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  #251  
Old 10-03-2018, 08:57 AM
Modesty Blaise Modesty Blaise is offline
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Originally Posted by Nava View Post
The article Acsenray linked points out another one: fear of hurting the people you tell, by your telling. Another one: fear that people will never look at you the same way again, that forever more they'll see you either as broken or as needing to be kept into a protective bubble, neither of which is true.
Wow. Yes.

Not telling even those close to you because it will forever change how they see you. That is why millions of women telling their stories all at once is so powerful. It helps free us of these fears when we know we're not alone.
  #252  
Old 10-03-2018, 09:05 AM
Not Carlson Not Carlson is offline
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Originally Posted by BigT View Post
oops.
Just wanted to say, that remark under your avatar may be the cutest thing I've seen on this board.


On topic, thank you to all of you brave and wonderful people who have shared your personal experiences here.
It's made me stop and think how I can make myself more available to talk with my kids and let them know they always have my ear.
  #253  
Old 10-03-2018, 09:25 AM
Nava Nava is offline
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Originally Posted by Modesty Blaise View Post
That’s how I saw it as a kid anyway. None of it is my fault, but I certainly felt it was.

Also, the shame. I knew what was happening was wrong, but people finding out about it seemed worse than it just continuing. How awful is that?
It was something completely different, but I love drawing. When I was 5 I stopped drawing until I had it as a subject in 5th grade: being in K2, I drew something the teacher found strange enough to grab the picture in one hand, me in the other, take me to see the Mother Director, and the Mother called my mother, and the two Mother Goddesses proceeded to bark at each other at levels that had me about shitting myself (I mean, I'm sure no actual yelling was involved, but the levels of acid in the room were starting to attack Mom's wedding ring) and nobody explained to me that I had done nothing wrong. (The drawing was just "ahead of my age" FFS).




One of the hardest things when you're training someone is understanding what do they get and what not. Something can be obvious to the teacher and completely incomprehensible to the student; some times, there is also a language barrier, as the student has a pretty clear idea about which part they don't get, what they don't know is how to explain it; other times, the student has understood what was explained, but it was explained badly. Also, only because someone can repeat something exactly that doesn't mean they've comprehended it. This goes to infinity with kids, and being a parent is all about teaching.
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Last edited by Nava; 10-03-2018 at 09:27 AM.
  #254  
Old 10-03-2018, 01:43 PM
Folacin Folacin is offline
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I wonder what those people will do once they get their way? Find a new fetish to rally around or just melt away?
But they're not going to win - if Roe v. Wade is overturned, then it turns into 50 state battles - even more opportunities to turn out the base, particularly in purple states.
  #255  
Old 10-03-2018, 05:47 PM
nelliebly nelliebly is online now
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A month ago, I would have said fear, not anger, was my consuming emotion, but I'm angry about what happened to all of you who've shared your stories, and that forced me past my own anxiety to the rage I didn't know I had. It's not comfortable, but it's good, a sort of cleansing fire.

And I'm still simmering about Trump's comments yesterday about every young man being afraid. It's not only that women aren't believed and assailants are reaping sympathy while victims get castigated; it's the idea that women, all women, are inherently duplicitous, immoral, and irrational, and disloyal. Be afraid, fellas, he's really saying. You can't trust these woman. It's like a bad 1950s B movie.

I think maybe what they really fear is our anger.
  #256  
Old 10-03-2018, 06:39 PM
Modesty Blaise Modesty Blaise is offline
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Originally Posted by nelliebly View Post
A month ago, I would have said fear, not anger, was my consuming emotion, but I'm angry about what happened to all of you who've shared your stories, and that forced me past my own anxiety to the rage I didn't know I had. It's not comfortable, but it's good, a sort of cleansing fire.

And I'm still simmering about Trump's comments yesterday about every young man being afraid. It's not only that women aren't believed and assailants are reaping sympathy while victims get castigated; it's the idea that women, all women, are inherently duplicitous, immoral, and irrational, and disloyal. Be afraid, fellas, he's really saying. You can't trust these woman. It's like a bad 1950s B movie.

I think maybe what they really fear is our anger.

I think there are many, many women out there suddenly discovering RAGE they didn’t know they had. Good.

The crowd at his stooopid rally LAUGHED and chanted “lock her up” after he mocked her. How can women NOT be enraged at that?

Hideous cowards. Yes, I think they are afraid of our anger.
  #257  
Old 10-03-2018, 10:40 PM
Stranger On A Train Stranger On A Train is online now
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I think maybe what they really fear is our anger.
Anger is wholly appropriate at this point, and more pertinently, it seems to be the expresion that is most widely recognized. Which says a lot about the need to have more proportional representation in governance, not out of some hypothetical rainbow and flowers idiology, but that people who feel recognized and included instead of being marginalized and ignored are less interested in burning down the system, which has never resulted in stability. Being exclusionist has never resulted in lomg term stability or economic growth.

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  #258  
Old 10-03-2018, 11:08 PM
Not Carlson Not Carlson is offline
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Originally Posted by Modesty Blaise View Post
The crowd at his stooopid rally LAUGHED and chanted “lock her up” after he mocked her. How can women NOT be enraged at that?
Whait, wat!?
This was a recent rally?
And they were shouting "lock her up" about ... C.B.Ford?
  #259  
Old 10-04-2018, 12:18 AM
Modesty Blaise Modesty Blaise is offline
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Yes, they really did that.

https://www.salon.com/2018/10/03/loc...e-blasey-ford/
  #260  
Old 10-04-2018, 01:26 AM
Nava Nava is offline
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I think maybe what they really fear is our anger.
Our anger, our smarts, our strength in general.

"Mediocrity" is one of those words which doesn't quite mean what its roots say. When we call someone mediocre, we're saying the mean, median and mode are so high above their heads, they can use them for a ceiling. There's a clear correlation between someone being mediocre or below, and the same people being bigots. People who know they aren't the best and who are grown-up enough to recognize it and to ask for help when needed aren't particularly likely to be sexist, racist, whateverist; but those who in their heart of hearts know they wouldn't have gotten where they have with a level playing field and who would never admit it out loud? Those fight as hard as they can to keep it tilted.

Because they are afraid. That correlation is causative. They are afraid that if the people who are having to walk uphill ever get a level track, those people will leave their asses in the dust. We will leave their asses in the dust.
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  #261  
Old 10-04-2018, 08:03 AM
Not Carlson Not Carlson is offline
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Good grief. (_ _)
  #262  
Old 10-04-2018, 12:31 PM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is offline
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Originally Posted by Nava View Post
It was something completely different, but I love drawing. When I was 5 I stopped drawing until I had it as a subject in 5th grade: being in K2, I drew something the teacher found strange enough to grab the picture in one hand, me in the other, take me to see the Mother Director, and the Mother called my mother, and the two Mother Goddesses proceeded to bark at each other at levels that had me about shitting myself (I mean, I'm sure no actual yelling was involved, but the levels of acid in the room were starting to attack Mom's wedding ring) and nobody explained to me that I had done nothing wrong. (The drawing was just "ahead of my age" FFS).




One of the hardest things when you're training someone is understanding what do they get and what not. Something can be obvious to the teacher and completely incomprehensible to the student; some times, there is also a language barrier, as the student has a pretty clear idea about which part they don't get, what they don't know is how to explain it; other times, the student has understood what was explained, but it was explained badly. Also, only because someone can repeat something exactly that doesn't mean they've comprehended it. This goes to infinity with kids, and being a parent is all about teaching.
I've seen a thing on Facebook where kindergartners were asked to write down things they collected, and a little girl wrote "penis". The teacher was naturally concerned, and asked her to say the word. She replied, "Pennies!" (Whew.)
  #263  
Old 10-05-2018, 11:15 PM
nelliebly nelliebly is online now
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It's been a rough couple weeks for those who've been sexually assaulted. With the confirmation a done deal and social media chock full of rape apologists and mamas who are far more concerned their sons will be falsely accused of rape than they are about the women who ARE raped, I just wanted to thank everyone again for sharing. I think it's about to get a lot harder to report, so there's no time we've needed each other more.
  #264  
Old 10-06-2018, 09:31 AM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
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Illustration of rape culture — South Carolina Repiblican Andre Bauer says on CNN that were his daughter in Ford's position, he would ask her to "rethink facts."

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/10/kav...idnt-back/amp/
  #265  
Old 10-06-2018, 11:03 AM
Dangerosa Dangerosa is offline
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I'm coming back late - I was traveling last week, but as I read Facebook posts and catch up, there is another reason why we don't report.

We don't tell you because you can't do anything about it and we don't know how you will handle it. I'm speaking to you, female friend, male friend, spouse, partner, child, or parent. We know nothing will likely happen to achieve justice or change the reality we live in every goddamn day, but there will be a public awareness of what we said happened to us, and we don't want to watch you, who love us, go through the pain or the anger or the trigger of whatever is in your own past. We are shielding you from something you can't do anything about and the emotional burden of knowing the emotional burden we carry.

I live in terror of my mother and father discovering the extent of the abuse I went through, because it would hurt them so much.
  #266  
Old 10-06-2018, 04:32 PM
Rushgeekgirl Rushgeekgirl is offline
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As we can see now it's pointless to even speak up. I just don't know what to think anymore. I'm sick.
  #267  
Old 10-06-2018, 05:03 PM
Stranger On A Train Stranger On A Train is online now
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Originally Posted by Rushgeekgirl View Post
As we can see now it's pointless to even speak up. I just don't know what to think anymore. I'm sick.
There are plenty of people who believed Christine Blasey Ford, or at least saw her testimony as sufficiently credibly to doubt that Kavanagh should be confirmed; just not 51 people in the Senate (and franky I think some of them knew that Kavanaugh was not credible but acceded out of short term political expediency). I also think this is going to have political implications that go past the midterm elections, especially if Kavanaugh’s behavior indicates how he will make jugmenents on the Supreme Court. Remember, he demonstrably lied under oath; a Democratic majority in the Senate could remove Kavanaugh, lifetime appointment or not, and there is a lot of rightous anger about how transparently corrupt this process has been.

Anyway, Susan Collins is probably done for (she was already on unstable ground in Maine) and in general this was a shit move for Republicans who, again, could have picked a less contentious but equally conservative candidate but kow-towed to Trump’s need to win at all costs and stand behind “his guys” even when they are obviously unsuited. This was not strategic thinking on the part of anyone except maybe Kamala Harris who laid a pretty standard prosecutor’s trap for force a defendant into perjury. Even without that, there is arguably enough justification for a Democratic majority to remove Kavanaugh.

Let the GOP build their Death Star. I’m sure that will work out for them. It always does.

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Last edited by Stranger On A Train; 10-06-2018 at 05:05 PM.
  #268  
Old 10-06-2018, 05:14 PM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is offline
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MHO: ANYONE who supported BK can kiss their political career goodbye, 'cos the voters won't forget this.

On a somewhat lighter note, I saw a tweet yesterday from a man named Brett Kavanaugh who said it's awfully hard to have that name right now.
  #269  
Old 10-06-2018, 05:21 PM
Stranger On A Train Stranger On A Train is online now
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No one should have to bear the lifelong burden of carrying the name “Brett”.

Stranger
  #270  
Old 10-06-2018, 09:42 PM
nelliebly nelliebly is online now
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Dangerosa, you nailed it, but that is too heavy a burden to carry alone for so long. I understand the reluctance to grieve your parents, as I held off on telling mine at first for the same reason. Fear for my life finally drove me to tell them, and then I insisted they not tell my siblings or ever talk about the assault ever again. I appreciate their willingness to give me control of my story, but I made the wrong decision. I only told my siblings 2 years ago, so I missed all the support I would have gotten from them. The damage from a rape extends well beyond the victim. You've tried to shield your family from that pain, and I admire your compassion and resolve, but you've also shielded them from the possibility of helping you heal.

I don't know your family, so forgive me, please, if I've mischaracterized them.
  #271  
Old 10-06-2018, 09:49 PM
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TheMysteryWriter TheMysteryWriter is online now
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I always believed Christine Blasey Ford. I believe everyone who shares their experiences. And I'm so sorry for all of the awful things you've have to live with. I started a nice little writing forum and this trial came up and a few conservative posters came on spouting their shit and now I barely want to visit my own forum anymore. I also hate how the election has transformed previously nice people into very not-nice-people at all.

Women who don't believe other women's stories is the most hurtful thing. Especially when they've been abused themselves.

I don't think I've ever had anything happen to me. I was a super oblivious, special needs kid, who didn't get out much. I didn't even know I was growing buds. I never looked at myself, I guess. I just looked down one day when I was taking a bath and I had breasts. It was shocking!

The closest experience I've ever had was when I was around 5. The boy was around 5, too, and we were playing Simon Says. He wanted me to pull down my pants so he could touch my weener. He was so little he didn't know that girls didn't have them, and I don't think I knew what a weener was. I remember not wanting to do it, and feeling scared that I'd get into trouble, but then he pulled his pants down first and asked me to touch his. I didn't really want to, but I was the sort of kid who usually did what I was told, so I did. And then I got convinced to pull down my pants. I remember him being shocked I didn't have a weener. Then my mom walked in, and even though it really wasn't a big deal, I felt such shame and fear at being discovered that I still remember it to this day. I didn't get hit even though I was pretty scared I would, so that was good.

So even though I've never been assaulted or anything if I could be that emotionally traumatized due to religious indoctrination that you wouldn't think I would have even known about at such a young age, actual victims must experience something so much worse.

And from the stories I've heard from peeps I know and that I've read about I know it does hurt them so much, and I wish that we could empathy bomb all of these men who don't understand what it's like. Of course if women who do know what it's like can discount other women's stories because they once knew a man who was falsely accused then maybe not even empathy brainwashing would work.

I knew Kavanaugh would get confirmed, too, no matter what any women did or said. I don't think anything will change until the generation who grew up with sexual assault being socially acceptable are all dead, and possibly their kids, too. When today's tweens and teens are finally in power, things might get better, but I don't feel at all confident that they will before then.
  #272  
Old 10-07-2018, 07:13 AM
Dangerosa Dangerosa is offline
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Dangerosa, you nailed it, but that is too heavy a burden to carry alone for so long. I understand the reluctance to grieve your parents, as I held off on telling mine at first for the same reason. Fear for my life finally drove me to tell them, and then I insisted they not tell my siblings or ever talk about the assault ever again. I appreciate their willingness to give me control of my story, but I made the wrong decision. I only told my siblings 2 years ago, so I missed all the support I would have gotten from them. The damage from a rape extends well beyond the victim. You've tried to shield your family from that pain, and I admire your compassion and resolve, but you've also shielded them from the possibility of helping you heal.

I don't know your family, so forgive me, please, if I've mischaracterized them.
Thanks Nellie, but I don't need my parent to help me heal. I've healed as much as I want to heal - what is left is still the anger. And I don't need to share my burden with them, I've discovered that for me (and with thirty years of therapy behind me, I know what works for me) sharing a burden doesn't lighten it for me, I add to theirs and then share theirs as well without lightening my own load. So its heavier if I share.
  #273  
Old 10-07-2018, 11:35 AM
Nava Nava is offline
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Illustration of rape culture — South Carolina Repiblican Andre Bauer says on CNN that were his daughter in Ford's position, he would ask her to "rethink facts."

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/10/kav...idnt-back/amp/
Were I Bauer's daughter, he could kiss the notions of ever meeting the grandkids goodbye.
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  #274  
Old 10-07-2018, 12:20 PM
Dangerosa Dangerosa is offline
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Were I Bauer's daughter, he could kiss the notions of ever meeting the grandkids goodbye.
No kidding
  #275  
Old 10-07-2018, 01:19 PM
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Bauer raped his daughter rather than some frat boy?
  #276  
Old 10-07-2018, 03:59 PM
nelliebly nelliebly is online now
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Thanks Nellie, but I don't need my parent to help me heal. I've healed as much as I want to heal - what is left is still the anger. And I don't need to share my burden with them, I've discovered that for me (and with thirty years of therapy behind me, I know what works for me) sharing a burden doesn't lighten it for me, I add to theirs and then share theirs as well without lightening my own load. So its heavier if I share.
Good to know and something of a relief. Thanks.
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