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  #1  
Old 07-06-2019, 08:30 PM
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The Little Mermaid is GASP! Black


I guess I missed this one in the culture wars, or entertainment news, or something.

There's seems to be a small backlash about Disney's choice of an African-American teenage actress to play Ariel in the live-action remake of The Little Mermaid.

My daughter saw comments about this on Twitter, some of which were reposts from Reddit. Among the comments she saw was a long scientific explanation of how mermaids live under the sea, where there isn't much light, so their bodies can't produce enough melanin for their skin to be dark.

To which someone replied, "So what color is the crab?"

And someone else responded, "If you're mad that the Little Mermaid isn't white, wait until you find out about Jesus."

Natually a few people also explained scientifically that THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A MERMAID AND EVERYTHING IS MADE UP.
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Old 07-06-2019, 08:34 PM
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heh im waiting to see the reaction in frozen 2 where elsa might get a princess charming instead of the normal .....
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Old 07-06-2019, 08:41 PM
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I've heard there actually are people complaining that the upcoming live-action remake of Mulan has not cast any non-Asian actors.
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Old 07-06-2019, 08:47 PM
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[QUOTE=Kent Clark;21735813My daughter saw comments about this on Twitter, some of which were reposts from Reddit. Among the comments she saw was a long scientific explanation of how mermaids live under the sea, where there isn't much light, so their bodies can't produce enough melanin for their skin to be dark.[/QUOTE]
And that's why there aren't any sea creatures with black skin. Or brown skin.


Another complaint is from red-haired girls who say they will lose on out representation. Evidently, once the new film is released, a hole will open in the space-time continuum and suck in all copies of the animated feature and erase it from human memory.
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Old 07-06-2019, 10:09 PM
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heh im waiting to see the reaction in frozen 2 where elsa might get a princess charming instead of the normal .....
Or the opposite: apparently there's a movement on the internet "Give Elsa a Girlfriend". (Or at least, there was)

Wasn't the mermaid green in the book?
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Old 07-06-2019, 11:06 PM
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What I get is a sense of a bunch of entitled fanboys needing a quick refresher on trademark ownership. (Andersen's The Little Mermaid is in the Public Domain. Ariel the Mermaid is a Trademark of Disney Corp and the movie in which the character appears is under Disney copyright until almost the end of this century)

Didn't hear them complain much about how all the prior Disney fairytale versions thoroughly upend the Andersen/Grimm/Perrault originals

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Wasn't the mermaid green in the book?
Sez Hans Christian Andersen: "The Sea King had been a widower for many years, and his aged mother kept house for him. She was a very wise woman, and exceedingly proud of her high birth; on that account she wore twelve oysters on her tail; while others, also of high rank, were only allowed to wear six. She was, however, deserving of very great praise, especially for her care of the little sea-princesses, her grand-daughters. They were six beautiful children; but the youngest was the prettiest of them all; her skin was as clear and delicate as a rose-leaf, and her eyes as blue as the deepest sea; but, like all the others, she had no feet, and her body ended in a fish’s tail."

Last edited by JRDelirious; 07-06-2019 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 07-07-2019, 02:00 AM
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I've heard there actually are people complaining that the upcoming live-action remake of Mulan has not cast any non-Asian actors.
With Disney's track record the upcoming Mulan live-action remake is going to have an all-black cast.
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Old 07-07-2019, 05:21 AM
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Under the sea
Under the sea
Out of the water
Ariel's darker
Live in 3D
Disney pandering to the races
Change the color of the faces
Lot's of explaining
Alt Right complaining
Under the sea!
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Old 07-07-2019, 06:03 AM
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In the original story she DIES. They Disney animation has a happy ending. No one said anything. Now they want to complain the change of skin colour is an unacceptable alteration. ��
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Old 07-07-2019, 06:39 AM
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Another complaint is from red-haired girls who say they will lose on out representation
There are two redhead Disney princesses out of 12 in total. That's 8-16 x their occurunce in the population. I'd say they're already way overrepresented.
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Old 07-07-2019, 06:45 AM
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In the original story she DIES. They Disney animation has a happy ending. No one said anything. Now they want to complain the change of skin colour is an unacceptable alteration. ��
Well, no, she doesn't die, really. She turns to sea foam and becomes a spirit, given the opportunity to redeem herself and earn an immortal soul. Like being an undead creature, but a good one, I guess.
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Old 07-07-2019, 06:47 AM
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I guess my only question will be, and I obviously haven't cared enough to look up who is cast for the part, what skin color her father the Sea King will have (and her various sisters). I see no reason that Ariel cannot have dark skin and hair. I just hope that she has a really good voice, as that was the only knock I had against the live 3D version of Belle.
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Old 07-07-2019, 06:55 AM
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Apparently there were already people noticing a trend of redhead characters being replaced by black characters. (Also, oops!)



Quote:
Originally Posted by msmith537 View Post
Under the sea
Under the sea
Out of the water
Ariel's darker
Live in 3D
Disney pandering to the races
Change the color of the faces
Lot's of explaining
Alt Right complaining
Under the sea!

Look at this girl, isn't she black?

Don't you think that this casting is wack?
Don't you think that the blacks--the blacks ruin everything?
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Old 07-07-2019, 06:55 AM
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In all fairness, I haven't seen many of the other live action adaptations. Ariel could be played by a Chinese jet pilot for all I care.



It has nothing to do with being faithful to the source material. Ariel, Elsa, Cinderella, Snow White, Jasmine and all the other princesses have only a passing resemblance to their source material, if the characters appeared at all.

It's more about Disney being faithful to their own characters they created.
Emma Watson looks like a live action Belle
Lilly James looks like a live action Cinderella
Angelina Jolie looks like a live action Maleficent
I'm sure live action Mulan will be played by a young Chinese woman who looks like Mulan.

All I'm saying is that for 30 years, Ariel was a light-skinned red headed mermaid with the face of Alyssa Milano. So hearing they cast a black girl to play Ariel does sound like someone in marketing is checking off PC boxes.
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Old 07-07-2019, 07:01 AM
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Well, no, she doesn't die, really. She turns to sea foam and becomes a spirit, given the opportunity to redeem herself and earn an immortal soul. Like being an undead creature, but a good one, I guess.
Lots of people go on to live fulfilling lives as sea foam.


Darren Garrison - Truly a disturbing trend
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Old 07-07-2019, 07:05 AM
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I just hope that she has a really good voice, as that was the only knock I had against the live 3D version of Belle.

She is a famous (apparently? I'm old--I never heard of her) singer already.
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Old 07-07-2019, 07:22 AM
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I just hope that she has a really good voice.
Do not worry on that front.
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Old 07-07-2019, 07:31 AM
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So hearing they cast a black girl to play Ariel does sound like someone in marketing is checking off PC boxes.
One person's "checking off PC boxes" is another person's "addressing diversity". For some character translations race matters, for others there is room to manoeuvre and those opportunities should be taken advantage of.

What so many people see as Political Correctness Gone Mad, others see as an attempt at correcting a path so as to be more inclusive. Soon enough this will become second nature and nobody will even notice, and that's where things need to be headed; a conscious effort until it becomes an unconscious one.
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Old 07-07-2019, 08:22 AM
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My daughter saw comments about this on Twitter, some of which were reposts from Reddit. Among the comments she saw was a long scientific explanation of how mermaids live under the sea, where there isn't much light, so their bodies can't produce enough melanin for their skin to be dark.
Umm, given that mermaids appear to be capable of breathing air and are amphibious, it seems like they would spend a lot of time at the surface. Never mind the fact that given they have human upper bodies, they are clearly very close genetic relatives of humans.

So, well, maybe their nearest common ancestors to humans had the genes for high melanin. And they spent a lot of time near the surface. You know, if they were real.

Though this does raise an interesting point - would black people have light skin if they spent all of their time indoors? I'm pretty sure the answer is no, that it's a more complex set of genetic differences than merely more melanin, but am open to be wrong...

Last edited by SamuelA; 07-07-2019 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 07-07-2019, 08:59 AM
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One person's "checking off PC boxes" is another person's "addressing diversity". For some character translations race matters, for others there is room to manoeuvre and those opportunities should be taken advantage of.

What so many people see as Political Correctness Gone Mad, others see as an attempt at correcting a path so as to be more inclusive. Soon enough this will become second nature and nobody will even notice, and that's where things need to be headed; a conscious effort until it becomes an unconscious one.
Creating Disney Princess characters like Mulan, Jasmine, Tiana, Moana and (I think) Pocahontas that are a cultural departure from the traditional white, pseudo-European aristocratic stories of Belle, Snow White, Cinderella, Rapunzel, Aurora, Anna and Elsa is "correcting a path to be more inclusive". Retroactively changing one of the character's race feels like a PC marketing ploy.
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Old 07-07-2019, 09:24 AM
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You know, I posted this so everyone could have a good laugh. I see some posts where my mother would have commented, "Oh for crying out loud," and which the Internet generation has compressed to OFFS.

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Originally Posted by JRDelirious View Post
Sez Hans Christian Andersen:
<snip>
They were six beautiful children; but the youngest was the prettiest of them all; her skin was as clear and delicate as a rose-leaf, and her eyes as blue as the deepest sea..."
Given the creator's own description, Ariel could have been played by Vanessa Williams.

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It's more about Disney being faithful to their own characters they created.
Emma Watson looks like a live action Belle
Lilly James looks like a live action Cinderella
Angelina Jolie looks like a live action Maleficent
I'm sure live action Mulan will be played by a young Chinese woman who looks like Mulan.

All I'm saying is that for 30 years, Ariel was a light-skinned red headed mermaid with the face of Alyssa Milano. So hearing they cast a black girl to play Ariel does sound like someone in marketing is checking off PC boxes.
Here's a look at the characters in Disney's animated version of Aladdin.

And here they are in the live action reboot.

OMG! They cast a skinny, black, wise-cracking guy to play a non-human, large, blue, wise-cracking cloud. PC run amuck! Much worse than casting a young, black actress to play a young, non-human half-fish.

Would we all feel better if Halle Bailey's hair were dyed red?

Last edited by Kent Clark; 07-07-2019 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 07-07-2019, 09:25 AM
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Retroactively changing one of the character's race feels like a PC marketing ploy.
Well, her race has not been changed. She remains a mermaid.
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:00 AM
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Don't know if it will be good or not, but if they change her bottom half from carp to tuna!!!!
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent Clark;21736315Here's a look at the characters in [URL="https://d1w8cc2yygc27j.cloudfront.net/-8469318901123307323/-7551723423067384179.jpg"
Disney's animated version of Aladdin.
[/URL]
And here they are in the live action reboot.

OMG! They cast a skinny, black, wise-cracking guy to play a non-human, large, blue, wise-cracking cloud. PC run amuck!
But he played it in blueface. What if Disney cast an African American actress, and lightened her skin and changed her hair color?


I think msmith537 had a good point: in previous live adaptations, like Beauty and the Beast, they were pretty faithful to the way the characters looked in the cartoon.

Thanks to the original animated feature (plus decades of spinoffs and merchandizing), people have a very specific idea in their minds of what Ariel looks like; and some people have trouble wrapping their brain around a version of the character that doesn't match that.

(For the record, I'm not saying that Disney shouldn't have cast a black Ariel; just that I have at least a little bit of sympathy and understanding for some of the people who are bothered by it.)
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:13 AM
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The complaints are about casting a Black actress, when they really should be "Why the fuck are they making a live-action version"?

Casting a black actress may or may not be a cynical money-making move, but making the film in the first place is a far more egregious example of cashing in for the bucks.
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:13 AM
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Didn't hear them complain much about how all the prior Disney fairytale versions thoroughly upend the Andersen/Grimm/Perrault originals
Huh? People have smugly talked about Disney-ifcation of classic fairy tales and stories for as long as I've been aware of them. And they've probably been doing it since 1937 with Snow White. "Ya know, in the REAL story, a hunter brings the Queen a boar's liver and says it's Snow White's. Then the Queen eats it. Didn't see THAT in this cartoon..."
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:16 AM
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The complaints are about casting a Black actress, when they really should be "Why the fuck are they making a live-action version"?
Because when they've done so before, it has been successful (i.e. made money).
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:20 AM
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Apparently there were already people noticing a trend of redhead characters being replaced by black characters.
The forgot Red in Shawshank Redemption.
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:29 AM
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But he played it in blueface.
Did you see it? Smith was in blueface for significantly less than half his screen time.
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:40 AM
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The complaints are about casting a Black actress, when they really should be "Why the fuck are they making a live-action version"?
Because people keeps going to watch them.

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Casting a black actress may or may not be a cynical money-making move,
Not really. If anything this will cost them the so profitable China market. A more well-established actress of any race would have been the way to go if that's all they wanted with the casting.

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but making the film in the first place is a far more egregious example of cashing in for the bucks.
Yeah. Show Business is still a business.
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:44 AM
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Yeah. Show Business is still a business.
Indeed. It's a little late to be outraged that Disney is trying to make money using business strategies that generally make them money.

If there's a problem with Disney's business model (and I think there is, but I'm a confirmed pinko), it goes much, much deeper than their current focus on remaking cartoons with real people.
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:46 AM
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Did you see it? Smith was in blueface for significantly less than half his screen time.
Yes I did. When he was (blue), he was to me recognizably a live-action realization of the Genie from the cartoon.

(Anyone wishing further discussion of the Aladdin Genie's color may want to read these articles I stumbled across while searching for a good image to link to:

The Racial Wonderland of Aladdin’s Genie

Why Is the Genie in ‘Aladdin’ Blue?)
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Old 07-07-2019, 11:11 AM
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Huh? People have smugly talked about Disney-ifcation of classic fairy tales and stories for as long as I've been aware of them. And they've probably been doing it since 1937 with Snow White. "Ya know, in the REAL story, a hunter brings the Queen a boar's liver and says it's Snow White's. Then the Queen eats it. Didn't see THAT in this cartoon..."
But that has been basically book nerds like us calling attention to it and being ignored and told to lighten up, this not your book it's is a fun movie for kids with a happy ending the way Disney does it. The people pulling out their hair on Reddit and the memespace over nonwhite Ariel apparently don't want to be told "this is not your animation, it's a movie by Disney and they decide how to make it".

Last edited by JRDelirious; 07-07-2019 at 11:11 AM.
  #34  
Old 07-07-2019, 12:12 PM
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Wait a second. I have a more important question. Are they going to make the live-action Ariel's tail swish around like the animated Ariel? Because everyone knows that live action mermaids' tails only flex in one spot.
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Old 07-07-2019, 12:30 PM
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1) Internet rage is inversely proportional to the stakes of the matter.
2) The story is a metaphor for crossing rifts and dealing with foreigness. While, granted, in this day and age it shouldn't really be any sort of rift between white and black people, that's not the reality of the modern world. It probably is relatively good casting symbolically.
3) Traditionally, red heads represented tempestuous Irish folk. Given that that is no longer a thing in modern culture, replacing all the red heads with African Americans may make sense.
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Old 07-07-2019, 01:34 PM
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Yes I did. When he was (blue), he was to me recognizably a live-action realization of the Genie from the cartoon.
Okay--I'm not trying to be difficult, but I'm not sure what you were getting at, then. My point was that for most of the movie, Will Smith appeared as a black man, a definite change from the original movie.

If the animated Little Mermaid were green-skinned, and they cast an African American actress but changed her skin tone to green for significant sections of the movie, I don't think anyone would have a problem with it, and then it'd be analogous to Aladdin.
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Old 07-07-2019, 01:49 PM
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I'm sure live action Mulan will be played by a young Chinese woman who looks like Mulan.

Well, youngish. But approaching middle age. The character is 16, the actress is 31. The trailer, to me, looks kind of like a trainwreck.
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Old 07-07-2019, 02:29 PM
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Creating Disney Princess characters like Mulan, Jasmine, Tiana, Moana and (I think) Pocahontas that are a cultural departure from the traditional white, pseudo-European aristocratic stories of Belle, Snow White, Cinderella, Rapunzel, Aurora, Anna and Elsa is "correcting a path to be more inclusive". Retroactively changing one of the character's race feels like a PC marketing ploy.
I'm black, and I agree with this. I think it's fine to have more black characters, but why not make them new and original.

For example, I was 12 when I saw ROTJ in the theater. I didn't think I couldn't be Luke because he was white and I wasn't.


I'm not even really sure how they figure more money will be made. The last I looked we are only about 14% of the US population. That is clearly not enough to offset all those that won't see the film because of this change. I just don't get it.
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Old 07-07-2019, 02:49 PM
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I'm not even really sure how they figure more money will be made. The last I looked we are only about 14% of the US population. That is clearly not enough to offset all those that won't see the film because of this change. I just don't get it.
Think how much of the world population is peoples of color and there's one possible answer. Which however is not determinative, I mean in my Puerto Rican social nets the black Ariel is grinding some people's gears to the point I worry about them.

Although yes, I agree the best way to make the princessphere more universal and inclusive is to bring in more stories with heroines and princesses from other cultures and peoples. There are plenty of other love and/or adventure stories around the world we can use. Or even go to some yet-unused western story and relocate it elsewhere.

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Well, youngish. But approaching middle age. The character is 16, the actress is 31. The trailer, to me, looks kind of like a trainwreck.
And of course a bunch of commenters on the trailer are going "hur hur why not make her white Dizney lol I'm so smart".


...and 31 is "approaching middle age"??? Say wha???

(though that is itself a recurring tcasting theme in TV/film, "teenagers" pushing 30)

Last edited by JRDelirious; 07-07-2019 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 07-07-2019, 02:55 PM
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So she's changed from Ariel to Ariel Black.

She's still the same type.
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Old 07-07-2019, 02:58 PM
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*gropes around for rotten fish to throw at Duckster*
  #42  
Old 07-07-2019, 03:07 PM
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The Little Mermaid is a Caribbean-themed musical. Ariel's kingdom is in a tropical coral reef. She has a Jamaican-accented crab friend.

Unless that specific part of the Caribbean is made up of a community of expats, or is set on a Sandals resort, that all of the characters were white in the first place seems like the anomaly being corrected here.
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Old 07-07-2019, 03:10 PM
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I'm not even really sure how they figure more money will be made. The last I looked we are only about 14% of the US population. That is clearly not enough to offset all those that won't see the film because of this change. I just don't get it.
How many people would even be talking about this movie if isn’t wasn’t because of a black Ariel? That alone will help box office attendance.

Last edited by you with the face; 07-07-2019 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 07-07-2019, 03:12 PM
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The trailer, to me, looks kind of like a trainwreck.
Did they just toss the whole "Has to pretend she's a man to enlist in the Imperial army" thing?
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:54 PM
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I'm a little disappointed I won't get to see my favorite Disney princess live as envisioned. However, it appears young miss Bailey has the looks, persona, and voice to play a good Ariel. It'd be hard for anyone to live up to Jodi Benson and Glen Keane.

I wish Halle Bailey and the entire production luck. So far every live action Disney remake has been lacking.
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Old 07-07-2019, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by you with the face View Post
How many people would even be talking about this movie if isn’t wasn’t because of a black Ariel? That alone will help box office attendance.
You keep stealing my points .

This thread is one long advertisement for their new movie, which otherwise we wouldn't be talking about.

Except that's not true, because if we weren't talking about it for this reason, we'd be talking about it for another reason that Disney's marketing geniuses had cooked up.

Anyone who thinks they know how to market children's movies better than fucking Disney is deluding themselves. They know exactly what they're doing.
  #47  
Old 07-07-2019, 11:22 PM
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I'm a little disappointed I won't get to see my favorite Disney princess live as envisioned.
Well, you were never going to get any live-action Ariel whose bust measurement was more than twice her waist measurement, or whose huge arched eyes were more than twice as big as her nose, or who was actually a half-fish who could breathe and talk and sing underwater. There's no live actress who would genuinely resemble cartoon-Ariel in most of her physical characteristics.

The fact that skin tone seems so much more salient to many white Americans than almost any other physical characteristic when it comes to people "looking different" is mostly down to cultural conditioning.
  #48  
Old 07-07-2019, 11:44 PM
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Well, you were never going to get any live-action Ariel whose bust measurement was more than twice her waist measurement, or whose huge arched eyes were more than twice as big as her nose, or who was actually a half-fish who could breathe and talk and sing underwater. There's no live actress who would genuinely resemble cartoon-Ariel in most of her physical characteristics.
You must never have seen any pictures of people who practice tightlacing daily. The "world record" is a 15 inch waist (38cm). From that point, a doubled bust measurement isn't terribly difficult (nor is dyeing your hair red).

Not to say that it's recommended nor healthy nor will land you any guys who aren't really creepy.
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Old 07-07-2019, 11:52 PM
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You must never have seen any pictures of people who practice tightlacing daily.
Indeed I have, but AFAIK none of them are actress/singers who have any even faintly realistic chance of playing Ariel in a live-action Disney movie.
  #50  
Old 07-08-2019, 12:13 AM
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Actually, the original mermaid was kind of gray. Or maybe it was black.
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