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  #12251  
Old 12-10-2019, 03:49 PM
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How did Trump cheat in the 2016 election?
You've heard of the Mueller Report, right?
  #12252  
Old 12-10-2019, 04:03 PM
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How did Trump cheat in the 2016 election?
Brazenly.
  #12253  
Old 12-10-2019, 04:37 PM
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To be entirely fair, "cheat" is probably a slightly inaccurate word. After all, cheating isn't a crime.
  #12254  
Old 12-10-2019, 04:50 PM
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To be entirely fair, "cheat" is probably a slightly inaccurate word. After all, cheating isn't a crime.
So, Trump won criminally in 2016?
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  #12255  
Old 12-10-2019, 05:06 PM
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So, Trump won criminally in 2016?
Based on the preponderance of evidence, yep! Were we officially at war at the moment it would officially be treason. The war is cold right now though (so cold we're numb to it), so we can only call it by its unofficial term: impeachable.

Last edited by begbert2; 12-10-2019 at 05:06 PM. Reason: typo
  #12256  
Old 12-11-2019, 03:39 AM
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Here's the OIG review of the foundation of the Trump investigation (focusing, largely, on Carter Page as I understand it):

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...ml#document/p1
I haven't read quite everything, but there isn't much about Mueller or his investigation. I guess that we'll have to wait for more of the documents to be released from his crew.

We did get a first official evaluation of Steele, from the vantage of people who actually have some ability to say something about it.

Regrettably, there's no easy summation and I feel like each reader would come to a different conclusion, from their read of what is offered.

My take would be that Steele is fighting for good but, ultimately, is very sloppy in his approach. In his view, any information, no matter how poorly sourced, is worth writing down and handing out. And, one could say, that's fair. He basically says that he's doing nothing more than collecting and sharing gossip and that is, pretty literally, what he does.

If that were the end of his sloppiness, one might not fault him too terribly. But, one might note other varieties of sloppiness:

1) He can't seem to keep track of what reports he's given to whom.
2) He's never really sure what contractual obligations he has to any particular customer.
3) He doesn't even perform enough analysis of what he's told to catch even basic errors like whether or not Russia has a consulate in Florida.
4) He commentates within his reports, with no clear delineation of which thoughts are his own and which came from his source.
5) Likewise, he can't even seem to figure out how to use a spellcheck nor come up with a system for numbering his reports that doesn't seem arbitrary.

Personal guess: Major pothead. His habits seem reminiscent of a number of people that I've worked with who are "extra disorganized" yet very nice and friendly.

Horowitz does list a particularly large set of reports as being from a single source who we know was lying. Horowitz also has some revelations from Steele blacked out - intimating that there may have been some hits among the mass. He also has a footnote saying that he was only ever provided with a partial spreadsheet of the results of the FBI corroboration results as some part of it is too tightly secret. It's likely that there are some things in the Steele dossier of genuine value. My gut feeling is that it was probably somewhere in the 30-40% range, not the 80% that Steele envisioned.

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Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
I'm guessing that's a reaction to six consecutive posts by you, although it's odd to be triggered by the one a week after the first cluster.
I was expecting others to post. Maybe, usually they would have but the holidays were distracting them?

At any rate, it's fair to say that what I wrote is a wee bit shorter than the hundreds of pages of reading that I was summarizing.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 12-11-2019 at 03:42 AM.
  #12257  
Old 12-11-2019, 07:58 AM
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You've heard of the Mueller Report, right?
The Washington Post has put out an illustrated version thatís much easier to read than the original. I highly recommend it

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...d/chapter-one/
  #12258  
Old 02-08-2020, 11:50 PM
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You need help or something.
Do I need help or something?

What say you now?

"Chill, Mueller's got this."

"Chill, impeachments got this."

"Relax, our sacred Constitution's got this."

No, it doesn't.

I said, "You will see."

Now, you have seen.
  #12259  
Old 02-09-2020, 12:08 AM
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You are full of shit. Stop being full of shit. You clearly have no idea how the executive branch of the federal government functions, nor the protections in place for rank-and-file federal employees. There are probably about two million competitive service employees at this point who Trump would like to fire, but none of them have been.

Trump and his administration may not have any particular respect for the rule of law, but the courts and administrative apparatus of federal institutions still do, as can be easily seen by the repeated difficulties which Trump has faced implementing his extralegal domestic agenda.

Your incessant chicken-little, sky-is-falling bullshit is tiresome, unnecessary and unsupported by any rational analysis of the facts conducted by people with a solid grasp on reality. Knock it off and calm down.
Let's talk about this now. In 2020.

How do you feel now, smartass?
  #12260  
Old 02-10-2020, 11:07 AM
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In a similar vein...

When I started the Clusterfuck thread right after the election, many Dopers said I was overreacting, give him a chance, he'll come around, he can't take over the whole Executive Branch, his Cabinet will keep him in line, blahblahblah. Some said I should be banned for going overboard in my criticism. Yeah, right.
  #12261  
Old 02-10-2020, 11:27 AM
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In a similar vein...

When I started the Clusterfuck thread right after the election, many Dopers said I was overreacting, give him a chance, he'll come around, he can't take over the whole Executive Branch, his Cabinet will keep him in line, blahblahblah. Some said I should be banned for going overboard in my criticism. Yeah, right.
When you started the Clusterfuck thread, it was in response to the fact that people, including passionate Trump haters, were fed the fuck up with the obnoxious volume of new threads you were starting, not because of you were overreacting.
  #12262  
Old 02-10-2020, 12:19 PM
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Gee, given how many trump threads there are now, that no longer seems to be considered a problem.
  #12263  
Old 02-10-2020, 12:25 PM
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Gee, given how many trump threads there are now, that no longer seems to be considered a problem.
Gee, it would be if they were all started within a 48-hour period by the same person.
  #12264  
Old 02-10-2020, 01:43 PM
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Gee, it would be if they were all started within a 48-hour period by the same person.
Who cares? ThelmaLou and asahi had it right from the very beginning.
  #12265  
Old 02-10-2020, 01:56 PM
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Who cares? ThelmaLou and asahi had it right from the very beginning.
Now you've done it.
  #12266  
Old 02-10-2020, 02:10 PM
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Oh goody

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/mee...esday-n1032266

Mueller is going to testify again on Wednesday. I’m sure he’ll just twist himself into a spineless pretzel again, trying desperately to avoid saying that Trump did anything wrong.

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think he rigged the investigation. I don’t think he’s in the bag for Trump. My problem is not with his handling and the conclusions of the investigation.

But his silence has pissed me off mightily in the months since the report was released. His listened to his primary conclusions, the ones that had nothing to do with Trump, get trashed. He’s listened while the Republicans have made Ukraine the villain. He’s listened to the Republican theory that the Manafort case was a hoax. He’s listened as the DOJ has threatened the investigators. I’m sure he was listening today as Trump broadly announced that Christopher Wray called the whole investigation a hoax. He’s been silent throughout the DOJ attempts to indict McCabe and Comey.

I’m sorry, he needs to grow a pair and speak up. I have a slim hope that maybe he will this time. I’m sure it will be dashed, though

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 02-10-2020 at 02:11 PM.
  #12267  
Old 02-10-2020, 03:17 PM
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That news story was from July.
  #12268  
Old 02-10-2020, 03:26 PM
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Well, jeez, what's he waiting for?
  #12269  
Old 02-10-2020, 03:30 PM
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Sorry. I was trying to track the story behind this story - Wrays recent testimony - and I can’t find it, I guess

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/02/tru...no-golf-today/

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 02-10-2020 at 03:30 PM.
  #12270  
Old 02-11-2020, 10:41 PM
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If I am glad for one thing (the one thing that is my main weapon again the Elmer Disciples like asahi), it's that almost everyone involved in this total and complete bumfuck is a total and complete idiot, pretty much without exception. IOW, I am glad that we didn't get someone who actually knows what they are doing (when they try to screw over the rest of the country).
LOL.

How ya feelin' now, big boy?

And for those who ask why I'm digging up old threads, I wasn't the one who started calling other posters out, calling them crazy, paranoid, delusional, chicken little or whatever. What I wrote about was out of a very real concern that America's institutions wouldn't be able to withstand what Trump and the GOP were doing to them.

As I said many times before, this things take time, and you will see.

Do you understand now?
  #12271  
Old 02-12-2020, 05:08 AM
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Do you think this is helping?
  #12272  
Old 02-12-2020, 09:23 AM
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Do you think this is helping?
I'm not sure "helping" is his brand.
  #12273  
Old 02-12-2020, 10:04 AM
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LOL.

How ya feelin' now, big boy?

And for those who ask why I'm digging up old threads, I wasn't the one who started calling other posters out, calling them crazy, paranoid, delusional, chicken little or whatever. What I wrote about was out of a very real concern that America's institutions wouldn't be able to withstand what Trump and the GOP were doing to them.

As I said many times before, this things take time, and you will see.

Do you understand now?
Nobody likes an "I told you so" asshole.
That's why you don't have any friends. You might want to think about it.
  #12274  
Old 02-12-2020, 10:23 AM
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In a similar vein...

When I started the Clusterfuck thread right after the election, many Dopers said I was overreacting, give him a chance, he'll come around, he can't take over the whole Executive Branch, his Cabinet will keep him in line, blahblahblah. Some said I should be banned for going overboard in my criticism. Yeah, right.
You were right. But, to any asshole who isn't brain dead, it was fucking obvious from the beginning. He asked for Russian help RIGHT OUT IN THE OPEN AND GOT IT. And then soon as he could, he blabbed Israeli secrets to Russia and then sold us out at Helsinki. And that was JUST the beginning.
  #12275  
Old 02-12-2020, 10:24 AM
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Who cares? ThelmaLou and asahi had it right from the very beginning.
This. This. This. They were RIGHT.
  #12276  
Old 02-12-2020, 10:26 AM
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Oh goody

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/mee...esday-n1032266

Mueller is going to testify again on Wednesday. Iím sure heíll just twist himself into a spineless pretzel again, trying desperately to avoid saying that Trump did anything wrong.

Donít get me wrong. I donít think he rigged the investigation. I donít think heís in the bag for Trump. My problem is not with his handling and the conclusions of the investigation.

But his silence has pissed me off mightily in the months since the report was released. His listened to his primary conclusions, the ones that had nothing to do with Trump, get trashed. Heís listened while the Republicans have made Ukraine the villain. Heís listened to the Republican theory that the Manafort case was a hoax. Heís listened as the DOJ has threatened the investigators. Iím sure he was listening today as Trump broadly announced that Christopher Wray called the whole investigation a hoax. Heís been silent throughout the DOJ attempts to indict McCabe and Comey.

Iím sorry, he needs to grow a pair and speak up. I have a slim hope that maybe he will this time. Iím sure it will be dashed, though
Fuck Meuller. It's just as much HIS fault that the orange cumstain won the election. And then he pussed out with his report and "testimony". So fuck him.
  #12277  
Old 02-12-2020, 10:27 AM
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Nobody likes an "I told you so" asshole.
That's why you don't have any friends. You might want to think about it.
Get over it. He (and others) told you so.
  #12278  
Old 02-12-2020, 10:40 AM
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Get over it. He (and others) told you so.
I don't give a shit if he was right or wrong. He's a cock breathed piece of shit. Sure he shook his fucking magic 8 ball and predicted the worst, counting on Trump to follow through. Not a hard gamble to make. I'm sure that at some point in the past 3 years I referred to him as a chicken little.

I admit, he was right (I still think he's over playing it, but whatever). But that doesn't change the fact he's a useless pain in the ass who only screams about gloom and doom and yells at people for not taking action and doing anything about what's happening when all he does is yell at people for not taking action. Definition of hypocritical. He has no ideas or plans on how to stop or change what's happening. He only yells and says other people aren't doing enough.

That shit gets old. Fast.
  #12279  
Old 02-12-2020, 11:55 AM
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Fuck Meuller. It's just as much HIS fault that the orange cumstain won the election. And then he pussed out with his report and "testimony". So fuck him.
Parse that bolded bit for me would you?

TIA

Last edited by kaylasdad99; 02-12-2020 at 11:56 AM.
  #12280  
Old 02-12-2020, 12:32 PM
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James Comey, the former director of the FBI, is typically seen as contributing to Trumps election not Robert Mueller.
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Last edited by Grey; 02-12-2020 at 12:32 PM.
  #12281  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:57 PM
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I don't give a shit if he was right or wrong. He's a cock breathed piece of shit. Sure he shook his fucking magic 8 ball and predicted the worst, counting on Trump to follow through. Not a hard gamble to make. I'm sure that at some point in the past 3 years I referred to him as a chicken little.

I admit, he was right (I still think he's over playing it, but whatever). But that doesn't change the fact he's a useless pain in the ass who only screams about gloom and doom and yells at people for not taking action and doing anything about what's happening when all he does is yell at people for not taking action. Definition of hypocritical. He has no ideas or plans on how to stop or change what's happening. He only yells and says other people aren't doing enough.

That shit gets old. Fast.
We went from "Nobody likes a Chicken Little" to "Nobody likes an I told you so."

Chew on this: I don't give a fuck who you like or don't. If it gets old, then fuck off and stop responding.

And I don't honestly give a shit about "friends." I didn't come to a message board to make any.
  #12282  
Old 02-12-2020, 03:45 PM
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You were right. But, to any asshole who isn't brain dead, it was fucking obvious from the beginning. He asked for Russian help RIGHT OUT IN THE OPEN AND GOT IT. And then soon as he could, he blabbed Israeli secrets to Russia and then sold us out at Helsinki. And that was JUST the beginning.
You are so right. It was obvious from the get-go. AND it has turned out worse than any of us thought possible. What I resented at the time was being told to cool it, give him a chance, don't jump to conclusions, don't get hysterical, you don't know what kind of president he'll be, etc., etc.. And it wasn't just because I started multiple threads.

When I posted a thread about narcissism, it was "you can't diagnose someone without a meeting them in person," and "do you have a Master's Degree in psychology?" (as it happens, I do). No one has to examine him to see what he is, because he expresses everything he is thinking immediately.

So yeah, we're all royally fucked now. Do I expect an award for predicting it? No. I just want to sit down and weep.
  #12283  
Old 02-12-2020, 03:54 PM
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We went from "Nobody likes a Chicken Little" to "Nobody likes an I told you so." {...}
'We' did?

CMC fnord!
  #12284  
Old 02-12-2020, 04:23 PM
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We went from "Nobody likes a Chicken Little" to "Nobody likes an I told you so."
Actually were went from nobody likes you to nobody likes you.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
  #12285  
Old 02-12-2020, 07:14 PM
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Actually were went from nobody likes you to nobody likes you.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
What the fuck is it about SDMB that makes people act like they're in fucking high school?

I think the reason I enjoy being an asshole to some of the people here is the fact that this place operates like a little clique of high (junior) schoolers.

"Well, we don't like you, nyah nyah!"

"I'm putting you on ignore."

"Psst! Guys, put Asahi on ignore!"


Fuckin weak, dude.

Fer fucks suck, let's all cut the crap about "fighting ignorance;" people here are subjective as hell and I (and others) expose that on a regular basis - and I'm not the only one.

And for the record, I don't come here for "friends," I come here because this is a space where I can drone on about politics, about news, about sports, and people can either decide to respond to it, or not.

But smartasses who try get smug and say crap like "Yer crazy, Asahi! I was alive in Nixon's time - you dunno what yer talking about, so just shut the eff up" or "<Eyeroll> I'm looking out my window right now and don't see the Gestapo,lol"...yeah, I admit that I enjoy bringing it up again and rubbing their noses in it.

Last edited by asahi; 02-12-2020 at 07:17 PM.
  #12286  
Old 02-12-2020, 07:53 PM
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Most people post on a public board because they hope others will read what they post. Being an asshole and getting on people's ignore list (actual or mental) is not conducive to getting people to pay attention and consider what you write. I find myself skipping your posts sometimes because you go on rants, and I probably miss stuff you'd like people to see.

Your original posts arguing that we were all fucked and we'd see soon enough were trying a little too hard to be edgy and provocative, but fine for the most part. I have no problem with that (other than the boring repetition). But coming back to gloat serves no purpose other than being a jerk. Sure, you can be a jerk here. But why?

And it's amusing you complain about childish behavior, because "I told you so" is about as childish as you can get. "I don't care if everyone hates my behavior, I'm going to keep being a jerk" is also pretty common on schoolyards, and less common among adults.
  #12287  
Old 02-12-2020, 09:39 PM
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Sure, you can be a jerk here. But why?
Because I can be a jerk here, and more to the point, I can be a jerk to cocky assholes who think it's 'their' board and their little club. In any case, I'm not a jerk to people who aren't a jerk to me first (well, not usually).
  #12288  
Old 02-12-2020, 10:20 PM
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But coming back to gloat serves no purpose other than being a jerk. Sure, you can be a jerk here. But why?
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Because I can be a jerk here...
If I admitted that to myself, I'd be ashamed. Even if I enjoyed rubbing salt in other people's wounds, it would at least be a wake-up call to give it a rest.
  #12289  
Old 02-12-2020, 10:34 PM
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If I admitted that to myself, I'd be ashamed. Even if I enjoyed rubbing salt in other people's wounds, it would at least be a wake-up call to give it a rest.
But why should I be "ashamed" of rubbing salt in someone's wounds (that's not accurate, but I'll play along) when I was on the receiving end of some pretty salty, nasty spirited posting to start with, insinuating that I was somehow crazy or stupid. I obviously couldn't demonstrate my prescience then, so I had to accept the ridicule. But now that I've been proven right I'm back to remind them that they, not I, are the fucking naive, childish ones who don't understand how their government works. I've taken their little civics lessons and shoved it up their asses (well, Trump has, not me, but you get the idea).

See, this is what is wrong with the Dope. People set up a pit in which they encourage people to be nasty, but it's only when the wrong people (the unpopular posters) are nasty that we show faux concern about rubbing salt in other people's wounds.

Look, here's a tip: just shut the fuck up if you don't like what I write. Just shut the fuck up.
  #12290  
Old 02-13-2020, 12:53 AM
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Why do we have the shut the fuck up? If I don't like what you write, I will tell you. That's not a tip, it's you still being childish.
  #12291  
Old 02-13-2020, 02:37 AM
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Do you think this is helping?
Did you think you were helping when you called him a crazy jerk?

Do you think you're helping by calling him out again?

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 02-13-2020 at 02:37 AM.
  #12292  
Old 02-13-2020, 02:40 AM
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If I admitted that to myself, I'd be ashamed. Even if I enjoyed rubbing salt in other people's wounds, it would at least be a wake-up call to give it a rest.
  #12293  
Old 02-13-2020, 11:22 AM
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We went from "Nobody likes a Chicken Little" to "Nobody likes an I told you so."

Chew on this: I don't give a fuck who you like or don't. If it gets old, then fuck off and stop responding.

And I don't honestly give a shit about "friends." I didn't come to a message board to make any.
Well, then well fucking done.

You're still a shrill hypocrite and pretty much useless piece of shit all the way around.
  #12294  
Old 02-13-2020, 12:40 PM
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Parse that bolded bit for me would you?

TIA
I got the two mixed up. COMEY helped get Trump elected. MEULLER, by avoiding any MEANINGFUL testimony in support of his OWN report, and kicking the can over to a corrupt Republican dominated Congress, only helped the fucker stay in office.
  #12295  
Old 02-13-2020, 12:41 PM
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We went from "Nobody likes a Chicken Little" to "Nobody likes an I told you so."

Chew on this: I don't give a fuck who you like or don't. If it gets old, then fuck off and stop responding.

And I don't honestly give a shit about "friends." I didn't come to a message board to make any.
This. Asashi is correct.

Remember the phrase "fuck your feelings" and savor it. It cuts both ways.
  #12296  
Old 02-13-2020, 12:45 PM
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"You're not wrong, Walter."

Asahi,I think most of us here are your natural allies. I've been calling my representatives, going to demonstrations, donating to Democrats, and advocating for my positions among my social circle and online. Many of the rest of us have been too. The great majority of us are fundamentally on your side. You're not merely preaching to the choir here; you're screaming at the choir when their high notes don't shatter glass.
  #12297  
Old 02-13-2020, 02:46 PM
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'We' did?
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Originally Posted by John_Stamos'_Left_Ear View Post
Actually were went from nobody likes you to nobody likes you.
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Originally Posted by digs View Post
If I admitted that to myself, I'd be ashamed. Even if I enjoyed rubbing salt in other people's wounds, it would at least be a wake-up call to give it a rest.
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Well, then well fucking done.

You're still a shrill hypocrite and pretty much useless piece of shit all the way around.
Frankly, it sounds to me that a lot of asahi's detractors are trying to wipe off the egg on their faces while throwing shit into his. Me, I find it hard to condemn him for taking a victory lap. Considering the state of the country, it's must be cold comfort to have been right (or at least on the right track) all this time.
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  #12298  
Old 02-13-2020, 03:22 PM
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No; not even cold comfort. It's no comfort at all. Being the first person to smell smoke doesn't get you a place to sleep after the house burns down.
  #12299  
Old 02-13-2020, 05:00 PM
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Me, I find it hard to condemn him for taking a victory lap.
What has he won, again?
  #12300  
Old 02-13-2020, 08:57 PM
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Frankly, it sounds to me that a lot of asahi's detractors are trying to wipe off the egg on their faces while throwing shit into his. Me, I find it hard to condemn him for taking a victory lap. Considering the state of the country, it's must be cold comfort to have been right (or at least on the right track) all this time.
Not really. I'm horrified.

But my thinking all along - not just here but with people I rant off on in real life - is that before the problem of Trumpism can be fixed, it has to be first understood and appreciated for the danger that it is.

Over and over again, I've found that a lot of the people who voted for Trump don't necessarily like him as a person, but they believe that as long as he's delivering their goods, then his character doesn't matter.

On the progressive side, there has been this arrogant assumption that facts will matter, that if the public can see more facts, they will be persuaded. No, that's how academic, epistemology-driven people see the world, but that's not how a lot of humanity does. A fact is a fact - a fact cannot change. But how people can interpret and perceive facts can change from one person to the next. One set of facts can lead to many "truths."

Facts aren't going to defeat Trumpism. They will simply will not. The only thing that will defeat him is when enough people aren't scared of him, but are fucking infuriated at him - and not just him but the festering pustules Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham and the entire GOP. And that absolutely includes his enablers, from Susan Collins to John Kelly. When the people wake up and the reckoning finally comes, I want absolutely no mother fucking mercy for any of these animals.

And I will dehumanize them - I will dehumanize them because they fucking deserve to be, and if anyone reading this doesn't think that way, then honestly, you can fuck yourself too. We have to get to the point where we are fucking pissed. Where we are uncontrollably outraged. We're past the point of just fixing the rot to our society with a midterm election and a gridlocked government. We are experiencing an all out assault not only on our government, but on our collective senses and our way of life. There - must - be - no - fucking - mercy. None.

As I've said repeatedly, rage is good. This country was founded on it, and if it doesn't find its inner Thomas Jefferson soon, it's going to kiss 2 centuries and change of manifest destiny and self-government goodbye.
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