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  #101  
Old 08-10-2019, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Manda JO View Post
Well, there isn't universal agreement, nor is it just that they were "offensive". They were exclusionary. They assumed that the audience was male and that only men could speak about the issue. And the damage is done, the tone is set--as a woman, now, I can engage in a meta-conversation in thread about whether or not the tone is appropriate or inoffensive, but that's now the topic of conversation, not the issue uncontrollably staring at a woman is normal and immutable.
You can absolutely discuss the topic of the thread - do you notice attractive men? Is it distracting in any way? More pointedly, if you do notice those men, does it go towards the realm of objectification/sexuality at all?

I think that you can also credibly chastise the OP for his apparent problem in being so utterly distracted that he can’t be a decent human being.

But I disagree with the idea that there shouldn’t be threads based on some gender’s experiences based on the risk that another gender may feel excluded. Criticize the OP for being a misogynist, sure. But there’s a thread about menopause currently going on, and that’s not problematic even though men may not have direct experience with the topic.
  #102  
Old 08-10-2019, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Moriarty View Post
You can absolutely discuss the topic of the thread - do you notice attractive men? Is it distracting in any way? More pointedly, if you do notice those men, does it go towards the realm of objectification/sexuality at all?

I think that you can also credibly chastise the OP for his apparent problem in being so utterly distracted that he can’t be a decent human being.

But I disagree with the idea that there shouldn’t be threads based on some gender’s experiences based on the risk that another gender may feel excluded. Criticize the OP for being a misogynist, sure. But there’s a thread about menopause currently going on, and that’s not problematic even though men may not have direct experience with the topic.
It's not that there shouldn't be a thread about some gender's experiences. It's that they shouldn't be written using phrases and expressions that make it clear that it's written only for men. Saying "when I see an attractive woman, all I can think about is how much I want to hit that" is a gross thing to say to another woman. Describing an attractive woman as "ass cheeks all hanging out" is a gross thing to say to another woman.

It's not the topic that excludes woman, it's the way it's said. The way it's said is the problem. And I can't "credibly chastise him" without first having to respond to the fact that the way it was said made it clear he didn't even consider that women are here, that women read these things. He's talking to his bros. So to "credibly" anything, first I have to redefine the whole situation and establish that I even exist. None of that is true in the menopause thread.

Last edited by Manda JO; 08-10-2019 at 10:16 AM.
  #103  
Old 08-10-2019, 10:30 AM
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Just admitting that men are ultimately controlled by sex is not a crazy thing.
It's a "not true" thing. You're trying to justify yourself with false stereotypes.
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  #104  
Old 08-10-2019, 10:54 AM
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I'm a lady's lady, as it were. I, too, am sometimes distracted by attractive women. If she's attractive enough, or wearing something striking, I may stop to think, "Gosh! Wow!" or even "Nice ____s!" to myself.

Then I get on with my day and don't gawk, because I'm old enough to have developed an attention span that can survive a second of distraction.

Other things that might momentarily distract me: Interesting cars. People walking large dogs. Public art.

I manage, somehow, to move on from these things and get on with my day, even if these distracting 'objects' are not covered with layers of cloth to protect my eyes and train of thought. I suspect most adult heterosexual men are capable of the same.
  #105  
Old 08-10-2019, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Manda JO View Post
I am going to go on about this, because this is exactly the sort of thing that I think causes a disconnect on the misogyny issue here. When the OP tells the story of walking down the street, thinking "Damn, I want to hit that", he just called me and every other woman in this thread a "that". Right there, the tone was set and I was told that this would be a conversation among men, and any woman is starting at a disadvantage because she's not even really a person to the OP--who is confident he speaks for all men.

And yes, there's a potentially interesting discussion suggested by the OP, but it's framed in a misogynistic and degrading way: it's "Hey, fellow dudes, let me tell you about the problems the women cause me". It's humble-bragging about how powerful his sex drive is, so powerful he can't interact with attractive women. He's not looking for advice--he doesn't think it's a problem. He's explicitly looking for validation that his thoughts are normal--and he only wants it from other men, because anything women say will be met with "you couldn't possibly understand and any man who tells you different than me is lying to you".

Potentially interesting conversation starters shouldn't get a pass on being gross. I'd shut down the thread and suggest the OP or someone else restart it with the understanding that there are women and men in the room.
To clarify, the OP wasn't given a pass because the resulting discussion ended up being interesting. Everyone's responses in the thread showed that, instead of just shutting down the thread (in which case nate would learn nothing), everyone could instead point out the various issues in the OP and address them, and hopefully nate can actually learn something from all of this.

In any event, discussions about the moderation and whether or not threads should be closed should be in ATMB. If anyone wishes to discuss this further, please start a thread there.
  #106  
Old 08-10-2019, 04:11 PM
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I have sometimes thought that the difference between a gentleman and a pervert is really just a matter of tact. I always endeavor to be respectful in my interactions with my co-workers, but it’s true that I’ve had some fully formed dirty thoughts about some of those getting my respect. I’m grateful they can’t read my mind!

Really well put! (I also quite liked your next post, although I guess that metadiscussion has been moved elsewhere.)
  #107  
Old 08-10-2019, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Laura View Post
I'm a lady's lady, as it were. I, too, am sometimes distracted by attractive women. If she's attractive enough, or wearing something striking, I may stop to think, "Gosh! Wow!" or even "Nice ____s!" to myself.

Then I get on with my day and don't gawk, because I'm old enough to have developed an attention span that can survive a second of distraction.

Other things that might momentarily distract me: Interesting cars. People walking large dogs. Public art.

I manage, somehow, to move on from these things and get on with my day, even if these distracting 'objects' are not covered with layers of cloth to protect my eyes and train of thought. I suspect most adult heterosexual men are capable of the same.
I'm a heterosexual male, and my reaction is almost exactly the same as yours. Except that I'm distracted by all kinds of dogs.

It would be interesting to write a fantasy story where the sex drives of men and women were reversed, so that women would think about sex every five minutes on a slow day and men would think about it once in a while. I'm not saying that women aren't interested in sex, just not quite as obsessed as men.
  #108  
Old 08-10-2019, 09:19 PM
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It's one thing to be distracted by someone who is attractive; it's another thing entirely to objectify that person. I've got a problem with that. Even when I was in my twenties and hadn't had so much as a date in years I wasn't distracted to the point that all I could think about was having sex with the woman in question.
  #109  
Old 08-10-2019, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Moriarty View Post
You can absolutely discuss the topic of the thread - do you notice attractive men? Is it distracting in any way?
I once got distracted in a meeting by a my boss’s forearms, of all things. To the point of failing to pay attention to the meeting! He had been playing a lot of golf, apparently. As soon as I realized that I had gotten so distracted, I stopped staring and refocused my attention on the meeting.

So yes, distraction can happen to women too..
  #110  
Old 08-11-2019, 07:16 AM
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I never meet an attractive lady and jump towards any thoughts of a sexual nature. Maybe because I have met enough hot women with hideous personality issues. Besides there is a whole internet full of naked ones if you need that sort of stimulation just on sight.

Now someone with an attractive lunch and I am slightly hungry I will be gobsmacked, drool a little, and sometimes completely change my lunch plans to go out and get something like what I saw. If an attractive lady was the person with said lunch then I might be screwed.
  #111  
Old 08-11-2019, 06:34 PM
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I once got distracted in a meeting by a my boss’s forearms, of all things. To the point of failing to pay attention to the meeting! He had been playing a lot of golf, apparently. As soon as I realized that I had gotten so distracted, I stopped staring and refocused my attention on the meeting.

So yes, distraction can happen to women too..
The most interesting part of this comment, to me, is the fact that you noticed a body part (forearms), and not a more general appearance. Arguably, that’s objectifying (“my eyes are not at the ends of my elbows, ma’am”).

But I think that primitive part of our brain which notices secondary sex characteristics does distill this down to objectifying...”nice curves = good mating potential”; “muscles = good genes”, et al

So, at this basic level, the mind will fixate on body parts (faces included) and make inherently shallow determinations. If you didn’t have executive functioning going on, your brain might be inundated with these primal sexual thoughts (similar, I suspect, to the same simple cravings for food or sleep that can sometimes distract us).

But we have the capacity for higher functioning which can distract us from our urges, or find healthy ways to fulfill them. And even when interacting with somebody who might ping these primitive thoughts, we’ve learned to appreciate qualities like intelligence or charm that are more meaningful in modern life.

Maybe some of the problems with those boorish guys is that they just never learn to cultivate a more mature appreciation of women. It’s not that other guys can’t relate to their simplistic level of analysis; it’s just that those guys have developed a more sophisticated awareness of women’s other potential qualities, so the simple sex thought becomes more fleeting.
  #112  
Old 08-11-2019, 06:50 PM
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I believe it’s a deeper issue—a failure or an unwillingness to think of other people as equals, as human beings, whose feelings, experiences, problems are worth considering. It’s all about “why are you trying to stop me from doing that makes me feel good?”

In my own life I have found that the more I try to stop thinking about me and my needs and wants just for a moment and listen to someone else it starts me on a path that can lead me to a different way of seeing things.

At some point in my life I was opposed to all pre- and extra-marital sexual relationships, I was opposed to efforts to gender-neutralize vocabulary such as “policeman,” I was opposed to same-sex marriage, I was opposed to bilingual education, I was opposed to women in the military, etc. ...

over the years I have changed my mind about these and other things beginning with just being empathetic and sympathetic to other people’s experiences and that starts with putting aside “well this is what I like to do” and trying to think about things from someone else’s point of view.

How this applies to the OP is his insistence on using terminology based on how he has learned to think about his desires and by beginning with the position that he is obviously correct and that 98 percent of men agree with him, if they’re being honest.

What he is failing to consider is that he can first describe his feelings in terms that aren’t demeaning to women, and be open to the possibility that just because he thinks or feels something is correct doesn’t mean that it is generally applicable to everyone else.
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  #113  
Old 08-11-2019, 07:20 PM
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How this applies to the OP is his insistence on using terminology based on how he has learned to think about his desires and by beginning with the position that he is obviously correct and that 98 percent of men agree with him, if they’re being honest.

What he is failing to consider is that he can first describe his feelings in terms that aren’t demeaning to women, and be open to the possibility that just because he thinks or feels something is correct doesn’t mean that it is generally applicable to everyone else.
I agree that the OP is a lost cause unless and until he first acknowledges that his perspective is not universal (coincidentally, I heard on the radio tonight about the spotlight effect, a logical fallacy that leads one to overestimate how much others pay attention to them). And, in so making this acknowledgment, he would be greatly served by realizing that a discussion can preemptively exclude valuable knowledge based on how the premise is framed (often called poisoning the well).

Here, he would clearly have gotten more enlightenment about how other people think if he didn’t presume that men who disagree are liars while women simply can’t understand. I’ve chosen to participate because I believe both are nonsense.
  #114  
Old 08-11-2019, 08:24 PM
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WheThing is... people are supposed to eventually get over that level of permanent horniness.
Based on reviewing the limited research that is out there, I suspect a psychologist trained in this topic would tell you that 5 or 6 sexual thoughts per day is well within the boundaries of normal even for someone that is older.
  #115  
Old 08-11-2019, 08:34 PM
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Right. When I was a teenager, it was more like five or six hundred!
  #116  
Old 08-12-2019, 06:30 AM
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You lost me here. I think that it’s not typical for a person to be so distracted that they can’t even hold a conversation. T
I don't think that you should say that because something doesn't happen all the time to everybody, that it isn't "typical"

I'd say that it's "typical" because it happens some of the time to most young men.
  #117  
Old 08-12-2019, 09:35 AM
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Based on reviewing the limited research that is out there, I suspect a psychologist trained in this topic would tell you that 5 or 6 sexual thoughts per day is well within the boundaries of normal even for someone that is older.
5 or 6 short ones, sure. Our point was that we (a bunch of girls between 17 and 23 who according to the OP have no idea what it's like to have sexual thoughts) only had a single sexual thought each day, one which lasted from "when I woke up" until "when I fell asleep"; we couldn't even pinkyswear that our dreams were perfectly chaste (they probably weren't).

The notion that women "can't understand" desire is as demeaning and otherizing as the idea that we exist solely as objects of desire. If we can't feel desire, there is no reason for men to behave in a way that will make us desire them.
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  #118  
Old 08-12-2019, 10:05 AM
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Our point was that we (a bunch of girls between 17 and 23 who according to the OP have no idea what it's like to have sexual thoughts) only had a single sexual thought each day, one which lasted from "when I woke up" until "when I fell asleep"
Ohhh yes I remember that stage.

Don't miss it; but remember it. Lasted quite a while after 23, too.

We nevertheless managed -- as most men manage -- to get our work done, to pay attention to conversations including sometimes ones with men (or other women) who we were attracted to, and to drive down the road without either driving off the road, or leering so obviously that everyone in the vicinity noticed.
  #119  
Old 08-12-2019, 10:49 AM
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I agree that the OP is a lost cause unless and until he first acknowledges that his perspective is not universal (coincidentally, I heard on the radio tonight about the spotlight effect, a logical fallacy that leads one to overestimate how much others pay attention to them). And, in so making this acknowledgment, he would be greatly served by realizing that a discussion can preemptively exclude valuable knowledge based on how the premise is framed (often called poisoning the well).

Here, he would clearly have gotten more enlightenment about how other people think if he didn’t presume that men who disagree are liars while women simply can’t understand. I’ve chosen to participate because I believe both are nonsense.
Some of you guys have this belief that we are the authors of our thoughts, that somehow you can control what your next thought is, reason through it before you even have it. I don't think our minds work like this. When I state I get distracted by an attractive woman, I'm not saying I'm acting on it. I do believe I have some sort of agency in my actions, but I don't have any decision in my next thought or emotion.

And so you might say, "ahh.. but you remaining distracted is an action that you could control", and maybe that's a good point. But it reminds me of the scene in The Naked Gun where Frank Drebin is standing in front an exploding fireworks store, waving his arms in front of onlookers saying "there's nothing to see here! nothing to see!". You can't not see it.
  #120  
Old 08-12-2019, 11:02 AM
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If OP didn't realize this was an issue he wouldn't have posted it as a confession. IMO people should help him by explaining rationally what they think is wrong, not shame him or take what he wrote personally. Otherwise other people with confessions like this that see OP getting beat up may just not share at all and can't learn anything by hearing the various opinions and feedback.
  #121  
Old 08-12-2019, 11:26 AM
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...but I don't believe my mind is much different than your typical male mind.
I can't speak for the typical male, but I can speak for myself.

When watching athletes, I might admire their body tone and temporarily lose sight of the play or feat being performed. "Look at those arms/legs, look at that form, that is really amazing and beautiful". The same goes for dancers, even with teenagers. Most of the time (as I enter my mid-twenties) I don't lose sight of the performance, and I think about how impressive both the athlete and her performance is. This goes for men, too. Although the thoughts and feeling are the same, I probably won't use the word beautiful to describe men. Regardless, I do [U]not[U] think about having sex. (unless they are doing some sort of sex-mimicry dance, but I'm not really into that and think it is gross)

To an extent, the same thing happens when I see an attractive woman. It might be her body but more often it's her face. I think to myself, that is a pretty face or attractive body (or both). Of course I notice, my eyes aren't shut. I don't think about sex, and unless it's some sort of performance I don't dwell on those thoughts for more than an involuntary split-second.

My father's advice is to keep the sex-thoughts to your wife and in the bedroom, or other designated sexy places. Abandoning yourself to lustful thoughts in un-sexy places only creates a feedback loop. In the brain, I hypothesize that abandoning your thoughts to lust only serves to strengthen the neural pathways that enable lustful thinking. Whether or not lust is healthy or moral I will not consider (no idea; probably not), but it is certainly socially unacceptable. There might be a way out with therapy, and working with your wife to associate sexy thoughts with sexy places.

All of that being said, it's not unheard of for teenage boys to say they think about sex the way you describe. I never did but some of my friends did. They grew out of it. It sounds like our friend nate gave in to desire, and it will take quite a lot of effort to "fix" that.

~Max
  #122  
Old 08-12-2019, 12:07 PM
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5 or 6 short ones, sure. Our point was that we (a bunch of girls between 17 and 23 who according to the OP have no idea what it's like to have sexual thoughts) only had a single sexual thought each day, one which lasted from "when I woke up" until "when I fell asleep"; we couldn't even pinkyswear that our dreams were perfectly chaste (they probably weren't).

The notion that women "can't understand" desire is as demeaning and otherizing as the idea that we exist solely as objects of desire. If we can't feel desire, there is no reason for men to behave in a way that will make us desire them.
I think I misunderstood your post. I thought your final sentence about outgrowing that level was related to the 5 or 6 thoughts per day, sounds like you were really referring to the all day long non-interrupted.


Side note:
Limited research on things like sex thoughts, but the variability between individuals within a gender group was far greater than the variability between the groups.
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:07 PM
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Some of you guys have this belief that we are the authors of our thoughts, that somehow you can control what your next thought is, reason through it before you even have it. I don't think our minds work like this. When I state I get distracted by an attractive woman, I'm not saying I'm acting on it. I do believe I have some sort of agency in my actions, but I don't have any decision in my next thought or emotion.

And so you might say, "ahh.. but you remaining distracted is an action that you could control", and maybe that's a good point. But it reminds me of the scene in The Naked Gun where Frank Drebin is standing in front an exploding fireworks store, waving his arms in front of onlookers saying "there's nothing to see here! nothing to see!". You can't not see it.
You’re right, you can’t not see an attractive woman or man. What you can do is not post on a message board how you’d like to “fuck the hell out of that”, or continue to ogle even after your wife has expressed her discomfort. You’re not culpable for every sexy thought that passes through your hindbrain; but you are responsible how you act on them. Saying “Damn, I’d like to fuck the hell out of that” - and you really should go back and re-read Manda JO’s posts on how demeaning it is to be referred to as a “that” - is acting on your impulses. Which is why you’re being taken to task in this thread.
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  #124  
Old 08-12-2019, 01:20 PM
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Some of you guys have this belief that we are the authors of our thoughts, that somehow you can control what your next thought is, reason through it before you even have it. I don't think our minds work like this. When I state I get distracted by an attractive woman, I'm not saying I'm acting on it. I do believe I have some sort of agency in my actions, but I don't have any decision in my next thought or emotion.

And so you might say, "ahh.. but you remaining distracted is an action that you could control", and maybe that's a good point. But it reminds me of the scene in The Naked Gun where Frank Drebin is standing in front an exploding fireworks store, waving his arms in front of onlookers saying "there's nothing to see here! nothing to see!". You can't not see it.
Can't you take an action that lets you regain your concentration? Like, look away?
  #125  
Old 08-12-2019, 02:21 PM
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Can't you take an action that lets you regain your concentration? Like, look away?
I've developed a tactic that seems to really work for me. When I encounter an attractive woman, I allow myself one good look at all of her I can see in one moment. It's not a scan down her body, but a single, medium-range snapshot. I savor it for that instant -- and then I throw it into a mental file drawer so I can focus on her as just another human being and not an object of desire.

Admittedly, it's a lot easier at 54 than 24.
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  #126  
Old 08-12-2019, 02:51 PM
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Some of you guys have this belief that we are the authors of our thoughts, that somehow you can control what your next thought is, reason through it before you even have it. I don't think our minds work like this. When I state I get distracted by an attractive woman, I'm not saying I'm acting on it. I do believe I have some sort of agency in my actions, but I don't have any decision in my next thought or emotion.
Suppose you have a batch of bills that need paying. Do you think you have no decision as to whether your next thought has to do with paying your bills, or whether it has to do with going swimming, or going back to sleep, or eating dinner?

I doubt any of us could get much of anything done if we had no control over our thoughts whatsoever. Yes, of course occasionally a thought's going to get through that's not about whatever we're doing at the time; and of course, with people of any gender (it's definitely not limited to men), sometimes it's going to be a thought about sex. And sometimes there's no reason not to let our minds wander, whether onto sex or onto any other subject. But did you learn, say, back in grade school how to keep your mind on your work? Try using that skill to keep your mind on the road, or on your wife's conversation. If you've had an unusual amount of trouble with attention control in general, there may be some treatment available.

And you did say that you're acting on it. You said you were leering at women on the street while you were driving to such an obvious extent that your wife called you out on it. That's an action. It has an effect on your wife; an effect on you, because it affects your relationship with your wife; and in particular an effect on the woman/women you've been leering at, who unlike your wife didn't volunteer for the position. It also has an effect on your driving. If you really can't think of anything other than sex whenever you see a woman you find attractive, and you can't keep that switch in attention from lasting more than a split second: then please don't drive. Also please don't operate machinery, or take any job in which a lack of attention may screw up the results in a way that affects other people's lives, unless you can find a way to do that job in isolation someplace where you won't see any women.
  #127  
Old 08-12-2019, 06:58 PM
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Some of you guys have this belief that we are the authors of our thoughts, that somehow you can control what your next thought is, reason through it before you even have it. I don't think our minds work like this. When I state I get distracted by an attractive woman, I'm not saying I'm acting on it. I do believe I have some sort of agency in my actions, but I don't have any decision in my next thought or emotion..
You can't control every thought that flows through your brain but, believe it or not, you can control how much you engage with it. I bet tonnes of thoughts flow through your brain all the time that don't cause you to freeze all other concerns and jumpstart your imagination machine. When you see a lottery booth is along your path, you probably think hey it'd be great to win a million bucks. With some idle time, you might fantasize about shit you'd buy. But if you were late for a meeting, you wouldn't. There's a choice to be made as to how much you engage random thoughts. You think it's impossible to stop the imagination train but that isn't true, you enjoy the imagination train. I don't blame you, but it's an unhealthy way to interact with people and you can change. If you want to try.

Last edited by CarnalK; 08-12-2019 at 06:59 PM.
  #128  
Old 08-12-2019, 07:37 PM
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Can't you take an action that lets you regain your concentration? Like, look away?
If someone is going to have this kind of reaction, looking away might make things worse, since the idealized image is stored. A second glance might reveal imperfections, which we all have, that could reduce the distraction.
Most men learn to hide the distraction by the end of high school.
  #129  
Old 08-12-2019, 07:45 PM
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If someone is going to have this kind of reaction, looking away might make things worse, since the idealized image is stored. A second glance might reveal imperfections, which we all have, that could reduce the distraction.
That's like saying someone on a diet should take a second look at that hamburger because it might reveal it has bad toppings. Also, we're talking about another person, how many "second glances" do you figure they are comfortable with?

Last edited by CarnalK; 08-12-2019 at 07:47 PM.
  #130  
Old 08-12-2019, 09:20 PM
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It's been touched on already, but really what's up with this
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Originally Posted by nate View Post
I think if men were completely honest, they'd admit of the same sort of thing happening to them.

I'd bet my life it's like this for 98% of males.
Please. This is something that irks me whatever the subject, not just gender/sex matters but politics, social class, faith, race, religion, hard vs. soft academics -- the writer/speaker who asserts that deep inside if I am true to myself I MUST agree with him and share his sentiment. Um... no. If people tell you they do not feel/believe as you do, the most straightforward conclusion to draw is that they don't.

Most of us when encountering a scenario of attractive person of the relevant sex, just do NOT turn into Tex Avery's Wolfie or have our world turn into a Benny Hill sketch, and we don't become distracted to the point of dysfunctionality at work. Oh, we may joke about it (different debate?), but it's not the norm IRL.


And come on nate, an attractive person is not an exploding fireworks store. Yes you can look away. Or rather, you can go "Right, so noted; now carry on with the business at hand" which is what you should do if any person you encounter is remarkable for being an attractive member of the relevant gender or for any other trait that is noticeable about them. Being sexy, being unusually tall or short, obese, bald, hairy, albino, inked/pierced, you name it.



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Sometimes I just feel like posting what is on my mind.
Sure, this IS a feeling I sometimes get. I get over it quickly as an extension of the part about "I will not just mouth out right away whatever crosses my mind" that most of us learn sooner or later is beneficial.

Last edited by JRDelirious; 08-12-2019 at 09:22 PM.
  #131  
Old 08-12-2019, 09:28 PM
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You’re right, you can’t not see an attractive woman or man. What you can do is not post on a message board how you’d like to “fuck the hell out of that”, or continue to ogle even after your wife has expressed her discomfort. You’re not culpable for every sexy thought that passes through your hindbrain; but you are responsible how you act on them. Saying “Damn, I’d like to fuck the hell out of that” - and you really should go back and re-read Manda JO’s posts on how demeaning it is to be referred to as a “that” - is acting on your impulses. Which is why you’re being taken to task in this thread.
So the lesson for the next person is to keep his or her thoughts to his or her self, and learn nothing, lest there be burning eyes. Got it.
  #132  
Old 08-12-2019, 10:09 PM
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Can't you take an action that lets you regain your concentration? Like, look away?
At this point, it sounds like nate is describing a mental illness. Having so little control over your mental stability that a fairly common occurrence can completely throw you off your game and render you unable to function in society?

First, that ain't 98% of people. If it were, there'd be a lot more car crashes.

Second, that's a description of a mental problem, the sort that would probably be helped by a professional.

But you gotta admit you have a problem before you can address it. As long as nate insists that every brain works his way, he's going to normalize his incapacitating perseveration and avoid actions that could help him overcome this debilitating condition.

nate, dude: it's possible to have fun sexy thoughts and not perseverate on them.
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So the lesson for the next person is to keep his or her thoughts to his or her self, and learn nothing, lest there be burning eyes. Got it.
I thought you couldn't get any wronger than your first sentence, but then I read the second sentence.

Last edited by Left Hand of Dorkness; 08-12-2019 at 10:10 PM.
  #133  
Old 08-12-2019, 10:13 PM
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The lesson for the next person is to think about how his words may affect those who read them (including women, or others that he doesn't immediately identify with) and consider rephrasing his thoughts to use less offensive language. I think Nate could have shared his thoughts in a more so m sensitive way. Of course, I also think he could have moved his eyes back to the road, and away from the beautiful woman, so who knows, maybe I'm wrong about that.
  #134  
Old 08-12-2019, 10:16 PM
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I thought you couldn't get any wronger than your first sentence, but then I read the second sentence.
You didn't read my post.
  #135  
Old 08-12-2019, 10:28 PM
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I understand this as a dude thing, part of the spectrum of dude stuff, and I don't know there's an easy answer.

Though a man will respond sexually (in thought) to some of the stuff the OP describes, it's not to such a simplistic or regressive extent. (IOW do *not* lump all dudes in with this response dynamic.) Most men I'll guess have more complex/nuanced responses to the situations described, probably a mixture of sexual thoughts, physiological arousal, but with a fair amount of higher brain centers chiming in (like "this woman has her own stuff she's doing, and sex etc. may be the farthest thing from her mind", or, I dunno, "this woman probably doesn't like being ogled, objectified, etc., no matter how attractive she is", and/or "I'm in public, with expectations of behavior/decorum in context, so I need to keep my eyes inside my skull").

Not judging the OP, but this sounds like a combination of impulse control, and a kind of lack of maturity.

I don't know what you can do about the former (Skinnerian approach? shock collar? just kidding).

For the latter, there's growth work you could do. Any religion has stuff to say about this, even if you just take it secularly.

For example, I believe it's in some Eastern faiths, you have the three "lower" centers, these being health, wealth, and progeny. These are the basic, lower urges. The last is in play here with the sex response, the urge, loosely speaking, to procreate. The "higher" center is (sounds corny, yeah, but anyway) the heart center, or compassion. One of the reasons the OP's OP rankles so much (and I'm on board with condemning the questionable judgement to post something like that, especially where you know it's going to be viewed in mixed company), is it seems to lack compassion. So you have a lower center, unmitigated (as it might be in a more mature mindscape) with much in the way of compassion.

Some dudes, I think, for good or ill, are just wired like this. And I make no judgement whatsoever. I'd focus on the compassion end, FWIW.
  #136  
Old 08-13-2019, 12:29 AM
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At this point, it sounds like nate is describing a mental illness. Having so little control over your mental stability that a fairly common occurrence can completely throw you off your game and render you unable to function in society?

[. . . ]

Second, that's a description of a mental problem, the sort that would probably be helped by a professional.
If his problem is actually as described, then it does take professional help. I know.

For me, it’s not the sight of sexy /beautiful women which trigger me, but certain things which cause a PTSD flashback. Mine is an emotional disorder rather than a mental illness, but it would likely require a professional to diagnose someone if they actually were as actually incapable of exerting control as reported by the OP.

Because of the large number of veterans who have PTSD, there has been a considerable amount of research into the physical changes within the brain circuitry which cause this type of mental hijack.

If it’s a case of simply giving into desires, then the advice to “grow up” is right on. If it’s more serious and the OP literally has no control then it

Trained professionals can help. CBT doesn’t do anything, it took specialize therapy designed for PTSD. Fortunately, it has been quite effective.

They must have something similar for this.
  #137  
Old 08-13-2019, 01:10 AM
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Most men I'll guess have more complex/nuanced responses to the situations described, probably a mixture of sexual thoughts, physiological arousal, but with a fair amount of higher brain centers chiming in (like "this woman has her own stuff she's doing, and sex etc. may be the farthest thing from her mind", or, I dunno, "this woman probably doesn't like being ogled, objectified, etc., no matter how attractive she is", and/or "I'm in public, with expectations of behavior/decorum in context, so I need to keep my eyes inside my skull").
Just noting that women in general have all these responses too. Being aroused and thinking sexual thoughts about a random attractive person, with accompanying conscious self-supervision, is not at all an exclusively "dude thing".

Maybe becoming sexually fixated on a random attractive person to the extent of being unable to control one's behavior is a more male than female tendency, but from the responses here it doesn't sound at all representative of men either.
  #138  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:01 AM
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That's like saying someone on a diet should take a second look at that hamburger because it might reveal it has bad toppings. Also, we're talking about another person, how many "second glances" do you figure they are comfortable with?
None of the glances should be obvious. I was just disabusing Manda JO of the notion that turning one's head would eliminate a distraction.
And I'm not advising second glances. Men should be mature enough to get over it right away.
  #139  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:33 AM
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I think I misunderstood your post. I thought your final sentence about outgrowing that level was related to the 5 or 6 thoughts per day, sounds like you were really referring to the all day long non-interrupted.
Well, to that one and to the 5 or 6 hours-long ones of our male classmates That's a big chunk of maturing as a human being, changing how much of your thinking is done by different body parts.
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Last edited by Nava; 08-13-2019 at 02:36 AM.
  #140  
Old 08-13-2019, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by nate View Post
...just sent my mind off into imagining having sex with her. It was distracting and I lost interest in the documentary.
Up to this point you were normal.
But most men have the mental ability to experience that first thought, recognize it as inappropriate for the situation, and file it away so that they can continue functioning as decent human beings.
This process should take well under a second, thus it does not even distract the primary train of thought.

You might want to look up such terms as "impulse control"
  #141  
Old 08-13-2019, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
At this point, it sounds like nate is describing a mental illness. Having so little control over your mental stability that a fairly common occurrence can completely throw you off your game and render you unable to function in society?

First, that ain't 98% of people. If it were, there'd be a lot more car crashes.

Second, that's a description of a mental problem, the sort that would probably be helped by a professional.
Consulting a professional might be embarrassing, I presume that's why nate went online. Not that it's a bad idea.

But yes, if it affects your driving and causes you to ignore someone talking to you, especially when it's your wife telling you to stop that, it's a problem. Not an insolvable problem, not an identity-defining problem but a problem that should be worked on.

Nate, right now, try looking at pictures of women you find attractive for 10 seconds then look away and don't come back to them for an hour. If you can't do that, don't think 98% of men are like you. It's the other way around. The more you indulge that trait, the stronger and more difficult to dig yourself out of it's going to get.

Last edited by MichaelEmouse; 08-13-2019 at 04:34 AM.
  #142  
Old 08-13-2019, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Slow Moving Vehicle View Post
You’re right, you can’t not see an attractive woman or man. What you can do is not post on a message board how you’d like to “fuck the hell out of that”, or continue to ogle even after your wife has expressed her discomfort. You’re not culpable for every sexy thought that passes through your hindbrain; but you are responsible how you act on them. Saying “Damn, I’d like to fuck the hell out of that” - and you really should go back and re-read Manda JO’s posts on how demeaning it is to be referred to as a “that” - is acting on your impulses. Which is why you’re being taken to task in this thread.
I find it amusing that the op is taken to task for objectifying women by using the word “that” as if saying, “Damn, I’d like to fuck the hell out of her” would have been perfectly acceptable.

Last edited by CaptainE; 08-13-2019 at 06:52 AM.
  #143  
Old 08-13-2019, 08:35 AM
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So the lesson for the next person is to keep his or her thoughts to his or her self, and learn nothing, lest there be burning eyes. Got it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
The lesson for the next person is to think about how his words may affect those who read them (including women, or others that he doesn't immediately identify with) and consider rephrasing his thoughts to use less offensive language. I think Nate could have shared his thoughts in a more so m sensitive way. Of course, I also think he could have moved his eyes back to the road, and away from the beautiful woman, so who knows, maybe I'm wrong about that.
Can’t put it any better than that.
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  #144  
Old 08-13-2019, 04:05 PM
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I find it amusing that the op is taken to task for objectifying women by using the word “that” as if saying, “Damn, I’d like to fuck the hell out of her” would have been perfectly acceptable.
It would have not been acceptable, but it would have been less objectionable because it at least acknowledges that the object of his desire is a person as opposed to a thing.
  #145  
Old 08-13-2019, 04:21 PM
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If someone is going to have this kind of reaction, looking away might make things worse, since the idealized image is stored. A second glance might reveal imperfections, which we all have, that could reduce the distraction.
Most men learn to hide the distraction by the end of high school.
Speaking as a man, this is absurd. I've looked at breasts. I've looked away from breasts. Looking away does, indeed, lessen the grip the visual stimulus has on your attention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
Just noting that women in general have all these responses too. Being aroused and thinking sexual thoughts about a random attractive person, with accompanying conscious self-supervision, is not at all an exclusively "dude thing".

Maybe becoming sexually fixated on a random attractive person to the extent of being unable to control one's behavior is a more male than female tendency, but from the responses here it doesn't sound at all representative of men either.
I don't think that the varying tendencies are in inherent in the gender; I just think that a man can get away with being a horndog a lot more easily than a woman. We hear it from all directions, how "boys will be boys" and how "we can't help it". If women are hearing such things I'm unaware of it.

This applies double if the person did most of their maturation* more than fifteen years ago.


*so to speak
  #146  
Old 08-13-2019, 05:51 PM
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It also has an effect on your driving. If you really can't think of anything other than sex whenever you see a woman you find attractive, and you can't keep that switch in attention from lasting more than a split second: then please don't drive.

I have an excellent driving record and really low insurance rates as a result. But I have had several close calls over the years, due to the exact thing we are talking about here. If we could do some kind of omniscient research about accidents, I bet this would loom large, right up there with alcohol and texting, as reasons for car crashes. (I look forward to the much safer self-driving car future, even though it will end my nascent Uber-driving “career”.)


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Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
Also, we're talking about another person, how many "second glances" do you figure they are comfortable with?

Sunglasses are very helpful in this regard.


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Originally Posted by Nava View Post
5 or 6 short ones, sure. Our point was that we (a bunch of girls between 17 and 23 who according to the OP have no idea what it's like to have sexual thoughts) only had a single sexual thought each day, one which lasted from "when I woke up" until "when I fell asleep"; we couldn't even pinkyswear that our dreams were perfectly chaste (they probably weren't).

This is super interesting and a great example of why this thread is valuable. So do you call bullshit on the claim we so often hear that men are visual and women are more about a narrative?


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Originally Posted by control-z View Post
If OP didn't realize this was an issue he wouldn't have posted it as a confession. IMO people should help him by explaining rationally what they think is wrong, not shame him or take what he wrote personally. Otherwise other people with confessions like this that see OP getting beat up may just not share at all and can't learn anything by hearing the various opinions and feedback.

This.
  #147  
Old 08-13-2019, 07:52 PM
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So.. you are saying that your concentration or focus is easily interrupted by other biological factors? Ok then, not sure why that’s remarkable much less controversial. Concerning the 98% in your OP I’d dispute that but i don’t have a cite.
  #148  
Old 08-13-2019, 08:50 PM
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So.. you are saying that your concentration or focus is easily interrupted by other biological factors? Ok then, not sure why that’s remarkable much less controversial. Concerning the 98% in your OP I’d dispute that but i don’t have a cite.
No he is not saying that. He's saying he can't watch a tv show or talk with his wife if an attractive woman is in his sightline. Even if the attractive woman is in the tv show he wants to watch.

Last edited by CarnalK; 08-13-2019 at 08:52 PM.
  #149  
Old 08-13-2019, 08:53 PM
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I hereby formally request that this thread get moved to the Pit.
  #150  
Old 08-13-2019, 09:09 PM
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Why? What burning insult will quench your anger? The fact is, guys have been raised forever to accept the mental laziness that the OP displays. Insulting will do little good. nate has to understand that his sex fixation is no better than people who develop elaborate revenge fantasies when they are cut off in traffic. Insults will just make him dig in against the "feminazis".
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