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  #401  
Old 03-20-2019, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Tired and Cranky View Post
Maybe I'm gullible but I believe Moviepass thought the data mining was a viable business model. Google and Facebook get all their revenue from data mining to sell ads. I think Moviepass thought their app would get so much targeted location data about a specialized, lucrative market, that they could sell enough ads and data to close their losses on ticket sales. This was naive. Their app gives them only a tiny percentage of the profile data that Facebook and Google have about their users and Moviepass would never have been real competition for either.

There's no way that data can be more valuable than the price of the ticket. Take a more extreme example of this. If Chevy gave away cars, any car you want and any configuration you want, they would gain a lot of practical marketing data about what people want in a car. But they'd also be giving away an average amount of $50,000 per car or whatever. There's no way that the marketing data could possibly be worth the $50,000 they're giving away to each person.

Similarly, a piece of data like what movie a person would like to see, where, and what time is worth something - but almost certainly less than a few cents per movie. But they're paying out $10 per movie for that information. Could they create an accurate model of the movie viewer behavior and maybe add a little value to the raw data? Sure, but even if their sophisticated model made the data worth 10x more, you're still talking about maybe ten cents worth of data for every $10 they pay out in movie tickets.

Facebook has way more marketing data than just people's movie preferences, with thousands of data points on frequent users, but they can still only monetize their users to the tune of a few tens of dollars a year. If someone is seeing 3 movies a month at $10 each, moviepass is losing $20 per month per user, or $240 per user per year. There's no way that the person's movie viewing habits are worth anywhere near that much. All the facebook data collected on users, thousands of data points, aren't worth near that much.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 03-20-2019 at 05:17 PM.
  #402  
Old 03-20-2019, 05:42 PM
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So then, what is their business model? They were around for a while before they switched to the $10 unlimited plan, but by that point I sincerely believe their business model was to be a scam on investors. We're not used to seeing this, because almost all scams the average person sees are targeted towards end users.

There are lots of internet companies that gets a lot of user base first, before actually monetizing their product or implementing a business model, and lose a lot of money in the process. But this is looked at as a normal strategy that sometimes creates a powerhouse. So when moviepass came to them, that was their pitch. Let's get a massive userbase first, then we'll figure out how to monetize. And they told investors about big data and user base and multiple potential revenue streams that were all pretty much bullshit, and gained a few billion in venture capital.

But there was always the possibility that some idiot investor group would see this as the big new internet business thing and try to take it off their hands and buy it from them. They would've loved that. They'd have cashed out ran taken the money and ran.

They used the investor capital used to lose money for months and months, but slowly growing their user base. But they were expected to start generating their revenue streams - kickbacks from movie theaters, discount tickets, selling their data, whatever. The movie theaters, realizing that moviepass was destined to lose money and go away, and not really needing them, didn't play ball. They were just either going to wait out moviepass, or make their own competitor that was better (AMC's a-list). But it was a good time to be a moviepass customer. For the first year, the service did what they said it did. You really could see whatever movies you wanted for $10/month. You were going to the movies for super cheap on the venture capitalists' money.

At that point, the investment started to dry up. Moviepass started doing some funky stuff with their stocks with splits and reverse splits and other stuff, but the gig was up, and their stock value dropped 99%+. At that point, they just desperately tried to stay alive. About a year after the $10 unlimited plan, they started limiting the movies they'd pay for by about 95%. People would see "no listings in your area" when they looked at the moviepass app. They were giving out maybe a few hundred tickets a day. If you showed up at 10am when the theater opened you could grab a ticket, but if you were a little late, even if moviepass still said tickets were available, they'd make the app detect where you are and suddenly run out of tickets right as you got to the theater. It became a scummy quest to deny people the ability to see movies, make up lies about technical problems they were having, and basically begging people not to unsubscribed, that it would be fixed and good again.

And... that's basically where we've been for 6-7 months now. They keep promising new plans and a big new moviepass. Sign up for this version of moviepass, sign up for that version. Buy a prepaid year at a good price. But use a bank ACH transfer for this, not your credit card, because it's a lot harder to reverse a bank ACH transfer.

What was once a grand plan to scam investors for billions, became a scam just to keep moviepass operating for another month so that they could give themselves paychecks from the few remaining users while denying them the service they're paying for just enough to stay alive. I'm amazed that they somehow managed to do that for 7 months now. I can only imagine most of their remaining user base are people who just haven't bothered to cancel because they barely notice the $10 or $15 a month and just haven't bothered to cancel - sort of like the gym model - but rarely see movies and hopes it gets better.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 03-20-2019 at 05:46 PM.
  #403  
Old 03-21-2019, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
So then, what is their business model? They were around for a while before they switched to the $10 unlimited plan, but by that point I sincerely believe their business model was to be a scam on investors.
Agreed. Selling for below costs to grow marketshare with an eventual plan to increase prices is a semi-common business plan lately. Uber and Lyft, for example, are doing this. Rides are sold below cost and the investors are making up the difference.

But usually they at least have a semi-plausible explanation for turning it around someday. Uber thinks they can reduce their costs by getting rid of drivers and improving operational efficiency. I don't know if they'll make it, but their plan at least sort of passes the laugh test.

Moviepass has none of that. There's no operational efficiency to gain. They were selling at like 70+% below cost and never had any hope except throwing around pure market power, which is a really bad play to make when it's clear its your only play.

Which really makes me wonder: When they got those investors to pony up the $millions they burned, what lies did they tell them?

Last edited by iamthewalrus(:3=; 03-21-2019 at 11:48 AM.
  #404  
Old 03-21-2019, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by iamthewalrus(:3= View Post
Uber thinks they can reduce their costs by getting rid of drivers and improving operational efficiency. I don't know if they'll make it, but their plan at least sort of passes the laugh test.
I think Uber also plans to raise prices, as people get used to using the service, and as traditional taxi companies are driven out of business.

On the other hand, I don't ever see Moviepass making it work.

Last edited by Dewey Finn; 03-21-2019 at 11:59 AM.
  #405  
Old 04-18-2019, 05:11 PM
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MoviePass has dropped from over 3 million subscribers to about 225,000, according to internal data obtained by Business Insider.

This is the latest sign of the collapse of the movie-ticket-subscription startup, which became an overnight sensation in the summer of 2017, when it drastically dropped its price to $10 a month (to see one movie a day in theaters). The plan proved so popular that MoviePass passed 3 million subscribers by June 2018, the company said. But the startup struggled to control its cash burn, which reached into the hundreds of millions of dollars.
https://www.businessinsider.com/movi...rs-data-2019-4
  #406  
Old 06-16-2019, 04:28 PM
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I thought MoviePass had died a quiet death. But then just yesterday, the lady in line behind me at the box office used hers. Any here still milking that cow? We gave ours up months ago.
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  #407  
Old 06-16-2019, 04:40 PM
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How in the world are they still dragging along? They've been a scam on the customer for almost a year now (and a scam on investors for longer than that). I was sure they'd be dead any day a long time ago.

I looked around a bit and I guess Regal is opening their own A-list style movie subscription. I would totally get A-list if I had any AMC theaters near me. There's only one regal one and it's not my preferred one. I miss going to the movies more often, but I'm not willing to pay $13 a ticket more than once every couple of months.
  #408  
Old 07-05-2019, 02:36 PM
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MoviePass shuts down--for "several weeks."
  #409  
Old 07-05-2019, 02:41 PM
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I have no idea how it has gone on this long. They've basically been running on no money for a year.
  #410  
Old 07-05-2019, 02:47 PM
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Any unlimited service where the user only has to use it *once* per month to come out ahead is destined to fail, especially something as simple to do and popular as going to the movies. The owners had to have known this, and had to have accepted it as a loss leader, looking to make money elsewhere, but no idea what that would have been. Surely they didn't think that movie studios were going to partner with them, as many have suggested?

Even water parks that are a hassle to go to price their season pass to where it needs to be used two or three times for the customer to come out ahead, and then they have food and drinks they can sell to pass holders, Moviepass got nothing from concession sales, and how could they- that's pretty much the only way the actual theaters make money, I don't see them sharing that with Moviepass.

Last edited by Helmut Doork; 07-05-2019 at 02:47 PM.
  #411  
Old 07-05-2019, 03:13 PM
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As a computer person, this all makes perfect sense. Not!

Good grief.
  #412  
Old 07-05-2019, 06:17 PM
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MoviePass, the long-embattled film subscription service, has shut down for “several weeks” in order to complete work on an updated version of its app and to recapitalize for when the service relaunches. “There’s never a good time to have to do this,” MoviePass CEO Mitch Lowe said in a statement, “but to complete the improved version of our app, one that we believe will provide a much better experience for our subscribers, it has to be done.” Lowe’s statement promised “an enhanced technology platform, which is in the final stages of completion,” in the upcoming app.

The service shut down on July 4th at 5AM ET, and MoviePass has not announced when it will come back online.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/5/20...e-recapitalize
  #413  
Old 07-05-2019, 06:54 PM
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I think it's awesome that we have two threads about the exact same thing, with both being updated with this new information: Moviepass.
  #414  
Old 07-05-2019, 06:56 PM
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I guess it's so no one will miss out that we have two threads about the exact same thing: Looking for opinions and information on Movie Pass.
  #415  
Old 07-05-2019, 07:25 PM
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I think it's awesome that we have two threads about the exact same thing, with both being updated with this new information: Moviepass.
Must be hard to keep track of two separate threads. Maybe you should lie down.
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  #416  
Old 07-05-2019, 07:25 PM
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nm

Last edited by PastTense; 07-05-2019 at 07:26 PM.
  #417  
Old 07-06-2019, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Darren Garrison View Post
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“There’s never a good time to have to do this,” MoviePass CEO Mitch Lowe said in a statement, “but to complete the improved version of our app, one that we believe will provide a much better experience for our subscribers, it has to be done.”
The app? Right, the app is such an important part of the user experience.
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  #418  
Old 07-06-2019, 08:23 AM
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[Moderating]

I hadn't even noticed that we had two different threads on this, until it was pointed out to me. For the record, it didn't really need to be pointed out to anyone else.

Merging.
  #419  
Old 07-06-2019, 08:23 AM
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[Moderating]

I hadn't even noticed that we had two different threads on this, until it was pointed out to me. For the record, it didn't really need to be pointed out to anyone else.

Merging.
  #420  
Old 07-06-2019, 09:03 AM
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The app? Right, the app is such an important part of the user experience.
I can't stop chuckling at them thinking the public will believe them, and we'll just trust that taking the whole of MoviePass down for three weeks is plausible.

I mean, don't other companies close down for weeks whenever they update their app?
[vintage rolleyes emoji]
  #421  
Old 07-06-2019, 09:54 AM
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I can't stop chuckling at them thinking the public will believe them, and we'll just trust that taking the whole of MoviePass down for three weeks is plausible.

I mean, don't other companies close down for weeks whenever they update their app?
[vintage rolleyes emoji]
You’re hardly being fair, comparing them to other companies; since their business is moviegoers, just how big a deal is it for them, specifically, to shutter operations for weeks right as we head into [checks notes] Fourth of July weekend?
  #422  
Old 07-06-2019, 10:04 AM
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You’re hardly being fair, comparing them to other companies; since their business is moviegoers, just how big a deal is it for them, specifically, to shutter operations for weeks right as we head into [checks notes] Fourth of July weekend?
It’s actually a great time for them. The less people who use the service, the less money they lose. They don’t want people to actually be able to use them.

Last edited by Eyebrows 0f Doom; 07-06-2019 at 10:04 AM.
  #423  
Old 08-10-2019, 11:40 AM
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Interesting new article about a new article about MoviePass. (Not reading or linking to the primary article because it demands that you switch off your ad-blocker.)
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