Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #201  
Old 09-11-2014, 11:11 AM
Turble Turble is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 2,225
You only get one quest per day. You can turn down the quest by clicking the red X at the top right of the box and it will give you a different quest -- you can only do that once per day.

Quests do stack up if you don't complete them on the day given; you can have up to three active at a time. If you have more than three quests lined up, each time you finish one, another in your list will become active. I don't know if there is a maximum number you can have lined up, but only three will be active at the same time.

You pay money to get card packs or to play Arena -- money does not get you additional quests.
  #202  
Old 09-11-2014, 11:45 AM
Frylock Frylock is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turble View Post

You pay money to get card packs or to play Arena -- money does not get you additional quests.
I didn't think it did--money gets you cards, and quests get you gold which gets you cards. So one can shortcut the need to do quests by instead paying money.
  #203  
Old 09-11-2014, 12:17 PM
Turble Turble is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 2,225
Right. You also get 10 gold for winning three games -- maximum of 100 gold per day gained this way.

Use the gold to buy card packs directly, or to play Arena, where you get a card pack and some random amount of additional gold and/or dust (used to craft additional cards) depending on how many games you win.

BTW, I suggest going right to Ranked play. You're starting at the bottom so you have nothing to lose. In Casual play, you are not up against equally skilled players; you are up against anybody with any kind of deck. In Ranked mode, they make some effort to match players of equal ability -- except for the beginning of the month when everybody gets reset to lower rank.
  #204  
Old 09-11-2014, 12:26 PM
Yllaria Yllaria is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Stockton
Posts: 10,545
Are the bought packs more likely to have a good card than, say, a three-loss arena pack? Also, is there any reason to do expert practice rather than playing?
  #205  
Old 09-11-2014, 12:59 PM
Turble Turble is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 2,225
The packs are the same -- random but with at least one Rare.

I'd say the practice mode is just to get you familiar with the mechanics of the game and to earn some cards by leveling up. Note that Level is different from Rank; characters level pretty quickly up to the max of 60, gaining basic and expert cards at predetermined levels -- Rank is only gained by playing Ranked mode. You still gain levels while playing other modes, so still get the new cards.

This is a competitive PvP game. Playing against the AI isn't what it's about. The experience of playing against live opponents is the only way to really get an understanding of the game. It will take a lot of experience to get good at it but gaining that experience can be a lot of fun.

Have fun, and learn from your mistakes (and the mistakes of your opponents.)
  #206  
Old 09-11-2014, 01:03 PM
Grumman Grumman is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 8,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yllaria View Post
Also, is there any reason to do expert practice rather than playing?
If you manage to beat every Expert AI deck, you get 100 gold.
  #207  
Old 09-11-2014, 01:18 PM
Yllaria Yllaria is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Stockton
Posts: 10,545
Thanks guys. It's good to know that there's no reason to go back and complete the expert practise.
  #208  
Old 09-11-2014, 01:55 PM
Turble Turble is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 2,225
I hope we haven't forgotten about any other little bonuses like that mentioned by Grumman.

There are some bonuses that pop up along the way, like some gold for winning !,000 games. I haven't really paid attention to them.

And for the record, I did play the Practice mode all the way through ... I started when the game was first released and didn't have the benefit of asking questions of more experienced players.

The game has some flaws and frustrations, but I still give it a strong "Try this game" rating.
  #209  
Old 09-11-2014, 09:43 PM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: No Gum Here
Posts: 2,950
Mmm.. the first arena is free?

You can get a full list of possible quests and rewards here.
  #210  
Old 09-11-2014, 11:31 PM
bldysabba bldysabba is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turble View Post
You only get one quest per day. You can turn down the quest by clicking the red X at the top right of the box and it will give you a different quest -- you can only do that once per day.

Quests do stack up if you don't complete them on the day given; you can have up to three active at a time. If you have more than three quests lined up, each time you finish one, another in your list will become active. I don't know if there is a maximum number you can have lined up, but only three will be active at the same time.
I'm don't think this information is correct, although perhaps I'm misunderstanding something about your post. You only get one quest per day. If you don't complete your quests, you'll get a second quest the next day, and a third the day after that. However, you can only have a maximum of three quests at any one time. They are all active, and they are all you have (although you can switch out one of your three for a different quest, which you can do once per day). If you wait four days, and finish one quest, you will not get a fourth quest immediately, you will be left with only two.

Last edited by bldysabba; 09-11-2014 at 11:32 PM.
  #211  
Old 09-12-2014, 01:29 AM
Turble Turble is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 2,225
I'm not 100% sure but I do think quests will stack up and get a new one revealed when you finish one of the three active ones. Haven't done it myself but I seem to think I've seen it happen on Trump's twitch stream. Maybe it used to be this way and it was changed, or maybe I'm wrong.
  #212  
Old 09-12-2014, 02:37 AM
bldysabba bldysabba is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turble View Post
I'm not 100% sure but I do think quests will stack up and get a new one revealed when you finish one of the three active ones.
I think the only way that could happen is if you're playing straddling the new 'day' time. When you start playing you have three quests, server clock goes past 1 AM or 2 AM or whatever it is, you complete a quest during your game, and when the game ends, you'll get a new quest.

It turns out that you can 'sort of' queue up an extra quest. If you have three quests, accumulated over three days, and on the fourth day you finish two of them, you still won't get any quests immediately, but on the next day you'll get two. This I was not aware of.

http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Quest
Quote:
Players do not need to log in each day in order to be awarded new daily quests. They will accumulate in the player's profile, up to a maximum of 3, and will be presented to the player when they next log in. Players are unable to accumulate daily quests beyond the maximum of 3. If a player's quest log is already full when first logging in for the day, the player can still get that day's quest by completing two or three quests; upon logging in the next day, the player will be awarded two new daily quests.
  #213  
Old 09-12-2014, 03:30 AM
Taber Taber is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,979
Big nerfs coming. Leeroy Jenkins will cost 5, and so will Starving Buzzard. The Buzzard will also become a 3/2. This will happen on September 22, and you'll be able to dust them for full value for awhile after. Jenkins will still work fine in my aggro hunter deck, but I'll probably still dust him for someone more exciting, like unlimited fireball guy. I can't imagine buzzard could be good at 5, but we'll see.

Last edited by Taber; 09-12-2014 at 03:30 AM.
  #214  
Old 09-12-2014, 03:49 AM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: No Gum Here
Posts: 2,950
Wow. Those are pretty big nerfs. Both with become neigh-unplayable, it looks like.. not unexpected, considering how they affect the meta.
  #215  
Old 09-12-2014, 03:56 AM
Grumman Grumman is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 8,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taber View Post
Big nerfs coming. Leeroy Jenkins will cost 5, and so will Starving Buzzard. The Buzzard will also become a 3/2. This will happen on September 22, and you'll be able to dust them for full value for awhile after. Jenkins will still work fine in my aggro hunter deck, but I'll probably still dust him for someone more exciting, like unlimited fireball guy. I can't imagine buzzard could be good at 5, but we'll see.
I dislike both nerfs. Not for being nerfs, but for being uncharacterful nerfs. I'd want the two cards to be reworked so they feel like an impatient hothead and a scavenger.

If it was me, Leeroy Jenkin's attack on the first turn would not be Charge, it would be a Battlecry. This would make him a character who refuses to wait until he's been buffed or enemy taunts have been debuffed - if you play him, he's going to hit something, right now.

And Starving Buzzard would work on minions being killed instead of minions being summoned, in some way.
  #216  
Old 09-12-2014, 05:41 AM
bldysabba bldysabba is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taber View Post
Big nerfs coming. Leeroy Jenkins will cost 5, and so will Starving Buzzard. The Buzzard will also become a 3/2. This will happen on September 22, and you'll be able to dust them for full value for awhile after. Jenkins will still work fine in my aggro hunter deck, but I'll probably still dust him for someone more exciting, like unlimited fireball guy. I can't imagine buzzard could be good at 5, but we'll see.
The Leeroy nerf seems fair, but the buzzard nerf sounds wrong. A 5 mana 3/2 that draws a card whenever you play a beast? 3/2's usually cost 2 mana. Even if you add the card draw text, having to spend 3 additional mana to play it just seems out of all proportion.
  #217  
Old 09-12-2014, 10:56 AM
Wilson Wilson is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Metro NYC
Posts: 1,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by bldysabba View Post
....but the buzzard nerf sounds wrong. A 5 mana 3/2 that draws a card whenever you play a beast? 3/2's usually cost 2 mana. Even if you add the card draw text, having to spend 3 additional mana to play it just seems out of all proportion.
I imagine it's Unleash the Hounds synergy?
  #218  
Old 09-12-2014, 12:20 PM
bldysabba bldysabba is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson View Post
I imagine it's Unleash the Hounds synergy?
Even with UTH synergy, 5 mana seems horrendously high for a 3/2 buzzard. Look at the Gadgetzaan for instance. It can draw you so many more cards, but it is still a 4/4.

ETA: I read a bit more after posting my original comment, and some of the pro players are actually calling it the new "Worst card in the game"

Last edited by bldysabba; 09-12-2014 at 12:22 PM.
  #219  
Old 09-13-2014, 12:04 AM
Frylock Frylock is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,721
So this guy just played three two-mana cards, the first two doubling a minion's health, the third changing the minion's attack value to equal its health value.

This time it was a silverback elder being converted into a 16/16 w/ taunt.

Next time it will be the berserker thing being converted into a 28/28 that just gets stronger each time it's attacked.

For a cost of six mana.

Certainly it is possible to have a card which removes all these buffs or executes that minion, but this would be a matter of luck. Other than that I'm pretty flummoxed.

In the game, I didn't see any option other than to blow my entire (several minions wide) spread killing the thing, losing like 15 mana or more in value over that six mana play.

Last edited by Frylock; 09-13-2014 at 12:04 AM.
  #220  
Old 09-13-2014, 12:09 AM
Johnny Bravo's Avatar
Johnny Bravo Johnny Bravo is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 7,587
Silence is king. Hard removal is also king.
  #221  
Old 09-13-2014, 12:29 AM
bldysabba bldysabba is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,177
Usually, especially if you're just starting out, keeping the opposing player's board clear is also king. I personally think the "Get one massive creature on the board" style is far too risky to pay dividends. There is so much hard removal and silence out there, that putting all your eggs in one fragile, if massive, bucket seems like a surefire way to lose.
  #222  
Old 09-13-2014, 09:31 AM
Frylock Frylock is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Bravo View Post
Silence is king. Hard removal is also king.
Well, I did mention both of those in my post...
  #223  
Old 09-13-2014, 09:32 AM
Frylock Frylock is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,721
So what you guys are saying, I think, is it was just basically my bad luck that none of my silences etc were available when this happened?
  #224  
Old 09-13-2014, 09:34 AM
Frylock Frylock is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,721
Hey here's another question. I keep seeing people "conceding" at the start of turn one. I ALSO keep seeing a very wide disparity in the quality of play at my very low rank. Some people seem to be fumbling around just as I am. Others have these incredibly efficient decks and know exactly what to do with them. One guy had a full murlock array with buffs stacked against me by like turn three, and I was dead by the next turn. Another (just now) had 20 armor added to his 30 hitpoints before I could even get a blow in, and was never without a weapon up. I'm not sure he even used minions to attack.

So I guess there are these people, right, who enjoy beating people more than they enjoy playing against people they might lose to?

Last edited by Frylock; 09-13-2014 at 09:35 AM.
  #225  
Old 09-13-2014, 10:42 AM
Palooka Palooka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 2,519
Yes, I'm sure people like that are playing the game. Some people also keep their ranking low so they can quickly beat new players with aggro decks to grind gold or golden hero portraits. You don't run into them any longer once you're at rank 18 or better.
  #226  
Old 09-13-2014, 11:58 AM
bldysabba bldysabba is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frylock View Post
So what you guys are saying, I think, is it was just basically my bad luck that none of my silences etc were available when this happened?
Partly. I think one has to accept that the game has a random component. Some games will go really well for you, and sometimes you'll be dead on turn 3. What you're trying to do is get your average win percentage up.
  #227  
Old 09-13-2014, 01:26 PM
Turble Turble is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 2,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frylock View Post
So what you guys are saying, I think, is it was just basically my bad luck that none of my silences etc were available when this happened?
It's certainly possible it was just bad luck. It is also possible it was your lack of experience that allowed it to happen.

I'll take a WAG and suggest that your mistake was on Turn 1 when you didn't recognize tha threat posed by your opponent's Northshire Cleric. You let it live, figuring it only did one damage, it drew several cards, and your opponent was able to put together a four card combo out of his fistful of cards while you only had a couple of cards in your hand.

Priests won't always have a Northshire Cleric to play on the first turn, but many will try to. Plan for it and kill it as efficiently as you can.

And kill the warrior's Armorsmith. Even go so far, if you can, as to mulligan to try to be able to do four damage on Turn 2 when you're against a warrior. And don't let him draw three cards with his Acolytes.

A lot of the game is luck, but there's is a lot of thinking and planning involved, too. Have an idea what you're going to do next turn, and the turn or two after that. Sure, the next card you draw might change the plan, but have a plan.

One more tip about what may be the most common mistake I see, and I see it a lot: If during your turn you are going to make a play that will draw a card (for example, killing a minion with a Loot Hoarder), do it first. The card you draw can change everything. Situations may come up where you can't make the draw first, but if you can, do it ... draw first.
  #228  
Old 09-13-2014, 03:34 PM
Frylock Frylock is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,721
Actually I think of card draw as pretty powerful and put a high priority of gaining it and denying it to my opponent. (I've wondered whether I prioritize it too much.) I have no idea whether that card was involved in this game though.

Anyway, now I know this threat exists, so maybe I'll manage to make it happen less often in the future. Sometimes you're just screwed though.
  #229  
Old 09-14-2014, 12:51 PM
Frylock Frylock is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,721
Is there out there a sort of "Day[9]" for hearthstone? I.e. somebody who goes over games with commentary for people learning the game? I know he plays Hearthstone on his Starcraft stream sometimes, but he doesn't seem to do a lot of commentary during those games, mostly just plays them for fun and lets us watch.
  #230  
Old 09-14-2014, 01:03 PM
Frylock Frylock is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,721
Oh hey I just found out (after posting the above) Day[9] has a whole nother show, called "Hearthstone Decktacular", where he does just what I was looking for. So that's good to know.
  #231  
Old 09-14-2014, 01:12 PM
Grumman Grumman is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 8,508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frylock View Post
Is there out there a sort of "Day[9]" for hearthstone? I.e. somebody who goes over games with commentary for people learning the game? I know he plays Hearthstone on his Starcraft stream sometimes, but he doesn't seem to do a lot of commentary during those games, mostly just plays them for fun and lets us watch.
You could try watching one of Trump's videos, and see whether his attempts to explain his thought processes are sufficient.
  #232  
Old 09-18-2014, 12:13 AM
Frylock Frylock is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,721
Played Arena three times when i first got the game, lost 9 out of 12 games.

Went and practiced a bunch first with normal and expert AIs then in ranked.

Scored a bunch of gold. Went back to try arena again. Played three times. Lost 9 out of 12 games.

I am just monstrously bad at this game.
  #233  
Old 09-18-2014, 01:07 AM
bldysabba bldysabba is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frylock View Post
Played Arena three times when i first got the game, lost 9 out of 12 games.

Went and practiced a bunch first with normal and expert AIs then in ranked.

Scored a bunch of gold. Went back to try arena again. Played three times. Lost 9 out of 12 games.

I am just monstrously bad at this game.
Arena can be tough especially when starting out. Hell, like I reported a few posts ago, Arena can be tough even when you get a lot of experience with the game. Trump is a good Arena 'coach', try watching a few of his Arena drafts and runs and that might help you pick up some of the finer points of Arena strategy.
  #234  
Old 09-18-2014, 03:10 AM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: No Gum Here
Posts: 2,950
Yeah, I didn't really get "good" at arena until recently. If you go even 3-3, that's a reasonable run. 5 wins is average (for the "reasonably good" crowd), and anything above that is gravy.

It takes some familiarity with the cards, the concept of a mana curve, and so on before you can really draft a good deck, and after that, you need to pilot it well. Don't lose heart, though! practice makes perfect!
  #235  
Old 09-18-2014, 06:18 AM
Grumman Grumman is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 8,508
My past dozen games have been against nothing but netdecks. At this point, I'm feeling inclined to just rank up to 20 each month and leave it at that, on the off chance that one day Blizzard stops being completely shit at balancing their game.
  #236  
Old 09-24-2014, 11:05 PM
Frylock Frylock is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,721
I seem to finally have a deck that's getting me some wins reliably. I was surprised by this as it was a bit of a throwaway deck I was expecting not to really work. It's extremely heavy on the two-mana cards.

What do you think of it, and how might it be improved? (Of course I only have certain cards available as I'm still pretty new to the game but any suggestions would be welcome anyway.)

http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilder...1;629:1;636:1;

The games I win are generally won through unexpected giant bursts of damage via damage buffs and windfury. (Silences help with taunts so I can just hit the opponent hero in the face.)

Last edited by Frylock; 09-24-2014 at 11:07 PM.
  #237  
Old 09-25-2014, 11:17 PM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: No Gum Here
Posts: 2,950
Ok, so I've looked at your deck, and rather than build your deck for you, how about if I give you some tips on how you should build your deck?

Generally, when building decks on a budget, you look for stuff that gives you the most bang for your buck. A good rule of thumb is that a minion should have 2x it's mana cost in stats. So, for example, a Chillwind Yeti that costs 4 mana has 4 attack + 5 heath, with is 9 stats - it's a good card. A Silverback Patriach costs 3 mana but only has 1 attack and 4 health - it's a bad card.

The card's text can affect it's value (Knife Juggler being a very well known card that's good for its text), but generally you'll do fine keeping this rule in mind.

One downside of the card's text is that text also "costs" you in terms of stats. For example, taunt. Generally, for 90% of the game, taunt doesn't matter - your health is a resource that can be used as much as your mana or your cards, and you're in the game at 29 health as much as you are at 10. However, taunt means that your minion is less good than it otherwise might have been - compare Senjin' Shieldmasta with Chillwind Yeti, Senjin is a 3/5 with taunt and Yeti is 4/5 vanilla. You just traded 1 attack for the text "taunt". Most of the time it's not worth it, decide for yourself whenever you have to play a taunt card, think about what that taunt is really doing for you, or if you would rather have an additional attack, or some other text other than "taunt".

Think also about card advantage - cards are one of your primary resources, and might even be your most important resource, given that they are your attack, your defence, the only way you can interact with your opponent. If you have to spend 1 card to take out 2 of their cards (for example, your 4/5 Yeti takes out an opposing 4/4 Azure drake and is left with a 4/1 Yeti ready to take out something else), then that's fantastic. Look out for cards that can 2 for 1 like that. On the other hand a card like Goldshire Footman (1/2 taunt) gets killed by almost anything from your opponent (say a 3/2 Bloodfen Raptor), and now he still has a 3/1 Raptor. Not good.

I see you mentioning combos, and notice that you are running 2 copies of bloodlust, Young Dragonhawk etc. While it can be impressive to win by bloodlusting your board of totems or putting Rockbiter on the Windfury minion, keep in mind that you are relying on a combo. Sure you remember when you win, but confirmation bias - you don't remember all the times where you just had a Dragonhawk and tossed it on the board and it got taken out by a random AOE resulting in a completely wasted card for you. Or when you had 2 bloodlusts in your hand, and they were completely dead cards because your opponent was sweeping your board each turn and you never had the chance to use them. This is why budget decks generally aren't combo decks - you rarely have the right cards to make the combo worth waiting for (e.g. Shadowstep/Leeroy) and you rarely have the cards to ensure that you will draw into your combo cards (Doomsayer/Frost Nova). So my advice is to rely less on combos and more on just pure value, making efficient trades, and winning. It's also much better for learning the "standard" game.

Think also about your mana curve. Generally you will want about 6 2mana minions (known as 2-drops, because you drop them on turn 2), and maybe 4 3-drops. This is so that you don't get all your high cost cards in the beginning of the game and allow your opponent to flood his board, out from which you never recover. On the other hand, if all you have a 2-drops, and from turn 4 onwards you are playing 2 cards at a time, you run out of cards very quickly. If you get lucky and draw the right cards you can kinda keep up (or you might outright win by then), but a better strategy is to include some higher cost minions so that you can "curve out" and play a minion on 3, 4, 5, and so on. Keep in mind that higher cost minions are generally better value as well - consider a Boulderfist Ogre (6/7) for 6 mana, that's more stats than 2 windspeakers, and after killing the 2 windspeakers he can still hit face for 6 damage a pop. Sometimes, "BIG" is pretty good "text".

I will say one direct thing about your deck, I saw the inclusion of 2x Bloodfen Raptor, and in a Shaman deck, Bloodfen Raptor is strictly worse than any other 3/2 because other cards have text (Ooze has destroy weapon, Knife Juggler has a lot of bonus damage, Faerie Dragon can't be targeted) and so on. 3/2 minions are good, no doubt (mostly because they can trade up (i.e. kill 3 mana minions)), but even among 3/2s there are differences. The 2 drop slot is also not thaaat important for Shaman since you can always totem, so consider your curve and consider adding some higher cost minions, especially high quality minions like Fire Elemental (which as a basic card you should have 2 of). Low mana cost removal like Rock Biter may also help with managing your opponent's board.

Remember, the most important resource is not your health, it's the board. Make sure his side is clear and your side is full, and you're likely to be winning, regardless of health totals. For that reason, and this is a Shaman particular tip, Rockbiter with your face. Yes, you take damage, but your minion stays on the board. Rockbiter is 3 damage this turn only, a minion on the board is infinite damage as long as you (or your opponent~!) can protect it.
  #238  
Old 09-26-2014, 03:41 PM
bldysabba bldysabba is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,177
Some poor guy just had the cruelest Arena game ever. I was playing a priest with one loss and no wins. Went up against a Paladin. On turn 2 Coin + Thoughtsteal gave me his Tirion Fordring. Turn 5 I drew a faceless manipulator, Turn 6 I draw a shadow word death. Sure enough, turn 8 he plays Tirion. I copy and kill it. Somehow, with great difficulty he kills the faceslessed Tirion, only for my thought stolen Tirion to come down. And then I thoughtsteal an Argent protector and a swamp ooze, taking away even the consolation Ashbringer from him. I'm amazed that he didn't rage quit.
  #239  
Old 10-02-2014, 01:44 PM
iamthewalrus(:3= iamthewalrus(:3= is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 11,382
I've been playing Hearthstone for the last few months, pretty casually. I'm a good Magic player, and the skills in play and deckbuilding translate over pretty well, though I obviously haven't put the same amount of effort into becoming really good at Hearthstone.

I think it's a fun game and I like many of the choices that they made to keep it simple while still making the gameplay interesting. Making the placement of creatures matter is awesome. It opens up really interesting and complicated sequencing plays without a lot of complicated state you have to care about.

Mostly I've been playing it because my computer that runs Magic Online has been in storage. But Hearthstone definitely has a lower time commitment. I don't usually play Magic unless I can set aside a few hours for a draft, but I can fire up Hearthstone when I have 15 minutes free.

One of the things that's really frustrating for me is that you can't actually tell what many cards do by reading them. You have to go look it up on some website somewhere. And I don't mean complicated interactions (which I full expect to have to look up), but really basic stuff.

Examples: My opponent played a card yesterday that said he could draw a "Dream Card" each turn. What the hell is that? No way to know without pulling up a web page.

The 1/2 that makes 2 1/1s when it dies is a Beast. Are the 1/1s Beasts as well? That is sometimes relevant, and you either have to just remember or pull up another web page.

I'm in Arena drafting, and I have the option to take a card that gives my opponent "two Bananas". WTF? Back to the web browser.

I realize that fully-digital CCGs don't necessarily need to explain what the cards do in order to work, since the game engine knows what they do, but it seems like a dumb idea to not build them to the same standard that in-print games do, which is that you don't make cards that can't be understood without a separate resource. Given the 20 year history of CCGs as games that you can learn how to play just by reading the cards, I'm surprised that they screwed this up.

Last edited by iamthewalrus(:3=; 10-02-2014 at 01:44 PM.
  #240  
Old 10-02-2014, 03:31 PM
bldysabba bldysabba is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthewalrus(:3= View Post
One of the things that's really frustrating for me is that you can't actually tell what many cards do by reading them. You have to go look it up on some website somewhere. And I don't mean complicated interactions (which I full expect to have to look up), but really basic stuff.

Examples: My opponent played a card yesterday that said he could draw a "Dream Card" each turn. What the hell is that? No way to know without pulling up a web page.

The 1/2 that makes 2 1/1s when it dies is a Beast. Are the 1/1s Beasts as well? That is sometimes relevant, and you either have to just remember or pull up another web page.

I'm in Arena drafting, and I have the option to take a card that gives my opponent "two Bananas". WTF? Back to the web browser.

I realize that fully-digital CCGs don't necessarily need to explain what the cards do in order to work, since the game engine knows what they do, but it seems like a dumb idea to not build them to the same standard that in-print games do, which is that you don't make cards that can't be understood without a separate resource. Given the 20 year history of CCGs as games that you can learn how to play just by reading the cards, I'm surprised that they screwed this up.
I wouldn't go so far as to say they screwed it up. Out of the more than 400 cards, you've come up with three examples, two of which are legendaries which have very unusual effects. The haunted creeper does tell you it summons spectral spiders. And while it requires you to make the connection that ghosts can't be beasts, the information is there. And I'll bet you can't come up with too many more examples. For the most part I think they've done a great job of telling you exactly what the cards do. Maybe you've run into the cases where they don't in quick succession and the confirmation bias has made it seem more prevalent than it is.
  #241  
Old 10-02-2014, 04:38 PM
iamthewalrus(:3= iamthewalrus(:3= is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 11,382
There are way more than those three. They were just the ones that came immediately to mind. I'm sure that there are plenty I haven't even seen yet, but there's a whole class of cards that has this problem.

Every card that creates a minion other than itself (like, puts a token into play) fails tp specify the cost or the type of those minions. There are quite a lot of those.

There ought to be a way to figure these things out in-game. If I hover over "Taunt", it tells me what Taunt does. How come I can't hover over "Banana", or "Spectral Spider" and have it show me what those cards are?

They clearly made this decision on purpose because they thought it added to the fun. It's not like they couldn't have put "(1-cost spells that give +1/+1)" after "Bananas", and I'm sure someone suggested it. I'm just think it's a dumb choice in a game otherwise filled with all sorts of really well-made choices.
  #242  
Old 10-02-2014, 09:30 PM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: No Gum Here
Posts: 2,950
Information overload, though. I mean, is it really worth saying (1-cost spells that give +1/+1) on the card, when every time you play afterwards, you'll know what a Banana is?

It's like saying in Magic, when tapped put a Mountain into play. What's a Mountain and what does it do? Of course, you know what a Mountain is. Same with the cards in HS - after the first time, it's clear enough what the cards do.

I kinda dislike Ysera's dream cards as well, but there's just no elegant way around it - you can't very well have Ysera's text box be 4 paragraphs. Elite Tauren Chieftain is even worse, since it's so much rarer - I wouldn't be able to tell you what the Power Chord cards are.

Is it worse than not knowing that Mage has a card called Flamestrike that will deal 4 to all your units, though? I mean, you have to go online to look that up too, and the first time you get hit with Flamestrike, you'll curse to the high heavens. Would it be worse if your opponent played a card beforehand saying "place a Flamestrike in your hand"?
  #243  
Old 10-03-2014, 12:46 PM
Turble Turble is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 2,225
Some info for those who like to play Hunter:

This deck, #3 EU Legendary Hunter Naiman is the best I have seen. I found it the day the season was about to reset and I went from Rank 6*** to Rank 1*** in the final five hours of the season -- just ran out of time.

The guy is streaming right now (12:40 PM Friday) -- he is up to Rank 3. It is his first time streaming so there is some flakiness and dropouts, the cards are in Russian, and the graphic quality is not very high. The deck requires two Snake Traps and a Sea Giant. If that stuff doesn't put you off and you want to climb the ladder fast, have a look

twitch.tv/Naiman_hs

Last edited by Turble; 10-03-2014 at 12:47 PM.
  #244  
Old 10-06-2014, 12:25 AM
iamthewalrus(:3= iamthewalrus(:3= is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 11,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabby_Cat View Post
Information overload, though. I mean, is it really worth saying (1-cost spells that give +1/+1) on the card, when every time you play afterwards, you'll know what a Banana is?
Again, I'm not saying that it should spell it out immediately. But the keyword abilities are a perfect example. If you hover over a card with Taunt, it shows you what that ability does. No need to always put that on the card, you just have it pop up in hovertext when necessary.

Quote:
Is it worse than not knowing that Mage has a card called Flamestrike that will deal 4 to all your units, though? I mean, you have to go online to look that up too, and the first time you get hit with Flamestrike, you'll curse to the high heavens.
I think it is worse. It's not strategically worse, in the sense that it's more likely to make you lose games. But it's way more frustrating.

My expectation when playing a game is that I will run into cards I haven't seen before. I think that's part of the fun of discovery in a CCG, and I like learning from my mistakes and realizing that when someone was playing in a way I didn't understand, it was actually because they had a card I didn't know about. But when I have the opportunity to play a card, I want to be able to play it to the best of my ability. Which requires actually knowing what the hell it does. "Bananas" with no reminder text is being cute at the expense of playability. But, obviously someone at Blizzard disagrees, since they clearly made a conscious choice to do it that way.

Quote:
Would it be worse if your opponent played a card beforehand saying "place a Flamestrike in your hand"?
A thousand times yes! That's just being annoying. It's giving you information, and it could give you actually relevant information, but it won't. Also, it doesn't scale particularly well. It works great when Hearthstone has a few hundred cards. Magic has 10,000+ cards. Remembering what they all do by name will become harder and harder.
  #245  
Old 11-12-2014, 04:09 AM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 27,619
Started playing a couple of weeks ago. Amazed at how bad I am - I probably went something like 20-60 over my first 80 games. Of course I was working with almost entirely basic decks, and that does put a damper on things. More recently I'm probably winning at about a 40-45% win rate, which is a significant improvement. Haven't gotten past rank 15 or 16 though.

I generally average about 2.5 wins per arena run and I think my max was 5.

I haven't put any effort into reading about the metagame or anything - just trying to learn by playing - so I guess that slowed my developmental curve.

Could someone run down the basics for me on what different types of decks do? What's a zoo deck vs a control deck vs a miracle deck, etc? Or point me to a resource that covers that.

Which types of decks match up better with what classes?

I'd like to learn about the game in concept rather than just copy someone else's deck - where should I go? Should I just start watching Trump videos from the start, or is there a better way to go about it?

Is Naxxramas worth it? it seems like it'd really build up your deck with a lot of useful stuff. I probably won't ever spend more than that initial $25 on the game, but I'd consider it. Otherwise I'd do daily quests for arena runs, since I find the arena fun. But it seems like Naxx could give a big boost early on.

My favorite deck to play has been a priest deck based around inner fire/divine spirit/power word shield/lightspawn. I won a game recently by having an oasis snapjaw on the board, applying power word shield for 9hp, divine spirit for 18, another divine spirit for 36, inner fire to make it 36/36, and then instantly killed the enemy at like 26 health, all in one turn. Very silly.
  #246  
Old 11-12-2014, 04:32 AM
Jragon's Avatar
Jragon Jragon is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Miskatonic University
Posts: 10,448
A zoo deck floods the board with low-cost minions. A control deck is meant to essentially maintain pace until late game when you quickly gain tempo and stomp the opponent with late-game cards or combos. I'm not entirely clear what a "miracle" deck is in general, but searching around it seems to stem from MTG and refers to essentially stacking spell combos and buffs to make superpowerful minions (apparently it comes form "Miracle-Gro" despite the fact that there's a MTG card called "miracle").

Generally decks fall into 3 categories: aggro, midrange, and control. The vast, vast majority fall into midrange. A midrange deck is meant to be control or aggro depending on the situation. A rule of thumb for the game is that each game has an aggro player and a control player depending on the decks and the situation, and your key to winning is figuring out which one you are. Of course, even the most hardy-hardcore aggro deck can be control in the right circumstances, and the most late game deck can be aggro if you're playing an even slower deck (or an opponent with really crappy draws).

Generally, the Hearthstone meta isn't something to worry about at low levels. At higher levels the meta is kind of a cycle -- certain decks gain popularity, and are soft-countered by other decks. A meta strategy is sort of to figure out where the meta currently is and pick the appropriate soft counter, and then switch to that deck's soft counter before it becomes the new FOTM. And, obviously, new cards, nerfs, and buffs can change what the meta cycle looks like too.

Generally with deck building, there isn't much variation even at high levels. You'll still see zoolocks and miracle rogues that are basically the same ones you find on the internet. They may have a few curveballs here and there, but Hearthstone, IMO, only really rewards creativity in constructed at a "this is fun" level rather than a way to actually build viable decks. This is why when it comes down to it, Hearthstone is generally skill based. The pool of common decks and counters is pretty small, so it ends up being a game of who has the best execution of the maybe 10 or so canonical deck templates.

Last edited by Jragon; 11-12-2014 at 04:36 AM.
  #247  
Old 11-12-2014, 10:32 AM
Palooka Palooka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 2,519
Buying Naxx is definitely the most efficient use of real money in the game. If you want to give something back to Blizzard for the game, that's a great way to do it. If I had a fresh account, I wouldn't save up in-game gold for Naxx immediately. I'd craft the rares for a class or two first and some of the better neutral rares. Probably for Shaman since that's a nice well-rounded class.
  #248  
Old 11-12-2014, 12:58 PM
shijinn shijinn is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: waist deep in ink
Posts: 4,197
ya with the pricing, paying for Naxx with $$ is a good option. gold saved could then be used for Arena in next month's expansion instead, assuming the new cards would be better than the old ones...
  #249  
Old 11-12-2014, 07:44 PM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: No Gum Here
Posts: 2,950
I found this guide to be useful.

http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/...e_player_free/

This thread might be helpful in running down the different deck types and what they do.

http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/...ypes_of_decks/



If you've never played a CCG before, deck types will generally be classified as aggro (goes to the face, tries to burn an opponent down as fast as possible), control (prevents or otherwise deals with opponent's damage options until win condition can be performed), combo (uses a combination of cards as a big win condition), and midrange (middle of the road, gets maximum value for each card).

Miracle Rogue for example I would classify as a combo/control deck. Basically, Rogue has a lot of cheap removal spells and weapons, so you remove your opponent's minions before they can do too much damage to you. Combined with Gagetzan Auctioneer, your spells cycle your deck, so you can build your finishing combo. That combo used to be Leeroy + Shadowsteps + cold blood for a 26 damage burst, but after the nerfs people are starting to branch out, mainly between Malygos (for a spellpower win) or Violet Teacher (for a more minion based board control).

Knowing a deck is control helps you understand the deck's motivation, but not how it's played and its matchups, though. Warrior control, Paladin control and Priest control work very differently, although they focus on damage mitigation and big end game finishers. Well maybe not Paladin, that guy's finisher is "not dying before the other guy".
  #250  
Old 11-13-2014, 01:25 AM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 27,619
I had a guy today summon Kel'Thuzad, use two ancestral recall to clone him (or whatever the shaman kill and then re-summon card is) twice to give himself 3 kel'thuzads. Then he used some other "resummon when this minion dies" ability, then deliberately got one killed, which spawned two more - one from the effect, and another from the kel'thuzad resummon. 5 Kel'Thuzads in 2 turns.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:59 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017