Straight Dope Message Board

[Le Ministre de l'au-delà]

I wanted show you lot this clip - Dhani Harrison, Sir George Martin and Giles Martin (son of Sir George.) listening to 'Here Comes the Sun', where they reveal that there was a guitar solo at one time.

And I was just a little verklempt when Sir George says to Dhani at the end "You're just like your father!" 2251

[Le Ministre de l'au-delà]

Perhaps of interest, howe'er peripheral - Michael Schreiner repairs a friend's theorbo, following the the guidance of Thomas Mace.

I think I may have linked to Michael S. before - watching him lift the soundboard off a theorbo to repair the 'harmonic bars' (bracing, to a modern guitar tech) in this episode is spectacularly cool. 2252

[BigShooter]

Hey guys. I haven't written in the thread in a while, but I've been lurking and always enjoy reading how you guys are getting along with your guitars.

I wanted to show all you guys one of the band projects I'm involved with right now. It's a alt-country/"twang"-rock kind of thing with elements of folk and punk as well. Here's the link: Hidebehind

I post this not as an advertisement or spam so I hope it's not taken that way and if a moderator feels that it is, then I'll understand if the post is deleted. I'm actually posting this because I'd like your opinions on the guitar work, tones, and production value overall. This is the first band project that I've produced and engineered on my own and I'm curious as to whether it sounds up to par with what's out there commercially. I'm the lead guitar player so all the leads are me and I also did half the rhythm work.

Be brutally honest - you won't hurt my feelings. Years of playing music has made my skin pretty thick. 2253

[CookingWithGas]

Originally Posted by BigShooter

I'm curious as to whether it sounds up to par with what's out there commercially.

This stuff sounds really good. The musicianship is as good as any out there. It isn't in-your-face-look-at-how-many-notes-I-can-play, which is a plus. I especially like the way that The Ladder starts out with this bluegrass mandolin and then comes this seamless blend with electric instruments. The guitar work in Elizabeth is really tasty. Production quality is pretty good, too. I have to say, though, that the vocals are an acquired taste. 2254

[WordMan]

Oooo - I look forward to listening to this in the next day or so... 2255

[BigShooter]

Originally Posted by CookingWithGas

This stuff sounds really good. The musicianship is as good as any out there. It isn't in-your-face-look-at-how-many-notes-I-can-play, which is a plus. I especially like the way that The Ladder starts out with this bluegrass mandolin and then comes this seamless blend with electric instruments. The guitar work in Elizabeth is really tasty. Production quality is pretty good, too. I have to say, though, that the vocals are an acquired taste.

Thanks, man! Glad you liked it. Our singer does have that whiny, Dylan-esque quality to his voice that can be a little grating to some ears. But personally, I like it and think it fits the music well.

Originally Posted by WordMan

Oooo - I look forward to listening to this in the next day or so...

Cool - I look forward to your comments in particular since we seem to have very similar tastes when it comes to music. 2256

[DoctorJ]

So I'm feeling some acoustic GAS.

I was all set to pull the trigger on a Godin Fifth Avenue Kingpin II a couple of years ago, when I decided I wanted a solid-body instead and got my now-beloved Telecaster instead. But now it's time to scratch that acoustic itch.

The Godin is still at the top of the list--I like versatility in a guitar, and that one seems to do a lot of things well. I've played a few and loved them. But what are some other good acoustic options in that price range ($1K or so) I should try out? I don't want to spend a ton; I played a $3K Taylor that spoke to me, but I really don't want to spend that and the lower-end Taylors didn't do as much for me.

So have any acoustics turned anyone's crank lately? 2257

[BigShooter]

Man, can my music kill a thread or what?! C'mon fellas, it's not THAT bad is it?

Well, back to guitars - I got a new guitar build brewing. Got a few nice pieces of koa when I was in Hawaii a while back and I figured I better get to doing something with them:

http://i42.tinypic.com/2937n0m.jpg

I bet there's a Tele hiding in there someplace... 2258

[moveover]

So I need some strings for a semi-hollow electric (shechter). I go to the Gibson forums and do a search re best strings. I get nothing. Either their search function is garbage or that subject never comes up.
Anyone here have an opinion as to the best make? 2259

[squeegee]

Glad you got wood, BigShooter

Originally Posted by moveover

So I need some strings for a semi-hollow electric (shechter). I go to the Gibson forums and do a search re best strings. I get nothing. Either their search function is garbage or that subject never comes up. Anyone here have an opinion as to the best make?

I don't think there is a "best" string maker. It's a personal preference.

I've been using Dean Markley's for electric since forever. Possibly because they work well enough that I see no reason to try something else.

In other news, I see Fender is now making a carved top Tele. How weird is that? Better image here that shows the carveness. 2260

[Le Ministre de l'au-delà]

BigShooter - I'm sorry, I meant to listen to your stuff last weekend. Then, I got busy, kids got sick, I got sick... I'll listen over the weekend and give you something on Monday.

moveover - I've been using D'Addario strings for ages now, and they've always worked out well for me. The biggest question is - what kind of sound do you want? I've just switched my Tele over from flat wounds to round wounds - that 'stuffy' jazz sound is harder to achieve, but the harmonics are so much clearer and there's so much more kick to the bridge pickup that it's worth it by me. What are you after, though? 2261

[moveover]

Actually, t's that stuffy jazz guitar sound that I'm looking for! So i guess flat wound would be the way to go? And I'll give D'Addario a try.
Thanks all. 2262

[squeegee]

Originally Posted by BigShooter

Man, can my music kill a thread or what?! C'mon fellas, it's not THAT bad is it?

Actually, I listened to a couple and really liked them. But I need to take some time to go back and listen a few more times; I find it hard to digest this stuff in one playing, and I've been just utterly buried the last week or so. I will give it more listens. I do share some small misgivings about the singer, but the rest of the music sounds top notch. 2263

[WordMan]

Originally Posted by BigShooter

Man, can my music kill a thread or what?! C'mon fellas, it's not THAT bad is it?

Well, back to guitars - I got a new guitar build brewing. Got a few nice pieces of koa when I was in Hawaii a while back and I figured I better get to doing something with them:

http://i42.tinypic.com/2937n0m.jpg

I bet there's a Tele hiding in there someplace...

Oh, man, I am sorry, BigShooter. We've had a few huge fires at work; the past couple of months have not been fun. I've barely been able to play guitar at home and barely able to hang out on the SDMB to take a mental break at work...

However, I *did* listen to a few tracks and basically agree with CookingwithGas - I really like the musicianship and really like the production quality - the parts are layered and leveled really well so they work together as a piece. The guitars sound really good. Great job. As for the vocals - there's a fine line between authentic character and affected style. For instance, some Kings of Leon/Caleb Followill tracks sound totally great to me; some sound like he is purposefully being obtuse and I want to smack him. I would need to live with the tracks for a while to see where I land on this one.

And if I am not getting back sooner, please know that I would MUCH rather be hanging out and talking guitars and music on the SDMB...

ETA: oh, and that Koa looks GORGEOUS! A simple body design like a Tele would really make the grain pop. 2264

[Shakester]

I just ordered a bass VI.

A Schecter Ultra VI in Silverburst, to be precise.

I've long admired Fender Bass VIs but couldn't justify the price, and I'm really not too keen on the looks of the Schecter Hellcat VI, which looks like a poor man's Fender Bass VI. The headstock in particular bugs me. Do not like.

But I recently discovered the Ultra VI and I do like it. So much so that I have caved in to GAS after a couple of days of thinking it over. Well, last time I played a Fender Bass VI I spent weeks agonising over the fact that I loved it but that it was wildly expensive. Decided to pass, but it was a hard decision. Every time I pick up a bass VI I don't want to put it down again.

The Ultra VI is less than half what the Fender would have cost, it's different enough that it's not just a wannabe Fender (actually has more of a Gibson style: mahogany body and set neck) and I had some money burning a hole in my pocket. Done deal.

I'm in Australia, it won't be here for a week or two. Ah, well. If it doesn't end up grabbing me I'm sure I can sell it off here without much difficulty. 2265

[WordMan]

Congratulations Shakester - given the atmospheric stuff you do, will you play it like a bass that happens to have six strings, or is it more of a cool noise generator that has a broader range?

Also - the link you have seems to suggest that the bass has bolt-on neck; no biggie to me, but I noted that you said it had a set neck. Either way, congrats and best of luck with it... 2266

[Shakester]

Originally Posted by WordMan

Congratulations Shakester - given the atmospheric stuff you do, will you play it like a bass that happens to have six strings, or is it more of a cool noise generator that has a broader range?

Like a big nylon-string guitar, really. When I've tried sixes what I've found works well on them is classical/Spanish-type playing. I'm not a classical player, but I can do a sort-of psuedo-folk-guitar thing that sounds pretty good. Full chords can get a bit muddy on a six, but arpeggios sound good. I'm a big fan of early 60s surf-instrumental music, and there's a lot of bass-6 stuff on that, Duane Eddy, that sort of thing. Spaghetti Western music.

I'm intending to use it with my guitar/violin band, which is probably adding more members in the near future. Hopefully we'll be able to do more gigs and make some recordings this year - busyness with more mundane things takes a toll, as I'm sure you know.

Originally Posted by WordMan

Also - the link you have seems to suggest that the bass has bolt-on neck; no biggie to me, but I noted that you said it had a set neck. Either way, congrats and best of luck with it...

It says Construction: Set Neck in the Specs list. Owner reviews I've read on the net (and the Schecter product video) confirm that it's a set neck. 2267

[squeegee]

Originally Posted by Shakester

I just ordered a bass VI.

A Schecter Ultra VI in Silverburst, to be precise.

So, wait sec: is that a six string bass or a baritone electric? Or is that the same thing? 2268

[Shakester]

Originally Posted by squeegee

So, wait sec: is that a six string bass or a baritone electric? Or is that the same thing?

It's a six string bass. The line between baritones/basses gets blurry, but in general anything with a scale length of 30 inches or more is a bass... however, some people have installed baritone strings on 30 inch scale instruments and made, for want of a better description, long scale baritones.

So perhaps the dividing line is what strings you use and what you tune it to: an octave below standard guitar is six-string bass, if you tune it higher than that it's a baritone. "Baritone" string sets are lighter than "bass 6" sets, and on bari sets the two highest strings are plain, while on bass 6 sets they're all wound.

I'll be tuning mine to bass 6 tuning, but with the shorter scale (than a regular Fender-scale bass) the low E string can get pretty mushy. I've ordered some bass vi string sets, so I'll see how that goes. The low E on the sets I've ordered are .095, which is heavier than in most bass six sets, and if it's still mushy I'll see if I can find any 30 inch scale .100 strings. 2269

[WordMan]

Originally Posted by Shakester

Like a big nylon-string guitar, really. When I've tried sixes what I've found works well on them is classical/Spanish-type playing. I'm not a classical player, but I can do a sort-of psuedo-folk-guitar thing that sounds pretty good. Full chords can get a bit muddy on a six, but arpeggios sound good. I'm a big fan of early 60s surf-instrumental music, and there's a lot of bass-6 stuff on that, Duane Eddy, that sort of thing. Spaghetti Western music.

That sounds like it would sound very cool. 2270

[Stormcrow]

I'm looking for advice on a guitar for a new player - I'm making "learn to play the guitar" a goal of mine over the next year or two, and I'm not sure what i should get.

I'm shooting for something a little bit rock-n-roll. Generally I'd like to be able to go for anything from late Beatles to White Stripes, Radiohead, and alternative rock. I'm not a big metal head, so thats not a goal, nor am I into things in a more folk or country vein. Any ideas on what I should get? I figure that I'm comfortable going up to $400 or so. I'd also like to get a headphone amp set up rather than a full amp, as I live in a condo with fairly thin walls and I don't want to be too loud. Some sort of effects setup will be needed, whether at start or later on. Suggestions on good options for all of those would be great.

I do have a friend who can go with me to Guitar Center or wherever (I'm in Chicago) in order to try out the instruments to help me pick out the specific guitar (as it would do very little good for me to try them out personally at this point). I'm also planning on taking lessons to start...

Thanks in advance for any advice! 2271

[squeegee]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

I'm looking for advice on a guitar for a new player - I'm making "learn to play the guitar" a goal of mine over the next year or two, and I'm not sure what i should get.

I'm shooting for something a little bit rock-n-roll. Generally I'd like to be able to go for anything from late Beatles to White Stripes, Radiohead, and alternative rock. I'm not a big metal head, so thats not a goal, nor am I into things in a more folk or country vein. Any ideas on what I should get? I figure that I'm comfortable going up to $400 or so.

A MIM* Telecaster is a good choice. Simplest/straightforward guitar on earth, good reputation, works for country, rock, punk, alt, whatever. Examples here, here. Stay away from any Fender named "Squier".

*"Made In Mexico", AKA "Fender Standard Telecaster", although there have been several other MIM models by name.

I do have a friend who can go with me to Guitar Center or wherever (I'm in Chicago) in order to try out the instruments to help me pick out the specific guitar (as it would do very little good for me to try them out personally at this point).

This is an excellent idea. I don't know your friend's skills, but having someone along who knows the first thing about guitars and can give you some basic ideas is a step up when shopping.

I'm also planning on taking lessons to start...

This is also an excellent idea. Having a teacher who can give you the basics, and especially get you on an ongoing program to improve your skills every week is huge. I remember taking lessons as a new player and how fast that got me up to speed, and I can't imagine how fast (or even if) I could have done the same on my own. 2272

[Shakester]

Originally Posted by squeegee

Stay away from any Fender named "Squier".

Disagree. The lower end Squiers, like the Affinity line, are crappy, but the higher end, like the Classic Vibe range, are good guitars.

I'll agree that a MIM Tele is a good choice, though. 2273

[squeegee]

Originally Posted by Shakester

Disagree. The lower end Squiers, like the Affinity line, are crappy, but the higher end, like the Classic Vibe range, are good guitars. I'll agree that a MIM Tele is a good choice, though.

Apparently I hadn't been paying attention - I wasn't aware there was a high-end v low-end Squier. Thanks. 2274

[Shakester]

Originally Posted by squeegee

Apparently I hadn't been paying attention - I wasn't aware there was a high-end v low-end Squier. Thanks.

In my opinion, the higher end of the Squier line are at MIJ levels of quality nowadays. I own a Squier Jaguar Bass (one of the long scale ones) and I love it. I was expecting to have to do some work on it and maybe replace the electronics and so on, but I haven't done a thing on it other than install a thumb-rest. Even the Duncan Designed pickups sound really nice. 2275

[Ximenean]

Yeah, I have a Classic Vibe 60's Strat (and before that a Tele), and when I bought them I compared side-by-side to Fender Mexico equivalents. The CV Squiers were better-finished and sounded at least as good, to me. The Strat in particular seems to have top-notch pickups. 2276

[phungi]

Following up on the Strat/Squire discussion, I am thinking of getting a Strat, and do not have the $1000 or so for an American model... recommendations for MIM vs MIJ vs Squires? 2277

[GreenElf]

I'm learning to flatpick rather than fingerpick on acoustic guitar, and was wondering how much precision I should seek while flatpicking chords. It's more difficult to avoid hitting unwanted strings or for a small chord, such as two notes, to hit just those two notes with a flatpick.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gibson_players) 2278

[GreenElf]

Here's of a few guitar lists:
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gibson_players
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...caster_players
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...caster_players
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretsch...otable_players) 2279

[BubbaDog]

Originally Posted by Shakester

Disagree. The lower end Squiers, like the Affinity line, are crappy, but the higher end, like the Classic Vibe range, are good guitars.

I'll agree that a MIM Tele is a good choice, though.

I bought an Affinity Squier about 5 years ago when I wanted to start learning Electric guitar. It has fantastic action and stays in tune through some harsh playing. But the electronics are tinker toys.

A few years later I picked up a Gibson SG. The action is a little harder and the "feel" of the guitar just never is comfortable with me but the tone is heaven.

I find that I play the $150 Squier more than the $800 SG.

In fact, I'm seriously thinking about replacing the guts with one of those pre-loaded pick-guard setups with some Seymour Duncans. So I'd be putting about $350 improvement on a $150 guitar. Sounds silly but I like the feel of that Squier so much I don't mind. I just want it to sound better. 2280

[Shakester]

Originally Posted by BubbaDog

I bought an Affinity Squier about 5 years ago when I wanted to start learning Electric guitar. It has fantastic action and stays in tune through some harsh playing. But the electronics are tinker toys.

A few years later I picked up a Gibson SG. The action is a little harder and the "feel" of the guitar just never is comfortable with me but the tone is heaven.

I find that I play the $150 Squier more than the $800 SG.

In fact, I'm seriously thinking about replacing the guts with one of those pre-loaded pick-guard setups with some Seymour Duncans. So I'd be putting about $350 improvement on a $150 guitar. Sounds silly but I like the feel of that Squier so much I don't mind. I just want it to sound better.

Oh, nothing at all wrong with that. I should have known that if I said "Affinitys are rubbish" someone would come along and mention one that isn't. That's true of any guitar, any brand: there will be some that are particularly good.

Compared to the "entry level" guitars of a few decades ago, even the lowest end of the guitar spectrum is surprisingly usable. It's a gamble, though: with the bottom end I'd have to try before buying, while up a few notches in price/quality I'd feel more inclined to buy online as the quality is generally a bit more even.

It's also worth mentioning that even high-priced "premium" guitar brands make the occasional dog, which is a lot less forgivable than a bad budget guitar. 2281

[Quasimodem]

Is that thing named after Billy Squier, (the guy who did that "sweep" song)?

And this brings up another dumb question (I call 'em "Quasi-Q's"): Why are some guitar companies allowed to farg with Fender, et al styles? Shouldn't there be a copyright in place?

I know that some Strats are made in Mexico (I own one - bought it w/o reading the small print).

And I know the orginals are expensive as hell, but can someone explain this?

Thanks

Q 2282

[squeegee]

Originally Posted by Quasimodem

Why are some guitar companies allowed to farg with Fender, et al styles? Shouldn't there be a copyright in place?

The short answer is objects can't be copyrighted. Works of art (books, plays, songs, yadayada) can be. Designs (e.g. The Nike swoosh(tm)) and even words combinations (e.g. "You deserve a break today!"(tm) ), or even actual words in some context (e.g. "Nike" associated with shoes) can be trademarked , but trademark protection is limited in a bunch of ways. Designs can also be patented, which sounds pretty impressive, but design patents are difficult to defend.

Suffice it to say: Intellectual property law is chock full of gray areas that require lawyers and lawsuits and courts to define, sometimes on an ongoing basis. Protecting the shape of guitar or a headstock or whatever sometimes isn't worth it except if violated blatantly, repeatedly and egregiously. Since there are no trademark or copyright or patent cops, each company must decide where they simply must respond when they think their IP has been violated, and that line is clear as mud.

I'm not an IP attorney, but my father is a retired one, so I've gotten some exposure to this. For more info, contact an IP attorney or violate an IP issue and wait for one to contact you.


ETA: also, Squier is made by Fender. So no issue there. 2283

[Shakester]

Originally Posted by Quasimodem

I know the originals are expensive as hell, but can someone explain this?

Why are original Fenders as expensive as hell? Baby Boomers.

Leo Fender wasn't a genius, but he invented a lot of guitar-related things that worked really well. He sold his namesake company in 1965, and anything made by the original Fender company commands a huge premium because, basically, people believe that Leo Fender sprinkled magic fairy dust on every instrument that came out of his factory. 2284

[Ximenean]

Fender do chase after people who copy their headstock design. For some reason, that appears to be intellectual property that they can and do protect. They probably don't bother with the really small-fry copyists, but you'll note that the more well-known companies who make Strat-a-likes do not copy the headstock shape exactly. Sometimes the difference is minor, but enough for anyone who's remotely familiar with genuine Fenders. Similar story with Gibson knock-offs 2285

[Shakester]

Originally Posted by Ximenean

Fender do chase after people who copy their headstock design. For some reason, that appears to be intellectual property that they can and do protect. They probably don't bother with the really small-fry copyists, but you'll note that the more well-known companies who make Strat-a-likes do not copy the headstock shape exactly. Sometimes the difference is minor, but enough for anyone who's remotely familiar with genuine Fenders. Similar story with Gibson knock-offs

There was only ever one actual lawsuit, and it was about headstock shape.

It was settled out of court, so no judgement was ever made, but in practical terms the outcome was "you can copy body shape all you like but copying headstock shape will get you into trouble". 2286

[WordMan]

Argh. I hate how busy I am at work - I love participating in this type of discussion.

- Fender did try to trademark or otherwise protect the Strat shape a few years ago and it fell through because they couldn't demonstrate proprietary control over the past 50+ years - same way aspirin transitioned from brand to generic word.

- Gibson tried to sue PRS about their SC 245 guitar which is basically PRS' Les Paul and lost.

Of the modern Fenders, Made in Mexico's (MIM's) represent great values - as I have stated previously, 6 - 7 out of 10 you try are likely to be worth checking out. With the Squiers I have tried, it really varies based on country of production, etc., but you can still find good ones, but at a much lower ratio - but worth checking.

Originally Posted by Shakester

Leo Fender wasn't a genius, but he invented a lot of guitar-related things that worked really well. He sold his namesake company in 1965, and anything made by the original Fender company commands a huge premium because, basically, people believe that Leo Fender sprinkled magic fairy dust on every instrument that came out of his factory.

Depends on how you define genius; I hear arguments that Steve Jobs invented very little; his genius was in the taking of what was out there and editing it into a clearly-defined product. In some ways, that is the next level of genius - making the innovative become practical. That is Leo Fender to me in the world of solidbody guitars and tube amps...

As for the relative value of vintage guitars - yeah, given the golden period we are in of guitar construction, I have found it hard to justify big $$ in vintage solidbodies; I love my homebrew parts-o-casters more than most vintage gear I play. But whatever works... 2287

[Stormcrow]

Thanks for all the discussion on this - a MIM Strat might be a really good route for me to take.

Any thoughts on the usefulness of headphone amps? So much of a guitar player's sound comes from choice of amp that I am concerned that without the ability to turn up an amp to decent volume, I'm going to be limited. Ideally I'd like to be able to just jack in to something and plug it into headphones in order to play.

Ultimately I will want to try my hand at recording to my PC and editing/producing music, but thats a long way off. In my dream world, I see myself picking up a new instrument every couple of years to the point where I can record albums in a home studio; I don't have much interest in playing live (I'm way too old to be joining a band!) 2288

[WordMan]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

Thanks for all the discussion on this - a MIM Strat might be a really good route for me to take.

Any thoughts on the usefulness of headphone amps? So much of a guitar player's sound comes from choice of amp that I am concerned that without the ability to turn up an amp to decent volume, I'm going to be limited. Ideally I'd like to be able to just jack in to something and plug it into headphones in order to play.

Ultimately I will want to try my hand at recording to my PC and editing/producing music, but thats a long way off. In my dream world, I see myself picking up a new instrument every couple of years to the point where I can record albums in a home studio; I don't have much interest in playing live (I'm way too old to be joining a band!)

If a headphone amp keeps you playing, you should strongly consider one. You can sort out what type of standard amp you need as a separate issue. For what it is worth, I simply play my solidbodies unplugged all the time - did last night watching the Daily Show...works for me. 2289

[Shakester]

Some small amps actually have headphone jacks. You don't want to try plugging headphones into sockets that aren't designed for them, though; that can kill your headphones and possibly your amp too. 2290

[Shakester]

Originally Posted by WordMan

Depends on how you define genius; I hear arguments that Steve Jobs invented very little; his genius was in the taking of what was out there and editing it into a clearly-defined product. In some ways, that is the next level of genius - making the innovative become practical. That is Leo Fender to me in the world of solidbody guitars and tube amps...

That's a fair argument, I don't want to minimise Leo Fender's wonderful contribution to the world of music. I'm just saying that there's a difference between being a great inventor and being magical pixie dust guy. Some people act like pre-CBS Fenders are holy relics of St Leo, which is why they're so expensive. The market is dominated by collectors (rich baby boomers buying an iconic part of the late 50s/early 60s) rather than working musicians.

Any improvement to a vintage Fender, like refretting or replacing worn-out tuning keys - things that make a guitar a musical instrument rather than an expensive decoration - decrease the value. You can "ruin" an old guitar by making it playable. That's just nuts, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by WordMan

As for the relative value of vintage guitars - yeah, given the golden period we are in of guitar construction, I have found it hard to justify big $$ in vintage solidbodies; I love my homebrew parts-o-casters more than most vintage gear I play. But whatever works...

Agreed. Personally, I think the great majority of things that are said about guitars by guitarists are complete nonsense. That's why I don't really do guitar forums any more. Critical thinking skills and the world of electric guitars don't seem to mix very often. 2291

[WordMan]

Originally Posted by Shakester

The market is dominated by collectors (rich baby boomers buying an iconic part of the late 50s/early 60s) rather than working musicians.

Any improvement to a vintage Fender, like refretting or replacing worn-out tuning keys - things that make a guitar a musical instrument rather than an expensive decoration - decrease the value. You can "ruin" an old guitar by making it playable. That's just nuts, in my opinion.

Agreed. Personally, I think the great majority of things that are said about guitars by guitarists are complete nonsense. That's why I don't really do guitar forums any more. Critical thinking skills and the world of electric guitars don't seem to mix very often.

I hear you on all fronts. By the same token, while it is too bad that working tools from the 50's and 60's are priced out of the working musician's price range, what is left is great stuff - new MIM Fenders, Squiers. So it's not like we're getting left only crappy scraps. 2292

[squeegee]

I have a question -- I'm trying to understand the current Gibson Les Paul lineup (standard, traditional, standard tradition pro plus top OMFG) and ran into something I don't understand. Perusing GC's web site I see that, for example, this guitar comes in seven finishes, some of which are labeled "with serial #", and you can select what serial number you want on a secondary list, which is sorted by location (e.g. "Fall's Church, VA").

1) What the hell is that all about? Why are they spoofing serial numbers?
2) If you choose one of these "serial number" finishes, are you basically counterfeiting some historic guitar?
3) And if you do so, is there no "actual" serial number for that guitar?
4) And you don't, do the other finishes have NO serial #? 2293

[WordMan]

I don't know any of the specifics to answer your question, but there are some actual '58's, etc, with famous serial numbers; I'm embarrassed to admit that I'm pretty sure Jeff Beck's most-used 'burst was 9 8064 or thereabouts, and that Pagey's #1 has no serial number after some work on the neck to reshape the contour of the back.

There is serial number douchebaggery, certainly. There is a very pricey book about 1st-gen Tele's called the Blackguard Book. It was issued in a limited edition with serial numbers matching actual Tele records. It is a "thing" to match your book edition with your actual Tele 2294

[Shakester]

Originally Posted by squeegee

1) What the hell is that all about? Why are they spoofing serial numbers?
2) If you choose one of these "serial number" finishes, are you basically counterfeiting some historic guitar?
3) And if you do so, is there no "actual" serial number for that guitar?
4) And you don't, do the other finishes have NO serial #?

My guess is that you can "apply for" a serial number, and if it isn't already taken, they'll put it on the guitar for you.

Of course it's also possible that Gibson doesn't give a hoot about doubling (or more) and will put any number you want on a guitar if you give them a bunch of money. 2295

[Shakester]

I received my Schecter Ultra VI a few days ago and I'm loving it. I am awaiting delivery of some heavier string sets, though, as the standard set are a little too light. Plus I don't have a bass amp so I can't, at this stage, crank it.

Continuing the spending spree, I was looking at bass-related stuff online and got to reading about the Ashbory bass. I've always been intrigued by the Ashbory but just assumed that they were expensive.

They're not. I found a site selling them for US$227, and another US$50-ish shipping to Australia. US$280-ish? That's approx $260 in Australian monies; I can afford that. I can afford that right now, without having to think about it. SOLD!

So I spent a few hours reading about them and their quirks, and I reckon I'll get enough use out of it to make it worthwhile. Plus they're tiny, so finding room for it isn't a problem.

I now own three basses, though, which is a bit of a worrying trend. 2296

[Le Ministre de l'au-delà]

Originally Posted by Shakester

I now own three basses, though, which is a bit of a worrying trend.

I wouldn't worry; most of us have trouble getting to first bass.


2297

[Shakester]

Originally Posted by Le Ministre de l'au-delà

I wouldn't worry; most of us have trouble getting to first bass.

Well played, sir! 2298

[E-Sabbath]

Watch your weasel, man. It might start popping on you.

Oh, due to an incident where a friend thought he was Pete Townsend, Trouble, my Telemaster, is now, ah, slightly disfigured. I am pissed beyond belief.
How do you forget you're not playing your own guitar? Still, I got a replacement. Xaviere's discontinuing the model, so I had to take what they had left in stock. Behold, the Creamsicle!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...icleInCase.jpg
Not the same as Trouble, ( http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...erIMG_0017.jpg ) but it's got its own style. 2299

[squeegee]

Originally Posted by E-Sabbath

Watch your weasel, man. It might start popping on you.

Oh, due to an incident where a friend thought he was Pete Townsend, Trouble, my Telemaster, is now, ah, slightly disfigured. I am pissed beyond belief.
How do you forget you're not playing your own guitar?

Oooh, ow. That sucks.

Still, I got a replacement. Xaviere's discontinuing the model, so I had to take what they had left in stock. Behold, the Creamsicle!

I kinda like the orange. Not as much as a burst on the injured axe, but it's not bad at all. 2300