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  #251  
Old 01-02-2019, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
Sounds like the Dodgers. Trade one bad teammate, big bat for another 'big bat' (Harper's bat hasn't been that big lately), bad teammate that's more expensive. And they wonder why the Series stays out of reach...
They've been to the Series two years in a row.
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  #252  
Old 01-03-2019, 08:19 AM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is online now
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And they've had to be sportsmanlike and congratulatory after both. They need another bat and another arm or three or that's going to be it.
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Old 01-03-2019, 01:32 PM
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But they did, in fact, reach the Series, right? I'm not misremembering that?

Criticizing the management of a team that won two straight pennants is nuts. It's a terrific team and objectively extremely well run. That isn't a matter of debate.
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  #254  
Old 01-03-2019, 01:51 PM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is online now
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I'm sure you admired the 1990's Braves, too.

Only one team gets a parade and a trophy. If the Dodgers want that, they have to get better.

Last edited by ElvisL1ves; 01-03-2019 at 01:52 PM.
  #255  
Old 01-03-2019, 02:22 PM
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Looks like David Robertson went to Philly for $23 million. $10m, $11m and $2m buyout team option for third year at $12m.
  #256  
Old 01-03-2019, 02:56 PM
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I'm sure you admired the 1990's Braves, too.

Only one team gets a parade and a trophy. If the Dodgers want that, they have to get better.
Are you seriously contending that the best team always wins the Series? That's only true as a tautology, by defining the best team to be the one that wins the Series.
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Old 01-03-2019, 02:58 PM
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Looks like David Robertson went to Philly for $23 million. $10m, $11m and $2m buyout team option for third year at $12m.
He's done quite well for himself considering he isn't an elite reliever. He's very good, but if he gets the option year it will bring his career earnings up to $90 million. I wonder if they'll use him as their closer...he wasn't great in that role for Chicago, with his ERA and FIP both north of 3.

Still, he'll be missed. I hope the Yanks snag Ottavino or Britton. There's enough talent in the farm system for the other relief spots.
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Old 01-03-2019, 03:11 PM
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I'm sure you admired the 1990's Braves, too.
Did they reach the World Series?

Did they ever win it?
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  #259  
Old 01-03-2019, 11:58 PM
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They've been to the Series two years in a row.
Yes. And have 0 rings to show for it. People don't talk about the greatness of all those Buffalo Bills teams, they talk about the futility of them reaching the title round and coming up short. Most WS appearances in a row without a win is not exactly an award you put on the front row of the trophy case.

They're a good team. I just don't see how adding Harper (if that is the player they're going for) helps make them a *great* team.
  #260  
Old 01-04-2019, 08:43 AM
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Are you seriously contending that the best team always wins the Series? That's only true as a tautology, by defining the best team to be the one that wins the Series.
If you have another way to define best, one that dismisses the actual results, then let's have it. There's a reason "Second place is first loser" is a cliche - because it's true.

The Dodgers need a deeper pitching staff more than anything else. But who doesn't?
  #261  
Old 01-04-2019, 09:00 AM
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Yes. And have 0 rings to show for it.
Which is unfortunate, but you can't say the Series "stays out of reach" about a team that, you know, reached it. Twice.

The difference between a team that wins the World Series and the team that loses it is not a difference of a well run team versus a badly run team. There is no measurable difference in the quality of the management decisions because there is no decision you can make that will reliably GET you to the World Series but make much of a difference IN the World Series. If you get tothe World Series you've obviously put together a team that was good enough in the regular season to make the playoffs and good enough in the playoffs to win at least two rounds against top opposition, and you can't make any trades in October, so all your real decisions are made and they clearly worked and you're up against some other incredible well designed team and only one of you is allowed to win. Now, there is a measurable difference in the quality of decisions between, say the Dodgers and the Padres, or the Dodgers and the Blue Jays, or the Dodgers and the Orioles. All you can you is put together a really great team and hope things go your way; sports is too unpredictable for anything to be a sure bet.

You claimed the Dodgers lost the World Series because they had a "bad teammate." I mean, that seems like a really unlikely claim to me. I know Manny Machado has a bad reputation but which game, specifically, did his being a bad teammate make them lose, and why didn't that make them lose the NLDS, NLCS, or divisional playoff game? And who was the bad teammate in 2017?

It's odd that people who criticize the management of an objectively excellent team. Try being a Reds fan if you want to know what a badly run team is all about.

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They're a good team. I just don't see how adding Harper (if that is the player they're going for) helps make them a *great* team.
I specifically don't know either, but my opinion about huge contracts to hitters is firm; I wouldn't give a huge contract to ANY position player, ever, except maybe some generational talent like A-Rod or Mike Trout or Willie Mays and even then I'd be nervous about it. Bryce Harper's record does not compare to players of that calibre.
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  #262  
Old 01-04-2019, 09:52 AM
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Which is unfortunate, but you can't say the Series "stays out of reach" about a team that, you know, reached it. Twice.
Pretty sure the intended meaning was "World Series championship".
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there is no decision you can make that will reliably GET you to the World Series but make much of a difference IN the World Series.
Nothing is guaranteed in life, no, but there certainly are things you can do to improve your chances, and those things can be done better than the other guys.

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you can't make any trades in October
There are ways, involving the waiver wire, that do get used then.

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It's odd that people who criticize the management of an objectively excellent team.
It's even odder that people saying "They're very good but not the best, and if they want to win it all they have to get even better" can be accused of criticizing.

Machado's comments about his disinterest in hustling should have made an impression on you. Certainly they did on his teammates. Just a thought.

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I wouldn't give a huge contract to ANY position player, ever, except maybe some generational talent like A-Rod or Mike Trout or Willie Mays and even then I'd be nervous about it. Bryce Harper's record does not compare to players of that calibre.
So you'd have advised the Red Sox not to sign J.D. Martinez, right?

Maybe it's a cultural thing, to think that being very good, and saving some money in the process (!) is good enough, even if somebody else keeps taking the trophies. I'm pretty sure most sports fans, at least here, think winning is even more important. The parades and trophies are pretty damn fun, too - but they don't have any for good losers.
  #263  
Old 01-04-2019, 11:19 AM
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Machado's comments about his disinterest in hustling should have made an impression on you. Certainly they did on his teammates. Just a thought.
I don't know what his teammates thought, nor do you.

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So you'd have advised the Red Sox not to sign J.D. Martinez, right?
That's right. Of course, Martinez worked out. Some huge contracts do; Martinez has worked out so far. I can think of a few other examples. Most, however, are total disasters. You are much likelier to find yourself with an Eric Hosmer or a Chris Davis than a JD Martinez.

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Maybe it's a cultural thing, to think that being very good, and saving some money in the process (!) is good enough, even if somebody else keeps taking the trophies.
Who believes that?
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  #264  
Old 01-04-2019, 11:36 AM
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If you have another way to define best, one that dismisses the actual results, then let's have it. There's a reason "Second place is first loser" is a cliche - because it's true.

The Dodgers need a deeper pitching staff more than anything else. But who doesn't?
How can anyone argue with such a sophisticated analysis?
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Old 01-04-2019, 12:13 PM
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The Tampa Bay Rays will be filling up a much higher percentage of their seats in 2019.

Not by attracting more fans, though - they're closing off the upper deck to seating.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2...capacity-25000

If they keep attendance at the 2018 level, their ballpark will be more than half full for most games!
  #266  
Old 01-04-2019, 01:04 PM
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How can anyone argue with such a sophisticated analysis?
Go ahead. You're among friends.
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Old 01-04-2019, 01:07 PM
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I don't know what his teammates thought, nor do you.
But you do acknowledge the effect had to be negative, don't you?

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That's right.
Fortunately, my team's front office does not have a loser's mentality. That used to be true but it's long in the past.
  #268  
Old 01-04-2019, 03:00 PM
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But you do acknowledge the effect had to be negative, don't you?
I've never met the guy and have no idea. It might have been, but only a very, very stupid person would claim to know unless they had firsthand knowledge.
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  #269  
Old 01-06-2019, 09:41 AM
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Yankees bring back Zach Britton for 3 years, $39 million with options.
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  #270  
Old 01-06-2019, 09:54 AM
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Yankees bring back Zach Britton for 3 years, $39 million with options.
I'm a little surprised, I wonder if this is the last major move or if there are no budget considerations this year?

As a baseball move it is good, really helps the bullpen stay great. This puts the Yanks just over the Competitive Balance Tax.

They can trade Gray still to get under or of course trade Ellsbury eating nearly all of his contract but a few million for the next 2 years. Or they can ignore the Balance and pay the luxury tax this year.

If they sign Machado they jump right up to the next penalty level.
  #271  
Old 01-06-2019, 12:45 PM
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That also pretty well defines Kimbrel's contract with the Red Sox, when he eventually capitulates and signs it.
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Old 01-06-2019, 02:41 PM
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Britton isn't the superpitcher he used to be, but the Yankees can afford it. Craig Kimbrel is a way better pitcher - I wonder if this might bump up his expected return, but of course even if an infferior pitcher is getting $13 million a year, that doesn't mean there are even enough teams capable of affording it that he could find a better deal. "Market value" is kind of meaningless at the top end because there may not be a "market."

Speaking of Craig Kimbrel, at this point in his career, Kimbrel's remarkably similar to Mariano Rivera - like, pretty much bang on. Now, of course, what distinguishes Mo is that he continued doing to the same thing year after year until he was 68 years old or whatever it was. Still, it's a hell of a comparison.

In looking that up I saw, which I'd completely forgotten, that Kimbrel pitched for the Padres for a season in between Atlanta and Boston. I wonder if all the photos of that have been scrubbed.
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  #273  
Old 01-07-2019, 12:29 PM
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If you have another way to define best....
I would guess most people would acknowledge that both skill and luck can play a roll in determining the winner of a sporting competition.

For the people able to recognize that luck shows up in sports -- that luck is, in fact, present in non-zero quantities -- it makes a certain amount of sense to define "best" as the skill proportion of the outcome, rather than the luck proportion, or the sum of the two together.
  #274  
Old 01-08-2019, 01:09 PM
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Please help settle this discussion I had last night with a few bar buddies. Let’s say that Joe Maddon channels his inner Connie Mack and shows up to manage a game wearing a suit and a tie, is that allowed? I know the NFL requires the coaching staff to always wear licensed apparel but I don’t think MLB has the same rule. However, I do notice that all the managers and coaches wear playoff themed apparel during the playoffs, is this required or just done to help promote playoff apparel sales?
  #275  
Old 01-08-2019, 01:52 PM
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He could do that, sure. There is no specific rule against it; you will sometimes hear people say there's a rule, or that there is a specific rule that managers and coaches must wear uniforms to step onto the field, but that is not true. The base coaches must be in uniform but no league rule says managers must be in uniform.

They wear uniforms purely out of tradition and the prevailing culture of the sport.
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  #276  
Old 01-10-2019, 08:02 PM
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The Mets added a bunch of players through trades and signings this week (Jed Lowrie and Luis Avalan today).

The really bizarre thing is that with all the deals they made this years (except for Cano), there was no advance speculation or rumors that anything was happening. The first time anyone knew anything was happening was when the team announced the deal. Indeed, all the advance speculation and rumors all turned out to be untrue (other than Grandal, who turned down the team's offer).

I can't remember a time since the Internet came along that so many transactions were complete surprises.
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  #277  
Old 01-11-2019, 10:58 AM
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CC Sabathia got an all clear to resume baseball activities and fully expected to be the Yanks 5th man in the rotation this season. Keeping in mind, Yanks are still expecting young lefty Montgomery back part way through the year, the Gray talks are heating back up again.

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Yankees expected to sign Machado.
Many reports the Yanks are all but out of the Machado sweepstakes now.
  #278  
Old 01-11-2019, 01:08 PM
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Especially since they just signed DJ Lemahieu:

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2...w-york-yankees
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  #279  
Old 01-11-2019, 07:34 PM
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Excellent defender, but acquiring a Rockie with a road OPS of .673 doesn't send the heart aflutter.

Out of the Machado sweepstakes? Probably. Some think that with LeMahieu on board, Cashman will now trade for the Klubot in a package headed by Andujar and simultaneously nail down a Manny deal. Ah, dreamers.

I'm pretty happy with the team as it's now constituted. I expect a rebound season from Sanchez, and for first base to be more productive, so I'm not worried about offense. Sure, another top starter would be great but every team needs that. Another arm for the super-bullpen and I'd call it a very successful offseason.
  #280  
Old 01-12-2019, 07:51 AM
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DJ Lemahieu
Quote:
Code:
Split	G	GS	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	TB		
Home	482	449	1762	314	582	100	22	21	201	166	263	.330	.387	.448	.835	789		
Away	473	433	1683	187	444	63	9	28	148	112	314	.264	.311	.362	.673	609
Don't like the Home & Away Splits at all.
  #281  
Old 01-12-2019, 10:00 AM
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Please help settle this discussion I had last night with a few bar buddies. Letís say that Joe Maddon channels his inner Connie Mack and shows up to manage a game wearing a suit and a tie, is that allowed?
I'd love to see it, along with a complete old-time fan experience - no loud music or scoreboard displays, maybe a small band playing "Tessie, I Love You Madly".

Fat chance.

Last edited by Jackmannii; 01-12-2019 at 10:01 AM.
  #282  
Old 01-12-2019, 10:55 AM
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I'd love to see it, along with a complete old-time fan experience - no loud music or scoreboard displays, maybe a small band playing "Tessie, I Love You Madly".

Fat chance.
Didn't the Cubs do a retro day maybe 10-20 years ago where they turned off the PA system and had guys with megaphones making the announcements?

Last edited by BobLibDem; 01-12-2019 at 10:56 AM.
  #283  
Old 01-13-2019, 04:03 PM
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Dodgers reacquired catcher Russell Martin, with the Blue Jays eating most of his salary in exchange for a couple of minor leaguers. Guess the front office got tired of looking for a over-priced catcher and have decided to platoon Barnes and Martin until the prospects develop. Martin is coming off a crappy year, but is motivated and can play 3rd, 2nd and outfield as well as catch. If Seager comes back strong, I think we have a good team. Again.
  #284  
Old 01-13-2019, 09:30 PM
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DJ Lemahieu

Don't like the Home & Away Splits at all.
Interesting that a Rockie has more homers away than home. All the other splits are bad of course. The BB split is extra odd to me, but maybe he's less patient on the road? It's a weird stat line.
  #285  
Old 01-15-2019, 09:08 AM
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Dodgers reacquired catcher Russell Martin, with the Blue Jays eating most of his salary in exchange for a couple of minor leaguers. Guess the front office got tired of looking for a over-priced catcher and have decided to platoon Barnes and Martin until the prospects develop. Martin is coming off a crappy year, but is motivated and can play 3rd, 2nd and outfield as well as catch. If Seager comes back strong, I think we have a good team. Again.
That's a hell of a platoon when they both hit righthanded.

Martin isn't as bad a player as the .194 average would suggest, but the Dodgers are acting very strangely for a team with a shot at a World Series. Barnes/Martin is a potentially atrocious catching combo, but maybe the Dodgers have reason to think the 2017 Barnes is more real than the 2018 version.
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Old 01-15-2019, 10:43 AM
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They don't. I think the front office is betting big on the prospects developing quickly. Barnes will get dumped the minute somebody has a good month in AAA. Either that or they are banking on some decent talent becoming available around the All-Star break.
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Old 01-15-2019, 11:00 AM
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J.P. Realmuto is still out there. Just sayin'.
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:38 PM
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As long as the Marlins keep demanding Bellinger, that deal is dead. Now, I can see the Dodgers flipping Martin and a few prospects Miami's way, but not someone of Bellinger's abilities. If Miami wants a first baseman, send them Freese.
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:44 PM
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Another ex-Yankees pitcher makes the news, for the wrong reasons.

https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/01/15/jo...ankees-rangers
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:54 PM
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As long as the Marlins keep demanding Bellinger, that deal is dead. Now, I can see the Dodgers flipping Martin and a few prospects Miami's way, but not someone of Bellinger's abilities. If Miami wants a first baseman, send them Freese.
After last year's Marlins fire sale of maybe the best outfield in baseball in 2017, can you blame the Dodgers for holding out? Eventually Team Jeter will sell Realmuto for a bag of baseballs.
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Old 01-15-2019, 05:04 PM
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After last year's Marlins fire sale of maybe the best outfield in baseball in 2017, can you blame the Dodgers for holding out? Eventually Team Jeter will sell Realmuto for a bag of baseballs.
And not even new ones, old BP ones. And he'll pay the shipping AND the handling...
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Old 01-16-2019, 10:34 PM
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I have no idea how reliable this guy is, but:

Report: Phillies have visions of signing Harper, Keuchel, Kimbrel

Wow. Just. Wow.
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Old 01-17-2019, 03:30 AM
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Well, I had visions of being in a polyamorous marriage with Zooey Deschanel and Scarlett Johansson.

I'm still holding out hope for that, but I'm starting to think that the odds are getting worse everyday.
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Old 01-19-2019, 12:54 PM
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Why do sportswriters identify so strongly with players in salary disputes?

From an ESPN article about how lower echelon baseball stars are irked that Machado and Harper aren't signed to big deals yet:

"It's not just veteran free agents ages 30 and up who are still looking for fair contracts. Now it's the younger stars of the game....

On his Instagram account, San Francisco Giants third baseman Evan Longoria also expressed his dismay over the situation and urged the players to "stand strong for what we believe we are worth."

"You work for that moment in your career," (Kris) Bryant said. "You feel like every team should want you. For them to not have that, it could be disheartening for them. ... It's not about the greed. They've put in the work to warrant contracts that are worthy of it."


http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2...-manny-machado

The reporter doesn't question the idea that owners are being "unfair", though it's probably hard for most fans to believe that (for example) Harper getting an 8-year deal for $240 million would be horribly unfair since he deserves 10 years at $325 million.

I could understand this apparent feeling of brotherhood back in the 1950s when reporters' salaries weren't that different from those of average ballplayers, and both stood in opposition to bosses who paid them as little as they could get away with.

But now that it's multimillionaire players squaring off against mega-million or billion-dollar owners, it's hard for me to comprehend the worker brotherhood angle.

Not that baseball players shouldn't go for the highest salaries they can get (I'm fine with greed), but I'm not terribly sympathetic to the whining about "unfairness".

*note that Kris Bryant made about $10.9 million dollars in 2018, and Longoria is in the middle of a deal that pays him an average annual salary of $16,666,667 through 2023.
  #295  
Old 01-19-2019, 04:23 PM
RickJay RickJay is online now
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The evidence is clear; long term deals to hitters usually fail. It is perfectly rational to not hand them out.

Evan Longoria is 33 years old, and last year he hit .244 with sixteen home runs, the worst year of his career. He isn't going to get BETTER. His contract is Example A of why they're dumb.
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  #296  
Old 01-20-2019, 11:10 AM
Jas09 Jas09 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jackmannii View Post
The reporter doesn't question the idea that owners are being "unfair", though it's probably hard for most fans to believe that (for example) Harper getting an 8-year deal for $240 million would be horribly unfair since he deserves 10 years at $325 million.

I could understand this apparent feeling of brotherhood back in the 1950s when reporters' salaries weren't that different from those of average ballplayers, and both stood in opposition to bosses who paid them as little as they could get away with.

But now that it's multimillionaire players squaring off against mega-million or billion-dollar owners, it's hard for me to comprehend the worker brotherhood angle.
I believe it stems from the inherent unfairness of some aspects of the CBA. In particular the six years of team control, particularly the non-arbitration years. The expectation (which had worked OK in the not-too-distant past) was that a star player would get paid "below market value" during those 6 years and then cash in on a big deal after that - getting overpaid somewhat. Teams have wised up, and are not paying over-market prices for mid-career (let alone end-career) players. So now players get paid below-market for the first 6 years or so (sometimes longer if they sign a contract after one or two seasons to buy out their arbitration years, trading upside on their first post-arbitration salary for guaranteed millions now) without the mega-deal at the end of that period.

I actually think this could lead to some pretty bad labor strife when the next CBA comes up as the current-generation players that are getting squeezed by this system hold out for early free agency or a player-friendly modification to the arbitration system (and removal of the Qualifying Offer).

It also does't help that the rules for drafted players are so much different than international players.

I'm sure the players (and writers, of course) are well aware of the data and trends here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybr...venues-in-2018. Teams have been working very hard to stay under the luxury tax thresholds, and that has certainly impacted what players are getting paid.
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Old 01-20-2019, 12:36 PM
RickJay RickJay is online now
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The structure is definitely warped. It would be a lot of logical sense to have free agency start earlier.

That said, look; of course the owners will do everything they can to cut costs. And as long as they do it legally (e.g. no collusion) of course they should, just as the players should do whatever they can to get big paychecks.

Where the problem lies is that what's good for the sport's revenue prospects does not align with either the pure self-interest of either the players or owners.
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  #298  
Old 01-20-2019, 01:13 PM
Rysto Rysto is offline
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Why do sportswriters identify so strongly with players in salary disputes?
Because big money deals make big headlines and get clicks. It's pure self-interest by the reporters.
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Old 01-20-2019, 01:34 PM
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Because big money deals make big headlines and get clicks. It's pure self-interest by the reporters.
The thing is, sportswriters didn't used to identify with the players. Players once upon a time were almost always cast as greedy jerks.

I don't think there's any one reason this changed, but would suggest it may be a combination of:

1. Owners used to be legitimately more of a breed of struggling businessmen than they are now. Back in the day, running a profitable MLB team wasn't easy. Now, most teams are insanely rich, often owned by corporate ownership that is richer still. It's hard to sympathize - or hell, identify in any way at all - with Crane Capital, Rogers Communications, or Incapital LLC, and MLB is way, way richer than it once was.

2. The notion that higher salaries results in higher ticket prices, which is economically illiterate and totally backward of the truth, used to prevail, but sportswriters are wise to that nonsense now.

3. The players, obscenely rich though they may be, have at least always been clear and upfront; they want to be paid market value. Bitching about making millions instead of more millions may seem vulgar, and IS vulgar, but they're honest about it. The owners have been, by far, the dishonest partner, not only in the old school bullshit about how they were on the fans' side, but they're the ones who engaged in the collusion scandals, threatening to contract teams, and who've held cities for ransom to build them stadiums, and

4. The 1994 cancellation is generally blamed on the owners, and rightly so.
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Old 01-20-2019, 01:41 PM
dalej42 dalej42 is offline
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Anyone been to a Colorado Rockies game? I’ve been talking with a friend of mine in Denver who isn’t much of a baseball fan, but wants to go with me since I can explain the sport to him. Are tickets reasonable, I usually use Stubhub for baseball tickets. Any particularly good parts of the ballpark to sit in? I usually prefer sitting on the the 3rd base line , but I can sit anywhere. Any other tips? We will be using public transit or Uber, we both enjoy good beer.
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