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Old 08-06-2019, 08:32 PM
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Adults reciting the Pledge of Allegiance


At the beginning of every meeting at my condo, we are asked to stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Although patriotic, this ritual seems childish since we were all compelled to recite this in school. The National Anthem is too long, and not everyone wants to sing. Is there something else we could say or do?
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:42 PM
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Light calisthenics.
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:47 PM
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Bellamy salute, in silence.
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:51 PM
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveRaver View Post
At the beginning of every meeting at my condo, we are asked to stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Although patriotic, this ritual seems childish since we were all compelled to recite this in school. The National Anthem is too long, and not everyone wants to sing. Is there something else we could say or do?
Have you considered just getting on with the busienss of the meeting? I'm not seeing any need to say or do anything at all by way of patriotic display. It hardly seems the time or the place, to be honest.
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:56 PM
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Bellamy salute, in silence.
A throwback to the good ole’ days? I’m sure it’d be a hit! They might even make the news!!
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:29 PM
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Well, since you called it a Bellamy Salute, I can't legitimately suggest doing that (which was the first thing that came to mind) along with a hearty "Hail Caesar".

Hmmm. Reciting the Code of the Sith?
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:32 PM
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Okay, fight my ignorance. Bellamy salute?

You could always take a knee.

Last edited by Two Many Cats; 08-06-2019 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:39 PM
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Okay, fight my ignorance. Bellamy salute?
It's named for Francis Bellamy who designed what to do with your hands during the Pledge of Allegiance. We changed the gesture in the Flag Code in 1942.

I bet you can see why.
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:39 PM
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Okay, fight my ignorance. Bellamy salute?
It was old man Bellamy’s idea, and a good ‘un, until that Devil Adolf ruined it forever more.
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:47 PM
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Adults reciting the Pledge of Allegiance


Agree with UDS.

Shouldn't the meeting just begin with the chair asking if everyone's got the agenda and calling the meeting to order?

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Old 08-06-2019, 09:49 PM
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Where on earth do you live where adults feel the need to proclaim their loyalty to the US of A? Is this like a deep south thing?
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Old 08-06-2019, 10:07 PM
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Is this like a deep south thing?
Only if they're using the Southern Pledge of Allegiance, which contains the additional line "for two hundred and thirty-eight out of two hundred and forty-three years."
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Old 08-06-2019, 10:12 PM
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Where on earth do you live where adults feel the need to proclaim their loyalty to the US of A? Is this like a deep south thing?
Nope, it's New York. It's just the way things have been done here apparently.
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Old 08-06-2019, 10:23 PM
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Have you considered just getting on with the busienss of the meeting? I'm not seeing any need to say or do anything at all by way of patriotic display. It hardly seems the time or the place, to be honest.
This. I find it ridiculous that we make our children recite a loyalty oath in school. Is forced patriotism real patriotism? And the anthem before sporting events is equally dumb. Except maybe for international matches.
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Old 08-06-2019, 10:56 PM
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Nope, it's New York. It's just the way things have been done here apparently.
Not just NY; I've hit it in PA and IN as well at various clubs, meetings and other things. I never minded much as long as people realize that not participating is an option I may select.
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Old 08-06-2019, 11:04 PM
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From Sir Terry Pratchett's Nac Mac Feegle, we have this gem: "Nae King! Nae quin! Nae Laird! Nae master! We willna' be fooled agin!"

Last edited by NotherYinzer; 08-06-2019 at 11:06 PM. Reason: Bloody autocorrect
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Old 08-06-2019, 11:17 PM
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Do a prayer. At my city's council meetings, they do a prayer and then the Pledge. It's uh...well, I am present at least.
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Old 08-06-2019, 11:25 PM
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Do a prayer, but a prayer that has nothing to do with the actual tasks at hand, such as a prayer for burial of the dead (earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust).
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Old 08-06-2019, 11:54 PM
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Have you considered just getting on with the busienss of the meeting? I'm not seeing any need to say or do anything at all by way of patriotic display. It hardly seems the time or the place, to be honest.
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Originally Posted by Northern Piper View Post
Agree with UDS.

Shouldn't the meeting just begin with the chair asking if everyone's got the agenda and calling the meeting to order?
And I agree with both of these posters. It's a condo meeting, convened to discuss business related to the condominium, nothing else.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:08 AM
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Do a prayer, but a prayer that has nothing to do with the actual tasks at hand, such as a prayer for burial of the dead (earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust).
Give them Roger Zelazny's agnostic prayer:

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Insofar as I may be heard by anything, which may or may not care what I say, I ask, if it matters, that you be forgiven for anything you may have done or failed to do which requires forgiveness. Conversely, if not forgiveness but something else may be required to insure any possible benefit for which you may be eligible after the destruction of your body, I ask that this, whatever it may be, be granted or withheld, as the case may be, in such a manner as to insure your receiving said benefit. I ask this in my capacity as your elected intermediary between yourself and that which may not be yourself, but which may have an interest in the matter of your receiving as much as it is possible for you to receive of this thing, and which may in some way be influenced by this ceremony. Amen.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:49 AM
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Where on earth do you live where adults feel the need to proclaim their loyalty to the US of A? Is this like a deep south thing?
The U.S. Senate begins every day's session with a prayer and the Pledge. It's hardly childish.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:59 AM
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The Pledge for the Senate, OK, it's a bit silly to me that one would feel the need to renew one's vows every day (at least they don't invite the whole family), but I don't think the prayer is appropriate in any context other than a specific religious meeting. Meals by families in which everybody belongs to the same religion and that religion blesses meals count as a religious meeting; a bunch of people who may or may not have religion, and among whom those who do have religion will belong to different ones, meeting to handle state business in a place that's supposed to have separation of church and state, do not.
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Old 08-07-2019, 01:04 AM
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The U.S. Senate begins every day's session with a prayer and the Pledge. It's hardly childish.
Do you say the pledge of allegiance at breakfast? If not, why not?
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Old 08-07-2019, 01:17 AM
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The U.S. Senate begins every day's session with a prayer and the Pledge. It's hardly childish.
It's very childish indeed for a condo board to equate themselves with something like the U.S. Senate.
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Old 08-07-2019, 01:38 AM
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Nm

Last edited by Personal; 08-07-2019 at 01:39 AM.
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Old 08-07-2019, 02:13 AM
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The U.S. Senate begins every day's session with a prayer and the Pledge. It's hardly childish.
When we consider some of the behaviour and attitudes seen in the US Senate, the fact that something happens in the US Senate is hardly, in itself, a compelling argument that that thing is not childish.

In any event there is an obvious distinction. The US Senate disharges a public function for the benefit of the republic. In that context, a formal affirmation of allegiance to the republic has a certain logic. A group of property owners meeting to manage their property to advance their personal and private advantage is not performing a public function or doing anything on behalf of the republic, and their political opinions and allegiances are wholly irrelevant to the business at hand.

Last edited by UDS; 08-07-2019 at 02:17 AM.
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Old 08-07-2019, 02:47 AM
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It's always important to perpetuate monotheist supremacy.
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Old 08-07-2019, 05:47 AM
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Do a prayer, but a prayer that has nothing to do with the actual tasks at hand, such as a prayer for burial of the dead (earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust).
Growing up, my buddy ('s parents) had a framed picture in the basement - it was a cavedude in a wife-beater, dragging a club. Below it was the text, "Yeah though I walk thru the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I fear no evil, fore I am the meanest son of a bitch in the valley."

To this day, I can't go to a funeral & not mumble the alternate words & chuckle.
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:46 AM
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Where on earth do you live where adults feel the need to proclaim their loyalty to the US of A? Is this like a deep south thing?
They do it here at our civic association meetings in my neighborhood in Chicago, as well, so, no, not a “Deep South” thing. More an old tradition thing.
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:56 AM
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They do it here at our civic association meetings in my neighborhood in Chicago, as well, so, no, not a “Deep South” thing. More an old tradition thing.
Don't you have any foreign neighbours? It feels rather exclusionary to non-US citizens.
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:04 AM
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At the beginning of every meeting at my condo, we are asked to stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.
And everyone just goes along with it?

I've never owned a condo, likely never would, and if I did I'd probably find an excuse to avoid "meetings". But if I ever attended a meeting where I was asked to recite a pledge, I'd LOL and walk out shaking my head.

Imagining "group meetings begun with a pledge recitation" brings horrible images to mind.
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:04 AM
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I have a fundamental dislike and distrust of loyalty oaths of any kind. One's actions should speak for one's beliefs. If I feel compelled to tell you how patriotic or religious I am, if I need to say that I'm a great parent or a stellar employee, what is the likelihood that I am what I say I am? Seems to me the worst traitor would be standing the tallest and reciting the pledge the loudest, just to prove he/she isn't a traitor.

Or maybe I'm just too cynical.
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:18 AM
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Don't you have any foreign neighbours? It feels rather exclusionary to non-US citizens.
Very many. I’ve always found the Pledge a bit weird, but it seems few give it a thought around here.

Last edited by pulykamell; 08-07-2019 at 07:18 AM.
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:33 AM
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Speaking as a non-US person : what, and I can't stress this enough, the fuck ?!
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:37 AM
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Speaking as a non-US person : what, and I can't stress this enough, the fuck ?!
Seconded.
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:45 AM
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Seconded.
Yes, thirded.
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:50 AM
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I bet you can see why.
Amazing how blond most of those kids are....
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:52 AM
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At the beginning of MY condo meetings, we go around one by one asking all of the board members if they are now, or ever have been, a member of the communist party. Then we waterboard everyone to make sure they're not lying. It takes up most of the meeting but you can never be too patriotic.
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:55 AM
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When I lived in Texas, it seems that, most gatherings had an invocation of some sort. Usually it was a minister from a local church who said too much while trying to sound profound.

I would normally just stare at the floor and bite my lip during these things.
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:59 AM
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Speaking as a non-US person : what, and I can't stress this enough, the fuck ?!
Speaking as a US person: I agree.

How about John Galt's oath:

"I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

That should set the proper tone for any meeting.
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Old 08-07-2019, 08:13 AM
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The U.S. Senate begins every day's session with a prayer and the Pledge. It's hardly childish.
Yeah! How dare you accuse a group of adults who renamed French fries "freedom fries" of being childish!

Anyway, we do it in a committee that I'm on in NJ, but the committee is specifically about preparing for July 4th, so maybe it makes more sense?

If you think about it, how insecure must America be that it requires kids to pledge allegiance every day in school? Best not to think about it, I guess.
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Old 08-07-2019, 08:21 AM
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The U.S. Senate begins every day's session with a prayer and the Pledge. It's hardly childish.
It may or may not be childish, but linking it to the US Senate isn't making the case for you.
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And everyone just goes along with it?
Probably. Nothing brings out the righteous pearl-clutching like someone not participating in a patriotic act. Most people probably just go along to get along.

Anyway, set the flag near the door and have everyone high-five it as they enter.
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Old 08-07-2019, 08:38 AM
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I think it's what the right wing kids are calling "virtue signaling" nowadays. It says: "Look at me, I'm patriotic, aren't you?" It's the same thing with prayer. (Of any religion that makes a show or a display of it.) If you really believe that it's doing something, communicating, what have you, then you should see that it doesn't matter if you do it quietly in your head vs. a public declaration.
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Old 08-07-2019, 09:18 AM
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Speaking as a US person: I agree.

How about John Galt's oath:

"I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."

That should set the proper tone for any meeting.
Meh. I'd suggest the Marine Drill Sergeant's patented discussion and debate opener, which goes thus : "All right you maggots, shut your cock holsters and listen the fuck up !". Bonus points awarded for hitting triple digit decibels.
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Old 08-07-2019, 09:27 AM
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Our fire department has this at the start of our monthly meeting. I just take it as ceremonial, and additionally void of meaning since 'under God' negates the pledge to country since my 'pledge' is to God and this nation is of lesser authority given that statement, my pledge to God overrides this pledge but allows me to take it.
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Old 08-07-2019, 09:58 AM
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And everyone just goes along with it?
Absolutely! I don't know what would happen if someone remained seating, but they would certainly stand out!
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:20 AM
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Pledge reinstated at Senior Center in Friday Harbor after "credible threats of violence"
https://sanjuanislander.com/news-art...ts-of-violence


We're fucking doomed. The whole damn country.
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Old 08-07-2019, 10:45 AM
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Speaking as a USA person:

I have been to a whole lot of town and county meetings, as well as private organization meetings, most of them in New York State. I've never been to one that opened with either a pledge or a prayer -- no, wait. About thirty years ago I was at a meeting of a private organization that opened with a prayer.

Municipal meetings generally open with the chair saying "I call this meeting of the [x board on y date] to order. First order of business . . . " Other meetings generally open with introductions if applicable, or if not with whoever's running them saying something along the lines of 'okay, let's get this meeting going' and then moving to the first item of business.

Meetings of one market I go to include a meal, and some of the members need to say grace before meals and ask the rest of us to pause and be quiet while they do so. I've never known them to ask to say a prayer before the meeting itself; and they don't expect the rest of us to join in the prayer before meals, just not to talk over it.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:42 AM
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Our fire department has this at the start of our monthly meeting. I just take it as ceremonial, and additionally void of meaning since 'under God' negates the pledge to country since my 'pledge' is to God and this nation is of lesser authority given that statement, my pledge to God overrides this pledge but allows me to take it.
Out of curiosity, would that be the case for all oaths and pledges? That you will not hold to them if you feel that the conflict with your pledge to God, but that you will still take them and promise to uphold them anyway?
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