a hard block on the setting but the ability would still be there waiting below the surface. As an anology, think of a car engine. There is no need to build a car for the North American market that can go over 70 mph - that's about the highest speed limit in the land. But if you want good acceleration you end up with an engine that's capable of high speeds. So you could put in some kind of speed limiting mechanism but if you can disable that, the car can speed.
  #511  
Old 11-08-2016, 03:59 PM
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In the most recent episode as Lutz was giving Maeve a tour of the operations, I was marveling at how complex it all was. It looked like there must be hundreds of people who work there. We haven't been told how many guests they host at once, but I doubt it's more than a hundred. So can they make this pay as a business given the amount of infrastructure involved?

And how far did Ford and Arnold get when they were trying to do this just as a partnership?
  #512  
Old 11-08-2016, 04:05 PM
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I'm pretty sure the guy with the sheet was a different Asian guy, sorry.
You are correct, so much for my memory.
  #513  
Old 11-08-2016, 04:58 PM
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So can they make this pay as a business given the amount of infrastructure involved?
It costs $40k a day per guest, so if they can keep it open year round (or just average 100 guests over the course of a year), that's $1.5B. Not a tremendous amount of cash given the necessary tech and real estate, but certainly enough to employ hundreds of people and pay for a reasonably impressive complex. Cheaper yet if some of the employees are also hosts.

Also, it may be that it was supposed to handle more guests than they've shown but the economics didn't quite work out. For all we know, there was a $100B initial investment that got written off somewhere along the line. The park just needs to pay for upkeep, not necessary pay for all of the capital costs.
  #514  
Old 11-08-2016, 05:16 PM
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I'm pretty sure this was stated fairly explicitly at one point -- Theresa said something about 1400 guests and 2000 hosts.
  #515  
Old 11-08-2016, 05:33 PM
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I'm pretty sure this was stated fairly explicitly at one point -- Theresa said something about 1400 guests and 2000 hosts.
That seems like a bad ratio. It would make it super easy for any one room/street to be majority guests. Do you remember the context or episode it was in?
  #516  
Old 11-08-2016, 05:40 PM
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That seems like a bad ratio. It would make it super easy for any one room/street to be majority guests. Do you remember the context or episode it was in?
I couldn't remember exactly, so I looked it up. Episode 1: http://www.springfieldspringfield.co...episode=s01e01

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If it's the unlikely version, how many hosts have you updated so far? Maybe 10% of the population.
All right, we pull all updated hosts until we can figure it out.
Are you fucking kidding me? That's 200 hosts spread across a dozen active storylines.
So that's 2,000 hosts.
Quote:
We have 1,400 guests in the park.
I need to know if they're in any danger.
I think Theresa, Bernard, and whats-his-face Mr. Excitable storyline guy are there.

EDIT to add: I don't think any one room or whatever being mostly hosts is really out of line. Think of how some of the guests act...like fratboys, or nervous nellies, or too drunk, or talking loudly with no accent or about website design or whatever the hell jobs there still are in the future...it would kill the immersion somewhat. Rooms full of hosts acting all Wild-Westy would help preserve the intended atmosphere, if nothing else.

Last edited by troub; 11-08-2016 at 05:44 PM.
  #517  
Old 11-08-2016, 05:46 PM
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Ha, now I see you said mostly guests. Yes, that could be bad. I guess the hosts (and the control-room people) try really hard to draw guests out on quests to disperse them to different places.
  #518  
Old 11-08-2016, 06:07 PM
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Because you said "We've already seen workers (non "hosts") in the fields who are robots." Not sure how to interpret that other than you thought they were something other than hosts.
This is an argument about terminology. I would guess from your posts that you assume "host" equals "robot (or android)", whereas I'm questioning whether the terms are intended, in the world of the show, to be synonymous.

I was using "non 'hosts'" to indicate 'androids who are doing work other than direct-guest-contact work.' The show is somewhat ambiguous in the use of its terminology referring to androids: in the episodes we've seen so far, when a term is used it's been with reference to an android that IS in direct contact with guests.

But we don't know that in the world of Westworld the word "host" is being used as a synonym for "android". It's possible that in the world of Westworld, "host" is used to refer to only to those androids that directly interact with guests. We can't tell yet because no scene so far has included dialog in which someone refers to, say, the workers in the fields. We in the audience saw that those workers were clearly not humans because they responded instantly to Ford's command (however it was conveyed)--but neither Ford nor Theresa used any particular term for them.

And there's good reason for the writers to avoid nailing that down, if the plot of the show rests (as I believe) on the questions of Who Is Human (and Who Isn't)?, and also Are Plans Being Advanced to Infiltrate The Outside World With Non-Humans?
  #519  
Old 11-08-2016, 06:27 PM
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... There was a picture that Ford showed in the earlier episode and it sounded like he was saying the other guy in the picture was Arnold. Here's the picture of young Ford. But the older guy in the cottage looks a lot like the guy in the picture, and seems to be wearing the exact same clothes. I took a screenshot of the episode.

So either there are two different actors who look pretty similar and were put in similar clothes, or Arnold made a host copy of himself for Ford's cottage, or that picture we saw earlier was Ford and either his dad or his host dad and we still haven't seen Arnold.
One more possibility: that Arnold was Ford's dad.

I suppose the possibility seems unlikely to us due to Anthony Hopkins being 78, and one doesn't always think in terms of a 78-year-old's father. But of course the numbers could work out if we're talking "thirty years ago," with Ford being mid-40s and his father Arnold being mid-60s.

The only argument against that (coming to mind now, anyway) is that when William and Logan were discussing the park they used 'two guys started it' or something similar, instead of 'a guy and his son started it.'

(Thank you for the photos--I agree that they do appear to be of the same actor in the same costume.)



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Originally Posted by oft wears hats View Post
... But I think Bernard is a human. We see him discussing his son with his wife in 103. Unless they built a host wife to maintain his backstory, that one seems like a hard sell. Even if that was true, and he's been there "forever", wouldn't other employees notice that he hasn't aged at all over ten or more years? ...
They didn't necessarily have to build a host wife. Remember, we saw him interact with a video. CGI could take care of that (and the AI-capability we know they possess could create an interactive program that would let Bernard participate in a "conversation.")

As for Bernard aging--we've seen that the hosts are now flesh-and-blood. Seems as though they would age. (And that Dolores would be youth-ified on a regular basis to keep her appealing to the guests.) Alternatively, if they don't age, Bernard could be taken into the shop (without his knowledge) and be made a bit older-looking each time.
  #520  
Old 11-09-2016, 11:20 AM
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One more possibility: that Arnold was Ford's dad.
I suppose the possibility seems unlikely to us due to Anthony Hopkins being 78, and one doesn't always think in terms of a 78-year-old's father. But of course the numbers could work out if we're talking "thirty years ago," with Ford being mid-40s and his father Arnold being mid-60s.
I was thinking the same thing. It would explain the resemblance.

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The Asian-American lab guy was the one working on the bird, right?
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Yeah, and the robot sparrow, too!
Heh, heh. I saw what you did there.
  #521  
Old 11-09-2016, 02:08 PM
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I'm sure you remember him, with the "him" being the man Ford used to be. Then Arnold, referring to "him" again. Like "the man Ford used to be", "him" and "Arnold" all being the same person.

Maybe it makes no sense, but the way the conversation is worded is a little ambiguous.
I'd have to watch the scene again, but AFAICR, there was emphasis on the word 'him' that implied a different person from the previous question. 'Do you remember the man I used to be? No? Hardly your fault. [But]* I'm sure you remember HIM. Arnold. The person who created you.'

*the 'but' was not said, but implied by the tone of voice indicating the second question was about a different person.
  #522  
Old 11-09-2016, 02:10 PM
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So can they make this pay as a business given the amount of infrastructure involved?
Logan did say to William that the place was 'hemorrhaging money', so...
  #523  
Old 11-09-2016, 02:42 PM
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I've been assuming since the start that a significant portion of their revenue stream is from the discreet sale of information about their guests. They could build one hell of a psychological profile about their regular customers. Since their regular customers would tend to be wealthy, this profile would be of great interest to any number of people, businesses, or governments.
  #524  
Old 11-09-2016, 04:55 PM
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I would hope not. If I'm paying $40,000 per day, I would expect a great deal of discretion, particularly when they encourage people to act out their fantasies, however weird, corrupt or perverted.
  #525  
Old 11-09-2016, 05:13 PM
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I've been assuming since the start that a significant portion of their revenue stream is from the discreet sale of information about their guests. They could build one hell of a psychological profile about their regular customers. Since their regular customers would tend to be wealthy, this profile would be of great interest to any number of people, businesses, or governments.
Of course, it's entirely possible that in the future, literally nobody gives a fuck if one's fantasies include roasting girl scouts on a spit - I can see this as the natural outgrowth of the current "announce all your feelings on twitter" attitude - what comprises privacy in the future is likely to be radically different from what we think of it.

It may turn out that the smuggled data is about what the guests do, in which case I'll be disappointed in the show's lack of imagination. For now, I think it more likely the data is technical in nature. Of course, even the whole "satellite uplink" concept is more elaborate than necessary, since I think it safe to assume that in the future, someone could physically smuggle out yottabytes of data on something the size of a pinhead. Feed this to a guest, let it sit in their stomach until they leave the park, then retrieve by whatever means practical.

Last edited by Bryan Ekers; 11-09-2016 at 05:18 PM.
  #526  
Old 11-09-2016, 05:52 PM
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I would hope not. If I'm paying $40,000 per day, I would expect a great deal of discretion, particularly when they encourage people to act out their fantasies, however weird, corrupt or perverted.
I never said the guests would be aware of this. That would defeat the purpose. We've seen Ford display a very controlling attitude and describe being aware of every detail of the guests' visits.

On a more general topic, the latest episode contained some very weak writing. The scene with Maeve and the two techs was poorly done and unconvincing. The techs were basically cartoon characters (especially the asshole one). One would assume they had at least some amount of intelligence in order to perform that job, yet they make truly idiotic decisions.
  #527  
Old 11-09-2016, 06:10 PM
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It could be that these "hosts" are being, or at least eventually intended to be, used for stuff other than theme park robots which may require higher intelligence.
Perhaps having the hosts working in the park and interact with guests is a way to develop the artificial intelligence in a controlled environment?
  #528  
Old 11-10-2016, 03:56 PM
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Of course, it's entirely possible that in the future, literally nobody gives a fuck if one's fantasies include roasting girl scouts on a spit
Minus 10 points for Aeden's misuse of palate/palette

Quote:
YOU
CAN I ROAST GIRL SCOUTS ON A SPIT?

AEDEN
Westworld will very literally satiate your every hunger. For every meal, you’ll have access to a variety of cuisines designed to cater every type of palette.

AEDEN
If you’d like to go the rustic route, hunting in the park is unparalleled. We will also accommodate all allergies and dietary restrictions. Satiated yet? Ask me about something else...
  #529  
Old 11-10-2016, 04:24 PM
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One more possibility: that Arnold was Ford's dad.

I suppose the possibility seems unlikely to us due to Anthony Hopkins being 78, and one doesn't always think in terms of a 78-year-old's father. But of course the numbers could work out if we're talking "thirty years ago," with Ford being mid-40s and his father Arnold being mid-60s.

The only argument against that (coming to mind now, anyway) is that when William and Logan were discussing the park they used 'two guys started it' or something similar, instead of 'a guy and his son started it.'

(Thank you for the photos--I agree that they do appear to be of the same actor in the same costume.)
Wow! I think you are right. Did Ford say that picture was of him and Arnold? Because if so, the 'dad' at the cottage looks exactly like him! And would also explain why Arnold didn't want to make the 'dad' an alcoholic as he apparently was in real life.
  #530  
Old 11-10-2016, 04:30 PM
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"Hunting in the park is unparalleled"...? Hunting of what? Vat-grown robot buffalo?
  #531  
Old 11-10-2016, 04:39 PM
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Minus 10 points for Aeden's misuse of palate/palette
Hunting? Does that mean people eat the robot animals? I guess there's no reason you couldn't,* but I hadn't thought about that possibility yet.

*Not necessarily, anyway. It is entirely possible that some element of the 3D printing process would make the flesh unpalatable or unfit for human consumption. What exactly is the white substance the printers extrude? It could be an organic matrix for stem cells (the white substance they're dipped in?) to grow in that would naturally be absorbed as the cells reproduce, but might leave traces in the meat.

ETA--Ninja'd!

Last edited by Alan Smithee; 11-10-2016 at 04:39 PM.
  #532  
Old 11-10-2016, 04:46 PM
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Oh, give me an abode
Where the buffaloes are growed
In a processed futuristicky way.
And the whores are all cleaned
In a washing machine
And I'll gladly give you forty k!
  #533  
Old 11-10-2016, 05:58 PM
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Nice.

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  #534  
Old 11-11-2016, 12:00 PM
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Oh, give me an abode
Where the buffaloes are growed
In a processed futuristicky way.
And the whores are all cleaned
In a washing machine
And I'll gladly give you forty k!
Great post, but I was wondering how the whored are cleaned. Like some sort of anti-venereal power washer?

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  #535  
Old 11-11-2016, 12:28 PM
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"Hunting in the park is unparalleled"...? Hunting of what? Vat-grown robot buffalo?
I could be mistaken, but weren't white hat/black hat eating rabbit or something at the campfire when Deloris stumbled into the campsite?
  #536  
Old 11-12-2016, 11:38 PM
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Did anyone catch the Yul Brynner robot when the black dude (I still don't know most of their names) went down to the restricted basement? It was dark and he was in the background out of focus, but the hat and the stance were quite distinctive.
Yes! I wondered if I was reading too much into it.

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Seriously. Just drop her intelligence down to 2 until they have a chance to re-group and figure something out.
Exactly my thought. They're holding the little programming tablet - she has nothing. Should be a snap.

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A super-intelligent sarcastic robot prostitute. What a great idea.
What could possibly go wrong?

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Ford having a copy of his family in host form as a gift from Arnold was so sad....
Called it! I thought the kid was a young Ford from when he first appeared.

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I noticed the Yul Brynner bot, and I also thought the way that the young Ford host opened his face was a reference to the movie, even if it wasn't done exactly the same way.
Creepy to have it blink while the face was retracted. They do something quite similar in Spielberg's A.I. Artificial Intelligence (jump to 1:33 if you're feeling impatient): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqlhYcPx4K0

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I was confused by that, it seemed in earlier episodes that Teddy came upon the massacre and was horrified, but the very quick flashback in this episode seemed like Teddy was helping Wyatt with it.
I assumed Ford, Arnold or someone else has been downloading new memories into Teddy.

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Minus 10 points for Aeden's misuse of palate/palette
Y'know, with these new Delos hosts, it's just one small step from a homonym error to a murderous robotic killspree.
  #537  
Old 11-13-2016, 07:57 AM
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Just into the second season of Person of Interest and enjoying it muchly, thanks to whoever recommended it.
  #538  
Old 11-13-2016, 10:08 PM
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Well, well, well. Bernard certainly has an interesting backstory.
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Old 11-13-2016, 10:10 PM
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"What door?"
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Old 11-13-2016, 11:05 PM
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Fuuuuuuu.....
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Old 11-14-2016, 02:19 AM
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Whelp, a lot of you called it. I don't think the game change was necessarily Deckard being a Replicant Bernard being a Host, given how widely it was predicted, but the fact that Ford is willing to kill for his vision is pretty chilling.

I'm a little sad we got zero answers about Elsie, though.
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Old 11-14-2016, 02:28 AM
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But why would Ford have programmed Bernard to discover the cabin in the first place? What was the point of that whole conversation between Ford and Bernard in the cabin last week? I know Ford likes to play with his creations, but that made no sense if everything Bernard has been doing is basically controlled by Ford anyway.

Nevertheless, I have a new theory. Ford himself is a robot, created by Arnold. Either he turned on Arnold after Arnold allowed him to get too smart (too much "bulk apperception") or (more likely, I think) he was programmed by Arnold to think that Arnold had died, while Arnold continued to live in the park as an eminence grise, perhaps even pulling Ford's strings himself.

ETA: It wouldn't surprise me if a majority (or all) of the board are themselves hosts under Arnold's and/or Ford's control, hence Ford's lack of fear.

Last edited by Alan Smithee; 11-14-2016 at 02:31 AM.
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Old 11-14-2016, 02:55 AM
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Here's an even more radical theory. Maybe every character is a robot. Maybe the entire thing is a simulation (physical? entirely virtual?) designed to test whether beings in a simulation can ever discover their true nature. Some of them (the guests, the board, the employees) know that a simulated world is possible because there is a simulation within their own world that they know about. Some of them, as of the first episode (which could be the beginning of the simulation), know or are becoming aware that they themselves are beings within this metasimulation but don't know that the larger world is also simulated. Some of them (Ford, Bernard, the techs) know or know enough to suspect that people in the "real" world could be simulated even while appearing real to themselves. Maeve even knows that she herself is simulated and that it is possible for a simulated person to become self-aware. They all have the intelligence, knowledge, motivation, and clues to "question the nature of [their] reality." And unknown beings (is Arnold one of them?) are watching and waiting to see if, having been given all of these things, any of them can discover the truth on their own, from inside the simulation, or whether it requires intervention--a revelation--from the outside.

Last edited by Alan Smithee; 11-14-2016 at 02:57 AM. Reason: "Could" autocorrected to "couldn't."
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Old 11-14-2016, 03:23 AM
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But why would Ford have programmed Bernard to discover the cabin in the first place? What was the point of that whole conversation between Ford and Bernard in the cabin last week? I know Ford likes to play with his creations, but that made no sense if everything Bernard has been doing is basically controlled by Ford anyway.
Clearly not everything Bernard does is directed by Ford. It seems like Bernard is allowed quite a lot of self-direction. Which is the point, really; Bernard was passing for human among humans. He isn't following loops, he's basically independent.
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Old 11-14-2016, 04:15 AM
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I have to admit, though, last week I was disagreeing with the "pumping up Maeve's intelligence" thing. I was willing to believe these guys were a mixture of curious, gullible, stupid, and afraid enough to go through with upping her intelligence.

This week, however, I actually shouted "YOU. HAVE. NO. LEVERAGE." at the screen when she tried to make even deeper threats.

Last edited by Jragon; 11-14-2016 at 04:15 AM.
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Old 11-14-2016, 07:39 AM
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Fantastic episode and once again Anthony Hopkins knocks it out of the park. Nobody plays villains more chillingly than this guy. Much speculation over at reddit that the MIB and William are one and the same character in different timelines. I just don't buy it. How does William go from being so head-over-heels in love with Dolores to later continually raping and killing her? It just doesn't figure.

The good news is that HBO has contracted for at least 5 seasons of the show. My only worry is how they are going to keep up the amazing standard set by the first one.
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Old 11-14-2016, 09:02 AM
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As Bernard was strangling Theresa, the camera focused on the host being created in the foreground. I wonder if this is a replication of Theresa, so that Ford can conceal his crime.
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Old 11-14-2016, 09:16 AM
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Fantastic episode and once again Anthony Hopkins knocks it out of the park. Nobody plays villains more chillingly than this guy. Much speculation over at reddit that the MIB and William are one and the same character in different timelines. I just don't buy it. How does William go from being so head-over-heels in love with Dolores to later continually raping and killing her? It just doesn't figure.

The good news is that HBO has contracted for at least 5 seasons of the show. My only worry is how they are going to keep up the amazing standard set by the first one.
We didn't actually see him rape her. Maybe there was a surprise candlelight dinner set up in the barn.

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Old 11-14-2016, 10:03 AM
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"What door?"
I got chills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
...I have a new theory. Ford himself is a robot, created by Arnold. Either he turned on Arnold after Arnold allowed him to get too smart (too much "bulk apperception") or (more likely, I think) he was programmed by Arnold to think that Arnold had died, while Arnold continued to live in the park as an eminence grise, perhaps even pulling Ford's strings himself....
Quite possible.

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Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
Here's an even more radical theory. Maybe every character is a robot....
To quote that well-known existential philosopher Keanu Reeves: "Whoa."

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Originally Posted by Shakester View Post
Clearly not everything Bernard does is directed by Ford. It seems like Bernard is allowed quite a lot of self-direction. Which is the point, really; Bernard was passing for human among humans. He isn't following loops, he's basically independent.
Certainly puts his private chats with Dolores in a new light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
As Bernard was strangling Theresa, the camera focused on the host being created in the foreground. I wonder if this is a replication of Theresa, so that Ford can conceal his crime.
I had the same thought (although I think he bashed her head in and didn't strangle her). Ford could stack the board with all sorts of host doppelgangers who will give him free rein.

I also wonder if Ford, if still human, is working on or perhaps has already perfected a way to download his consciousness into a host. Potentially eternal life and eternal control.

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We didn't actually see him rape her. Maybe there was a surprise candlelight dinner set up in the barn....
Y'know, I've found that my dates don't appreciate being dragged by the hair to surprise candlelight dinners. Go figure.
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Old 11-14-2016, 10:09 AM
Dewey Finn is offline
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Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
Nevertheless, I have a new theory. Ford himself is a robot, created by Arnold. Either he turned on Arnold after Arnold allowed him to get too smart (too much "bulk apperception") or (more likely, I think) he was programmed by Arnold to think that Arnold had died, while Arnold continued to live in the park as an eminence grise, perhaps even pulling Ford's strings himself.
There's a photo shown in an earlier episode of Ford and Arnold. Assuming that Arnold is the one on the right, the one on the left has his arms out in a stiff manner, almost like Frankenstein's monster in the movies. It's been suggested that this was Ford, when he was less natural in his movements.
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