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  #651  
Old 09-26-2019, 01:47 PM
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I think a note of caution is in order. This is not for everybody. The right wing bubble is designed to suck people into their way of thinking. Too much exposure could cause permanent political realignment. Too many guys start watching Fox or listening to Limbaugh, Savage, and the like and before they know it, they develop immunity to factual information and critical analysis.
There is a documentary called The Brainwashing of My Dad that chronicles this very phenomenon. The director's father was a Democrat. The family moved and the father then had a long commute to work during which he began listening to Rush Limbaugh. Eventually he transformed into a rabid right-winger.
  #652  
Old 09-26-2019, 01:47 PM
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If my own interest in this story is any indicator of its significance, I haven't been this riveted in checking/updating my own various online news sources in months. Maybe not since the 2018 midterm election.
  #653  
Old 09-26-2019, 01:47 PM
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Here's the thing with Deutsche Bank: They were fined $10 billion in a Russian money-laundering scheme only a couple years ago and there are still charges swirling around them today which involve Jared Kushner. Trump actually sued the bank in 2008 when he was unable to make payments on a loan (which is of course how anyone who cannot pay off a loan handles it) and when nobody else would loan Trump money, why would the bank that he had already defaulted on and sued still do so?

There's a lot of unexplained things going on with that relationship. It will be interesting to see how they are explained.
This is the beginning of Trump being Vlad's patsy.

It is also why Biden shouldn't be the Democrat's nominee.
  #654  
Old 09-26-2019, 01:47 PM
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Honesty, dishonesty, integrity, constitutionality-none of this is even on the table when it comes to Trump supporters. Trump's ability to hold onto the power is their only concern.
  #655  
Old 09-26-2019, 01:48 PM
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If my own interest in this story is any indicator of its significance, I haven't been this riveted in checking/updating my own various online news sources in months. Maybe not since the 2018 midterm election.
My productivity has gone to hell just following this thread the last three days!
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  #656  
Old 09-26-2019, 01:50 PM
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Do what I do. Go to the FoxNews and Breitbart websites, open the outhouse door, stick your head down the hole (metaphor: comments sections), and take a big whiff.

I do this a couple times a week as I believe it strengthens the lungs (metaphor: gives me insight into the wingnuts).
I do too and would say that it equally crushes the spirit.
  #657  
Old 09-26-2019, 01:52 PM
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My productivity has gone to hell just following this thread the last three days!
Tell me about it! I literally just now wrote a post-it on my work computer monitor: “NO MORE STRAIGHT DOPE OR TRUMP STUFF UNTIL AFTER OCT. 1”.

Okay — see y’all in a few days —
  #658  
Old 09-26-2019, 01:54 PM
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I do too and would say that it equally crushes the spirit.
It doesn't so much crush my spirit as make me sad. I come away from it wondering just how stupid do you have to be, to believe what they are selling. My family, my friends, my coworkers.
  #659  
Old 09-26-2019, 01:58 PM
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Indeed; that is actually quoted in the whistleblower complaint on page 2, footnote 1.
Cool. I haven't had a chance to read it yet. Busy morning.
  #660  
Old 09-26-2019, 01:58 PM
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So, is Trump threatening the life and freedom of the whistle blower's source when he says:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trump
“I want to know who’s the person who gave the whistle-blower the information because that’s close to a spy,” Mr. Trump said. “You know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart with spies and treason, right? We used to handle it a little differently than we do now.”
Seems like witness tampering to me -- can we add that to the list? Also, treason? Mr. Trump, HurricaneDitka has a bone to pick with you.
  #661  
Old 09-26-2019, 01:59 PM
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As pointed out by Micah Cohen over at Fivethirtyeight, a poll that actually give information about the impeachment process gives the following result:

With the question: “Impeachment is the first step in the process of removing a president from office. Do you think the House of Representatives should impeach President Trump?” 45 percent said yes; 30 percent said no.

When the question was phrased around starting an impeachment inquiry, it got a bit more support. SurveyMonkey asked, “Do you believe launching a formal impeachment inquiry into President Trump for soliciting foreign interference in a US election is the right thing to do?” And a majority (53 percent) said either “definitely yes” (33 percent) or “probably yes” (20 percent).

Also worth noting that a lot of the "no's" were saying no because they were worried about Democratic tactics backfiring (i.e. a lot of those no's were disagreeing on the best tactic for getting rid of the president, not actually supporting him).
  #662  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:00 PM
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Tell me about it! I literally just now wrote a post-it on my work computer monitor: “NO MORE STRAIGHT DOPE OR TRUMP STUFF UNTIL AFTER OCT. 1”.

Okay — see y’all in a few days —
"Trump stuff" auto corrects to "Butt stuff" in my brain.
  #663  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:03 PM
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So, is Trump threatening the life and freedom of the whistle blower's source when he says:



Seems like witness tampering to me -- can we add that to the list? Also, treason? Mr. Trump, HurricaneDitka has a bone to pick with you.
Jesus.

Trump really is nothing more than a third rate mob boss.

I guess his next plan is to rub out squealers and stool pigeons.
  #664  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:05 PM
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Do what I do. Go to the FoxNews and Breitbart websites, open the outhouse door, stick your head down the hole (metaphor: comments sections), and take a big whiff.
All I can say is, thanks for taking one for the team. Repeatedly.
  #665  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:06 PM
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For the Trump supporters, I guess I'll just ask this -- if it were shown to your satisfaction that Trump really did expect the investigation into Biden in exchange for the aid to Ukraine, would you support impeachment?
It doesn't cost them anything to say "yes" to this, because they'll just set the bar of proof as high as they need to. "Trump signed a notarized statement confirming that he knowingly committed high treason? Where was that notary born? Have we seen the birth certificate? COVER-UP! Why isn't the FBI investigating that??"
  #666  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:07 PM
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It doesn't cost them anything to say "yes" to this, because they'll just set the bar of proof as high as they need to. "Trump signed a notarized statement confirming that he knowingly committed high treason? Where was that notary born? Have we seen the birth certificate? COVER-UP! Why isn't the FBI investigating that??"
Sure, but that actually would cost them some credibility. At some point it gets ridiculous (it already has, in many ways).
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Old 09-26-2019, 02:09 PM
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"Trump stuff" auto corrects to "Butt stuff" in my brain.
Best username/post combo of the day.
  #668  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:14 PM
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Sure, but that actually would cost them some credibility. At some point it gets ridiculous (it already has, in many ways).
There is nothing.... NOTHING that could be too ridiculous for hard core Trumpers to support.

They would swear on their mother's grave that Adam Schiff was a shape shifting lizard person from a far away planet who is intent on destroying humanity. And only Trump can stop him.

AND THEY'D BELIEVE IT.
  #669  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:24 PM
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Remember when Trump, on national TV, asked Russia to interfere in the election, and they started sending phishing emails to the DNC the next day? I'm beginning to think that wasn't an isolated incident. Maybe, and I know this is crazy, Trump has routinely sought electoral assistance from foreign countries. Wouldn't that be insane?
  #670  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:26 PM
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This is the beginning of Trump being Vlad's patsy.

It is also why Biden shouldn't be the Democrat's nominee.
Like I said before, I detest Trump. But without getting into the weeds, it is easy to say, "Wait a minure! What was Biden's SON doing that was worth THAT MUCH money to Ukraine?"

I'm comfortable that this is just yet another instance of how "who you know" is of primary importance, and that added wealth goes to the already wealthy (in influence and status if not $). But sweetheart deals to the relatives of elected officials carries a whiff of stank, which I could imagine might rub off on Joe.
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  #671  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:28 PM
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This is the beginning of Trump being Vlad's patsy.

It is also why Biden shouldn't be the Democrat's nominee.
I don’t believe Biden acted corruptly with Ukraine, but if this mess puts a cloud over his campaign that ends up taking him out of the race, I won’t be upset.
  #672  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:30 PM
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For the Trump supporters, I guess I'll just ask this -- if it were shown to your satisfaction that Trump really did expect the investigation into Biden in exchange for the aid to Ukraine, would you support impeachment?
Probably not. It looks like there's some shady shit that went on with the Biden boys in Ukraine, and I think it should be investigated thoroughly (you guys do support investigations, right?). I don't mind President Trump using his position to make sure the truth is brought to light.

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I am guessing that none of them can imagine any circumstance under which they would support impeachment. Seriously, if what has come out in the past week would not be enough, if investigation reveals it to be accurate, then what would convince them?

So in addition to the question andy asked, I'll ask this: is there anything that you can conceive of that would make you support impeachment? Is he fallible in any way, or is his every move perfect by definition?
Yes, there are plenty of things that I could imagine that would make me support this impeachment. Here are some examples: earlier on in this thread, President Trump's request to Ukraine was characterized as a request "to manufacture dirt" on Biden. There were various other posts that suggested Trump had asked Ukraine to make stuff up / lie about Biden's Ukranian activities. I don't see any evidence to support those claims, but if it became clear that he had asked them "to manufacture dirt" rather than just investigate and find the truth of the matter, I would support impeachment.

Likewise, there have been a long-running series of accusations against President Trump that he's doing Russia's bidding / controlled by Putin / etc. They are, as of now, unsubstantiated. If, however, it became clear that these accusations were in fact correct, I would support impeachment and removal from office.

I'm sure there are a ton of other scenarios that would find me supporting his impeachment, but I find it helpful to put it in terms of things you guys have claimed, without proof. If you could prove some of those things, then you'd really have something.

Also, even though I think the question is moronic, I'll go ahead and answer it: Of course he's "fallible" and makes mistakes.
  #673  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:33 PM
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I don’t believe Biden acted corruptly with Ukraine, but if this mess puts a cloud over his campaign that ends up taking him out of the race, I won’t be upset.
Neither will I, even though months ago I made a prediction when he officially entered the race, that despite his initial lead he would fade like he always does. That is, he would have faded just on general "Biden-ness". But now it will be next to impossible to see how much he fades because of this phony "scandal". And thus my brilliance will go unrecognized, assuming he does collapse.


ETA: I mean of course I won't be upset that someone else gets the nomination. It is absolutely infuriating to me that scum like Giuliani and Trump could get away with this. I simply cannot understand the mindset of someone who can attempt to ruin another person like this.

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  #674  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:35 PM
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Probably not. It looks like there's some shady shit that went on with the Biden boys in Ukraine, and I think it should be investigated thoroughly (you guys do support investigations, right?). I don't mind President Trump using his position to make sure the truth is brought to light.
I really wish someone would point out the exact "shady shit". Truly I do. Because I haven't seen shit. Maybe you?
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Old 09-26-2019, 02:36 PM
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I will join the chorus in hoping (as I have since the beginning of the primary) that Biden drops out of the race. I've seen no evidence of a big scandal that might push this, though.

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  #676  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:37 PM
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Like I said before, I detest Trump. But without getting into the weeds, it is easy to say, "Wait a minure! What was Biden's SON doing that was worth THAT MUCH money to Ukraine?"

I'm comfortable that this is just yet another instance of how "who you know" is of primary importance, and that added wealth goes to the already wealthy (in influence and status if not $). But sweetheart deals to the relatives of elected officials carries a whiff of stank, which I could imagine might rub off on Joe.
Yeah, I'm not seeing any way Joe Biden is connected to any wrongdoing here. Clearly, Hunter Biden took a job for which he had no qualifications, and should have realized that he was being hired only because his sleazy employers thought he could illegitimately leverage his personal relationship with VPOTUS to their advantage. It's poor judgment and bad optics, for sure.

But AFAIK there are no credible allegations that Hunter did in fact attempt to manipulate Joe, much less that he succeeded in doing so, much, much less that Joe knowingly cooperated with said manipulation.

So there's no real reason this should hurt Joe, but having your name constantly in the headlines alongside words like "Corruption" and "Scandal" isn't good for a politician, because a lot of people just read the headlines.
  #677  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:38 PM
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Yes.

And I thought yesterday - I would not be at all surprised if at some point, Trump issues orders to have one or more of his "enemies" assassinated. And I just hope that whoever gets these orders reports this to as many people as possible, as fast as possible.

I would not have thought this some months ago, but Trump is, I believe, currently that unhinged.
Go ahead and add this to the list of things I'd support impeachment & removal over, once again IF there was proof / compelling evidence of it.
  #678  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:39 PM
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Probably not. It looks like there's some shady shit that went on with the Biden boys in Ukraine, and I think it should be investigated thoroughly (you guys do support investigations, right?). I don't mind President Trump using his position to make sure the truth is brought to light.
Investigations are fine, but investigations based on crackpot misunderstandings of basic facts (eg, Obama is a seekrit Muslim) ruin the credibility of those who seek them.

Trump seems to have zero understanding of anything Ukraine, so calling for an investigation on the basis that he’s too stupid and filled with 4chan conspiracy theories is not a reasonable proposition.

Besides, the motivation for the investigation appears to be entirely political. If Trump were serious about cleaning up corruption in Ukraine, he shouldn’t say that Manafort was mistreated (and apparently tried to undermine that investigation).
  #679  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:40 PM
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I'm not surprised that some Trump supporters are fine with trading foreign aid money for foreign political aid meant to harm Trump's political rivals... but it's a teeny-tiny surprise that they'll admit it so readily.
  #680  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:40 PM
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Like I said before, I detest Trump. But without getting into the weeds, it is easy to say, "Wait a minure! What was Biden's SON doing that was worth THAT MUCH money to Ukraine?"
...
And if you're Trump, you don't bring your concerns to the FBI. You wait until you have some leverage, use it against Ukraine, and see if they'll look into it instead. And keep it on the down low, OK?
  #681  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:42 PM
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If Trump shoots someone on 5th Ave, certain media outlets are going to run with headlines like:


"Democrat seen in area of Trump disturbance in New York"

and

"What did Biden know? Questions are being asked."
  #682  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:43 PM
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I really wish someone would point out the exact "shady shit". Truly I do. Because I haven't seen shit. Maybe you?
I think Dinsdale did an admirable job of pointing it out (#670). I agree with Thing Fish (#676) that no proof of a crime has been definitively established yet, but I think it needs to be investigated, thoroughly. There's already a discrepancy between Joe and Hunter about how many times they discussed Hunter's Ukrainian business dealings.
  #683  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:45 PM
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Probably not. It looks like there's some shady shit that went on with the Biden boys in Ukraine, and I think it should be investigated thoroughly (you guys do support investigations, right?). I don't mind President Trump using his position to make sure the truth is brought to light.



Yes, there are plenty of things that I could imagine that would make me support this impeachment. Here are some examples: earlier on in this thread, President Trump's request to Ukraine was characterized as a request "to manufacture dirt" on Biden. There were various other posts that suggested Trump had asked Ukraine to make stuff up / lie about Biden's Ukranian activities. I don't see any evidence to support those claims, but if it became clear that he had asked them "to manufacture dirt" rather than just investigate and find the truth of the matter, I would support impeachment.

Likewise, there have been a long-running series of accusations against President Trump that he's doing Russia's bidding / controlled by Putin / etc. They are, as of now, unsubstantiated. If, however, it became clear that these accusations were in fact correct, I would support impeachment and removal from office.

I'm sure there are a ton of other scenarios that would find me supporting his impeachment, but I find it helpful to put it in terms of things you guys have claimed, without proof. If you could prove some of those things, then you'd really have something.

Also, even though I think the question is moronic, I'll go ahead and answer it: Of course he's "fallible" and makes mistakes.
Good post. However the sentence "I don't mind President Trump using his position to make sure the truth is brought to light." leads me to believe that you just don't get it. Trump, truth, and light are don't belong in the same sentence.
  #684  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:46 PM
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... Besides, the motivation for the investigation appears to be entirely political. ...
Shoe's on the other foot now. That's how Republicans feel about virtually all the investigations the dems have been calling for / pursuing for the past couple of years.
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Old 09-26-2019, 02:50 PM
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I'm not surprised that some Trump supporters are fine with trading foreign aid money for foreign political aid meant to harm Trump's political rivals... but it's a teeny-tiny surprise that they'll admit it so readily.
They have learned that there is no consequence in doing so, and they are reveling in that knowledge. Once you dispose of soul and shame, anything short of actual punishment is none of their concern.
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Old 09-26-2019, 02:50 PM
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Let me throw this out there and see what people think. I've mentioned it once, but didn't get much of a response.

Joe Biden was essentially Obama's proxy vis a vis Ukraine. He had, as I understand it, a certain amount of autonomy there, but ultimately was there to carry out Obama's policies. So in brief, what the fuck would Obama care about Hunter Biden, and the fact that his chances of profiting off of his Dad's name might be threatened unless he, Obama, took some kind of action? Why would Obama risk his reputation in this way? I am acutely aware that the whole story is nuts, and doesn't really deserve talking about. But it seems to me at least once, some pundit on CNN or MSNBC or wherever, would raise this question. Is this a reasonable thing to expect? Am I missing something here?
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Old 09-26-2019, 02:50 PM
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Probably not. It looks like there's some shady shit that went on with the Biden boys in Ukraine, and I think it should be investigated thoroughly (you guys do support investigations, right?). I don't mind President Trump using his position to make sure the truth is brought to light.
Whatever shady shit the Biden boys may or may not have been up to, it's to laugh to think that this call had anything to do with that.

No, whatever small potatoes shenanigans you think should be investigated sound like a fine job for some low level employee at the state department. None of these things should happen:

1) Trump himself should not be involved, because of the potential conflict of interest. Ethics 101.

2) Trump should not be using his limited personal time for legitimate diplomacy on such a trivial case.

3) Trump himself should not be withholding congressional mandated financial aid in order to force action from a foreign government on a minor corruption case.

4) Trump should not be directing the AG of the United-fricking-States to make this a priority, when there are much more pressing domestic issues on his plate.

5) Trump should not be involving his personal lawyer! Can I repeat this one enough? Like, what the fuck, mate? How are you defending this?


This is why the Biden angle is a distraction, and a pathetic one at that. For one, it ignores the actual truth, which is that Trump really doesn't give 2 shits about Ukranian corruption and was clearly doing this for personal benefit. And for two, it would only replace criminal behavior with criminal incompetence as a public servant and the President of the US.

Last edited by steronz; 09-26-2019 at 02:51 PM.
  #688  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:50 PM
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How about applying some pressure on the Kenyan government to "investigate" Obama's fake birth certificate? I'm sure there is some financial aid package that could be held up until they dig into this very important scandal.

I've heard talk about Nancy Pelosi being involved in some kind of scheme in the middle east. People are talking about it. Perhaps Trump could hold up military aid to Israel and then call up Netanyahu to let him know that the US does a lot for Israel and does not get a lot back. Oh, and it would be great if Netanyahu could do Trump a favor, and look into these Pelosi allegations that everyone is talking about... Just do a really, REALLY thorough investigation.

These would be OK, because the president would just be doing his duty, and following up on serious matters that need investigating.
  #689  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:51 PM
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Shoe's on the other foot now. That's how Republicans feel about virtually all the investigations the dems have been calling for / pursuing for the past couple of years.
Oversight of the Executive branch is the Constitutional duty of the Legislative branch. How Republicans "feel" about that is completely irrelevant.

Did you have these same concerns about all of the investigations into Obama during his 8 years? (which yielded nothing I might add)
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  #690  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:52 PM
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earlier on in this thread, President Trump's request to Ukraine was characterized as a request "to manufacture dirt" on Biden. There were various other posts that suggested Trump had asked Ukraine to make stuff up / lie about Biden's Ukranian activities. I don't see any evidence to support those claims, but if it became clear that he had asked them "to manufacture dirt" rather than just investigate and find the truth of the matter, I would support impeachment.
Manufacturing dirt is straight out of the Trump Campaign playbook :
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The RNC is “going to make whoever the nominee is radioactive well before they get the nomination,” a former campaign official told Axios. “That’s Trump’s strategy. Stay at 45-46% [in the polls] and just make the other guy radioactive.”
  #691  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:52 PM
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And if you're Trump, you don't bring your concerns to the FBI. You wait until you have some leverage, use it against Ukraine, and see if they'll look into it instead. And keep it on the down low, OK?
No one's keeping anything "on the down low". The Bidens' shady Ukrainian dealings have been known for months. They've been discussed in some major media outlets.

In the fucking "transcript", Zelenskyy said "I guarantee as the President of Ukraine that all the investigations will be done openly and candidly. That I can assure you." President Trump's next word was "Good".
  #692  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:54 PM
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The White House kept the records of this call, and other calls they felt might be damaging to Trump, "on the down low" (i.e. improperly filing them in a classified server meant to house national-security related documents), according to the whistle-blower complaint.

It doesn't take much thought to realize why they might have done this, if the complaint is accurate.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 09-26-2019 at 02:54 PM.
  #693  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:55 PM
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I think Dinsdale did an admirable job of pointing it out (#670). I agree with Thing Fish (#676) that no proof of a crime has been definitively established yet, but I think it needs to be investigated, thoroughly. There's already a discrepancy between Joe and Hunter about how many times they discussed Hunter's Ukrainian business dealings.
Hunter Biden should not have put himself in a possible conflict of interest like this re his father. No doubt. If that alone is the "shady shit" you are referring to, fine. The implication seems that there was more than this. But let's be real. This kind of thing happens all the time. It's not illegal to profit off of your name. So, got anything else? Any other reason that an investigation should happen? That you are not just calling for a fishing expedition?

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 09-26-2019 at 02:59 PM.
  #694  
Old 09-26-2019, 02:59 PM
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It looks like there's some shady shit that went on with the Biden boys in Ukraine
Moderator's Voice: There isn't.

Quote:
and I think it should be investigated thoroughly (you guys do support investigations, right?)
Moderator's Voice: It has.

But even if they weren't, the appropriate way to handle this is to ask the FBI to investigate. Not to ask the Ukraine to do anything about it even if he didn't happen to be lording over hundreds of millions of dollars. Or send his private lawyer and the US Attorney General to work with them. Or to ask them to look into bonkers conspiracy theories for that matter.

Hell, that was what got Chuck Todd to at least temporarily override his penchant for bothsiderism when he took Sen. John Kennedy to task:
Quote:
“It’s hard to believe the concern about Hunter Biden by some of these folks making this case,” Todd responded. “If they were so serious about this, I’m trying to figure out why nobody from the FBI has been contacted. Not a single person.”

“I don’t understand why Rudy Giuliani thinks it’s better to investigate an American by outsourcing it to a country that apparently they also didn’t trust,” the Meet the Press host added. “Do you see why I’m skeptical that the Hunter Biden stuff is really that serious? If they were serious about it, you go to the FBI, you don’t go to an oligarch in Ukraine.”
  #695  
Old 09-26-2019, 03:01 PM
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What more do you need?


HD #672,

If the government of the US has information that requires an investigation of the Biden family then the appropriate branch of the government should do so. That is very different than a US President trading our foreign aid $$$ to slander a political opponent. And, Trump did not ask that the Ukraine invent anything. All Zelensky would have to do is say he is opening an investigation of Biden based on an alleged offense that was previously invented by a political opponent of Zelensky.

The President has admitted to the offense and provided written evidence to back it up. He offered to trade US aid for the reopening of a bogus investigation of a political opponent. This is all covered in the President's transcript and the whistleblower's complaint.

Last edited by Crane; 09-26-2019 at 03:05 PM.
  #696  
Old 09-26-2019, 03:07 PM
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That is indeed a good point. If anyone in government thought that the Bidens were breaking the law, then the proper thing to do would be to refer it to US law enforcement agencies to investigate. AFAICT, this hasn't been done (or if it's been done, nothing has been found and/or reported).

On the other hand, if one was only interested in political damage to a rival, then law enforcement agencies would be useless (barring actual illegal activity).

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 09-26-2019 at 03:08 PM.
  #697  
Old 09-26-2019, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiddle Peghead View Post
Hunter Biden should not have put himself in a possible conflict of interest like this re his father. No doubt. If that alone is the "shady shit" you are referring to, fine. The implication seems that there was more than this. But let's be real. This kind of thing happens all the time. It's not illegal to profit off of your name. So, got anything else? Any other reason that an investigation should happen? That you are not just calling for a fishing expedition?
Yes, Joe Biden pushed HARD for the firing of the prosecutor overseeing the investigation of his son's company. "If true", that makes it an official act of corruption on Joe Biden's part. We should investigate to let the truth of the matter come to light.
  #698  
Old 09-26-2019, 03:08 PM
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Look, while I appreciate that many here are looking for HurricaneDitka to have a "come to Jesus" moment, there is zero way this happens. He is convinced that Trump can do no wrong, and even an admission from Trump that he did do wrong is met with contortions. And pinning him down on what it would take is useless - he'll just move goalposts or say "that's not what happened" just as he can deny what actually happened in that phone call that Trump admitted to doing.

This thread will be great for sharing updates on the impeachment. But I humbly suggest that we not waste our time trying to get HurricaneDitka to believe anything and spend even less time caring when he inevitably doesn't.

Last edited by John_Stamos'_Left_Ear; 09-26-2019 at 03:09 PM.
  #699  
Old 09-26-2019, 03:11 PM
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The talk of impeachment is raising a lot of money for the D's and R's alike:

https://theweek.com/speedreads/86777...t-announcement
  #700  
Old 09-26-2019, 03:12 PM
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Hell, that was what got Chuck Todd to at least temporarily override his penchant for bothsiderism when he took Sen. John Kennedy to task:
I walked in on the end of that and couldn't believe my ears, that Todd was actually standing up to someone for once. The surprise wore off when I realized he was on MSNBC and not "Meet the Press", where he always has to keep in mind his audience doesn't consist of just liberals and progressives. I'll still watch MtP, but it can get pretty infuriating.
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