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  #51  
Old 07-29-2019, 01:36 PM
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Daaaamn...

This show was amazing. Great story, very well interconnected, highly relevant, and just done REALLY well.

The plane scene was PHENOMENAL. Still gives me shivers.

And baby-lasers. You can't go wrong with baby-lasers.
  #52  
Old 07-29-2019, 02:40 PM
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And baby-lasers. You can't go wrong with baby-lasers.
Loved that scene as well. However, given Butcher's hatred of all sup's, I'm surprised he didn't try and kill the babies in the lab, but actually took great care to put it back into its incubator.
  #53  
Old 07-30-2019, 08:26 PM
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I watched the first four episodes after reading the positive reviews, and it’s actually quite good. Yes, it’s dark and depressing, but it doesn’t wallow in it as much as the comic. [..] The plot changes are a bit of an improvement, with the whole “what is compound V” mystery giving the crew a goal beyond killing random Supers in gory and humiliating ways.
Last year I read the plot synopsis on Wikipedia (I was curious after seeing that they were filming in Toronto), and it sounded a bit distasteful (to me) in terms of its EXXXTREME violence. So I was pleasantly surprised by how the TV series turned out.

Last edited by hogarth; 07-30-2019 at 08:27 PM.
  #54  
Old 07-31-2019, 01:19 AM
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Went into this blind. Holy shit, it is dark. But good so far.

I don't know how to process the short dolphin rescue scene. I laughed, but what the hell!
  #55  
Old 07-31-2019, 07:45 AM
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Which is exactly how you're supposed to process it. Garth Ennis writes some seriously dark, but funny stuff.
  #56  
Old 07-31-2019, 07:54 AM
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Which is exactly how you're supposed to process it. Garth Ennis writes some seriously dark, but funny stuff.
Is it wrong I'm glad the dolphin died instead of it turning into a sex scene?
  #57  
Old 07-31-2019, 07:56 AM
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Which is exactly how you're supposed to process it. Garth Ennis writes some seriously dark, but funny stuff.
That wasn't actually in the comics, though. Now, Ennis is still a producer, so it could still have been his idea, but in the comics The Deep was a largely irrelevant side character that appeared in few pages, mostly as background. He wore an old-timey diver's helmet.
  #58  
Old 07-31-2019, 10:05 AM
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I really liked Homelander explaining why he couldn't just carry a plane in flight.
I didn't. He could have just grabbed onto the wing spars and carried the plane down. It would have easily handled the stress.
  #59  
Old 07-31-2019, 10:29 AM
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I didn't. He could have just grabbed onto the wing spars and carried the plane down. It would have easily handled the stress.
I just took that as him trying to calm Maeve down- He seems to be something of a sadistic prick. I think he likes being able to cause the death of us squishy normals on a whim, as evidenced in the scene where he unnecessarily kills the lone gunman in the high rise, staring him in the eyes as he dies.

He had the barest pretense to allow the plane to go down, and he took it.

I still have three episodes to go, which I'll be finishing up tonight.
  #60  
Old 07-31-2019, 10:46 AM
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Really enjoyed it. But I kept seeing seeing Jack Quaid (Hughie) as a young Michael Shannon.
  #61  
Old 07-31-2019, 11:49 AM
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I just took that as him trying to calm Maeve down- He seems to be something of a sadistic prick. I think he likes being able to cause the death of us squishy normals on a whim, as evidenced in the scene where he unnecessarily kills the lone gunman in the high rise, staring him in the eyes as he dies.

He had the barest pretense to allow the plane to go down, and he took it.

I still have three episodes to go, which I'll be finishing up tonight.
I don't think he's quite THAT sadistic. I feel like they played the scene as if he really though't it wasn't possible, despite what Superman does in the comic books all the time.
  #62  
Old 07-31-2019, 11:58 AM
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I didn't. He could have just grabbed onto the wing spars and carried the plane down. It would have easily handled the stress.
I have no idea what nor where wing spars are. And going by his explanation, it's possible Homelander didn't either.

Comics info:
SPOILER:
The comic made it much more obvious that The Seven lacked any real training for this kind of situation. They're marketing tools more than they are an effective hero team. Even if they had the power to save the plane, and that's debatable, The Seven had no clue how to use those powers in inobvious ways, or how to work together as a team to leverage their strengths.
  #63  
Old 07-31-2019, 12:01 PM
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I don't think he's quite THAT sadistic. I feel like they played the scene as if he really though't it wasn't possible, despite what Superman does in the comic books all the time.
Nope. I think he was that sadistic. The dude can fly. He could have at least slowed the descent over the ocean, or tried SOMETHING. He was full of shit, and just didn't want to do anything aside from fuck with Maeve's head on this.

He could have flown in place of one of the engines, anything.

Homelander is an asshole.
  #64  
Old 07-31-2019, 12:31 PM
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No sorry, this has been a nerd discussion since the first time it happened in the comics. His explanation was dead on.
  #65  
Old 07-31-2019, 01:45 PM
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Nope. I think he was that sadistic. The dude can fly. He could have at least slowed the descent over the ocean, or tried SOMETHING. He was full of shit, and just didn't want to do anything aside from fuck with Maeve's head on this.

He could have flown in place of one of the engines, anything.

Homelander is an asshole.
Only Superman/Supergirl can fly in place of an engine, though I don't recall engines being the issue in The Boys. I believe the issue was depressurization and a destroyed instrumentation panel. Perhaps Homelander could have steadied the plane while Maeve called to find out how to manually lower flaps and slow the plane down (assuming such was/is possible), but Homelander would have to know exactly where on the fuselage to apply pressure (I'd guess somewhere around the landing gear, but what the hell do I know). Smarter would have been to have everyone grab their seat cushion floatation devices and those vests they tell you about before every flight, and put them safely in the water. Shorter trip, two at a time, he might save most of them. Homelander and Maeve did discuss this, but he was thinking about the longer trip to dry land (and even that ignores that it's insanely cold 6-7 miles up and that after depressurization, hypothermia would already have been setting in).

Now I agree wholeheartedly it would have been better to try than just to say "Fuck this shit! See you on the other side." and then leave, but Homelander is a shitty human being. But this isn't a Superman story and in this universe they choose to ignore fewer laws of physics.
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  #66  
Old 07-31-2019, 02:10 PM
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Nope. I think he was that sadistic. The dude can fly. He could have at least slowed the descent over the ocean, or tried SOMETHING. He was full of shit, and just didn't want to do anything aside from fuck with Maeve's head on this.

He could have flown in place of one of the engines, anything.

Homelander is an asshole.
No doubt. In the first episode he drops a plane carrying a Governor, his young son and the plane crew, murdering all of them.

But I guess that once he's flying he's a bit like a missile. He can ram things at high speed and make holes, very little else.
  #67  
Old 07-31-2019, 02:46 PM
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No doubt. In the first episode he drops a plane carrying a Governor, his young son and the plane crew, murdering all of them.
I think that scene where he talked about why he did it really set the tone for the show, too: he was mad that anyone had the audacity to bargain with him (well, his company/people/organization) as an equal and get the better of him. It lets us know early on that Homelander isn't happy with how his life has been having to knuckle under to inferior beings.
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But I guess that once he's flying he's a bit like a missile. He can ram things at high speed and make holes, very little else.
But we see him holding Maeve in mid-air as they watch the doomed airplane fly off to the horizon.

I'm wiling to buy that he couldn't stop the plan from crashing. The real horror comes from the fact that he could have saved some of those people, but he chose not to because of how that might have negatively impacted himself.
  #68  
Old 07-31-2019, 02:55 PM
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No doubt. In the first episode he drops a plane carrying a Governor, his young son and the plane crew, murdering all of them.

But I guess that once he's flying he's a bit like a missile. He can ram things at high speed and make holes, very little else.
I like this. A real Superman wouldn't be able to grab a plane by the wing or fuselage and set it gently down on the ground. The plane would obviously tear apart.
  #69  
Old 07-31-2019, 04:41 PM
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Only Superman/Supergirl can fly in place of an engine, though I don't recall engines being the issue in The Boys. I believe the issue was depressurization and a destroyed instrumentation panel. Perhaps Homelander could have steadied the plane while Maeve called to find out how to manually lower flaps and slow the plane down (assuming such was/is possible), but Homelander would have to know exactly where on the fuselage to apply pressure (I'd guess somewhere around the landing gear, but what the hell do I know). Smarter would have been to have everyone grab their seat cushion floatation devices and those vests they tell you about before every flight, and put them safely in the water. Shorter trip, two at a time, he might save most of them. Homelander and Maeve did discuss this, but he was thinking about the longer trip to dry land (and even that ignores that it's insanely cold 6-7 miles up and that after depressurization, hypothermia would already have been setting in).

Now I agree wholeheartedly it would have been better to try than just to say "Fuck this shit! See you on the other side." and then leave, but Homelander is a shitty human being. But this isn't a Superman story and in this universe they choose to ignore fewer laws of physics.
And on that tangent, this is a SUPER-HERO universe. I'm sure that there's been just as many plane crashes in their universe as in our universe. Don't you think the plane manufacturers would have made, I don't know, something like a metal handle or big metal plate that flying superheroes could hold to save the plane? I'm sure OSHA or the FAA would have demanded that by now.
  #70  
Old 07-31-2019, 04:41 PM
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I'm wiling to buy that he couldn't stop the plan from crashing. The real horror comes from the fact that he could have saved some of those people, but he chose not to because of how that might have negatively impacted himself.
Also that he puts zero thought into his actions and just blasts away without care. There was no reason to eye laser the terrorist in the cockpit. He is just an utterly careless and heartless god.
  #71  
Old 07-31-2019, 07:00 PM
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And on that tangent, this is a SUPER-HERO universe. I'm sure that there's been just as many plane crashes in their universe as in our universe. Don't you think the plane manufacturers would have made, I don't know, something like a metal handle or big metal plate that flying superheroes could hold to save the plane? I'm sure OSHA or the FAA would have demanded that by now.
It's hard to tell, but I'm not sure that Homelander is that strong, and he does seem to be the strongest. We know that Maeve isn't in WW's category. She talked about her arms breaking when she stopped the bus (plus she can't fly). But he definitely does use his powers carelessly.

As for the flying plane handle, that's one of those things that depends on which rules of physics the universe always ignores, sometimes ignores, or never ignores. I don't think it would work without adding really significant weight, but I'm no aircraft engineer (or engineer of any type).
  #72  
Old 07-31-2019, 07:02 PM
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And on that tangent, this is a SUPER-HERO universe. I'm sure that there's been just as many plane crashes in their universe as in our universe. Don't you think the plane manufacturers would have made, I don't know, something like a metal handle or big metal plate that flying superheroes could hold to save the plane? I'm sure OSHA or the FAA would have demanded that by now.
Super powers are apparently only as old as Homelander, tho. And they don't exist in the universe, as such, only in America (well, until E7, that is).

So not a lot of history or incentive, prolly, to design stuff with "being saved by a superhero" in mind.
  #73  
Old 07-31-2019, 07:38 PM
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Super powers are apparently only as old as Homelander, tho. And they don't exist in the universe, as such, only in America (well, until E7, that is).

So not a lot of history or incentive, prolly, to design stuff with "being saved by a superhero" in mind.
Plus as far as we know only one even has the power level to attempt that.
  #74  
Old 07-31-2019, 07:45 PM
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True dat. Remember that Stilwell said "if he has a weakness, I don't know what it is." Seems like he's the proto-supe and all others are somewhat lesser than he is. Which makes the idea of his son REALLY freaky and scary. I hope they make plot points of him confiding to his son that they are better than humans and don't need to care about them; the inner conflict of the kid, who's been raised by his normie mother, would be amazing to watch (and maybe the team who made Brightburn could get a few pointers for their still-possible sequels). The father-son fight scene in S5 would totally fucking rock!

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 07-31-2019 at 07:45 PM.
  #75  
Old 08-01-2019, 09:39 AM
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Just finished last night- holy shit, need more. Eight episodes were not enough to scratch an itch I didn't even know I had.
  #76  
Old 08-01-2019, 09:43 AM
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Just finished last night- holy shit, need more. Eight episodes were not enough to scratch an itch I didn't even know I had.
Sadly according to an AMA on reddit season 2 is also eight episodes.
  #77  
Old 08-01-2019, 09:55 AM
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I definitely wish we could all agree that a season is no less than 10 hours of material.
  #78  
Old 08-01-2019, 11:14 AM
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In the comics he wasn’t the first but was by far the most powerful super known, literally grown in a vat of compound V and costing tens or even hundreds of billions. Still, his power level doesn’t scratch that of Superman, but still far outstrips anyone else but (Spoiler) in universe.
The Frenchman says that supers are almost impossible to kill and each requires a custom approach, but that probably only applies to tier one guys, as popclaw and Mesmer went down pretty easily.
  #79  
Old 08-01-2019, 11:26 AM
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Q: When Vought is cooking up these Supes, do they know ahead of time what their super powers are gonna be?

Or do they just inject them with the drug and wait and see what happens?
  #80  
Old 08-01-2019, 12:17 PM
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I don’t know what the series answer is, but in the comics it seemed to depend on the quantity and quality of the V, and possibly the mode of exposure. An adult injected with the proper dose of pure V gets enhanced strength and toughness. Impure or offbrand stuff gives weird effects, and kids who inherit powers seem to get less powerful and more unpredictable results. Highly diluted V is sold as a street drug that gives short term powers, and is shown being used by hookers to survive sex with a super.
  #81  
Old 08-01-2019, 12:40 PM
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Still, his power level doesn’t scratch that of Superman, but still far outstrips anyone else but (Spoiler) in universe.
PLEASE refrain from comments like this. The fact that you didn't tell us who is more powerful doesn't absolve the fact that you told that someone is more powerful than Homelander.

Please don't post spoilers from the comic here; if you'd like to discuss the comic please start a separate thread.
  #82  
Old 08-01-2019, 01:04 PM
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My apologies, I wasn’t thinking.
  #83  
Old 08-01-2019, 01:28 PM
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You're good people, Johnny; thanks.
  #84  
Old 08-02-2019, 12:24 AM
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Good news, everyone!

As of today, with 23,116 people rating the series, it stands at a solid 9/10.
  #85  
Old 08-02-2019, 09:33 PM
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Finished it yesterday. It was all right, with a couple of annoyances.

SPOILER:


Annie finding out about Hughie was annoying. I could see her being upset, of course, but once it was clear that he was telling the truth, talk to him and get the entire story. They don't even have to show us, but at least give some indication that she knows the full story on what Vought was up to, and what the rest of the Seven are like. Even in the big reveal by Homelander, it's not made clear to her that A-train killed Hughie's girlfriend doing a drug run, laughed about it, or that Vought offered a paltry $45k in compensation.

The "fall" of The Deep. A week ago, the guy is one of The Seven, getting points on a billion dollar movie, and was one of the best paid Supes in the country for at least a decade (given Starlight's childhood crush). Why, exactly, does he have to move to Sandusky, Ohio and live on $75 a day? Resign from The Seven, move to some beachfront property and live out his days in quiet comfort.

Really, that part went for almost all the Supes. It was never made clear why everyone was stuck being miserable in that tower, despite being wealthy, famous, and powerful. Black Noir, Translucent and Homelander, I get - no moral compass. It was still a step up for Starlight but given her background, she should definitely be quitting at this point. Maybe A-train still got off on being famous. But Maeve was a miserable alcoholic staying because...?

In contrast, what happened with the Boys was much more sensible and believable. Mother's Milk's wife leaving him, the government abandoning them when they discover they need Vought, etc.



So overall I found the show fun, and interesting, but also somewhat shallow and frustrating, and a lot of what made it "Mature Audiences" was juvenile. Maybe season two will go deeper into the whys. And I suspect we'll discover that Black Noir is a woman o transgender. I don't recall anyone using a pronoun for the character.
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  #86  
Old 08-02-2019, 09:41 PM
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And I suspect we'll discover that Black Noir is a woman o transgender. I don't recall anyone using a pronoun for the character.
The comic had a different origin than that for Black Noir, though I don't know if they'll stick with it.
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Old 08-02-2019, 09:44 PM
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I think The Deep's situation happened because they were trying to draw an analog with what happens to people IRL: they get put out to pasture. It doesn't really hold up to scrutiny, maybe, but as commentary on our society it makes sense.

I was also annoyed at the way that the Hughie/Annie reveal played out, for the exact same reason. I'd have really liked him to say "okay, I gotta come clean but there's a lot to tell".

The only two of the 7 who were miserable (Annie doesn't count here; she's a noob) are Maeve and Homelander. Homeland can't leave; he has nowhere else to go. He doesn't even really have a regular name anymore ("It's been a long time since anyone called me John."), a family or any other notion of life that isn't "I'm a supe."

Maeve can't leave for many of the same reasons, altho she wasn't raised in a lab (that we know of yet) like Homelander. She tells us: "I gave parts of me away for so long there isn't anything real left." She's compromised her morals, her sexuality, her relationship… and now she's trapped in this life. All she's got left is to be one of the 7.

And you're supposed to get that many of these supes have no moral compass; it's the central premise of the story.
  #88  
Old 08-02-2019, 09:45 PM
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The comic had a different origin than that for Black Noir, though I don't know if they'll stick with it.
Wow; could you please stop posting spoilers from the comic that may or may not become relevant in later episodes?
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Old 08-02-2019, 09:52 PM
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Wow; could you please stop posting spoilers from the comic that may or may not become relevant in later episodes?
Are you serious? I didn't give any details whatsoever except that in the comic, Black Noir wasn't a transgender female. Given the time it was written, that doesn't seem to be a spoiler.
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Old 08-02-2019, 10:03 PM
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"I didn't give any spoilers EXCEPT this one!"



Yes, I'm serious. Please don't discuss the comic in this thread; it's for the show.

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  #91  
Old 08-02-2019, 10:24 PM
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It's not a spoiler at all. Would it be a spoiler if I told you Black Noir wasn't secretly Bruce Wayne from an alternate reality? That he or she wasn't Thomas Magnum gone bad after killing Ivan in cold blood?
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Old 08-02-2019, 10:32 PM
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Finished it yesterday. It was all right, with a couple of annoyances.

SPOILER:


Annie finding out about Hughie was annoying. I could see her being upset, of course, but once it was clear that he was telling the truth, talk to him and get the entire story. They don't even have to show us, but at least give some indication that she knows the full story on what Vought was up to, and what the rest of the Seven are like. Even in the big reveal by Homelander, it's not made clear to her that A-train killed Hughie's girlfriend doing a drug run, laughed about it, or that Vought offered a paltry $45k in compensation.

The "fall" of The Deep. A week ago, the guy is one of The Seven, getting points on a billion dollar movie, and was one of the best paid Supes in the country for at least a decade (given Starlight's childhood crush). Why, exactly, does he have to move to Sandusky, Ohio and live on $75 a day? Resign from The Seven, move to some beachfront property and live out his days in quiet comfort.

Really, that part went for almost all the Supes. It was never made clear why everyone was stuck being miserable in that tower, despite being wealthy, famous, and powerful. Black Noir, Translucent and Homelander, I get - no moral compass. It was still a step up for Starlight but given her background, she should definitely be quitting at this point. Maybe A-train still got off on being famous. But Maeve was a miserable alcoholic staying because...?

In contrast, what happened with the Boys was much more sensible and believable. Mother's Milk's wife leaving him, the government abandoning them when they discover they need Vought, etc.


For the Deep,

SPOILER:

I would think he accepts the demotion for similar reasons to why some veteran professional athletes accept assignment to the minor leagues, or extend their careers in lesser leagues abroad at a greatly reduced salary, or why some big movie stars linger on for years after their peak appearing in crappy low-budget movies.

For one thing, it's pretty clearly all he knows how to do. He doesn't seem to have any real skills other than being the Deep, and, more importantly, he doesn't seem to have any real sense of self other than being the Deep. He doesn't even appear to have much in the way of day-to-day life skills. All he knows is being the Deep, and toeing the Vought corporate line, so he does. He also seems to have enough ego at first that he's genuinely convinced this is a temporary setback, and the corporate honchos will realize they need him back soon enough. It seems like its only when the supes military contracting legislation passes, and he's still relegated to an appearance at a second-rate theme park, that he fully realizes just how far he's fallen. Also, he doesn't seem to have much in the way of impulse control, or, again, day-to-day life skills, so like a lot of celebrities, he may well have squandered most of the money he made.

Last edited by gdave; 08-02-2019 at 10:32 PM. Reason: fixed quote tag
  #93  
Old 08-03-2019, 02:02 AM
kaylasdad99 is online now
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Originally Posted by gdave View Post
For the Deep,

SPOILER:

I would think he accepts the demotion for similar reasons to why some veteran professional athletes accept assignment to the minor leagues, or extend their careers in lesser leagues abroad at a greatly reduced salary, or why some big movie stars linger on for years after their peak appearing in crappy low-budget movies.

For one thing, it's pretty clearly all he knows how to do. He doesn't seem to have any real skills other than being the Deep, and, more importantly, he doesn't seem to have any real sense of self other than being the Deep. He doesn't even appear to have much in the way of day-to-day life skills. All he knows is being the Deep, and toeing the Vought corporate line, so he does. He also seems to have enough ego at first that he's genuinely convinced this is a temporary setback, and the corporate honchos will realize they need him back soon enough. It seems like its only when the supes military contracting legislation passes, and he's still relegated to an appearance at a second-rate theme park, that he fully realizes just how far he's fallen. Also, he doesn't seem to have much in the way of impulse control, or, again, day-to-day life skills, so like a lot of celebrities, he may well have squandered most of the money he made.
Or possibly
SPOILER:
Every cent of it is tied up in stock options. Of an Enron-esque nature, which he’s not allowed to cash in.
  #94  
Old 08-04-2019, 10:43 AM
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Interesting to see what they kept and what they changed. I never felt like the comic gave enough of a backstory to the Female or the Frenchman, and the TV series addresses some of that. I was nervous about MM meeting Madelyn Stillwell, who wasn't in the comic, but apparently they are going in a different direction with him. They name-dropped Tek Knight, one of my favorite Ennis characters ever, so seeing him will be a treat. The show puts more thought into the crew's dubious legal status than the comic did.

I would not have thought this would work so well on TV and am glad I was mistaken. I hope someone will consider adapting Marshal Law and Top Ten.
  #95  
Old 08-04-2019, 11:11 AM
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The Deep was obviously still highly interested in being a super hero, retirement would be even worse than Sandusky, Ohio. Witness his excitement the moment he thinks he is being called up? he is sitting around hoping to get back into the team.
  #96  
Old 08-04-2019, 11:24 AM
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I liked how he thought he was being sent down to the minor league, only to find that he had been put out to pasture.

I like how it points out that he isn't really in control of his life, despite his superpowers. The dichotomy is fascinating, and at the heart of Homelander's story.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 08-04-2019 at 11:25 AM.
  #97  
Old 08-04-2019, 11:42 AM
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Yeah, all the supers tend to have the old “And leave show business?” Attitude. It’s even mentioned that Starlight could become a cop instead of a hero, if she only cares about helping people, a comment she never answers.
  #98  
Old 08-05-2019, 07:35 PM
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I thought is was a great series. I don't know anything about the comics, but I thought everything was enjoyable in every episode, except the plane crash. Homelander could have done something, he just didn't want to.

Also, I learned a valuable lesson - don't assume a new series is 10 episodes. If you don't you won't be extremely pissed off when the season ends after 8 episodes
  #99  
Old 08-05-2019, 08:18 PM
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I definitely wish we could all agree that a season is no less than 10 hours of material.
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Old 08-05-2019, 09:47 PM
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Amazon did a good job with this, I think. Reading some comments about the comic series, that author made the Supes stupidly and insanely over the top evil. Amazon toned that down quite a bit. You can almost feel sorry for The Wave- yes, he's a total jerk, but we know people like that (and he does love Dolphins, so that's something.....). He's believable in his jerkitude and sexual harassment. He's almost...human.
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