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  #101  
Old 07-13-2015, 06:32 PM
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Except that "specialist" seems to mostly mean "interacts mostly with towers and minions". Well, that, or "so weird that we can't think of where else to put them", like Abathur and the Vikings.

But yeah, there isn't really a good place in this game for the "debuff enemy heroes" niche. Some heroes get some of that, but there doesn't seem to be anyone focused on it.
  #102  
Old 07-13-2015, 06:54 PM
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Roughly speaking, a "support" character is one whose primary job is to keep teammates alive. Tassadar is an off-healer, but he still fits squarely into the support category due to the combination of healing and shielding abilities.

Tassadar's biggest strength is also his biggest weakness. He's an incredibly versatile character who can fit a variety of roles, but other supports will outshine him in their focused areas.
  #103  
Old 07-13-2015, 07:39 PM
RandMcnally RandMcnally is offline
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Tassadar's biggest strength is also his biggest weakness. He's an incredibly versatile character who can fit a variety of roles, but other supports will outshine him in their focused areas.
What sucks about playing him in QM is while you have a barely healer, the other team, to keep balance, will get a Lili or something comparable.
  #104  
Old 07-13-2015, 11:02 PM
Jas09 Jas09 is offline
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I've been playing a bit - mainly the WoW hook pulled me in since I don't have nearly enough time to play that anymore.

Jagaya#1482 if you want to team up some time.
  #105  
Old 07-14-2015, 05:49 AM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
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Ok, so I'm trying to learn Sylvanas. I don't understand her.

How should I be playing her? She doesn't seem to do enough damage to really be a damage dealer, but I keep seeing guides that say that she's supposed to be some kind of pseudo assassin. Really? All I get to do is just Q a lot, W bunches of minions, and kinda do damage with E. I'm not really seeing a lot of damage, to be honest.
  #106  
Old 07-14-2015, 06:39 AM
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The thing with Syl is that she does damage very consistently and, combined with her stunning attacks, she can stay in the fight for a long time. Her Q is great for using when you're running away from a fight to get some extra damage on your pursuer and maybe make him turn around. She's also really solid when it comes to assaulting walls, because she can shut down both towers, or soloing some mercenary camps.

The E ability, that banshee wail thing, does strike me as pretty blah, but can be handy as a short range teleport.
  #107  
Old 07-14-2015, 07:25 AM
RandMcnally RandMcnally is offline
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E is mostly used to either catch someone running away, or for running away yourself.
  #108  
Old 07-14-2015, 07:24 PM
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My problem with the banshee teleportation has two parts to it. If I'm damaging someone with the banshees, then teleporting means landing right on top of them, which is not usually a place where a ranged character wants to be. On the other hand, if I'm not damaging someone with them, it feels like a waste. Why use a damaging spell if you're not damaging?

That said, I do like her. In fact, I've liked most of the specialists I've tried so far.
  #109  
Old 07-14-2015, 09:15 PM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
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New set of free heroes already.. good thing I got my specialist daily done.

This time, I think I want to learn ETC. Powersliding into a Mosh Pit feels SO GOOD oh yeah. Unfortunately, one time I got all 5 of my opponents... my own team had already ran. So they danced for a bit and then erased me.
  #110  
Old 07-14-2015, 10:30 PM
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I'm glad Sgt Hammer is on the free rotation - I've been thinking of buying her and this will give me a good window to decide whether I want to spend the gold or wait for the Monk to come out.
  #111  
Old 07-15-2015, 12:52 PM
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Played a game last night with Sgt Hammer and, oof, it did not go well. I don't think she fits my playstyle at all, but I'll give her at least enough shots to get her to level 5 before I give up altogether.
  #112  
Old 07-15-2015, 08:42 PM
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Hammer's sort of an odd one. Her basic attacks are pretty good, as long as you don't need to move much, but her abilities amount to a whole lot of nothing... At least, until and unless you reach 20, and win the game single-handedly.
  #113  
Old 07-16-2015, 02:12 AM
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Is the matchmaking any better for the hero league as far as producing decently balanced games? I'm getting tired of the randomness of quickmatch. I would say that it's not clear who's going to win after 5 minutes only in about 20% of games, in all other games it's pretty clear one team is way better than the other. So having 20% fun, balanced games is a pretty awful ratio. In comparison, in DOTA 2, I felt like I was put into fair matches 90% of the time even after like 20 hours of playing.

I have 6 or 7 heroes. I was wondering if I should just buy up a few 2000/4000 gold heroes to make it to 10, or if it's even worth bothering.
  #114  
Old 07-16-2015, 03:50 AM
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I'd settle for just getting games. I've been waiting 5min on average for a game, it sucks.
  #115  
Old 07-16-2015, 08:16 AM
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It does seem like Quick Match is slow. My (very small) sample size seems to indicate to me that if you're playing an Assassin or Warrior, it's slower because everyone wants to play those. If you're suitably masochistic that you want to play a Support, it's faster. But even so, 4 minutes seems to be about average for me.
  #116  
Old 07-16-2015, 09:43 AM
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The thing is, Quick Match isn't just trying to match you up with four other folks. It's trying to find a team for you and trying to find a similar team to put you up against. If it finds you a team without a support, it wants to give you an enemy team that also doesn't have a support. This leads to longer wait times.

Beef: Hero League is better because there's a non insubstantial barrier of entry. 10 heroes and level 25(?) ain't nothing, even if you drop a ton of money on boosters and heroes. The teams are also (generally) more balanced because it's draft format. Every now and then you get into that situation where somebody first-picks a character who is easily hard countered, or ignores team comp because they really want to play a particular character. But on the whole, Hero League matches are way more consistent. Protip: make sure you have two full warrior/healer/assassins that you're really comfortable with playing, because there will come a time when you're last pick on your team and you have to play a particular role if you want the team comp to be good. In these situations, it's almost a given that the other team has grabbed your first-pick option for that role.

It's also worth nothing: comebacks in HotS are way more doable than in Dota. Nothing can really be determined in the first 5 minutes of the game unless the problem is that your team is just plain bad.
  #117  
Old 07-16-2015, 10:59 AM
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Yay! I finally won an AI game all by myself. I don't know why though. Due to the rotation I was playing with a totally new character (Tychus) so I had no clue what I was doing.
It was on a new map. It seemed like my AI teammates were actually working together, which really helped. Each time the winged guardians showed up, my team managed to take out the opposing guardian first. Usually the AI teammates are really bad about map objectives, but this time (or at least this map) they would have my back.
  #118  
Old 07-16-2015, 11:25 AM
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It's also worth nothing: comebacks in HotS are way more doable than in Dota. Nothing can really be determined in the first 5 minutes of the game unless the problem is that your team is just plain bad.
Agreed. I never played DotA, but unless your team is just extremely outmatched (hasn't happened to me often) or your team just refuses to work together, the first few minutes don't mean all that much. I only play one or two games per night, and last night I was sure we were giving a valiant, but ultimately losing effort. Then at around level 15 or 16 we really started clicking and rolled our way to a victory.

Thanks to the people suggesting LiLi. I've been playing her exclusively lately and really enjoying it. Though it probably helps that I've won more matches than I've lost during that time.
  #119  
Old 07-17-2015, 04:12 PM
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I'm digging Reghar. Solid healing + instant mount + lightning shield for early laning. Good stuff. Plus, a well-timed (or luck) Ancestral Healing really changes the game.

The biggest problem is that, if you want to do any damage, you have to get into melee, which is where you don't want to be.

Last edited by GoodOmens; 07-17-2015 at 04:12 PM.
  #120  
Old 07-17-2015, 07:13 PM
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#Windfall1154, if anyone wants to play!
  #121  
Old 07-21-2015, 06:50 PM
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I've been looking forward to trying Nazeebo, and my first game was very enjoyable. Throwing around spiders and frogs and racking up siege damage is fun, and you're a great laner. The downside is lack of single-target damage and mobility, so dueling enemy heroes is a death sentence unless they get locked down by the zombie wall.

Still, frogs! And spiders! And poison!
  #122  
Old 07-21-2015, 06:54 PM
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Zombie wall is one of the most potent non-ultimate abilities in the game, but it can be tricky to use (and it can trap your teammates too)
  #123  
Old 07-21-2015, 08:14 PM
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Nazeebo's my favorite, enough so that I purchased him after his previous rotation. Though now that he's back on rotation, I feel sort of like I'm being cheated out of a hero.

The great thing about zombie wall is that it effectively roots, except it bypasses immunities to rooting and the like. And spiders can be good single-target damage, if they only have one target (like, for instance, if they're trapped inside a zombie wall with a hero).

You can also use zombie wall by "declaring yourself to be on the outside", casting it around yourself when there are melee enemies nearby, to keep them off of you.
  #124  
Old 07-21-2015, 09:14 PM
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Nothing in this free rotation really clicks with me.. I'll probably go Raynor, Muradin, and maybe I'll buy ETC. Really enjoyed him last rotation, and he just went off free rotation just as I hit level 4...
  #125  
Old 07-22-2015, 12:30 AM
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Zombie protip: pressing the button again will drop the wall early. Very important for when you miss and block your own teammates.
  #126  
Old 07-23-2015, 07:39 AM
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GottaPhoner#1967

I bought a Raynor because he seems easy but I am still trying to learn.
  #127  
Old 07-24-2015, 02:14 PM
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Okay, so Hero League is a vastly better game than quickmatch. In quickmatch, almost everyone I get paired with is absolutely awful. Like, most rudimentary mistakes awful. "Oh, you just saved me when I had 3% hp and I can keep running to escape. I guess I'll show my grattitude by turning around and running into 4 enemies" type stuff. The games never come down to which team is better, but by which team is least bad. And the matchmaking is pretty awful.

I feel like maybe 15-25% of games in this mode are balanced, interesting, and satisfying.

I've had 10 or 11 Hero League games and all but one were balanced and interesting. Players are at least competant, and the matchmaking seems good. I've played probably 80 quickmatch games and 11 Hero league games, but of my top 10 most interesting/fun games, Hero League probably makes up 7 or 8 of them. It's that different and that much better.
  #128  
Old 07-30-2015, 05:02 AM
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I just realised that I like the WOW characters way too much. I've bought Lili, ETC and Sylvanas now, and I still want to play Brightwing, Gazlowe, Muradin - ALL WOW! Especially Brightwing, do I really need 2 WOW Supports geeze. Also, Gazlowe. Also, Murky. Augh!

None of the other Supports tickle my fancy, though. But Brightwing, man, I feel like I really identify with Brightwing. She sounds exactly like my beloved Pyro, if s/he could actually talk.


I'm feeling like I'm understanding the game a lot more now, although I'm still pretty bad at map awareness and microing myself around, at least I know where to stand. I'm also using HOTSlogs, although I'm not sure how good exactly I am compared to everyone else. I can't help it, even though I'm a noob, I'm also so competitive that I want to know exactly how noob I am.
  #129  
Old 07-30-2015, 09:51 AM
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I'm really looking forward to the monk class, who's going to be a melee support. I play supports and warriors almost exclusively.

Lately I've been running Johanna whenever is appropriate for my team comp. She may not be able to put out the dps, but she definitely has the skills to pay the bills when it comes to tanking and disrupting.
  #130  
Old 07-30-2015, 06:07 PM
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I'm really looking forward to the monk class, who's going to be a melee support.
About time-- I was hoping that the Monk would be a support. As of right now, there's no Diablo support nor Starcraft warrior. Dehaka would probably fill the latter role, or possibly Fenix. If they wanted to be really daring, they'd use dragoon Fenix, not zealot Fenix, and make him a ranged warrior.
  #131  
Old 07-30-2015, 06:22 PM
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Maybe, but a zealot would be really awesome! I'd love to see a front-line protoss warrior rather than stealthy jumpy Zeratul.
  #132  
Old 07-30-2015, 08:47 PM
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What I want is a dedicated debuffer. With slows, blind, weaken, lifetap, all the annoying crap. I would be so on that.
  #133  
Old 07-30-2015, 09:18 PM
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That sounds like Eirena, the enchantress from Diablo III. Though it might be a while before they get to her: I imagine that they'd go through all of the playable characters and major bosses from Diablo II and III before they started getting into followers.
  #134  
Old 07-30-2015, 09:48 PM
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I'm not really hot on any of the Diablo characters, although I did never play D3. They all seem like stacks of HP and Damage numbers to me, completely uninteresting. Not even the bosses. Especially the bosses.

Although I must say that I'd be interested if I could play my Trapsassin again... but even if they did include Natalya or whatever, they'd probably make her the claw build with the annoying charges and everything.

Bah.
  #135  
Old 07-30-2015, 10:46 PM
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I'm not really hot on any of the Diablo characters, although I did never play D3. They all seem like stacks of HP and Damage numbers to me, completely uninteresting. Not even the bosses. Especially the bosses.
I feel the same way about all of them, with the exception of Johanna. And she doesn't interest me because she's a Diablo character; she interests me because she's a badass knight/tank with plate armor and a flail.
  #136  
Old 07-30-2015, 10:49 PM
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I was kinda interested in Johanna, on paper, with the blind and the slow and the reposition/stun, she seemed like she might be interesting to me.. but I tried her out in the store, and, not really. Maybe if she came on free rotation I might find that I liked her more.
  #137  
Old 07-31-2015, 12:05 AM
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No doubt. You can't really get a good feel for how characters work in the try mode. Got to get some matches in against real players. I'm waiting on Leoric for the same reason.
  #138  
Old 08-06-2015, 09:47 PM
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http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/...escom-8-5-2015

Blizzard has announced the next three heroes!

Kharazim the Monk: a melee support from diablo.
Rexxar the Hunter: a ranged warrior (!) from Warcraft. Runs around with his bear, Misha.
Artanis the Zealot: A hard-hitting melee warrior from Starcraft. Exactly what was on my wishlist!
  #139  
Old 10-20-2015, 12:20 AM
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Haven't had the chance to play in couple of months. How's the game going? Any big changes? Healthy player base?
  #140  
Old 10-20-2015, 02:00 AM
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Haven't had the chance to play in couple of months. How's the game going? Any big changes? Healthy player base?
I've been playing almost every night for a while now.. there's always changes in MOBAs, big changes would probably be the new heroes, new maps.
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  #141  
Old 10-20-2015, 02:08 AM
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Haven't had the chance to play in couple of months. How's the game going? Any big changes? Healthy player base?
New maps are a big change, and I like pretty much all of them, though the second Diablo one they added (the 3 lane one) is a tad snowbally.

There was a big patch when Kharazim came out, but since this game doesn't have items, you'll mostly notice a few heroes are picked more, a few picked less, and some talents have been removed or are better or worse. AFAIK, it didn't utterly make or break any hero or talent. Nobody's kit got overhauled or anything. I think the most notable (to me), is they removed Sprint from almost everyone that had it (especially the assassins).

Matchmaking is still pretty rocky where sometimes you just get "... whelp!" team comps.

The only other "big thing" is that if you preorder the SC2 expansion, you get Artanis a week early (tomorrow instead of the 27th).

(I really, really hope once they have enough maps they add a map veto system so I never have to do the fucking mines again).

Last edited by Jragon; 10-20-2015 at 02:09 AM.
  #142  
Old 10-20-2015, 02:44 AM
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I hate hollows more. I think that map is way too big. I used to hate mines, but now... meh. It'll be over soon, win or lose.
  #143  
Old 10-20-2015, 04:04 AM
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I hate hollows more. I think that map is way too big. I used to hate mines, but now... meh. It'll be over soon, win or lose.
I would veto both if I could. On Hollow, there are two big problems:

1. The first few tributes have this weird "if you win you lose" paradox, because if you wipe the enemy team, they can get back before you cap the tribute and wipe your now-low-health party. This should be fixed when they rework low level stat differences and death timers in the future.

2. The map is too big AND the tribute timers are too short. Once any team has any semblance of map control it's practically over. I'm not saying you can't come back, I've seen and even been on both ends of some heroic comebacks, but an early fort or two can really set you up for life on that map.

Last edited by Jragon; 10-20-2015 at 04:04 AM.
  #144  
Old 10-20-2015, 08:01 AM
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I've been playing consistently since my last post.

The biggest recent change was to Hero League matchmaking. You can only queue into Hero League in a group of 1, 2, or 5. If you're in a group of 3 or 4, you have to queue Quick Match.

The stated reason for this change was to prevent situations with wildly disparate rankings, such as when three seasoned friends queue with a less-experienced one, throwing things off for the fifth player to join the match.

The result is that I pretty much only play quick match now, because I often play with two friends. The splash screen now shows character portraits (which include levels or rankings if the player is displaying them) and I'm seeing a lot of disparity in team comps.

It's a shitty change IMO, but Hotslogs says I'm up into platinum rankings on quick match so that's pretty gratifying. Never got above silver in Hero League, though.

I bought the Medic almost as soon as she was released and I really like her. She is crazy fun when you're in voice communication with your whole team and your teammates can rely on timely heals. The medivac ult is also stupidly useful but, again, only when you've got good communication. She's also the most "pure" support character in the game, with anemic damage, extreme squishiness, and amazing healing. The problem is that certain assassins just completely wreck her if you don't have a warrior willing to peel when needed. I played a game where Butcher just wrecked me all game long.

On the other hand, I played a Battlefield of Eternity map last night where one of my buddies was Siege Tank, and if you haven't yet seen a stimmed up siege tank, let me just say that it's glorious to behold.

I predict that the Medic's first big patch will be a slight decrease to early game healing and a slight increase in early game HP.

Looking forward to Artanis - he seems like my kind of warrior. I currently have 11k gold, so I'll be able to buy him at the price drop if I can handle being patient enough. I thought about doing the Starcraft pre-order, but the game is forty bucks! For a glorified expansion! Screw that.

Last edited by Johnny Bravo; 10-20-2015 at 08:03 AM.
  #145  
Old 10-20-2015, 10:15 AM
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I was planning on getting Legacy of the Void anyway, so picking up Artanis free is just a nice bonus. I'm not terribly fond of warriors in general, but he's the last hero needed for a Quest Dozen, where you can work on any role quest simultaneously with any universe quest.

Johnny Bravo, just what exactly does the Medivac do? It waits around for ten seconds for heroes to load up, and then what? Does it fly everyone to some other spot on the map? Is it just a place to hide out for that time? Does it heal the heroes while they're inside?

Silvanas is now my favorite character, and is likely to remain so unless one of the ones I haven't had a chance to play yet really overwhelms me (why has Murky still never gone on rotation!?). I'm getting pretty good with her, too. My basic strategy with her is to stay the Hell away from other heroes, and to start fires faster than any single enemy hero can put them out: Push a lane for a while, take out an undefended fort, solo every merc camp on the map, maybe pick up a map gimmick here and there, etc. As soon as an enemy hero shows up, book it out of there, and go start another fire. The idea is that either more than one enemy hero works to put out my fires (in which case the rest of my team enjoys 4v3 fights), or they leave them unanswered (in which case forts fall).

Any guesses on what other heroes they'll eventually add, and whether they'll stop after the blank circles are all filled? Off the top of my head, we still have

Starcraft:
Tosh (ranged specialist?)
General Warfield (probably a warrior, with how hard he was to kill)
Dehaka (melee warrior)
Stukov (ranged specialist?)
Fenix (probably the ranged version, now that we have a zealot Artanis)
Narud (who knows? Maybe Legacy of the Void will flesh him out more)

Diablo:
D3 wizard (ranged assassin)
D2 amazon and assassin (both assassins)
Maybe the D2 barbarian, druid, necromancer, paladin, and sorcerer, though they might be too similar to other heroes
Belial (probably have to be a specialist, though he'd be tough to make work)
Magda (ranged assassin)
Zoltan Kulle (ranged assassin)
Izual (melee warrior)
Malthael (either warrior or assassin)
Urzael (ranged assassin)
Imperius (melee warrior)
Andariel (melee assassin)
Duriel (melee warrior)
Mephisto (ranged assassin)
Baal (specialist?)
Blood Raven (ranged assassin)
Eirena (ranged specialist)
Kormac (melee support)
Lyndon (ranged assassin)

Warcraft:
Cairne Bloodhoof (melee warrior)
Grom Hellscream (melee assassin)
Kel'Thuzad (assassin or specialist)
Any of the demons
The Prophet

Overwatch:
Unknown, but it looks like there are about 14 different heroes in the portrait.
  #146  
Old 10-20-2015, 10:47 AM
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Johnny Bravo, just what exactly does the Medivac do? It waits around for ten seconds for heroes to load up, and then what? Does it fly everyone to some other spot on the map? Is it just a place to hide out for that time? Does it heal the heroes while they're inside?
The level 20 upgrade heals everyone inside and nearby for a ton, but it's still not better than the Caduceus Reactor, which gives the medic insane mana regen AND a couple thousand shields. Hotslogs says it has a 74% pick rate across all levels of Hero League play, which means it's either going to get nerfed or the medivac will get buffed.

Anyway, the Medivac does have health, though I've yet to have anyone attack it. When you activate it, you pick a spot on the map (not unlimited range, but pretty dang huge). The Medivac drops down and you get a ridiculously awesome overlay. Bonus points if you start making "weee-oooo weee-oooo wee-ooo" noises into the mic.

Everyone loads up, and at any time after a short delay (four seconds, I think), you can jam the button to transport the team to the spot you picked. If you don't hit it, then it takes off automatically after the full 10. The other team does get a message along the lines of "the enemy team has called in a medivac."

The crazy thing is that the ability only has a cooldown of 50 seconds, and it starts when you first activate the ability. That means that by the time you unload your team at the location, you're often below a 40 second cooldown.

As you might imagine, this ability has enormous implications for a well-coordinated team. It can be used to hop objectives, to initiate teamfights from optimal locations, to jump from one minion camp to another, or even just to hop a top lane push down to the bottom lane.

On the other hand, once I mistimed the drop and unloaded the entire team right in the middle of a golem's stun radius on Cursed Mines. We were wiped within seconds in the resultant teamfight. Great power, great responsibility, etc.

Meanwhile, if your team doesn't want to get on board with your strategies (pun intended), you're better off just picking stimpack and giving it to your friendly neighborhood autoattacker.

Last edited by Johnny Bravo; 10-20-2015 at 10:49 AM.
  #147  
Old 10-20-2015, 10:56 AM
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Any guesses on what other heroes they'll eventually add, and whether they'll stop after the blank circles are all filled?
My understanding is that Fenix was actually supposed to be the next Starcraft hero, but they wanted him to have some kind of death ability to reflect his backstory. Since we already have a bunch of characters with death-related powers (Leoric, Diablo, Tyriel, Uther, Murky), they pushed him back for a while.

This is a list of heroes that have been hinted at by Blizzard, along with a "fan proposed" list. The latter is, as far as I can tell, just about every Blizzard character that has a proper noun attached to it.
  #148  
Old 10-20-2015, 11:20 AM
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Even though I'm terrible with them, I'm really hoping for more "weird" characters in the vein of Murky, Vikings, Abathur, and Sgt. Hammer. Characters like that are really breaking the mold for what MOBAs can do. I'm sure they're extraordinarily difficult to balance, but they keep the game interesting.

A buddy and I joke about an SCV character who doesn't take part in combat, but just runs around the map harvesting resources for experience points, building bunkers, etc.
  #149  
Old 10-20-2015, 12:53 PM
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Even though I know I couldn't possibly play Abathur or the Lost Vikings effectively, I love the fact that they exist. And I could totally see an SCV hero (Calldown MULE is my favorite talent), but Gazlowe pretty much already has that covered.

Quote:
This is a list of heroes that have been hinted at by Blizzard, along with a "fan proposed" list. The latter is, as far as I can tell, just about every Blizzard character that has a proper noun attached to it.
Yeah, I tried to keep my list a little more realistic (seriously, Kate Lockwell as a playable hero?), but I recognize that others' lists might look somewhat different. The one I absolutely insist on, though, is Warfield. Anyone who starts bayonetting hydralisks when he runs out of ammo, and then starts punching them out once he loses that, too, all while countermanding orders for retreat, damn well deserves a spot in the Nexus.
  #150  
Old 10-20-2015, 01:14 PM
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Since Artanis comes out on the same day that Overwatch goes into its first stages of beta, I'm thinking it makes a lot of sense if they release an Overwatch hero in the next cycle or two to drive interest in the game (they've already confirmed that they will be including a character or two from that IP). Judging by the cinematic trailer, those characters are all highly mobile so I expect an assassin of some kind.

I'm hoping that they let us know who the next three released characters will be, similar to the Rexxar/Medic/Artanis announcement back in August.
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