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  #51  
Old 01-06-2019, 03:56 PM
Hamlet Hamlet is offline
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Originally Posted by pulykamell View Post
I actually thought the calls were fine, and I hate the Ravens.
Overall, I agree. My comment was about the call on the field of a defensive touchdown that was overturned on appeal. And just to be clear, I dont think the refs actually wanted the Ravens to have a shot, anymore than I think the Chargers did too.
  #52  
Old 01-06-2019, 03:57 PM
jaycat jaycat is offline
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"Breaking the plane" is actually a simpler concept. Otherwise you could have a situation of where the runner's body is fully in or partially in the end zone, but the ball isn't. Also, there would still be the rule on catches - you have to have 2 feet inbounds in the end zone for the catch to count. It's simpler to just go by whether the plane was broken or not.
The ball and both feet have to be in the end zone. That's my proposed rule change. Let's cut out all this other bullshit.
  #53  
Old 01-06-2019, 03:58 PM
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He basically flat-out punted the ball to the Cowboys. A lot of people in the stadium were baffled.
Almost. The ball did touch the ground though so it was a drop kick.
  #54  
Old 01-06-2019, 03:58 PM
Velocity Velocity is offline
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Time to stick a fork in the Ravens; they're done.

Chargers-Chiefs AFC title game would be a real sight to behold.
  #55  
Old 01-06-2019, 04:22 PM
Hamlet Hamlet is offline
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Some serious Blake Bortles garbage time stats there for Lamar.
  #56  
Old 01-06-2019, 04:25 PM
Ulf the Unwashed Ulf the Unwashed is online now
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Thanks for the info about the kicker. Sounds...different. I like the idea of a dropkick.

Had the Seahawks won and the kicker not recovered quickly, would they have been allowed to replace him on the roster for a playoff game next week? Where would they have gotten a kicker from, if so? Is this like the emergency backup third-string goalie in the NHL hired from the ranks of whoever happens to be in town at the time?

Last edited by Ulf the Unwashed; 01-06-2019 at 04:26 PM.
  #57  
Old 01-06-2019, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Ulf the Unwashed View Post
Thanks for the info about the kicker. Sounds...different. I like the idea of a dropkick.

Had the Seahawks won and the kicker not recovered quickly, would they have been allowed to replace him on the roster for a playoff game next week? Where would they have gotten a kicker from, if so? Is this like the emergency backup third-string goalie in the NHL hired from the ranks of whoever happens to be in town at the time?
They probably would have put Janikowski on Injured Reserve, which means he's off the roster until next season but still on the team, and replaced him with one of the many free agent kickers who bounce from team to team as kickers get injured or fired for poor performance.
  #58  
Old 01-06-2019, 04:28 PM
pulykamell pulykamell is online now
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Overall, I agree. My comment was about the call on the field of a defensive touchdown that was overturned on appeal. And just to be clear, I dont think the refs actually wanted the Ravens to have a shot, anymore than I think the Chargers did too.
I actually wondered why that wasnít a fumble. He lost control of the ball going down, and when his knee hit, it didnít seem to me like he had possession of the ball. He had it in his hands very briefly, but to me it didnít look like control of the ball, but Iím always confused about how much control you need to exhibit for these things.
  #59  
Old 01-06-2019, 05:08 PM
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I actually wondered why that wasnít a fumble. He lost control of the ball going down, and when his knee hit, it didnít seem to me like he had possession of the ball. He had it in his hands very briefly, but to me it didnít look like control of the ball, but Iím always confused about how much control you need to exhibit for these things.
IIRC, it was his elbow, not his knee, that hit first, and, when that happened, he was automatically down. He had control of the ball when his elbow bit.

But damn, the Chargers should have won that in a runaway. Between Green's fumble, conservative play calling, and spotty defense in the 4th, they almost gave it away. Of course, LA fans deserve that.
  #60  
Old 01-06-2019, 05:21 PM
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Overall, I agree. My comment was about the call on the field of a defensive touchdown that was overturned on appeal. And just to be clear, I dont think the refs actually wanted the Ravens to have a shot, anymore than I think the Chargers did too.
Point(s) of order: If youíre talking about the Gordon ďfumbleĒ that Baltimore took all the way back, the call on the field was never a defensive touchdown. Whistles were blown and the play was dead before the Ravens player even got his hands on the ball. Also, it wasnít an appeal; since the call on the field was actually a Chargers TD, those are automatically reviewed (and here got reversed to Gordon called down before crossing the goal line).

(Sorry to be pedantic, but being pedantic is sort of my jam.)

I have no dog in the Chargers/Ravens fight. But I thought the previous play at the end of the third quarter, with the catch and the roll by the receiver, pretty clearly showed the ball breaking the plane before he was touched. And then I also thought the ball in Gordonís hands broke the plane before he was down. But my opinions were overruled twice by the top men in the NFL offices in New York.
  #61  
Old 01-06-2019, 05:50 PM
Hamlet Hamlet is offline
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Point(s) of order: If youíre talking about the Gordon ďfumbleĒ that Baltimore took all the way back, the call on the field was never a defensive touchdown. Whistles were blown and the play was dead before the Ravens player even got his hands on the ball. Also, it wasnít an appeal; since the call on the field was actually a Chargers TD, those are automatically reviewed (and here got reversed to Gordon called down before crossing the goal line).
Thanks for the info. I saw the ref say the ruling on the field was a TD, and I assumed.

This is a Bears game, alright. An awesome defense getting turnovers and saving an anemic offense from itself.
  #62  
Old 01-06-2019, 06:02 PM
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Eagles killing themselves with penalties, not being smart enough to recover a fumble, and dropping easy interceptions. Trubisky must have a horseshoe up his ass.

Bizarre ruling on the catch/fumble/no recovery.

Last edited by Hamlet; 01-06-2019 at 06:05 PM.
  #63  
Old 01-06-2019, 06:03 PM
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I have no dog in the Chargers/Ravens fight. But I thought the previous play at the end of the third quarter, with the catch and the roll by the receiver, pretty clearly showed the ball breaking the plane before he was touched. And then I also thought the ball in Gordonís hands broke the plane before he was down. But my opinions were overruled twice by the top men in the NFL offices in New York.
I thought the first play (the catch and roll) was clearly a TD on replay, and that the next play was clearly just short. They were both very close though. While that sequence was happening, I was thinking that it would be typical Chargers to have a TD incorrectly ruled out immediately followed by a hundred yard fumble return against them. When they actually ended up with a TD on fourth down, I started to think that they really might be different than the Chargers of old. Luckily the last 6 minutes of the game reminded me of who they are .

Theyíll have a chance against anyone, although winning in New England will be tough. The prospect of the Chargers hosting the AFC championship still exists!
  #64  
Old 01-06-2019, 06:07 PM
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Eagles killing themselves with penalties, not being smart enough to recover a fumble, and dropping easy interceptions. Trubisky must have a horseshoe up his ass.

Bizarre ruling on the catch/fumble/no recovery.
Rules guru on the broadcast says the officials didn't know what to do and just made it up on the spot.
  #65  
Old 01-06-2019, 06:25 PM
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The official ran up and signaled incomplete while the ball was still rolling, then picked it up. Based on that, treating it as incomplete, no matter what else happened, was the closest to the correct call, I suppose.
  #66  
Old 01-06-2019, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong View Post
Rules guru on the broadcast says the officials didn't know what to do and just made it up on the spot.
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Originally Posted by DCnDC View Post
The official ran up and signaled incomplete while the ball was still rolling, then picked it up. Based on that, treating it as incomplete, no matter what else happened, was the closest to the correct call, I suppose.

Or would it have been possible to call it a "no play" and give them the down back? What just is the rule when an official interferes by accident in fair play?

No matter what I know that the call is going to be a major subject of discussion tomorrow at the league offices.
  #67  
Old 01-06-2019, 07:07 PM
Snarky_Kong Snarky_Kong is offline
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The official ran up and signaled incomplete while the ball was still rolling, then picked it up. Based on that, treating it as incomplete, no matter what else happened, was the closest to the correct call, I suppose.
I can't agree with this. It's literally the opposite of what happened. Incomplete vs complete.

Probably replaying the down is the most fair.

What would they do if an official slapped down a pass or tackled a player?
  #68  
Old 01-06-2019, 07:29 PM
pulykamell pulykamell is online now
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Bizarre ruling on the catch/fumble/no recovery.
Oddly enough, my brother and I were discussing this exact situation watching some NFL game in the past few weeks for some reason wondering what in the hell happens in such a case. (Must of been something similar that happened in the game, but not quite.) I guess now we know. Or do we?

As a Bears fan, I did think it would have been a little cheap if the Bears got the ball at the spot of the catch and fumble. I mean, the play was ruled dead, and clearly the Eagles would have picked it up if it weren't. But calling the blown call against the Bears (by wasting the down and ruling it an incomplete) also seems a bit cheap to me. Replaying the down as if it never happened seems the fairest outcome, but does it happen? And what would have happened if a Bear picked up the ball? The play was whistled dead, right?
  #69  
Old 01-06-2019, 07:50 PM
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Wow that was a clunker of an ending for the Bears.
  #70  
Old 01-06-2019, 07:51 PM
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I was wrong. It wasn't boring.
  #71  
Old 01-06-2019, 07:51 PM
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The Bears had better fire that kicker tonight.
  #72  
Old 01-06-2019, 07:52 PM
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Wow...what a way for Chicago's season to end.
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  #73  
Old 01-06-2019, 07:54 PM
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+2 in turnovers, but a loss. Rough go for Bears fans.

Imagine this Bears team with Mahommes. Oofa.
  #74  
Old 01-06-2019, 07:55 PM
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That's gotta hurt in the balls.
  #75  
Old 01-06-2019, 07:57 PM
pulykamell pulykamell is online now
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The Bears had better fire that kicker tonight.
I was telling my wife, "Chicago will forgive you if you make this." Whelp.

I mean, how sick was that? Not only did it hit the uprights, but it also his the crossbar, and managed to bounce out instead of in! Anybody following the Bears could see this as a fitting end. In November, Parkey hit the uprights FOUR TIMES in a game (two on PATs, two on FG attempts.) Somehow, this ending makes sense.

Ugh.
  #76  
Old 01-06-2019, 07:57 PM
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That's gotta hurt in the balls.
My sister (no balls) is a huge Bears fan. It's tough.
  #77  
Old 01-06-2019, 07:59 PM
Dale Sams Dale Sams is offline
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Little injury trivia: If the Seattle kicker had pulled his quad (rather than a hammy) doing that FG attempt....? His career as a long range-kicker is pretty much over. At least trying to hit anything that far out. Cause it means he can no longer go out there and try and kick a ball as hard as he can. He can only "Kick as hard as he can without pulling a muscle."
  #78  
Old 01-06-2019, 08:01 PM
Dale Sams Dale Sams is offline
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Originally Posted by pulykamell View Post
Oddly enough, my brother and I were discussing this exact situation watching some NFL game in the past few weeks for some reason wondering what in the hell happens in such a case. (Must of been something similar that happened in the game, but not quite.) I guess now we know. Or do we?

As a Bears fan, I did think it would have been a little cheap if the Bears got the ball at the spot of the catch and fumble. I mean, the play was ruled dead, and clearly the Eagles would have picked it up if it weren't. But calling the blown call against the Bears (by wasting the down and ruling it an incomplete) also seems a bit cheap to me. Replaying the down as if it never happened seems the fairest outcome, but does it happen? And what would have happened if a Bear picked up the ball? The play was whistled dead, right?
I didn't even know til last night that you can dropkick a kickoff.

So can you do a kickoff without a stand? If i stand right over the ball, put my foot under it and lob it 10 yards, can they call a fair catch even if the ball started on the ground? Cause I could turn just about any kick into a 10 yard jump ball that way.
  #79  
Old 01-06-2019, 08:08 PM
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Parkey must hold the record for most kicks hitting the upright in a season.


What a wild card weekend. Three of the four games were within one score or less. Cowboys by 2, Chargers by 6, Eagles by 1.

Furthermore, the visiting team won three out of those four games.
  #80  
Old 01-06-2019, 08:10 PM
Velocity Velocity is offline
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I can't agree with this. It's literally the opposite of what happened. Incomplete vs complete.

Probably replaying the down is the most fair.

What would they do if an official slapped down a pass or tackled a player?
Assuming you mean as an intentional act, my guess is, the play would stand, but the official would promptly be ejected by his fellow officials and fired ASAP by the NFL. If it's the head referee himself who does those shenanigans, though.......welp. I guess his assistants would mutiny and someone would get promoted to be the new ref on the spot?


But if it's unintentional, then the refs/officials are considered "part of the field" and it's just considered unfortunate. The pass is incomplete and the runner is down by contact (if someone from the opposing defense swoops by to touch him while he's down.)
  #81  
Old 01-06-2019, 08:34 PM
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I didn't even know til last night that you can dropkick a kickoff.

So can you do a kickoff without a stand? If i stand right over the ball, put my foot under it and lob it 10 yards, can they call a fair catch even if the ball started on the ground? Cause I could turn just about any kick into a 10 yard jump ball that way.
Dickson has done it a handful of times over the season with mixed results. Itís much less predictable which is why itís not something you want to do all the time.

And itís not a drop kick like a punt (you kick as youíre dropping it). It has to bounce off the ground first. You drop it, let it hit the ground, then kick it as itís bouncing back up. You can even kick a field goal that way, but again itís very unpredictable.
  #82  
Old 01-06-2019, 08:55 PM
OldGuy OldGuy is offline
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I didn't even know til last night that you can dropkick a kickoff.

So can you do a kickoff without a stand? If i stand right over the ball, put my foot under it and lob it 10 yards, can they call a fair catch even if the ball started on the ground? Cause I could turn just about any kick into a 10 yard jump ball that way.
Yes the receiving team can call for a fair catch on a kickoff kick. But they can only do so if the ball is in flight. Once the ball has touched the ground, you can't 'fair catch' it. That is why onside kicks are kicked so the bounce immediately. And touching the ground when it's on the tee or here in the drop kick doesn't count. It must touch the ground after the kick.
  #83  
Old 01-06-2019, 08:58 PM
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https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules...viewable-plays

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If an on-field ruling of a dead ball (down by contact, out of bounds, or incomplete forward pass) is changed, the ball belongs to the recovering player at the spot of the recovery, and any advance is nullified. The recovery must occur in the continuing action following the loss of possession. If the ball goes out of bounds in an end zone, the result of the play will be either a touchback or a safety. If the Referee does not have clear and obvious visual evidence as to which player recovered the loose ball, or that the ball went out of bounds, the ruling on the field will stand.
I think they didn't have much of a choice based on the rules as written.
  #84  
Old 01-06-2019, 09:05 PM
kopek kopek is offline
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Wow that was a clunker of an ending for the Bears.
Actually, from the replay, a double-clunker.
  #85  
Old 01-06-2019, 10:29 PM
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My BOYS haven't won a road playoff game since...1992/3. The 1992/3 NFC Championship game against San Francisco...that was the last road win (Super Bowls don't count).
  #86  
Old 01-06-2019, 10:45 PM
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Wouldn't it have been best to just place the ball on the tee and have the Seahawks punter kick it onside like a kicker would have? Even if un-trained for that, probably would have worked better for Seattle than what they ended up doing.
  #87  
Old 01-06-2019, 11:06 PM
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Wouldn't it have been best to just place the ball on the tee and have the Seahawks punter kick it onside like a kicker would have? Even if un-trained for that, probably would have worked better for Seattle than what they ended up doing.
Possibly, but my guess would be that Dickson has practiced an onside kick from a tee even less than he has a dropkick.

Due to the new rules about how kickoff coverage teams can line up, and that they can't have a running start, onside kickoffs are even more difficult to convert, even with a kicker who's been practicing them -- I heard a stat during the game yesterday that, before the rule change, onside kicks were converted at about 20%, and they're now under 10%.
  #88  
Old 01-06-2019, 11:26 PM
DSYoungEsq DSYoungEsq is offline
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Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong View Post
Rules guru on the broadcast says the officials didn't know what to do and just made it up on the spot.
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Originally Posted by DCnDC View Post
The official ran up and signaled incomplete while the ball was still rolling, then picked it up. Based on that, treating it as incomplete, no matter what else happened, was the closest to the correct call, I suppose.
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Originally Posted by kopek View Post
Or would it have been possible to call it a "no play" and give them the down back? What just is the rule when an official interferes by accident in fair play?

No matter what I know that the call is going to be a major subject of discussion tomorrow at the league offices.
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Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong View Post
I can't agree with this. It's literally the opposite of what happened. Incomplete vs complete.

Probably replaying the down is the most fair.

What would they do if an official slapped down a pass or tackled a player?
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Originally Posted by pulykamell View Post
Oddly enough, my brother and I were discussing this exact situation watching some NFL game in the past few weeks for some reason wondering what in the hell happens in such a case. (Must of been something similar that happened in the game, but not quite.) I guess now we know. Or do we?

As a Bears fan, I did think it would have been a little cheap if the Bears got the ball at the spot of the catch and fumble. I mean, the play was ruled dead, and clearly the Eagles would have picked it up if it weren't. But calling the blown call against the Bears (by wasting the down and ruling it an incomplete) also seems a bit cheap to me. Replaying the down as if it never happened seems the fairest outcome, but does it happen? And what would have happened if a Bear picked up the ball? The play was whistled dead, right?
The League has confirmed that the referees got it right on review. On review of a called incomplete pass where the other option is a catch followed by a fumble, the call of incomplete can only be overturned if there was a clear recovery of the "fumble." If not, the play must stand as incomplete.
  #89  
Old 01-06-2019, 11:34 PM
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My BOYS haven't won a road playoff game since...1992/3. The 1992/3 NFC Championship game against San Francisco...that was the last road win (Super Bowls don't count).
Your Boys are going to be handled next week like altar boys in a room full of drunk priests.
  #90  
Old 01-06-2019, 11:38 PM
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Your Boys are going to be handled next week like altar boys in a room full of drunk priests.
I think it'll be a lot more evenly matched than that. Rams have the NFL's worst rushing defense, allowing five yards per carry. I could see Ezekiel Elliott running for 150 yards on the Rams, maybe even 180.
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:03 AM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is offline
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Parkey's kick was tipped.
  #92  
Old 01-07-2019, 02:37 AM
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Can someone explain to me (non-Eagles fan) why Foles isn't the entrenched starting QB? Is it simply that Wentz is more highly paid, and conventional wisdom dictates that the highly-paid guy must start? Because it seems that Foles has quite demonstrably shown that he is better than Wentz, and has the "it factor" that Wentz lacks.
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Old 01-07-2019, 03:52 AM
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Eeeeeeee is for Eagles...

BOO-Yeah! Watch us be the first team to win all playoff games by missed field goals. We're up for anything new.

Saints are too weak from that bye week. (I hope)
  #94  
Old 01-07-2019, 03:54 AM
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Can someone explain to me (non-Eagles fan) why Foles isn't the entrenched starting QB? Is it simply that Wentz is more highly paid, and conventional wisdom dictates that the highly-paid guy must start? Because it seems that Foles has quite demonstrably shown that he is better than Wentz, and has the "it factor" that Wentz lacks.
Wentz is currently listed as injured. Not expected to return this season.
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Old 01-07-2019, 07:45 AM
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Can someone explain to me (non-Eagles fan) why Foles isn't the entrenched starting QB?
Wentz is the better/younger/more upside QB.
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Originally Posted by Velocity
Is it simply that Wentz is more highly paid, and conventional wisdom dictates that the highly-paid guy must start? Because it seems that Foles has quite demonstrably shown that he is better than Wentz, and has the "it factor" that Wentz lacks.
I'm curious why, after a game where he threw two interceptions and had a woeful 77.7 passer rating, you would say that Foles has "demonstrably shown" that he is better than Wentz. Foles, like most average NFL QBs, has had very good games (last years' playoff run), and very bad games (his final two starts before the playoffs last year), and a big chunk of "Meh" games (most of his career before last years' playoff run). He just so happened to have his very good games at very opportune times, ala Joe Flacco or Eli Manning. But overall, he has not "demonstrably shown" he's better than Wentz.
  #96  
Old 01-07-2019, 09:38 AM
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At my wife's urging, I watched my first moments of NFL this year - the final 1.25 qtrs of the Bears game.

What made that missed FG especially stunning was that he had striped it moments earlier, when the Eagles called a TO just before the snap.

I don't miss having my emotions tied to some athletes' performance.
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:46 AM
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Wentz is the better/younger/more upside QB. I'm curious why, after a game where he threw two interceptions and had a woeful 77.7 passer rating, you would say that Foles has "demonstrably shown" that he is better than Wentz. Foles, like most average NFL QBs, has had very good games (last years' playoff run), and very bad games (his final two starts before the playoffs last year), and a big chunk of "Meh" games (most of his career before last years' playoff run). He just so happened to have his very good games at very opportune times, ala Joe Flacco or Eli Manning. But overall, he has not "demonstrably shown" he's better than Wentz.
Yeah, but it's going to odd if the Eagles win again and release him/let him go to free-agency. That's going to be a bar trivia question in about 10 years: What QB won two Super Bowls and was released the next year by his team?
  #98  
Old 01-07-2019, 09:54 AM
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Atamasama Atamasama is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
At my wife's urging, I watched my first moments of NFL this year - the final 1.25 qtrs of the Bears game.

What made that missed FG especially stunning was that he had striped it moments earlier, when the Eagles called a TO just before the snap.

I don't miss having my emotions tied to some athletes' performance.
Iím sure thatís not coincidental. I see it often in games where a kicker lines up and kicks as the timeout is called, and makes the field goal, then has to kick again and misses. A kicker spends time doing practice kicks and getting mentally and physically prepared for the kick on the sideline before itís his chance to make the attempt, and you can see heís ready on the first kick because he made it (though it didnít count). Having to kick again ruins his preparation, and he misses.

Thereís even a term for it, ďicing the kickerĒ, and thatís precisely why Philadelphia spent their last time out to do it. It doesnít always work but it often does. And Parkey is not the leagueís best kicker anyway.

I know thereís evidence that the kick was tipped so it might not be his fault, but sometimes the timing or the way the ball is kicked can make it easier for a defender to get a hand on it, so that doesnít necessarily absolve him of all blame.
  #99  
Old 01-07-2019, 10:35 AM
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Doyle Doyle is offline
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Saints have been installed as a 9 point favorite. Geaux Saints!
  #100  
Old 01-07-2019, 10:39 AM
Velocity Velocity is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
At my wife's urging, I watched my first moments of NFL this year - the final 1.25 qtrs of the Bears game.

What made that missed FG especially stunning was that he had striped it moments earlier, when the Eagles called a TO just before the snap.

I don't miss having my emotions tied to some athletes' performance.
Icing the kicker has been a thing for well over a decade. There's even an instance of a coach accidentally icing his own kicker. Cowboys coach Jason Garrett called timeout in 2011 just before Cowboys kicker Dan Bailey nailed a would-be game-winner against the Cardinals. Bailey then had to kick a 2nd time, and missed.
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