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  #151  
Old 12-05-2018, 01:17 PM
Barkis is Willin' Barkis is Willin' is offline
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I have little doubt the Yankees will sign one of the available pitchers, maybe Keuchel. They know what they need. Bryce Harper isn't it.
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:43 PM
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I have little doubt the Yankees will sign one of the available pitchers, maybe Keuchel. They know what they need. Bryce Harper isn't it.
I figure either Happ or Keuchel. I think they'll shy away from Eovaldi and Lynn just wasn't that impressive. Morton will be 36, I think they'll pass on him.

I know Happ is as old as Morton but has a really good track record in the AL East and especially against Boston except that awful start in the playoffs this year. He pitches well in Boston & The Bronx. He is a lefty of course. So if he is willing to take some sort of 2 year deal, I'm sure the Yanks will pay him.

I'm pretty sure they won't go over 5 years and $100m for Keuchel, might not be enough for a Boris client that will be 31 to 35 for the contract. Also a lefty but has not been good against Boston.
  #153  
Old 12-05-2018, 05:29 PM
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Paul Goldschmidt to the Cardinals, apparently.

D-Backs get righty Luke Weaver, catcher Carson Kelly, infielder Andrew Young and a 2019 Competitive Balance Round B Draft pick.
  #154  
Old 12-05-2018, 05:43 PM
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Paul Goldschmidt to the Cardinals, apparently.

D-Backs get righty Luke Weaver, catcher Carson Kelly, infielder Andrew Young and a 2019 Competitive Balance Round B Draft pick.
Looks like a very good deal for the Cards.
  #155  
Old 12-05-2018, 07:31 PM
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Good deal for the Cards and it gets Goldschmidt the hell out of our division. Win-win.
  #156  
Old 12-06-2018, 08:23 AM
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Harper isn't going to the Bronx, no, but only because he wouldn't actually improve that outfield. What, he's going to platoon with Stanton?
I guess Harper could play first base. I wouldn't put it past them to try, but the Yankees have been a little less dependent on the big free agent splash lately.
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  #157  
Old 12-06-2018, 09:30 AM
Barkis is Willin' Barkis is Willin' is offline
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Plus, I have to believe the Yankees know Harper isn't worth that money. Big money to Bryce Harper is something I'd expect from the Angels or maybe the Phillies.
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Old 12-06-2018, 09:35 AM
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Plus, I have to believe the Yankees know Harper isn't worth that money. Big money to Bryce Harper is something I'd expect from the Angels or maybe the Phillies.
Neither was Stanton nor SteiRod. Nor Ellsbury.
  #159  
Old 12-06-2018, 09:41 AM
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Plus, I have to believe the Yankees know Harper isn't worth that money. Big money to Bryce Harper is something I'd expect from the Angels or maybe the Phillies.
As a Yankee fan I have to hope the Yanks are "budgeting" for:
Buying out Judge's arbitration years and hopefully a few extra at least.
Luis Severino will have 3 more years of Arb after this year, maybe try and buy those out.
Gary Sanchez in about 2 years, they need to be ready to buy out his last 2 years of Arb, assuming his bat bounces back and by then they'll know if he is a catcher or first baseman. Also another reason not to bring Harper in.

Keep 1st base loose, avoid a big free agent as some combination of Stanton, Andujar or Sanchez might need to move to 1st. Though I think Stanton will just settle into left field.
  #160  
Old 12-06-2018, 09:48 AM
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Neither was Stanton nor SteiRod. Nor Ellsbury.
A-Roid was "The Boss", Ellsbury was stupid and Cashman's worst deal. He knows it too.

Stanton is not really that bad. He either opts out after 2020 or the Yanks get $30 million from the Marlins to pay down his contract a bit. So yes, the back end is still likely to be bad, but at 29, the Yanks have a fair chance of getting many productive years out of this contract. The Yanks can afford at least one bad contract at a time, so they'll survive it with no major problems.
  #161  
Old 12-06-2018, 09:53 AM
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Neither was Stanton nor SteiRod. Nor Ellsbury.
When NY signed Ellsbury, he was similar to Harper in that he was a couple years removed from an MVP caliber season. The difference is Ellsbury was coming off a very good year. Harper just had a rather mediocre year.
A-Rod won 2 MVP awards with the Yankees and put up a string of very good years.
Stanton just had an MVP year in 2017. I know Yankees fans are disappointed, but one could argue that Stanton had a better 2018 than Harper.
  #162  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:10 AM
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When NY signed Ellsbury, he was similar to Harper in that he was a couple years removed from an MVP caliber season. The difference is Ellsbury was coming off a very good year. Harper just had a rather mediocre year.
A-Rod won 2 MVP awards with the Yankees and put up a string of very good years.
Stanton just had an MVP year in 2017. I know Yankees fans are disappointed, but one could argue that Stanton had a better 2018 than Harper.
Problem with Ellsbury is he was a player whose biggest asset was his speed. A long high priced contract for a speed player is less likely to work out then one for a slugger. He was starting the contract at age 30. It also wasn't a position of need for the Yanks. It looked like an old fashion George "The Boss" move, steal the player from the Red Sox, "ha ha", but unlike A-Rod everything seems to point to Ells as being Cashman's folly.
  #163  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:42 AM
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Corbin to the Nats on a 6 year contract. I don't agree with this deal. He has already had one TJ procedure and his brilliance last season was predicated on an increase of the use of his slider. As an Angels fan I'm happy we didn't have a reunion with him. But please sign Keuchel.
I thought his might happen.

I am not unhappy with the deal. He seems to have recovered well from TJ surgery. I have not read that TJ surgery made you more susceptible to problems as long as you exercise reasonable caution. IMO, it gives the Nationals the best starting rotation in the NL. Certainly a contender in the NL East.

I also like the fact that it spends a bunch of money and signals less capacity to spend heavily on Harper which puts pressure on Boras.
It signals that the Nats will not be held hostage this winter to Boras's tactics (He would wait until February if the Nats let him).
If the Nats sign another large deal, it may mean the end for harper in DC if someone else thinks he is worth more than 300 and I don't know if the 300 deal is evens till on the table.

Last edited by Damuri Ajashi; 12-06-2018 at 10:44 AM.
  #164  
Old 12-06-2018, 11:28 AM
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Eovaldi re-signs with Boston, terms not yet announced. I like the idea of him being the new closer, which would be easier on his double-TJ elbow than starting.
  #165  
Old 12-06-2018, 12:06 PM
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Eovaldi: 4 years for $67.5m isn't too risky but a lot for a pitcher that has never had a good full season. Couple of surgeries already and tends to long pitch counts to get his outs. His stuff is electric, but I know I didn't want him as a starter.

As a closer, could be interesting. He can focus on just getting those 3 outs and with his stuff it might work out great.
  #166  
Old 12-06-2018, 01:09 PM
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I could see Boston re-signing Joe Kelly to be the closer, keeping Eovaldi a starter. No question he's getting paid based on a really good second half and an awesome postseason. Hope he can stay healthy.
  #167  
Old 12-06-2018, 02:56 PM
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Eovaldi: 4 years for $67.5m isn't too risky but a lot for a pitcher that has never had a good full season. Couple of surgeries already and tends to long pitch counts to get his outs. His stuff is electric, but I know I didn't want him as a starter.
Well, you did have the crystal ball back in February when you warned about the Red Sox making a grievous error by signing J.D. Martinez.
  #168  
Old 12-06-2018, 03:07 PM
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I could see Boston re-signing Joe Kelly
I'd kinda rather they didn't. He had a great Series, yes, but he's a much better bet to revert to the kind of Joe Kelly he's always been than to keep doing it.

Last edited by ElvisL1ves; 12-06-2018 at 03:08 PM.
  #169  
Old 12-06-2018, 04:54 PM
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I'd kinda rather they didn't. He had a great Series, yes, but he's a much better bet to revert to the kind of Joe Kelly he's always been than to keep doing it.
Would you rather keep Kimbrel? I wouldn't.
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Old 12-06-2018, 05:05 PM
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Well, the good thing about Kelly is he throws 100 mph.

The bad thing is, the shots they hit off him travel about 120 mph.
  #171  
Old 12-06-2018, 05:43 PM
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The other bad thing is when it goes 100mph way out of the strikezone. That was also an issue in the regular season.
  #172  
Old 12-06-2018, 05:51 PM
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Well, you did have the crystal ball back in February when you warned about the Red Sox making a grievous error by signing J.D. Martinez.
Well, I'll own up to being wrong, I'm sure the Red Sox fans won't even mind if the next 4 years of his contract he doesn't come close to this year. They've got the Rings.
  #173  
Old 12-07-2018, 08:25 AM
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Would you rather keep Kimbrel? I wouldn't.
I would. His September shakiness was due to tipping his pitches, not general deterioration, and he fixed that for October. He's as good as any closer in the game, so why wouldn't you want to keep him, unless Boras pushes it too hard? Hint to Boras: Nobody is gonna offer six years, but you can always ask.

Speaking of Boras, Dombrowski might sign Kelly anyway as a Kimbrel negotiating tactic, just to show willingness to move on.
  #174  
Old 12-07-2018, 09:13 AM
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I think Kelly could fill the closer role. He's the same age and Kimbrel, will probably cost less. Maybe if his role is more well defined he can settle into it. I wouldn't be heartbroken if they bring back Kimbrel, but it his postseason performance was a real downer.
  #175  
Old 12-07-2018, 09:33 AM
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Please, please, give Kimbrel a huge contract.
  #176  
Old 12-07-2018, 10:55 AM
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Ex-major league players Jose Castillo and Luis Valbuena have died in an automobile accident in Venezuela. Valbuena, who played for the Angels the last 2 seasons, was 33. Castillo was 37.

Last edited by Superdude; 12-07-2018 at 10:56 AM.
  #177  
Old 12-07-2018, 11:00 AM
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Ex-major league players Jose Castillo and Luis Valbuena have died in an automobile accident in Venezuela. Valbuena, who played for the Angels the last 2 seasons, was 33. Castillo was 37.
I just stumbled across that. Really bummed to hear that. Valbuena was playing for the Indians when I first became a fan, and I was fairly fond of the guy. Always rooted for him when I saw him playing. Man.

I'm probably just getting my years mixed up at this point, but it feels like we're losing one or two current or nearly-current MLB players every offseason.
  #178  
Old 12-07-2018, 11:10 AM
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Winter meetings start Monday, so I guess we'll be seeing all kinds of rumors and deals next week. A lot of noise about the Yankees making a trade with the Indians for Kluber or Bauer. Man, I hope they don't get Kluber.
  #179  
Old 12-07-2018, 03:23 PM
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Speaking of Boras, Dombrowski might sign Kelly anyway as a Kimbrel negotiating tactic, just to show willingness to move on.
I've always wondered if there's anyone who career earnings were screwed by Boras being, well, Boras.
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  #180  
Old 12-07-2018, 03:28 PM
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There are any number of guys who've turned down good offers from their existing teams to go into FA, only to find their market value wasn't nearly as much, despite what Boras (or other agents) told them.
  #181  
Old 12-07-2018, 04:22 PM
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I've always wondered if there's anyone who career earnings were screwed by Boras being, well, Boras.
There is at least one good example, Stephen Drew was convinced to hold out in 2014 and went from his $10m salary with the Sox to $5m with the Yanks. I think there are more examples, but that one I remember.
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Old 12-07-2018, 09:07 PM
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I just stumbled across that. Really bummed to hear that. Valbuena was playing for the Indians when I first became a fan, and I was fairly fond of the guy. Always rooted for him when I saw him playing. Man.

I'm probably just getting my years mixed up at this point, but it feels like we're losing one or two current or nearly-current MLB players every offseason.
Addendum to my post mentioning the accident. ESPN is now reporting that the crash was caused by bandits, who then robbed the former ball players.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2...rash-venezuela
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  #183  
Old 12-08-2018, 12:35 AM
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There is at least one good example, Stephen Drew was convinced to hold out in 2014 and went from his $10m salary with the Sox to $5m with the Yanks. I think there are more examples, but that one I remember.
That's not what happened, though. Drew refused a qualifying offer from Boston after the 2013 season and held out... and ended up signing with Boston, not New York, for a salary about equal to a pro rated qualifying offer. He was traded to New York later that season. It was the year AFTER that he took a $5 million deal, and I'm amazed he got that much because he hit .162 in 2014 so, hey, good on him even getting a contract at all.
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  #184  
Old 12-08-2018, 08:58 AM
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Well, I'll own up to being wrong, I'm sure the Red Sox fans won't even mind if the next 4 years of (Martinez's) contract he doesn't come close to this year. They've got the Rings.
J.D. has a good incentive to have another big year, seeing as his contract includes an opt-out provision after 2 years (allowing him to re-sign for more money with any club).
  #185  
Old 12-09-2018, 08:31 PM
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Looks like Harold Baines and Lee Smith have been elected to the Hall of Fame by the committee formerly known as the veterans' committee.

Good for them. I don't know that I'd have voted for Smith myself, but I get the reasoning. I have to say I'm surprised by the election of Baines.
  #186  
Old 12-09-2018, 08:50 PM
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Dreadful choices. Baines is a TERRIBLE choice. He was a good player for a long time but was never a great one, ever. There are at least two hundred players better than Harold Baines who aren't in the Hall of Fame.
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  #187  
Old 12-09-2018, 09:31 PM
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Dreadful choices. Baines is a TERRIBLE choice. He was a good player for a long time but was never a great one, ever. There are at least two hundred players better than Harold Baines who aren't in the Hall of Fame.
Baines is immediately in competition for worst Hall of Famer. Holy crap!

Lee is below border line but at least worthy of the conversation, Baines? Baines? What the hell?

BTW: his Hall of Fame Votes:
2007 BBWAA ( 5.3%)
2008 BBWAA ( 5.2%)
2009 BBWAA ( 5.9%)
2010 BBWAA ( 6.1%)
2011 BBWAA ( 4.8%)

Last edited by What Exit?; 12-09-2018 at 09:32 PM.
  #188  
Old 12-09-2018, 10:12 PM
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Baines' selection has to be good news for Fred McGriff.
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Old 12-10-2018, 10:07 AM
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Fred McGriff, sure. John Olerud, too. Obviously, Don Mattingly is a no-brainer now. Dale Murphy is overqualified, as is Dwight Evans. Bobby Abreu will be a shoo-in. Jose Bautista will be an easy choice, Tony Oliva should have been in ages ago, and get Dave Parker's plaque ready. Larry Walker, duh. What the hell is Gil Hodges waiting for? Norm Cash? Bill Freehan? We're putting in Adrian Gonzalez now, right?

That's why these selections really make the HOF debate less fun; Baines lowers the bar so far that the bar doesn't mean anything anymore, because if he is the standard, you have to put in Mark Teixeira, and even Mark Teixiera doesn't think he's a Hall of Famer but there's no logic in him being out and Baines being in. So you have to either

1. Argue that the standard is... something else, some Keltner List argument that applies only to some candidates but not "Committee" picks, or

2. Increase the size of the HOF from ~250 players to about a thousand.



I
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  #190  
Old 12-10-2018, 10:23 AM
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Great for Lee Smith! I've been championing his inclusion forever.
Harold Baines, on the other hand...wow. Wow. Even Baines himself did not expect to get into the HOF. I liked Baines as a kid, but there are soooo many better and more worthy players who haven't sniffed the HOF. What about...I don't know...Dwight Evans? Or Dale Murphy? Heck even Jack Clark or Chili Davis have at least as good a case as Baines.
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:42 PM
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As a Blue Jays fan I look forward to the inductions of Carlos Delgado, Dave Stieb, Tony Fernandez, and Jimmy Key, all better players than Harold Baines.
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:47 PM
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It's as if this committee of a dozen players who actually played with and against Baines, and managers who did similarly, had no idea how bad he really was, unlike some pseudonyms on a message board. Imagine that.
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:51 PM
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Only two people on the committee played against Baines. One - one of the same players - played with him.

If you know the two players I'm referring to, can you tell us if they voted for him?
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  #194  
Old 12-10-2018, 03:30 PM
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Only two people on the committee played against Baines. One - one of the same players - played with him.

If you know the two players I'm referring to, can you tell us if they voted for him?
Blyleven and Alomar (Alomar played with him in Baltimore). There are others with ties to Baines. La Russa managed him. Gillick was GM in Baltimore when Baines was there. Jerry Reinsdorf, obvious White Sox connection. And others who were NL contemporaries of Baines.

Baines got 12 of 16 votes, just sneaking in with the 75% minimum. Lee Smith was unanimous. Lou Pinella was just shy, with 11 votes. Don't know what anyone else on the ballot got. Can't believe Baines got more votes than Orel Hershiser, though.
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Old 12-10-2018, 04:41 PM
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Not too many Dodger owners on the committee. The problem with a small committee is that one person can have an outsized influence.

Given that professional baseball journalists never seriously considered Baines a candidate, this isn't an outsider/insider thing.

I've criticized HOF picks before but this is the least defensible one I can think of. Jack Morris? The guy won the World Series MVP once, maybe should have won it another time, too. He played for champions; Baines did not. Indeed, every other marginal choice I can think of has some argument in favor of them Baines doesn't:

- Champion (Morris, Tony Perez)
- Won a major individual award or two (Catfish, Jim Rice)
- Plays at an underrepresented position or pitching role (All relief pitchers, some catchers)
- Achieved some statistical milestones or records (Lou Brock)
- Was extremely highly regarded in his time, suggesting their contemporaries knew something we do not know (Rabbit Maranville)

Some guys of course have more than one. Lou Brock was not just a guy with some notable career numbers, he was also a two time WS champion AND played brilliantly in the World Series.

Harold has none of that. I feel bad for him, though, in that he's going to notice most of the baseball world is baffled by this.
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  #196  
Old 12-10-2018, 04:54 PM
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RickJay:

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Plays at an underrepresented position or pitching role (All relief pitchers, some catchers)
Well, he sort of fits into this category - he's the closest thing to a career DH that has yet been inducted into the Hall (sorry, Edgar), and at the time he retired, he held pretty much every DHing record, didn't he?

Let's leave aside the overall, general DH debate. DHs have existed in Major League Baseball for 45 years, like it or not, and no one genuinely representing the position is (until now) in the Hall of Fame. So the factor above is in play here, perhaps.
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Old 12-10-2018, 11:04 PM
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... he's the closest thing to a career DH that has yet been inducted into the Hall (sorry, Edgar), and at the time he retired, he held pretty much every DHing record, didn't he?
Frank Thomas played most of his career games at DH.
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  #198  
Old 12-11-2018, 12:51 AM
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I guess it's as simple as the 2,866 hits. It must have been the metric used by these voters because nothing else makes sense. He is 46th all-time. Among the Top 50, all are in the Hall, except:

Ineligible

Pete Rose

Not on the ballot yet

Derek Jeter
Adrian Beltre
Ichiro Suzuki
Albert Pujols
Alex Rodriguez

Still on the ballot

Barry Bonds
Omar Vizquel

Other

Rafael Palmeiro

So things are looking good for Johnny Damon (54th) and Vada Pinson (55th).
  #199  
Old 12-11-2018, 01:01 AM
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cmkeller cmkeller is offline
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RickJay:

Quote:
Frank Thomas played most of his career games at DH.
Why, so he did. I wonder why I think of him as a first baseman more than I think of Baines (or Hal McRae) as an outfielder? Perhaps because those two held DH-position records for a decent period of time, so I associate the position with them more than with Big Hurt.
  #200  
Old 12-11-2018, 06:00 AM
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Blank Slate Blank Slate is offline
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Percentage of Plate Appearances as DH:

Frank Thomas 57%

Harold Baines 60%

Edgar Martinez 72%

David Ortiz 88%
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