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Old 08-14-2019, 08:26 PM
Kimera757 is offline
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 552
Originally Posted by scr4 View Post
Do you think Lockheed put touchscreens in the F-35 cockpit because it's "cool"?
Outside the military I said...
Old 08-14-2019, 09:50 PM
scr4 is offline
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Alabama
Posts: 15,958
Originally Posted by Kimera757 View Post
Outside the military I said...
You said "I don't expect to see more knobs and switches outside of the military. They aren't `cool'." So I was trying to ask why you think the military uses touchscreens in fighter jets.
Old 08-15-2019, 08:12 AM
YamatoTwinkie is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,260
Originally Posted by Nava View Post
How well do they work when there is a second person in the car whose voice is very similar to yours and who. Doesn't. Shut. The. Hell. Up?
Voice commands are initiated by a manual button press on the steering wheel, so it's not like it's just going to pick up on anything in the cabin, unless it's in the ~5 seconds after you press the button. Although I imagine in that scenario you'd have to wait for your passenger to take a breath first before attempting.
Old 08-15-2019, 09:15 AM
swampspruce's Avatar
swampspruce is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Cool Pool
Posts: 4,430
Originally Posted by scr4 View Post
You said "I don't expect to see more knobs and switches outside of the military. They aren't `cool'." So I was trying to ask why you think the military uses touchscreens in fighter jets.
This paper explains the thinking behind it.

"The cockpit is dominated by a large 20 inch by 8 inch Panoramic Cockpit Display (PCD)which incorporates an integral touchscreen. The fly by wire system is controlled via an active side stick on the right and an active throttle on the left. Active means these inceptors are under complete computer control and can be programmed as to gradient, force feedback, and stops - all on the fly. There are 10 switches on the side stick and 12 on the throttle. The Hands-on Throttle and Stick (HOTAS) are mapped to the most used tactical and subsystem time critical functions."

It further explains that this enables the pilot to choose how their data is arranged and they can select what is shown. The point that is most important is that which I bolded, all the really important stuff is hands on with dedicated switches. No one has time during battle or in a high pressure situation to be screwing around with sub-menus.
Life is an economy. Where everything must be traded for something else and the value of all things rise and fall with the amount of attention and effort you put into them. -Mark Manson

Last edited by swampspruce; 08-15-2019 at 09:15 AM.
Old 08-15-2019, 06:34 PM
enipla is offline
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Colorado Rockies.
Posts: 14,416
Originally Posted by scr4 View Post
Security. This way, the glove box is locked automatically when the car is off & can't be opened even if someone smashes the window to break in. No need to use a physical key to lock/unlock it.

You could achieve the same by having an electro-mechanical lock and a physical latch, and having the car unlock it whenever the car is turned on. But that would be more complex & expensive than just an electro-mechanical latch.
:shrug: Ok. I thought you would have to go through the touch screen to open it period. Not just lock it.
I don't live in the middle of nowhere, but I can see it from here.
Old 08-16-2019, 11:16 AM
steadicam is offline
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 12


That as may be, but the fact is touch screens have no tactile feedback save haptic vibrations. The Navy isn't stupid in this case you need to be a to grab a hold of something in high seas and controlled it precisely. NO touchscreen can do that. Try using your iPad while riding in the back of a city bus as it goes over a pot hole and you will see what I mean. The other problem as mentioned before is you have to look at it. I do not know of anyone who can touch type with a touch screen without looking at it.If touch screens are so great why does the airplane landing gear knob have a little wheel on the end ? I mean you could easily bury that sucker two or three menus deep on touch screen.
Originally Posted by pullin View Post
I've spent some portion of my life implementing touch screens for aircraft (usually single pilot). I've also sat in on more than a few PVI meetings that included pilots as we worked out flows. You can relax, at least a little (assuming the commercial folks use similar designs). The touchscreens on iBaubles and cars were designed by the art department. In the real world where actual utility is the goal, they're much more usable and don't look like a child's coloring book. This will shock some people, but us research engineers discovered something that has evaded almost every single artsy fartsy designer in modern product development. There's this thing called the English Language. And it has letters! And you put these letters next to a control to convey an exact meaning about its purpose. No really -- it works perfectly, although some abbreviation is necessary due to real estate.

Unless Boeing decides to do something phenomenally stupid like contract their UI work to cheap programmers in Mumbai, the new touchscreens should be quite good.
Old 08-18-2019, 03:01 AM
MarvinKitFox is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 267
Touchscreen requires you to divert your eyes to the control, to operate it.
So ANY situation where your visual focus is needed elsewhere while operating the control, makes touchscreen a bad idea. YES this includes driving a car!

Touchscreen requires accuracy of touch. With a mechanical control you can use tactile feedback to know when you have the control in hand, and then activate it. Again, tactile feedback gives you confirmation of the action you input without having to look at it. AGAIN, this makes touchscreens when driving vehicle a bad idea. Doubly so if the driver is subject to inertial forces (being shaken around) which is rather common in vehicles!

About now you people will start blathering about "but all modern airliners use touchscreens".
Yes, yes they do. For actions *other* than primary control. And modern airliners have TWO drivers. One acting as hands-on pilot, who uses *mechanical* controls to actually fly the plane, and the co-pilot who does the comms, settings, and fiddly stuff on the touchscreen.

Touchscreens are great for reducing the complexity of a control panel, and for improving versatility of information display. But they *inevitably* reduce control input accuracy and they require visual attention to operate.

Imagine if you put your car's brakes on a touchscreen. Argh, a child is running onto the road! eyes to touchscreen. Select controls menu. Select brake slider. move slider to max. Look in mirror to see distant red splat on road.
Erm. I mean, look at touchscreen again. close brake menu, select visuals menu. select rearview mirrors. select central mirror. bring up picture, *then* see the damage.

Some things should NOT be touchscreened!


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