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Old 05-16-2019, 10:53 PM
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"colic" basically means, "the baby cries, you can't figure out why, but the doctor says the kids is healthy and you shouldn't worry".

Is there some underlying medical reason? Probably. But if you can neither diagnose it nor treat it, and if the kid will grow out of it, then you just chalk it up to "the baby is crying because". It's pretty stressful for all concerned, though.
  #52  
Old 05-16-2019, 11:49 PM
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I swear, at some point, something broke in me. Maybe it was having my own kids. But, I go out to eat ALL THE TIME. Always once, often twice, sometimes 3 times a day. You know what? If there are screaming kids, I don't notice them, ever. Like I can't remember a time in the last 20 years where I noticed and was subsequently annoyed by a screaming child. Maybe it's my superpower. Maybe I should have studies done on me with hopefully minimal dissection so the can come up with a miracle drug.
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:33 AM
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I think the fact that I had babies makes me hyper aware of babies crying in places of business. It's the Mom thing. If I'm walking through a store and I hear a kid say Mama or Mom I naturally look toward the voice. If I hear distressed crying baby I begin to get anxious. I want to help the distressed infant. A laughing child, being goodnatured and happy is ok with me. But, I do notice.

Last edited by Beckdawrek; 05-17-2019 at 12:35 AM.
  #54  
Old 05-17-2019, 01:22 AM
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Empathy, which ought to have allowed you to take up at least some of the tot's joy, sours instead into a flavor narcissism that makes it reasonable to assume the rest of the world owes you a wide and reverent berth, even when you go out in public.
Interesting how those minding their own business and minimizing the annoyance for others are supposed to be 'empathetic' for those that can't quite seem to be able to do the same simple actions. Any yet we are the narcissists for not calling attention to ourselves! heh.
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Old 05-17-2019, 04:58 AM
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Interesting how those minding their own business and minimizing the annoyance for others are supposed to be 'empathetic' for those that can't quite seem to be able to do the same simple actions. Any yet we are the narcissists for not calling attention to ourselves! heh.
Exactly. Being called a possible narcissist by people I respect on my favorite Message Board did, I admit, particularly hurt my feelings, much more than the screaming did. I truly don't know what I could've done differently to alleviate this situation other than not posting this thread to let others know how I felt.

Letting someone know how I feel is always a bad idea in my world.
  #56  
Old 05-17-2019, 07:50 AM
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Exactly. Being called a possible narcissist by people I respect on my favorite Message Board did, I admit, particularly hurt my feelings, much more than the screaming did. I truly don't know what I could've done differently to alleviate this situation other than not posting this thread to let others know how I felt.

Letting someone know how I feel is always a bad idea in my world.
I wouldn't take it too seriously. It happens to all of us, yanno?
I do have to ask though, what did you expect to happen?
It's almost a trope around here that the boards skew older. How you could not know that many of us are parents or at least guess that, I don't know. Finally, have you never realized what a pack of circling sharks we all are? You jumped in "flailing and bleeding" like an injured sea lion.
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  #57  
Old 05-17-2019, 07:58 AM
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I wouldn't take it too seriously. It happens to all of us, yanno?
I do have to ask though, what did you expect to happen?
It's almost a trope around here that the boards skew older. How you could not know that many of us are parents or at least guess that, I don't know. Finally, have you never realized what a pack of circling sharks we all are? You jumped in "flailing and bleeding" like an injured sea lion.
Yes, like I said, letting others know how I feel is always a bad idea.

Because this is the type of response I usually get from others, not just on this board, but everywhere.

Which is why my days are usually so crappy.
  #58  
Old 05-17-2019, 08:21 AM
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Interesting how those minding their own business and minimizing the annoyance for others are supposed to be 'empathetic' for those that can't quite seem to be able to do the same simple actions. Any yet we are the narcissists for not calling attention to ourselves! heh.
Don't be so disingenuous. Narcissism is an attitude that may or may not be expressed outwardly. But what would you call it when you go out into the world and expect everyone to comport themselves according to your mood? Kid was enjoying her ice cream, dad wasn't stuffing socks in her mouth to keep the silent stranger happy. But in case you are genuinely bemused, yes: minimizing unintentional annoyance begins with a look inward before you go imposing your will on the nondestructive behaviors of others.
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:32 AM
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Don't be so disingenuous. Narcissism is an attitude that may or may not be expressed outwardly. But what would you call it when you go out into the world and expect everyone to comport themselves according to your mood? Kid was enjoying her ice cream, dad wasn't stuffing socks in her mouth to keep the silent stranger happy. But in case you are genuinely bemused, yes: minimizing unintentional annoyance begins with a look inward before you go imposing your will on the nondestructive behaviors of others.
So embrace the shrieking. A path to enlightenment.
  #60  
Old 05-17-2019, 08:44 AM
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So embrace the shrieking. A path to enlightenment.
While you're at it, here, try snatching this pebble from my hand.
  #61  
Old 05-17-2019, 08:50 AM
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While you're at it, here, try snatching this pebble from my hand.
That's not a pebble.....EEEEWWWWWW
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:00 AM
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That's not a pebble.....EEEEWWWWWW
No, my other hand.
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:16 AM
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No, my other hand.
I would....but....the....sl.ow...m..o..tion....is......sttaarrrtinnggggg...(low gong sound)
  #64  
Old 05-17-2019, 09:20 AM
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So embrace the shrieking. A path to enlightenment.
Well, sometimes. Thanks for having a sense of humor about it. My intent was not to stick a label on you or to find other fault, I was just saying the scene you painted is one I struggled with for a long time until I figured out what was going on in my head. If that's not you, then fantastic.
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  #65  
Old 05-17-2019, 09:33 AM
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Well, sometimes. Thanks for having a sense of humor about it. My intent was not to stick a label on you or to find other fault, I was just saying the scene you painted is one I struggled with for a long time until I figured out what was going on in my head. If that's not you, then fantastic.
And for the record, I understand that kids shriek when they're happy. But I also understand that asking them not to shriek is not the same as stuffing socks in their mouths. Just sayin'.
  #66  
Old 05-17-2019, 11:00 AM
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And for the record, I understand that kids shriek when they're happy. But I also understand that asking them not to shriek is not the same as stuffing socks in their mouths. Just sayin'.
Of course it isn't. It's also not unreasonable to expect adults to at least make an attempt to mitigate their child's behavior. It may or may not work (it sure as hell worked on me) but I think some of the bad will would be eased if you'd had your feelings of annoyance validated.
  #67  
Old 05-17-2019, 11:13 AM
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Standard advice. If you want to discourage attention-seeking behaviour, ignore it. Responding to it reinforces it. Intermittently responding to it reinforces it more strongly.

You can't reason a toddler into silence or quietness. Toddler don't respond to reason.

Adults should, though. So here's some reasoning; you want to avoid the company of toddlers, maybe stay away from icecream parlours?
Sure, ignoring unreasonable behaviour is often a good strategy. As a father of a 5 year-old, I have often employed this. But it's best used in private. When out in public, IMHO, considering others who are present should trump sticking to a rigid parenting regime. If my kid acts up in a restaurant or other public place, while personally I might prefer to ignore their tantrum until it burns itself out, that's not fair to everyone else.

Also, as already pointed out, you certainly can reason with a toddler - maybe not a 2-year-old, but I'd say most 3-year-olds can grasp basic reasoning in certain situations. It's well worth trying if they are in the right frame of mind. Reverse psychology is the obvious example ("I hope you're going to save some of that cabbage for me!") - a form of logical reasoning.

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I can imagine the day for the dad went something like this. He started his day at 6 am, when his daughter woke up. Children don't always sleep in on weekends. They had breakfast and his child talked non-stop, even while eating. She told him everything that was happening, how much she enjoyed breakfast, her hopes and dreams, what her imaginary friend was doing, etc. while he listened and engaged intently. They ran their errands and she behaved nicely (while still talking) so Dad decided she deserved some ice cream. Also, at this point, Dad is really craving some conversation that is not about what his daughter's imaginary friend was doing. So he let her have her ice cream while he got some of the human interaction he needed.

Should he have handled it better? Maybe. But guess what, ain't none of us perfect and we are all just trying our best.
You might be right, but as reported I'm not convinced the dad was trying his best in this situation. What you describe is called 'parenting' - it's just how it is. As a parent I totally understand the need to switch off from it sometimes. That's what babysitters are for.

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I swear, at some point, something broke in me. Maybe it was having my own kids. But, I go out to eat ALL THE TIME. Always once, often twice, sometimes 3 times a day. You know what? If there are screaming kids, I don't notice them, ever. Like I can't remember a time in the last 20 years where I noticed and was subsequently annoyed by a screaming child. Maybe it's my superpower. Maybe I should have studies done on me with hopefully minimal dissection so the can come up with a miracle drug.
Since having kids, I almost enjoy hearing other peoples' kids screaming - because it means mine are being relatively well-behaved. That doesn't mean I switch off to my own kids though.

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Yes, like I said, letting others know how I feel is always a bad idea.

Because this is the type of response I usually get from others, not just on this board, but everywhere.

Which is why my days are usually so crappy.
Ah, ignore the haters. You posted a well-reasoned, rational rant (if that isn't a contradiction in terms), which was obviously about the behaviour of the parent, not the kid. Sorry it ruined your ice cream. Not all parents are so thoughtless (though goodness knows I'm far from perfect). I think my kids making a fuss in public is one of my hot buttons though - it really stresses me out.
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Old 05-17-2019, 11:14 AM
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You know what else is ruined by the shrieking??? The beach, that's what. I'm convinced Jaws has come ashore. It's no longer relaxing.
  #69  
Old 05-17-2019, 11:29 AM
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You know what else is ruined by the shrieking??? The beach, that's what. I'm convinced Jaws has come ashore. It's no longer relaxing.
If Jaws is coming ashore, it's evolving, not relaxing.
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Old 05-17-2019, 01:02 PM
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Of course it isn't. It's also not unreasonable to expect adults to at least make an attempt to mitigate their child's behavior. It may or may not work (it sure as hell worked on me) but I think some of the bad will would be eased if you'd had your feelings of annoyance validated.
THANK you.
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Old 05-17-2019, 01:13 PM
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If you can't stand the sound of little kids making joyful noise, maybe an ice cream parlor wasn't the place to go, especially if you were having an extra crappy day.

Just a thought.
Got it in... not one, but close.
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Old 05-17-2019, 01:40 PM
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Got it in... not one, but close.
And again, why is an (upscale) ice cream parlor an appropriate place for children to have absolutely no boundaries? Unlike Chucky Cheese or a Disney movie or something, I don't consider it a place designated primarily for children. It would never occur to me to avoid Baskin Robbins because I'd be likely to run across an overly excited child. Hell, I worked at one for over a year and I don't recall an exceptional amount of misbehaving kids.
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Old 05-17-2019, 04:59 PM
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Even in Chuck E Cheese or a Disney movie, I expect kids to not act like fucking animals. Joyful exuberance is not not the same as screeching balls of menacing, walking headaches.

It's not really the kids' fault. I don't often see parents of the disruptive pay attention to the kids. It's like a little switch goes on in their brains: I've taken Junior here to have fun. My job is now done.

But it's not done. You have to ask your child to be quiet when s/he screams or to pick a mess up off the floor or to stop running (in the wrong places, of course. Not like the park). I see too many parents just playing on their phones or talking to their friends. And I get it. You need adult time. You need your kid to be doing their own thing and not need constant supervision while at the same time not be staring at your own four walls all the time. But I'm with my kid who is behaving and I'd like to not have to be on extra alert because I have to watch out for your nightmare or can't hear my kid because your kid is the loudest person to ever exist and you can't stop texting to say "That's nice. Indoor voice, dear."
  #74  
Old 05-17-2019, 08:11 PM
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I'm sorry, and I no doubt sounded crass, but kids are kids. ...
This is one of my least favorite memes - most often trotted out by the parents of kids who are behaving inappropriately for a given situation. IMO&E, an adjective is generally helpful. Well-behaved kids are well-behaved kids. Selfish kids will be selfish kids. Loud kids lacking an awareness of how to act in public spaces are - well, you get the drift.

Now a happy kid in an ice cream shop is close to certain boundaries - but those boundaries CAN be crossed. No matter HOW much the kid likes their ice cream, I see no harm (and considerable benefit) in a parent telling them at some point that they can express their joy a little quieter, or less repetitively.

But I have always been a strong advocate of kids understanding "inside voices" from a very young age, and I was the crazy parent who removed my child from the store, restaurant, train car, etc. when they were unable to behave in a manner that did not discomfort others. Worked with my kids, works with my granddaughter. It CAN work with most kids. But some parents don't feel it important, and that their kid's unthinking urge to express themself however they want takes priority over anyone else's enjoyment of public spaces.
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:50 PM
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This is one of my least favorite memes - most often trotted out by the parents of kids who are behaving inappropriately for a given situation. IMO&E, an adjective is generally helpful. Well-behaved kids are well-behaved kids. Selfish kids will be selfish kids. Loud kids lacking an awareness of how to act in public spaces are - well, you get the drift.

Now a happy kid in an ice cream shop is close to certain boundaries - but those boundaries CAN be crossed. No matter HOW much the kid likes their ice cream, I see no harm (and considerable benefit) in a parent telling them at some point that they can express their joy a little quieter, or less repetitively.

But I have always been a strong advocate of kids understanding "inside voices" from a very young age, and I was the crazy parent who removed my child from the store, restaurant, train car, etc. when they were unable to behave in a manner that did not discomfort others. Worked with my kids, works with my granddaughter. It CAN work with most kids. But some parents don't feel it important, and that their kid's unthinking urge to express themself however they want takes priority over anyone else's enjoyment of public spaces.
Happy kids. Let's ban them.
  #76  
Old 05-17-2019, 09:02 PM
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Don't be so disingenuous. Narcissism is an attitude that may or may not be expressed outwardly.
If it is never expressed then does it really matter to the rest of us, does it?

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But what would you call it when you go out into the world and expect everyone to comport themselves according to your mood?
Expecting and wanting are two different things.

Quote:
But in case you are genuinely bemused, yes: minimizing unintentional annoyance begins with a look inward before you go imposing your will on the nondestructive behaviors of others.
The OP didn't impose their will on anyone. The only one doing that was the kid and the father neglecting his duty to others in the store.

Possible solution: Kids in the Hall - Head Crusher
  #77  
Old 05-17-2019, 09:07 PM
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Happy kids. Let's ban them.
They shoot horses, don't they?
  #78  
Old 05-18-2019, 10:35 AM
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"My God, this four year old doesn't act with the understanding of someone 10 times her age, and it's PISSING ME OFF!" is not a good look for anyone, even if you divert your irritation to the parent(s).
  #79  
Old 05-18-2019, 04:23 PM
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A few years ago when I was waiting to check in my car at Sears, there was a little girl, about 6-8 years old sitting in a massage chair and yelling: "OMG! This feels so good! Mommy! OMG! This is amazing", in an adult tone. The Mom turned back once to acknowledge her, than completely ignored her, while the little girl went for several minutes. Some of the other people in line where obviously annoyed and disturbed (umm...this wasn't a kid's tone) and others were smiling and taking pictures. Me? I was contemplating calling CPS.
  #80  
Old 05-19-2019, 12:45 PM
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I just ate my sundae and let the shrieks go through me like a knife. Was I supposed to enjoy my consoling treat being ruined?



Haha “treat”? Who is the child in this scenario?


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