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Old 07-20-2018, 04:56 PM
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James Gunn fired from Guardians of the Galaxy 3

AP story here:
Quote:
James Gunn was fired Friday as director of “Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3” because of old tweets that recently emerged where he joked about subjects like pedophilia and rape.

Walt Disney Studios Chairman Alan Horn announced the removal.

“The offensive attitudes and statements discovered on James’ Twitter feed are indefensible and inconsistent with our studio’s values, and we have severed our business relationship with him,” Horn said in a statement.

Gunn has been writer and director of the “Guardians of the Galaxy” franchise from the start, taking an obscure Marvel Comics title about a group of multicolored misfits and turning it into a space opera decked with comedy and retro music that made Chris Pratt a major movie star. Through two installments the franchise has brought in more than $1.5 billion in global box office.

Gunn apologized for the old tweets Friday after his firing, echoing similar sentiments he expressed on Twitter a day earlier.
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Old 07-20-2018, 05:34 PM
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Sucks for the movie, but maybe they can get Taika Watiti to direct it. I don't have much sympathy for Gunn. "I did it when I was younger, I've grown past that." It was fucking 7 years ago dude. You were in your 40s.
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Old 07-20-2018, 05:35 PM
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A Right Wing Blogger dug into his feed to find them and create a dust up. Obviously "payback" for Roseanne being fired for nutty racist tweets she did today and not 6 years ago.
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Old 07-20-2018, 05:45 PM
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They were shitty and offensive jokes, but that's all they were. I hope Disney reconsiders. James Gunn's discarded fingernail clippings have more talent than Roseanne. And he's generally, shitty jokes to one side, a pretty decent guy. Has anyone other than a couple of notorious right wing trolls and their followers actually complained?

I guess this is reason 4,783,091 to never ever open a twitter account.
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Old 07-20-2018, 05:45 PM
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Payback or not, it was some seriously nasty shit, and it was hardly an isolated incident. He seems to like to "joke" about pedophilia a lot.

http://archive.is/MdOm6
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Old 07-20-2018, 06:00 PM
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There was very little joke and a whole lot of horrifically nasty about the comments I read.
I'm a whole lot of shocked and unhappy about this. I liked the Guardians films more than any of the other MCU films, and have been looking forward to the 3rd. Yeah, here's hoping that Taika Watiti takes over.

And yes, in the days when internet comments live forever, there is no forgiveness for past mistakes, misspeakings, drunken ramblings, or attempts to be shocking for the sake of being shocking.
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Old 07-20-2018, 07:18 PM
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A Right Wing Blogger dug into his feed to find them and create a dust up. Obviously "payback" for Roseanne being fired for nutty racist tweets she did today and not 6 years ago.
Wait, what?

Again?

Is there a link? Because that strikes me as a FAR more entertaining story. F’rinstance, I didn’t know she had gotten herself another job.
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Old 07-20-2018, 07:22 PM
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Rosanne today.

The interesting things about Gunn is that the tweets were dug up and spread by the same asshole who perpetrated Gamergate.
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Old 07-20-2018, 07:26 PM
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Rosanne today.

The interesting things about Gunn is that the tweets were dug up and spread by the same asshole who perpetrated Gamergate.
Yeah, that's the infuriating thing. If this had been brought to light by an in house investigation or some random person, I'd be much more sanguine, though still sad. But Disney looks pathetic dancing to Mike Cernovich's tune.
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Old 07-20-2018, 08:53 PM
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Cernovich didn't author the tweets, he just brought them to light. It's something that happens to many celebs, regardless of politics. It's a hatchet job, for sure, but it is nothing new. Big difference is that Gunn immediately took the high road, as opposed to Barr still making excuses. And maybe, just maybe, if enough people get shit-slapped for posting and saying and doing stupid shit in the age of pervasive recording and the internet never forgetting, people will eventually learn to stop doing stupid shit. And on that day, we will also discover that unicorns really exist.
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Old 07-20-2018, 09:35 PM
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Man, this sucks on multiple levels. I was never sure if I liked James Gunn all that much, but this is a mess that may ruin his big budget career forever. He'll have to go back to indie horror permanently.

In most cases like this I would see it as overreaction, but though I haven't read the tweets in question, I accept others' assessment that they really were more than problematic. Fair enough, then.
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Old 07-20-2018, 09:43 PM
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So, am I now going to get in trouble for the dead baby jokes I told as a child? Sometimes jokes are funny precisely because they are over-the-top offensive.
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:18 PM
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Dumbest, most bullshit snap judgment in awhile. Gunn's film immediately preceding Guardians, and which probably secured him his deal with Marvel to begin with, was Super, which notably has a scene played for comedy wherein a young Ellen Page rapes a middle-aged superhero wannabe played by Rainn Wilson. Who is so distraught afterward that he vomits.

Which isn't even to mention PG Porn or Gunn's early work with Troma. So the notion that he suddenly got fired for his tweets is bullshit.
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:20 PM
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So, am I now going to get in trouble for the dead baby jokes I told as a child? Sometimes jokes are funny precisely because they are over-the-top offensive.
That depends. Did you go on a social media site and tell them? If you did, you're pretty much screwed and the fact you were a minor at the time won't excuse you. Just ask Josh Hader.

I hate to repeat a cliche' but on the internet, everything's written in ink. That's something has to be drilled into the head of every child before he or she goes on-line for the first time.
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:36 PM
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If there had been social media 40 years ago, who knows? But there's a huge difference between hate-filled rants and jokes that are so over-the-top they are obviously meant to be shock humor. Lenny Bruce fought this battle 60 years ago. I call BS on someone being offended by specifically searching out jokes long buried, anyway. It's like hanging out in an outhouse and complaining about the stench.
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Old 07-21-2018, 02:04 AM
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If those were meant to be jokes they were some of the least funny I've ever come across.
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Old 07-21-2018, 02:43 AM
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If those were meant to be jokes they were some of the least funny I've ever come across.
I read them. It seemed like he was ripping off Daniel Tosh.
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Old 07-21-2018, 02:54 AM
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Yeah, they read like a teenager wanting to make edgy comedy. Stuff like:

>"Eagle snatches kid" is what I call it when I get lucky.

Har har. Get it? Yeah.

Hardly the most offensive thing in the world. Probably too rich for the house of the Mouse, but nothing to get too scandalized over.
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:34 AM
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Yeah, they read like a teenager wanting to make edgy comedy. Stuff like:

>"Eagle snatches kid" is what I call it when I get lucky.

Har har. Get it?

Not entirely, I must admit.
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Old 07-21-2018, 11:39 AM
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Yeah, they read like a teenager wanting to make edgy comedy. Stuff like:

>"Eagle snatches kid" is what I call it when I get lucky.

Har har. Get it? Yeah.

Hardly the most offensive thing in the world. Probably too rich for the house of the Mouse, but nothing to get too scandalized over.
I agree. A lot of these jokes are really lame, but overall this really isn't pinging my outrage meter. Doesn't Seth MacFarlane make tasteless rape and pedophilia jokes all the time, and get paid handsomely for it?
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Old 07-21-2018, 12:03 PM
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Not entirely, I must admit.
"Eagle snatches kid" sounds like some sort of sensationalist National Enquirer- type headline, and he makes the edgy, gross out joke that he gets "lucky" by snatching kids.

It's silly, the twitter posts I'm reading are all about silly "politically incorrect" blue humor, about 9/11 or cancer or whatnot.

Again, Disney has the right to fire anybody for whatever perceived break of conduct they deem true. But calling the guy a pedophile is just nonsense.
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Old 07-21-2018, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Go_Arachnid_Laser View Post
"Eagle snatches kid" sounds like some sort of sensationalist National Enquirer- type headline, and he makes the edgy, gross out joke that he gets "lucky" by snatching kids.
I think you're mistaken about the bolded part. I don't get that at all from the line. Like, at all.

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Old 07-21-2018, 12:39 PM
caligulathegod caligulathegod is offline
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There's always a context. If I'm reading this right, the pedophilia jokes might have been him mocking Victor Salva. He was asked why he was taking part in a reading with a convicted pedophile, he answered: “Yeah, that was the point of the tweets, dummy. I left. I showed up to the reading and there was a convicted pedophile there – Victor Salva, the director of Jeepers Creepers, and I was fucking horrified.”
Also, a lot of the tweets had hashtags from @Midnight and Twitter joke competitions they did. They were supposed to be shocking. Are they funny? I don't know, but reading them so far out of context is like when police officers were reading Lenny Bruce's routines in court.
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Old 07-21-2018, 12:39 PM
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The snippets I read were pretty awful. I liked Gunn, but it's not surprising that he's fired when he said stuff that disgusting, even in a joking matter. Maybe if he had been in his 20s this could have blown over. But it wasn't that long ago, and he was in his 40s, so it's not surprising at all.
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Old 07-21-2018, 02:34 PM
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Frankly I think the whole story that he thought it was funny that monkey ejaculated on kid on set of Max Keeble's Big Move kinda soured me on "these tweets are all joke" defense. That's pretty disturbing thing to find funny and it calls in to question whether or not Disney should put him in charge of another film.

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Old 07-21-2018, 02:58 PM
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The fact that some left-wing groups dredged up these exact same tweets a few years ago ahead of the release of his other Disney movies to no real effect make me wonder if this wasn't just a calculated move by Disney to fire him using this as an excuse.
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Old 07-21-2018, 03:03 PM
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How bad of a slur is "tranny" considered and how long has it been that way? I'm asking because some of the biggest outrage I've read is over his use of "a slur for transgenders." And, well, i'm not saying it's not rude or offensive but I would say it's pretty commonly used (at least until very recently) and I see it regularly used by like adult industry folks and other people who are "into" or involved in stuff with transgender people.
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Old 07-21-2018, 03:11 PM
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The fact that some left-wing groups dredged up these exact same tweets a few years ago ahead of the release of his other Disney movies to no real effect make me wonder if this wasn't just a calculated move by Disney to fire him using this as an excuse.
That's rather interesting. Do you have a link?
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Old 07-21-2018, 03:50 PM
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The fact that some left-wing groups dredged up these exact same tweets a few years ago ahead of the release of his other Disney movies to no real effect make me wonder if this wasn't just a calculated move by Disney to fire him using this as an excuse.
Don't see why. Disney has fired directors mercilessly and without any proper explanation before, some with a relevant fanbase. Names that include Edgar Wright (from Ant-Man) and the team composed of Phil Lord and Christopher Miller (From Solo).

They just took the backlash and moved on.
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Old 07-21-2018, 04:50 PM
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That's rather interesting. Do you have a link?
Here's a news article where GLAAD and other groups complained before the release of the first Guardians of the Galaxy about similar style blog statements he made before.

Here's a Mary Sue article referencing those same events and saying that multiple people and groups at the time were asking for James Gunn to step-down from Guardians of the Galaxy 1.
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Old 07-21-2018, 05:16 PM
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Cernovich didn't author the tweets, he just brought them to light. It's something that happens to many celebs, regardless of politics. It's a hatchet job, for sure, but it is nothing new. Big difference is that Gunn immediately took the high road, as opposed to Barr still making excuses. And maybe, just maybe, if enough people get shit-slapped for posting and saying and doing stupid shit in the age of pervasive recording and the internet never forgetting, people will eventually learn to stop doing stupid shit. And on that day, we will also discover that unicorns really exist.
My problem with it is it was a bad faith complaint. The tweets didn't bother Mike Cernovich in the slightest. He weaponized outrage to hurt someone because he didn't like that he was liberal. The people who were angry that Roseanne was a racist conspiracy theorist were at least sincere.

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Old 07-21-2018, 06:10 PM
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You know, Chris Pratt exposed himself to Amy Poehler on the set of Parks & Rec, Robert Downey Jr is a drug addict with an extensive felony record, and Stan Lee has had a long history of verbal sexual abuse claims against him. Compared to this, a comedic personality making deliberately outrageous comments on a social media platform is piddling offense by any rational standard.

Mike Cernovich is a professional shit-stirrer and conspiranoist on par with Alex Jones who manufactures outrage by innuendo, out-of-context citation, and outright lying, a fact he doesn’t really deny. Vice: “How Truth Lost It’s Meaning In Trump’s America”. He’s currently attempting to push a theory that there is a massive paedophilia ring that is pervasive in entertaiment circles, and Gunn was just the first target he successfully hit.

I give even odds this blows backwards and the apparently snap decision by Marvel Studios and/or corporate parent Disney is reversed. Or if not, I’m sure Fox would be happy to give Gunn free reign develop one of their Deadpool-associated properties as he sees fit, because that studio certainly isn’t afraid of some hard language and uncomfortable sexual humor.

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  #33  
Old 07-21-2018, 06:23 PM
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I wasn't aware of the on-going campaign; I'll have to keep an eye out for evidence of that going forward. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
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I give even odds this blows backwards and the apparently snap decision by Marvel Studios and/or corporate parent Disney is reversed. Or if not, I’m sure Fox would be happy to give Gunn free reign develop one of their Deadpool-associated properties as he sees fit, because that studio certainly isn’t afraid of some hard language and uncomfortable sexual humor.
I have to wonder if there aren't a few people at Fox that haven't already been discussing something like that.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:02 PM
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I wasn't aware of the on-going campaign; I'll have to keep an eye out for evidence of that going forward. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
And attacking the news media. But he’s got his own history as an accused rapist and avowed rape apologist.

As for Gunn, he made some crass, ostensibly humorous statements on what was then still a pretty casual social media site well before Twitter became an essential global phenomenon that people referenced for news and information. He has contritely apologized for the content and tone, and as yet no one has come forward to accused him of having made any kind of offense or insult to an individual, much less actually having committed any of the lewd acts he joked about. If he’d been smarter, and aware that his career would blow up into helming a trilogy of films inside of a major franchise run by a media-sensitive corporate behemoth he’d have been smarter to not make those posts, or better yet not have a private, unvented social media account at all, but in terms of life mistakes this is on the far side of inconsequential except for people looking to manufacture outrage.

Every working comedian or entertainer working in comedy knows about a joke colloquially referred to as “The Aristocrats”, which each comedian attempts to tell in such a way to be intentionally more offensive than anyone before, often involving descriptions of acts that even Thomas Pynchon refuses to write about. This joke has existed since the dawn of entertainment as an industry, and has probably been told by every comedian from Milton Berle to Tina Fey. That they’ve all told this joke does not mean that they endorse or promote the acts described within; just that there is a competition among comedians to make the most horrific things funny. Gunn is not a professional comedian (although he has reportedly done some standup) and his humor in this regard is sophomoric at best, but none of it is an offense, insult, or attack directed at a living person, and has not resulted in anyone entering a pizzeria with a rifle to ‘investigate’ fake conspiracy theories, so by any objective measure he’s still a better person than his accusers or for that matter the President.

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Old 07-21-2018, 07:12 PM
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Disney has every right to fire Gunn. Gunn creates their entertainment product and Disney depends upon him, in part, to present their face positively to the public.

So I fully support Disney's decision.

Exactly the way I supported ABC's decision.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Bricker View Post
Disney has every right to fire Gunn. Gunn creates their entertainment product and Disney depends upon him, in part, to present their face positively to the public.

So I fully support Disney's decision.

Exactly the way I supported ABC's decision.
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:20 PM
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Don't see why. Disney has fired directors mercilessly and without any proper explanation before, some with a relevant fanbase. Names that include Edgar Wright (from Ant-Man) and the team composed of Phil Lord and Christopher Miller (From Solo).

They just took the backlash and moved on.
I see it as a savvy business move for Disney, Gunn's weird past has always been a liability and lately Disney has been coming under fire for the sheer lack of female directors in their Marvel movies. So the obvious choice is to make a big public announcement of canning Gunn, then make an equally big announcement later that hes being replaced by a female director.
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:38 PM
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I see it as a savvy business move for Disney, Gunn's weird past has always been a liability and lately Disney has been coming under fire for the sheer lack of female directors in their Marvel movies. So the obvious choice is to make a big public announcement of canning Gunn, then make an equally big announcement later that hes being replaced by a female director.
A "grossing over $1.5B with two movies" liability working on the 3rd in the series. I think we'll have to wait and see if it was a savvy business move or not.
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:42 PM
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I wasn't aware of the on-going campaign; I'll have to keep an eye out for evidence of that going forward. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
I have to wonder if there aren't a few people at Fox that haven't already been discussing something like that.
Doubtful. Disney is buying Fox. Hiring Gunn for Deadpool would be awkward and dumb. Good way to get fired though.
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Old 07-22-2018, 02:14 PM
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Doubtful. Disney is buying Fox. Hiring Gunn for Deadpool would be awkward and dumb. Good way to get fired though.
Good point about Disney buying Fox; that had slipped my mind.
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Old 07-22-2018, 02:29 PM
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Maybe Waner Bros will hire him to make The Flash.
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Old 07-22-2018, 03:03 PM
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Supposedly said by Cardinal Richelieu. While there is some dispute as to whether he actually said it, it does indeed represent his SOP.
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If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged....
Basically you’ll find dirt on anyone....
  #43  
Old 07-22-2018, 05:04 PM
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If there had been social media 40 years ago, who knows? But there's a huge difference between hate-filled rants and jokes that are so over-the-top they are obviously meant to be shock humor. Lenny Bruce fought this battle 60 years ago. I call BS on someone being offended by specifically searching out jokes long buried, anyway. It's like hanging out in an outhouse and complaining about the stench.
The whole lesson I think is the difficulty in finding and having it broadly agreed what is the big difference between the same words in different contexts. The internet is a big context removing machine.

And that's assuming people arguing the context are on the 'same side' politically. If not, forget it. John Schnatter is generally on the 'wrong side' for most people here whereas Gunn presumably as a major Hollywood type is on the 'right side'. Still, Schnatter was kicked to the curb by his board of directors (at Papa John's Pizza) pretty much ignoring the context of his use of the n-word, though it wasn't comedy per se. Or maybe they thought the guy had become a net negative for various PR (his position against the NFL kneelers, basically) and perhaps non-PR business reasons already and this was a good excuse to get rid of him. Some have suggested the same with Disney v. Gunn (I had not really have heard of Gunn before this, haven't seen any of his movies AFAIK so I've no idea if this is plausible actually).

People who constantly joke as if they are violators of societal taboos often are. Maybe this is a coming new stage of the socio-sexual revolution: to ask whether it's fair to shun people with pedophilic inclinations *as long as they never act on them*. But if one was a betting person the odds somebody making that many jokes about pedophilia having such inclinations are IMO way higher than random. And naturally the general public (Disney's public) isn't going to react well to that inkling.

All that said I'm disturbed by the lack of any apparent limiting principal to going though people's past statements then have social media mobs destroy their livelihoods. No apparent principal besides 'he's a scumbag anyway' (often meaning, 'he's on the opposite side of the political divide') or 'he's a good guy besides this' ('he's on my side of the political divide').

But it does prove IMO what a dumb idea real name social media is, or anyway ever saying what you really feel on it (unless you're a *very* straight laced person) rather than reserving your honest opinions or bad jokes for anonymous venues.
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:56 PM
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I am just going to re-iterate my earlier post. One story going around is about him joking about an incident where monkey ejaculated on a kid on set of Max Keeble's Big Move . If it's true, than that is him joking about what amounts to basically a sexual assault on an actual child, not some just hypothetical joke about pedophilia. To me, that alone is sufficient grounds for Disney to fire him as a director. It's telling that the people who are defending James Gunn aren't bringing this up because, realistically, what exactly could they say to defend him.

Last edited by dorvann; 07-22-2018 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:15 PM
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I am just going to re-iterate my earlier post. One story going around is about him joking about an incident where monkey ejaculated on a kid on set of Max Keeble's Big Move . If it's true, than that is him joking about what amounts to basically a sexual assault on an actual child, not some just hypothetical joke about pedophilia. To me, that alone is sufficient grounds for Disney to fire him as a director. It's telling that the people who are defending James Gunn aren't bringing this up because, realistically, what exactly could they say to defend him.
An animal can commit sexual assault on a human?

I've met a couple leg-humping dogs that have a lot to answer for...
  #46  
Old 07-22-2018, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dorvann View Post
I am just going to re-iterate my earlier post. One story going around is about him joking about an incident where monkey ejaculated on a kid on set of Max Keeble's Big Move . If it's true, than that is him joking about what amounts to basically a sexual assault on an actual child, not some just hypothetical joke about pedophilia. To me, that alone is sufficient grounds for Disney to fire him as a director. It's telling that the people who are defending James Gunn aren't bringing this up because, realistically, what exactly could they say to defend him.
Is it defending him to point out that you yourself don't even know if this is true? That you don't know if he said it at all? That you don't know if the event occurred?

What does that tell you, that I asked those questions?

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 07-22-2018 at 11:28 PM.
  #47  
Old 07-22-2018, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by krondys View Post
An animal can commit sexual assault on a human?

I've met a couple leg-humping dogs that have a lot to answer for...
Your leg was asking for it. In fact, I would posit the dog is the victim here.
  #48  
Old 07-22-2018, 11:37 PM
Dale Sams Dale Sams is offline
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Mel Brooks made rape jokes. Graham Chapman made rape jokes. ZAZ made child sexual abuse jokes. ANYONE who makes a To Catch a Predator joke is "trivializing pedophilia" etc...etc...
  #49  
Old 07-22-2018, 11:51 PM
dorvann dorvann is offline
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Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
Is it defending him to point out that you yourself don't even know if this is true? That you don't know if he said it at all? That you don't know if the event occurred?

What does that tell you, that I asked those questions?


You actually do have a point here. This actually raises the question about how fast Disney and other companies responded to this incident and the Roseanne Barr firing. In both cases, they basically fired both of them within 48 hours of both stories being made public. Disney probably should waited to verify whether allegations were true. There really should be a "cooling off" period before a company fires an individual in such as a situation so companies can investigate whether the person accused actually made the statements. I distinctly get the feeling that someone is going to end up getting fired for the statements they didn't actually make.

Social media has basically made the old saying "A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on" a harsh reality.

If I am wrong about this whole incident, I apologize. It's being reported all over the internet. But to me, it's probably one of the first things the press and Disney should look in to. If they are true, I still say it's a good justification for Disney to fire him.
  #50  
Old 07-23-2018, 04:38 AM
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Wonder what this means for Rocket and Kraglin in the next movie, given Sean Gunn does mocap for the former and plays the latter. Obviously they can get someone else to do the mocap and Kraglin might not even be in the movie, and that's only if Sean leaves out of solidarity, so might not mean anything.


I think this is dumb - if someone does change for the better, as Gunn has been quite open about doing, we do want to encourage that behaviour. Especially since this is not news to Disney and they didn't care last time it was raised. I think they're just completely misreading the crowd with this one, too. I see there's also messages of support from Dave Bautista and Selma Blair, as well as a petition to rehire him. Like that'll work.

Last edited by MrDibble; 07-23-2018 at 04:38 AM.
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